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Post by cryosferon on Apr 23, 2017 9:49:30 GMT
what is it for you? I personally don't like that - on the one hand - with certain Kits this game has become a mere "farming routine" - even against the KETT: Just make sure you have 1-2 characters that can cloak (ideally "grenade based cloak") and then even KETT uploads are a cakewalk. And with sniper Rifles like the Vanquisher all that can be done in a reasonable amount of time... But woe betide anyone who brings other characters / weapons and then gets upload !! (especially on tight maps against the KETT) There is a big imbalance in this game (surprise! surprise!) - but here I am particularly talking about the imbalance in your chances of either completing the missions successfully and like a robot doing its routine, or finding yourself in the middle of an impossible upload situation. Since damage of powers and combos is laughable, utility abilities especially the ability to CLOAK is vastly OP in this game. You may argue that uploads are doable in a perfectly organized team. And I'd agree. But even those people who regularly manage to organize such a team that then is perfectly organized have got to admit that we are having a huge imbalance here. Don't get me wrong - those moments are great when you coincidentally (fortunately) have a perfectly working team but to be honest, this is a game I want to have fun with and I just can't be bothered in my free time to always find and organize a team - just to make (ultra rare ) weapons and characters viable and to be prepared in case I get the upload objective...
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Post by physiolosopher on Apr 23, 2017 10:22:06 GMT
I can't remember failing on any objective other than upload. Except one time in an apex mission where we had multiple ascendents as assassination targets and PUGs didnt nuke anything. Conversely, I struggle to recall a gold kett upload where I thought, "well that went smoothly".
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Post by TormDK on Apr 23, 2017 10:29:03 GMT
Biggest threat to mission success is the idea in the community that imbalance is a set thing.
You do not need cloak, and you do not need people with vanquishers running around.
You do need people that have their heads on right (Spread out to all objectives, use your damned consumables if you can't handle the heat), however other than that it's not a gameplay mechanic issue.
*EDIT* Ah, I see you changed your wording in your OP, so I'll do the same
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acicm2
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Post by acicm2 on Apr 23, 2017 10:39:31 GMT
the biggest threat? the drunks that play this game drunk.
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Post by tatsumaki on Apr 23, 2017 10:50:16 GMT
I'm with TormDK on this. Biggest variable to whether a mission succeeds or fails depends on the player's willingness to use consumables. You see these wannabe rambo solo at one corner of the map that doesn't use first aid nor medigel. Expects another to run through half the map getting their arses shot up to high hell to revive them.
Hack objectives and bosses are closing in? "Lets just save cobra missiles for ?????? "
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Post by cryosferon on Apr 23, 2017 10:50:47 GMT
Biggest threat to mission success is the idea in the community that imbalance is a set thing. You do not need cloak, and you do not need people with vanquishers running around. You do need people that have their heads on right (Spread out to all objectives, use your damned consumables if you can't handle the heat), however other than that it's not a gameplay mechanic issue. *EDIT* Ah, I see you changed your wording in your OP, so I'll do the same I am not sure if you are serious. First of all, I don't think that "using my damned consumables" would save us in those uploads I mentioned. Second, I said that it's possible with a perfectly organized team but even then there remains a considerable risk to the mission success, whereas 1.) everything else in this game has become a mere farming routine with 100% success rate. Can you imagine anyone failing on (the patched) devices?? 2.) when having the ability to cloak even the dreaded uploads are just a routine work "Imbalance is a set thing"? So you think it's good game design that you play 5 waves like walking in your sleep - but always knowing that if wave 6 will be upload you are probably done for? So what do I do? I bring a character that can cloak. Which turns wave 6 into a sleepwalk, too. great ... "You do need people that have their heads on right"maybe you'll have the kindness and read what I wrote about that in my opening post
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Post by 3y3vr3 on Apr 23, 2017 10:58:33 GMT
IMO the biggest threat is the warping fiends who will ninja sync-kill the whole team...
Other than that I find most of the pug games I played quite smooth. Unless on kett wave 6 upload/assassination no one is willing to use rockets to take down the bosses quickly when it's desperately needed.
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Post by TormDK on Apr 23, 2017 11:14:45 GMT
Biggest threat to mission success is the idea in the community that imbalance is a set thing. You do not need cloak, and you do not need people with vanquishers running around. You do need people that have their heads on right (Spread out to all objectives, use your damned consumables if you can't handle the heat), however other than that it's not a gameplay mechanic issue. *EDIT* Ah, I see you changed your wording in your OP, so I'll do the same I am not sure if you are serious. First of all, I don't think that "using my damned consumables" would save us in those uploads I mentioned. Second, I said that it's possible with a perfectly organized team but even then there remains a considerable risk to the mission success, whereas 1.) everything else in this game has become a mere farming routine with 100% success rate. Can you imagine anyone failing on (the patched) devices?? 2.) when having the ability to cloak even the dreaded uploads are just a routine work "Imbalance is a set thing"? So you think it's good game design that you play 5 waves like walking in your sleep - but always knowing that if wave 6 will be upload you are probably done for? So what do I do? I bring a character that can cloak. Which turns wave 6 into a sleepwalk, too. great ... "You do need people that have their heads on right"maybe you'll have the kindness and read what I wrote about that in my opening post Uploads are fine the way they are. You are not doing a "perfectly organized team" if you think there is a considerable risk to mission success just for getting the upload objective in the first place. Said organized team sounds like it's need a hefty doze of L2P powder to snort. But even PUGs are be able to do fine if they understand that you do not huddle onto one upload point like with the Hack objective. Can cloak help? Sure, it can - is it required for a smooth run? Not by a long shot.
