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Post by miso9 on Apr 4, 2017 15:32:41 GMT
That's because it's all reused assets from straight male romances. The only "lesbian" sex scene is straight sex scene with Peebee with switched protagonist's model. The only "lesbian" character is reused asset from straight romance created for Scott. I t This is scraps. Theyni made 6 romances for straight men so it cost them nothing to just reuse some of them. Absolutely no content has been created with lesbians in mind, the team didn't bother at all about the idea of providing lesbians any representation or doing any 'extra' work for lesbian players like they did for straight people and yes, even gay men. They intended into s touch with Gil' storyline the idea of gay (male) parenting. Lesbians meanwhile are complete afterthought. Lol on attention for gay men. Personally I think they wrote that horrible gay parenting storyline for themselves to be first to market in hopes of getting media praise than gay men, who have no squad mates and two short options with little content. I'd happily trade Gil for a plethora of bi guys and a poorly animated sex scene that isn't fade to black. I don't think it's condemning that Sufi doesn't run around talking abut being a lesbian. I don't talk about my sexuality at work or in my private life unless the topic comes up. If your able to get romance scenes she's clearly a lesbian. -.- I know lesbians irl that I met through work that I didn't know were lesbians for years. I mentioned it only within the context of representation and actual work put into content provided to players of various sexualities. I agree that Gil's storyline is just extremely cliche and short, it's not like these devs actually cared about it like they cared about their straight characters. Still, there is a character written as a gay man with a storyline meant to touch real life issues affecting gay men. Meanwhile there is no lesbian character in this game, the whole reason Suvi doesn't talk about being a lesbian is because she wasn't designed as one.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 4, 2017 14:31:31 GMT
So what? Be happy with scraps, be happy as an after thought. Be happy that they realised uh-oh we forgot to write a lesbian. Tell me more how I should feel as a lesbian, you clearly know what you're talking about. Quite fast to throw the gays under the bus you are, since you got what you wanted in this game. Oh dear, I should just be happy, thanks. Don't even start with the having scraps nonsense. Lesbian players have the second most LIs in the game, just one short of straight males. If that is "scraps", then you'll never be satisfied since I fear what you consider enough. That's because it's all reused assets from straight male romances. The only "lesbian" sex scene is straight sex scene with Peebee with switched protagonist's model. The only "lesbian" character is reused asset from straight romance created for Scott. This is scraps. They made 6 romances for straight men so it cost them nothing to just reuse some of them. Absolutely no content has been created with lesbians in mind, the team didn't bother at all about the idea of providing lesbians any representation or doing any 'extra' work for lesbian players like they did for straight people and yes, even gay men. They intended to touch with Gil's storyline the idea of gay (male) parenting. Lesbians meanwhile are complete afterthought.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 4, 2017 14:17:35 GMT
She was intended as a bisexual first and foremost. Lesbians and bisexuals are not the same thing. Sera was written as a lesbian and it clearly shows. Like Scott didn't have enough options to choose from, this team is gross. So what? They changed their minds and made her a lesbian. That almost never happens when it comes to a bi romance that has the bi part scrapped. Instead of making her straight, they made her a lesbian. Thus she is legit representation. I remember when you praised the ground Sheryl Chee walked on. Sorry but that's just ridiculous. This change didn't occur on some early stage of development. It happened within last few months when her whole character arc has been already completed. None of her content was created with the intention to provide lesbians any representation, and thus nothing about her implicates she even likes women. She's been simply locked for women at the last minute. It would be different thing if she was rewritten as a lesbian, but nothing like that occured. Her writer didn't write her as a gay woman and there's no content to imply so. So she's not any more a lesbian character than Morrigan made romanceable by women by using a mod.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 3, 2017 20:59:26 GMT
Hey guys, looking for community feedback on the situation for review materials. Please keep it constructive however. What'd you think of the situation with the m/m romances, and all the romance options as a whole? There's not much to add to everything that has already been said about M/M romances, so from my side I wanted to ask you to take notice of the Suvi situation as well. I mentioned it above but in short, Prima Guide's walkthrough for Suvi's romance shows pictures of her with male Ryder. Since those guides are written some time ahead and are based on earlier build, it indicates Suvi was designed as romance option for straight male Ryder, and just few months before release it got changed. To be honest, from the start I noticed there was something weird about Suvi because as the only "exclusive" romance option she never makes the player know what her sexuality is, while Gil, Cora and Liam tell you right away that they like only men/women. When Scott tries to flirt with her her reponse is just some vague "I prefer to keep it professional". Now it's known why. I wrote more on Suvi's thread and Romance thread: bsn.boards.net/post/492652/threadbsn.boards.net/post/493105/threadIt bothers me a lot because it makes me feel like lesbian players were an afterthought to this team. There was supposed to be no lesbian character in entire game. And to be honest, it doesn't make me feel any better that it's been "fixed" by locking one of numerous straight male romances to female protagonists only. Representation is important to me. As it is, Suvi provides no representation and is not even really a lesbian character, not any more than Morrigan made romanceable by women via mod.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 3, 2017 11:34:03 GMT
I mean, in the end, in every bigger multi-task project, it's all about what you make your priority. The Mass Effect team didn't care about the M/M romances as much as they cared about the other romances, it's pretty much as simple as that. (...) M/M romances were plainly the part of the project that was least important. I wanted to talk about one thing that bothers me in this common sentiment - implication that lesbian romances were somehow cared about, on par with straight ones. If you took a closer look you would notice all F/F romances in this game are just a mere copypaste of romances created for straight men. The only "lesbian" sex scene, with Peebee, is just a straight sex scene with switched Ryder's model, which looks just ridiculous. And the best part - the only lesbian character and exclusively lesbian romance option was not meant to be lesbian, she was written as another conquest for straight male Ryder and only within last few months has been artificially locked for women, hence Prima guide still shows pics of her in romance with male Ryder. Say what you want about Gil, but he was obviously designed as gay from the start and was meant to provide representation, even if those devs' idea of representation is extreme cliche. Meanwhile originally there wasn't supposed to be ANY lesbian character in entire game. And even now, it is questionable if the only "lesbian" is any lesbian at all since unlike Gil you wouldn't even know she's supposed to be gay, she never gives any hints she likes women which makes sense - she was created for straight men. Lesbians are benefiting from one thing. This team initially created 6 romances (4 full, 2 flings) for straight men. Apparently originally lesbians were meant to get bisexual Peebee (she's Asari so by default bisexual) and bisexual Suvi, assuming she wasn't fully straight. Perhaps that one fling with reporter too (again, she's Asari, they would have no excuse for making her M/F only). No lesbian character at all. There are reports that Vetra's writer fought to make her available to women and only thanks to her Vetra is bisexual too. And only within last few months someone noticed that it would look bad if Scott could bang all the women, so out of all romances made for straight men they decided to lock the one with the least content just for women. Notice that they didn't do any extra work with any of those F/F romances. They are all just reused assets in every sense (writing, scene design, animations) made for straight men, to such extreme level that they just reused straight sex scene and didn't care it looks ridiculous. No content made with just lesbians in mind. Even the "lesbian" character is just reused asset created for straight men.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 17:50:37 GMT
The whole thing about '' you need to do research to write LGBT characters '' is that take Jaal or Cora, and make them gay, and poof, you got two amazing LGBT characters. No research needed to be done, just two well written characters who happen to be gay. That's it. It's hilarious to me that bioware's mantra of "character sexuality has to make sense!!" just got completely overlooked w/ Cora.Like, girl spent years with asari, and has hair so gay that the straight boys will complain about it for years. What went wrong??Umm, I have even better example. In case you didn't follow this thread, there's evidence Suvi was not written as a lesbian but as another conquest for straight male Ryder, and just locked for f/f only few months ago max.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 17:34:48 GMT
We are over due for a gay man whose sexuality does not factor into his story line, not even a little bit. Unfortunately they can't please everyone though. I feel this way completely but I've seen others insist they want outright gay characters with 'gay' stories. We're a small percentage of the population. I don't mind if we aren't shoehorned in as Very Special Characters. That's the thing that struck me most about it: That they seemed to feel the need to write it as some big part of the character's story if they aren't straight. It's unintentionally condescending to me, even if it's something some people want. I don't mind it occasionally, but when they seem to think it has to be that way for any character to be anything but straight... Well, for gay women it's the opposite - it's never part of the story, even in a small way. Suvi being the latest example - she wasn't even intended to be a lesbian!