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Post by cwolf18 on Apr 23, 2017 11:56:46 GMT
Imo, the biggest threat to mission success is the game crashing all the time.
Nothing can stop it from happening, you can't outsmart it with teamwork and clever tactics and you can't overpower it with any amount of emergency RPGs.
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Post by palker4 on Apr 23, 2017 12:19:26 GMT
how you even take down the ascendant with rockets? You will just destroy his stupid orb. In ME3 the rockets were I win buttons instantly killing everything now if you shoot a destroyer with rocket it will just take down his shields.
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Post by KLGChaos on Apr 23, 2017 12:36:25 GMT
I can't remember failing on any objective other than upload. Except one time in an apex mission where we had multiple ascendents as assassination targets and PUGs didnt nuke anything. Conversely, I struggle to recall a gold kett upload where I thought, "well that went smoothly". I've failed when we got ascendants as the assassination target like 4 times in a row.
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Post by grim0011 on Apr 23, 2017 12:59:09 GMT
Ok so I'm just gonna throw in my two cents. IF upload wasn't so bad nobody would be complaining about it not that that logic isn't 100% true cause I will admit people like to complain but this imo is an exception and it definitely is noticed by a majority of the player base that unless your team is either.
1) Coordinated to where you can have 1 or 2 players do the capturing while the other two or three distract and pull the agro away from the upload points along with maybe the Cloak ability as a bonus get-the-f***-away from me strategy. or... 2) Your all capturing all the points at the same time because each of you has enough individual firepower to hold them off AND as an optional plan B with the combined understanding that if something bigger than a mook so much as breaths in your circles direction you nuke the f**ker.
OTHERWISE you have maybe one or two people with the understanding that your firepower is definitely not enough so you resort to strategy 1) but the other two obviously don't get it and are doing strategy 2) minus plan B... and they are only trying strategy 2) because its all they know... attempt the objective, and shoot stuff is the extent of their knowledge. Not that I blame them entirely... unless they are ignoring me entirely when I'm on the mic trying to inform them... as a side opinion we shouldn't have to have a cloak in gold to be able to complete it or to make it a cakewalk. Every class should be just as viable but not broken like the cloak ability. Until then, im sticking with my infiltrators if i get the impression my teams lacking :\
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Post by cryosferon on Apr 23, 2017 12:59:11 GMT
I am not sure if you are serious. First of all, I don't think that "using my damned consumables" would save us in those uploads I mentioned. Second, I said that it's possible with a perfectly organized team but even then there remains a considerable risk to the mission success, whereas 1.) everything else in this game has become a mere farming routine with 100% success rate. Can you imagine anyone failing on (the patched) devices?? 2.) when having the ability to cloak even the dreaded uploads are just a routine work "Imbalance is a set thing"? So you think it's good game design that you play 5 waves like walking in your sleep - but always knowing that if wave 6 will be upload you are probably done for? So what do I do? I bring a character that can cloak. Which turns wave 6 into a sleepwalk, too. great ... "You do need people that have their heads on right"maybe you'll have the kindness and read what I wrote about that in my opening post Uploads are fine the way they are. You are not doing a "perfectly organized team" if you think there is a considerable risk to mission success just for getting the upload objective in the first place. Said organized team sounds like it's need a hefty doze of L2P powder to snort. But even PUGs are be able to do fine if they understand that you do not huddle onto one upload point like with the Hack objective. Can cloak help? Sure, it can - is it required for a smooth run? Not by a long shot. you are a very very good player. And as if this wasn't enough: all the PUGs that play with you suddenly become very very good, as well.
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Post by jarilkelteel on Apr 23, 2017 13:28:23 GMT
Imo, the biggest threat to mission success is the game crashing all the time. Nothing can stop it from happening, you can't outsmart it with teamwork and clever tactics and you can't overpower it with any amount of emergency RPGs. QFT
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Post by TormDK on Apr 23, 2017 13:33:30 GMT
you are a very very good player. And as if this wasn't enough: all the PUGs that play with you suddenly become very very good, as well. Nah, I'm average at best. I'm just saying it is fine as it is, as are Kett. Yes, they require more coordination on the players part in some situations (like wave 6 upload), but that doesn't make them a special problem. Hosts with poor connections gets more people killed than Kett do. If anything, the two other factions needs a buff.
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Post by xaijin on Apr 23, 2017 13:47:32 GMT
1. Technical bullshit
2. Lack of balance touted as 'asymmetrical balance'
3. Balance model on actual monetization incentivization
4. coordination issues, lack of player attention.