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 17:29:06 GMT
And you're not a good writer if you try to write about minorities without doing any research on them. And what's exactly wrong with Sera on a level of her person? What kind of research should've been done and why should this research affect her in any way? I mean, I personally wouldn't like if her story with Lady Taraline had issues about her being lesbian and trying to convert her via cookie magic and not just being a well-told story about her childhood. And Sera is a believable character, imo. She stands for her opinion, she's pretty "alive". Or are you saying Sera somehow doesn't fit into "lesbian" standards? I kinda always thought that orientation doesn't affect person's character. At least in real life, because in Bioware games it quite often does with gays.My English language skills are limited but recently I've come across interview with singer Hayley Kiyoko and this is basically how I look at this: " I’ve never truly believed that sexuality defines who you are. I do believe, though, that sexuality helps shape and build who you become. How you act, what you pursue, who you surround yourself with". And that's true. Sera was clearly written by a straight person who didn't understand it, and in the end could just as well be straight character with only a small change of few dialogues.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 17:01:53 GMT
I am glad Lukas wrote her. He writes characters you feel strongly about, whether its love or hate. I like that. And you can't hire gay writers just because, you gotta hire the best writers, which is something Bioware used to do. If you are a talented writer, you should be able to write any character with any orientation. You may have to do research, but I see no issue with it. They need to reach out to the DA team, they overall did a good job. And you're not a good writer if you try to write about minorities without doing any research on them.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 16:56:28 GMT
I agree it had nothing to do with her being a lesbian because that aspect apparently didn't even cross the writers' minds. I remember what Lukas was writing on old forum and it showed he knew absolutely nothing about lesbians and didn't want to learn anything anyway. Sera was meant to be a cool (in her writer's opinion) character that is so unique and strong character because she's so divisive. She was a lesbian because someone had to be and there was only one other possible candidate, but Vivienne was too important so it had to be her. And I wouldn't make such a fuss about it if not the huge hypocrisy. I remember that Gaider gave a speech on representation on one panel, stressing out how important it is to represent minorities with respect, and to take their voices into consideration. And say what you want about Dorian but he was clearly written with respect, and the enjoynment of gay male players was important to Gaider. And then he proudly, even if accidentally, admits they didn't care at all about lesbian players and didn't bother to think at all about any lesbian representation. I think Sera is better representation than Dorian, by a miles worth. OK but that's not the issue. Opinions vary. I tried to explain that what is really bothering me here is the confirmation from the writers (or at least from Gaider, but he spoke on whole team's behalf) that they didn't really care about any representation while designing Sera, and we know that they did care when designing characters from other minorities. If they botched the job that's one thing, but at least they tried.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 16:39:22 GMT
OK, so you're among that 50% of the people that liked or at least didn't mind her. But it's a real problem when writers don't even find any issue in admitting that they intentionally made the only lesbian character and lesbian romance option to be the most hated by the players. Because it shows that lesbian representation and the concerns about the fun of lesbian players never even crossed their minds when they were designing her. She is written as a person first, one that many won't warm too. It's not a problem, it's more of an issue with her personality you seem to have. She isn't bad rep for lesbians. The lead writer admitted they intentionally made her to be hated by 50% of the players. The only lesbian character and one of just two options lesbian players had. It doesn't need any further commentary.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 16:32:10 GMT
OK, so you're among that 50% of the people that liked or at least didn't mind her. But it's a real problem when writers don't even find any issue in admitting that they intentionally made the only lesbian character and lesbian romance option to be the most hated by the players. Because it shows that lesbian representation and the concerns about the fun of lesbian players never even crossed their minds when they were designing her. I think you are completely overreacting. She was meant to be divisive, a force that pushes against the Inquisitor if the Inquisitor doesn't do as she likes, further proving that the Inquisitors decisions HAVE consequences. Her divisiveness has nothing to do with her being a lesbian. I'd LOVE if the next gay male LI was as divisive as Sera, I'm tired of gay male characters that tiptoe around the PC and become their best goddamn friend. I agree it had nothing to do with her being a lesbian because that aspect apparently didn't even cross the writers' minds. I remember what Lukas was writing on old forum and it showed he knew absolutely nothing about lesbians and didn't want to learn anything anyway. Sera was meant to be a cool (in her writer's opinion) character that is so unique and strong character because she's so divisive. She was a lesbian because someone had to be and there was only one other possible candidate, but Vivienne was too important so it had to be her. And I wouldn't make such a fuss about it if not the huge hypocrisy. I remember that Gaider gave a speech on representation on one panel, stressing out how important it is to represent minorities with respect, and to take their voices into consideration. And say what you want about Dorian but he was clearly written with respect, and the enjoynment of gay male players was important to Gaider. And then he proudly, even if accidentally, admits they didn't care at all about lesbian players and didn't bother to think at all about any lesbian representation.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 16:02:51 GMT
Well, obviously MEA is worse in every way - lesbian character in DAI at least was meant to be a lesbian - but it's not like DAI was very good when it comes to f/f. When the lead writer proudly admits on his Tumblr that the writing team intentionally designed the only lesbian character to be hated by 50% of the players, there is a problem. Sera was never an agreeable girl. Meh, I liked Sera, won't lose any sleep if she happened to rustle so many jimmies. Popularity contests, don't care for em. The thing I liked about Sera is her sexuality isn't the focal point of her character, she is written as a person first who just happens to be a lesbian, as it should be. I'd rather a dozen more Seras than a tired cliche gay LI. OK, so you're among that 50% of the people that liked or at least didn't mind her. But it's a real problem when writers don't even find any issue in admitting that they intentionally made the only lesbian character and lesbian romance option to be the most hated by the players. Because it shows that lesbian representation and the concerns about the fun of lesbian players never even crossed their minds when they were designing her.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 15:39:06 GMT
To be fair, lesbians have it worst in DA:I when it comes to story relevant LIs. Sera is fun and good, and definitely an interesting romance, but she ain't all that '' important. '' Straight women have, well, Solas... Straight men have Cassandra. Gay men have Dorian. But I mean you get to marry Sera so that's something at least lol. Lesbians were able to marry Sera and had "happy life with Josephine" in the epilogue picture while Dorian and Bull always try to run away as far as they can, so, eh, that's a discussable matter. Sorry but to me that marriage came off as just a half-assed pandering that made it look like the "lesbian content" is its own thing unrelated to the "real" course of the game. Since when there were same-sex marriages in Thedas? Even Codex only mentioned that the most tolerant Orlesians consider it to be a "quirk of character". Not to mention that city elf from DAO was forced to marry opposite sex partner and couldn't say anything about wanting same-sex one.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 15:29:38 GMT
I liked Sera, but she was not suited to be an LI at all. Inky didn't joke the way she did, too many differences between them. It simply didn't click. Josephine was this kind of Disney Princess... I hated that. She was ok to be an advisor but I also didn't care about her so if she died during attack on Heaven, I wouldn't miss her at all. That's just personal taste though. Sera's my favorite f/f LI to date and m/f players also got the "Disney princess" romance with Josephine. DAI didn't slight f/f players at all. It's nothing like the development clusterfuck tht is ME's same-sex romances. Well, obviously MEA is worse in every way - lesbian character in DAI at least was meant to be a lesbian - but it's not like DAI was very good when it comes to f/f. When the lead writer proudly admits on his Tumblr that the writing team intentionally designed the only lesbian character to be hated by 50% of the players, there is a problem. Meanwhile Josephine was another example of "made for straight men, copypasted on women even if it doesn't make any sense". And of course she expressed only interest in men when unromanced.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 14:46:28 GMT
I recall that print version in the same section also shows that she's only romanceable by women since there were pics of exactly those pages on this thread before, but that poster seemed to talk about different segment. I'll quote her:
nova: So, I was browsing the Prima guide...and in the walkthrough for Suvi's final romantic relationship quest, they've got photos of Scott in the scene with her instead of Sara. Ugh. thelastsupersaiyan87: You still get the quest as Scott you just don't get the romance content nova: That's not how the walkthrough reads at all. "Continue to choose passionate replies to take the interaction into more intimate territory, until you receive a Kiss prompt and the conversation option to be exclusive with her." <Insert photo of Scott here> EDIT: Looking at it more closely, the photo with Scott even has the "Kiss" action prompt in it in the corner. So yeah....