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Post by wnieves1 on Apr 23, 2017 13:51:36 GMT
you are a very very good player. And as if this wasn't enough: all the PUGs that play with you suddenly become very very good, as well. Nah, I'm average at best. I'm just saying it is fine as it is, as are Kett. Yes, they require more coordination on the players part in some situations (like wave 6 upload), but that doesn't make them a special problem. Hosts with poor connections gets more people killed than Kett do. If anything, the two other factions needs a buff. I sense sarcasm and not a compliment...😃
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Post by tatsumaki on Apr 23, 2017 13:55:17 GMT
Here is another example. Lets move away from the Kett for now. Assassination Wave 6. Target is a Hydra. Now if your kit is anti mooks like Kineticist, to certain extent KroGlad, Asari Adept what do you? Just rocket it once and clean up? More often than not you'll find some jokers trying to shoot it down with tickle sticks. Come on, certain kits can do it e.g. the weapons platform + turbo charged ones. So its more valuable to save that one cobra and waste time trying to take down a boss unit whilst increasingly becoming risky as more and more mobs swarm in? I wonder if their cobra missiles are made of solid gold Then you transpose this to fighting the Kett. Whether its Assassination or upload. If upload and you see boss units approaching (assuming you aren't solo uploading) just nuke it? profit???? so what if you have to use three rockets for ascendant orb + health. Isn't it better to remove that huge threat ASAP? (applies to fiends as well)
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Post by xaijin on Apr 23, 2017 14:02:44 GMT
If you're a kineticist, you're not a good kit to begin with, you're a squarely enh kit with a gimmick derived from a bullet point on a kit chart somewhere while your design lead talks about incentivized skinner box returns and that bonus check everyone is gonna get this holiday.
If you're the other two and you can't beat up a hydra, you are still learning how to play the game, or you're just plain bad at the game, because one of those kits can nuke a hydra in about 6 seconds provided gimmick bait is laying around, and since it's Outlaws, there is gimmick bait lying around, so you grab a gimmick and then you hit the hydra with your hammer while hitting the gimmick and voila hydra is dead, and as for asari adept, it's just matter of not getting grabbed while completely wrecking the hydra with minimum effort.
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Post by TormDK on Apr 23, 2017 14:12:28 GMT
Nah, I'm average at best. I'm just saying it is fine as it is, as are Kett. Yes, they require more coordination on the players part in some situations (like wave 6 upload), but that doesn't make them a special problem. Hosts with poor connections gets more people killed than Kett do. If anything, the two other factions needs a buff. I sense sarcasm and not a compliment...😃 Hence why I responded like I did. No need to take the bait. He obviously has his opinion and experiences, and thats fine - it's just not something we should be up in arms about because it spreads the wrong idea across the community at large.
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Post by capn233 on Apr 23, 2017 15:06:29 GMT
Rubber Banding is serious business.
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Post by pitka17 on Apr 23, 2017 15:59:46 GMT
The biggest threat to mission success is how many ascendants you get in a row as kill targets.
Character imbalance isn't that bad in MEA, there are duds (remember the turian saboteur? female quarian engineer? - clearly not powerhouse plat characters in ME3), but there are many gold ready kits. It's always been good to have one cloaker whose will to revive and hit devices.
In terms of weapon balance, that just needs to be fixed. So tired of vanquishing! Having rare weapons at X and the damage barrels also at X will help make more weapons capable of single clipping the weaker targets on gold.
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Post by book on Apr 23, 2017 17:53:32 GMT
While I agree with certain points, OP - there are vastly more options then cloak / vanquisher.
Turian soldier with Revnant + AR gear and maybe just an AR amp (you know you have a load of those stashed up) rips stuff apart.
Turian Havoc hover build with Revnant, Piranah or Hurricane also completely melts everything.
Human Sentinel can work with Piranah and Raptor just fine. Hurricane is also a fine option.
Asari Adept and Human Adept makes a fine team. AA primes everything and HA explodes everything with shockwave. Equip some biotic boosters and while each explosion doesnt do a lot, it adds up when a group of 4 mobs all explode on each other.
Asari Huntress, while a utility class like you said, can still work fine without a Vanq. Piranah, raptor or Hurricane again.
Those are my most played ones. I stopped using Vanquisher all together because I was getting bored of the game.
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Post by physiolosopher on Apr 24, 2017 7:28:37 GMT
Great. We solved uploads. Now someone just needs to inform every PUG. The biggest threat to mission success is how many ascendants you get in a row as kill targets. Character imbalance isn't that bad in MEA, there are duds (remember the turian saboteur? female quarian engineer? - clearly not powerhouse plat characters in ME3), but there are many gold ready kits. It's always been good to have one cloaker whose will to revive and hit devices. In terms of weapon balance, that just needs to be fixed. So tired of vanquishing! Having rare weapons at X and the damage barrels also at X will help make more weapons capable of single clipping the weaker targets on gold. Buuuhhhhh.....wat? Do you even? I can't even...
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Post by squaredgonzo on Apr 24, 2017 9:25:56 GMT
Biggest for me is the 74 crashes I get on gold extractions. I'm not good with Math but they owe me a couple of packs
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