Yes, there it is. Btw, I've found a legit explanation of facial animations... Look.Sorry not sorry.One more question. On one other forum some people insist it's fake because they don't have it in their Prima guides. Are there different versions? EDIT: they apparently looked at that simplified romance chart and thought that's all.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 13:36:29 GMT
No, locking characters this way is never a good idea and we have a proof with MEA here. If all of the squadmates were playersexual, it would've been so much better. They always screw up one side. DAI - f/f. MEA - m/m. As time goes by, more and more I think that the DA2 system was better. Well, for most part it only meant highlighting opposite-sex side of those characters (Merrill only expressed straight attractions, while unromanced Isabela and Fenris ended up together), but it was better that the disgusting hypocrisy we've been served now. The point of making characters with different orientations was to make them more unique. Except in reality it means less options, extremely cliche storylines for gay men, and "lesbians" being just lesser quality by-products from all the conquests designed for straight men.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 12:54:44 GMT
In addition to really small amount of options for gay men, it's been confirmed that the only lesbian character in the whole game, Suvi, was never designed to be lesbian. Prima Guide's walkthrough of her romance shows screenshots of her with male Ryder (pic below with obvious minor spoiler about how her final romantic interaction looks like). Those guides are written some time ahead based on earlier builds, so it confirms that Suvi was meant to be another romance option of male Ryder and Bioware didn't plan to have ANY lesbian character in entire game. It seems that at the last minute someone decided to lock her just for women but it doesn't fix this issue. I always wondered why Liam, Cora and Gil are open about their sexuality - you get to know right away that they like men/women - while the only supposedly lesbian character never gives any hints at all that she likes women, even when a man hits on her. Now I know why - because she was never written to be a lesbian, but as just another conquest for Scott Ryder.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 12:37:18 GMT
So in case anyone missed the discussion on Romance thread, the above has been confirmed, Suvi really wasn't written as a lesbian and was meant to be just another conquest of straight male Ryder: i.gyazo.com/b35d7e3b4da02f03141532b017aba5c3.png
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miso9
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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March 2017
miso9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 10:59:23 GMT
So you aren't going to provide a link? 2015-2016 cable: 2015-2016 broadcast:Lesbian -- 22% ( 31 characters) Lesbian -- 33% (23 characters)Gay male -- 41% (58 characters) Gay male -- 47% (33 characters) Bisexual female -- 23% (32 characters) Bisexual female -- 17% (12 characters)Bisexual male -- 13% (18 characters) Bisexual male -- 3% (2 characters)Transgender female -- 1% (2 characters) Transgender male -- 1% (1 character 2016-2017 cable: 2016-2017 broadcast: LESBIAN -- 20% ( 29 CHARACTERS) LESBIAN -- 17% ( 12 CHARACTERS) GAY MALE -- 46% (65 CHARACTERS)* GAY MALE -- 49% (35 CHARACTERS)BISEXUAL FEMALE -- 25% (35 CHARACTERS) BISEXUAL FEMALE -- 23% (16 CHARACTERS)BISEXUAL MALE -- 7% (10 CHARACTERS) BISEXUAL MALE -- 7% (5 CHARACTERS) TRANSGENDER FEMALE -- 1% (2 CHARACTERS) TRANSGENDER -- 4% (3 CHARACTERS)TRANSGENDER MALE -- 3% (4 CHARACTERS)* www.glaad.org/whereweareontv15www.glaad.org/whereweareontv16I see now that the latest report actually mentions small increase in overall numbers of LGBT characters, but it's not about lesbians - as those numbers show there's less lesbian characters, and it's the most significantly pronounced on broadcast TV, drop by 50%.
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miso9
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March 2017
miso9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 10:42:52 GMT
No, the overall number of LGBT characters is stable, showrunners are just using more bisexual female characters in lesbian place, since as of last season the number of bisexual women and lesbians was more or less even but now bisexual female characters outnumber lesbians almost 2:1. Such huge drop is certainly connected to Dead Lesbian Syndrome trope that plagued television last season. Within few months some networks like CW killed the overwhelming majority of lesbian characters in their shows. What kind of shows do they use for this statistic? Just asking since judging from the shows I watch the numbers have increased, not decreased. Check out GLAAD reports. They separately count broadcast networks and cable networks, but the trend for both is the same (with small difference that cable has a bit more bisexual male characters).
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miso9
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
Posts: 84 Likes: 159
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March 2017
miso9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 10:26:36 GMT
Wouldn't that drop in percentage just mean that there are more people of the various aspects of LGBT+ that are being represented? For example if there were only three being represented, and then later five the first three would see a decrease in percentage from 33% to 20% even though the numbers are the same or even growing. It has nothing to do with erasure. I'm pretty sure the proportion of gay male representation has been increasing in terms of TV though, as well as bi female. Gay male representation according to GLAAD reports is stable 45%-50%. It's bisexual men that have very little visibility (about 8%), so it's the opposite of female representation.
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miso9
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
Posts: 84 Likes: 159
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March 2017
miso9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 10:24:21 GMT
And I'm upset about both those things. Suvi was not meant to be a lesbian which means there's no gay female character by design in the whole game. All our options and design choices like the only "lesbian" sex scene with Peebee were made for straight men, we're just an afterthought. If we are OK with it it will end like representation on TV - erasure of lesbian characters (per GLAAD reports, among entire LGBT representation on TV lesbian representation dropped from 30% to 17%). Bioware already did the first step, they didn't plan any lesbian character in entire game and changed mind at the last minute, if simple 'locking' Suvi just for women even counts as any "lesbian representation". Wouldn't that drop in number just mean that there are more people of the various aspects of LGBT+ that are being represented? For example if there were only three being represented, and then later five the first three would see a decrease in percentage from 33% to 20% even though the numbers are the same or even growing. No, the overall number of LGBT characters is stable, showrunners are just using more bisexual female characters in lesbian place, since as of last season the number of bisexual women and lesbians was more or less even but now bisexual female characters outnumber lesbians almost 2:1 (EDIT: after checking out the report again I must correct this information, I thought that the proportion was 17% of lesbians vs 30% of bisexual women but it's actually 25% of bisexual women so it's not that pronounced, but it's true that all LGBT minority groups EXCEPT lesbians and bisexual men got their representation increased - lesbians and bi men dropped significantly). Such huge drop is certainly connected to Dead Lesbian Syndrome trope that plagued television last season. Within few months some networks like CW killed the overwhelming majority of lesbian characters in their shows.
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miso9
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
Posts: 84 Likes: 159
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Mar 16, 2017 16:00:10 GMT
March 2017
miso9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 10:11:21 GMT
I might be alone in this, but I'm actually pretty satisfied with the f/f options in ME:A other than wishing they all had a sex scene. It's the m/m situation that I'm personally upset about. And I'm upset about both those things. Suvi was not meant to be a lesbian which means there's no gay female character by design in the whole game. All our options and design choices like the only "lesbian" sex scene with Peebee were made for straight men, we're just an afterthought. If we are OK with it it will end like representation on TV - erasure of lesbian characters (per GLAAD reports, among entire LGBT representation on TV lesbian representation dropped from 30% to 17%). Bioware already did the first step, they didn't plan any lesbian character in entire game and changed mind at the last minute, if simple 'locking' Suvi just for women even counts as any "lesbian representation".
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miso9
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
Posts: 84 Likes: 159
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miso9
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Mar 16, 2017 16:00:10 GMT
March 2017
miso9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by miso9 on Apr 2, 2017 1:44:10 GMT
I recall that print version in the same section also shows that she's only romanceable by women since there were pics of exactly those pages on this thread before, but that poster seemed to talk about different segment. I'll quote her:
nova: So, I was browsing the Prima guide...and in the walkthrough for Suvi's final romantic relationship quest, they've got photos of Scott in the scene with her instead of Sara. Ugh. thelastsupersaiyan87: You still get the quest as Scott you just don't get the romance content nova: That's not how the walkthrough reads at all. "Continue to choose passionate replies to take the interaction into more intimate territory, until you receive a Kiss prompt and the conversation option to be exclusive with her." <Insert photo of Scott here> EDIT: Looking at it more closely, the photo with Scott even has the "Kiss" action prompt in it in the corner. So yeah....
Yes, there it is. Btw, I've found a legit explanation of facial animations... Look.Sorry not sorry.Thank you for that. So it confirms that Suvi wasn't even written as a lesbian since judging from what I've read about those guides those screens are from some earlier build where she was still romanceable by male Ryder. Apparently later they got the memo that she's locked for female players in final build so they changed the info in the guide, but obviously couldn't do anything about already saved screenshots. It just looks shittier and shittier when it comes to the treatment of minorities. It means that originally they didn't plan ANY lesbian character in the game. And spent time making SIX romance options for straight men. I don't think if Suvi even counts as a lesbian character anymore. She never gives ANY hints she's a lesbian and now we know why -- because she was intended to be yet another conquest for straight male Ryder, but at the last minute someone realized how would it look if Scott could bang all the women, so they chose to artificially lock for female players one option of straight male Ryder that had the least content. Evidently we're just an afterthought to Bioware.
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