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Post by vanth on May 9, 2017 17:43:44 GMT
Are the romances in ME:A necessary? By that, I am not asking if we are forced into them. I mean, do you feel they are necessary to enjoy the game? Would you enjoy a playthrough where you didn't romance anyone?
I am a huge Mass Effect fan. ME2 is probably my favourite game (well, at least top 3) but I am really struggling to like ME:A. It has been out a while now and I have been slogging my way through it, but I am not sure I have the will to go on. It is just so dull and I feel no empathy for any of the characters. (I don't mind the poor animations actually.) I felt the same way about Dragon Age: Inquisistion, even though I loved the first two DA games (yes, I was the only lonely fan of DA2). Again, I felt no empathy for the DA:I characters.
I have been thinking about why that is, and I am now wondering if it is because I don't do romances. I find them icky and awkward and I don't like the sort of rapey nature of sex with someone you have been placed in a position of authority over. I didn't do them in the other games either, so didn't think this would be a problem. However, I am wondering if, in DA:I and ME:A, Bioware have made a concious decision to put the character development of NPCs into their romance arcs. Is this true do you think?
It certainly wasn't true in ME2 for example - my relationship with Mordin was definitely not romantic, but he had a great fleshed out character with an amazing story arc. But times change, and maybe we are all expected to do the romances now?
If that is true, it is a shame. I didn't buy any of the DA:I expansions and I can't see myself wanting to continue with ME:A. I think I may be playing my last Bioware game...
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 17:51:17 GMT
Are the romances in ME:A necessary? By that, I am not asking if we are forced into them. I mean, do you feel they are necessary to enjoy the game? Would you enjoy a playthrough where you didn't romance anyone? I am a huge Mass Effect fan. ME2 is probably my favourite game (well, at least top 3) but I am really struggling to like ME:A. It has been out a while now and I have been slogging my way through it, but I am not sure I have the will to go on. It is just so dull and I feel no empathy for any of the characters. (I don't mind the poor animations actually.) I felt the same way about Dragon Age: Inquisistion, even though I loved the first two DA games (yes, I was the only lonely fan of DA2). Again, I felt no empathy for the DA:I characters. I have been thinking about why that is, and I am now wondering if it is because I don't do romances. I find them icky and awkward and I don't like the sort of rapey nature of sex with someone you have been placed in a position of authority over. I didn't do them in the other games either, so didn't think this would be a problem. However, I am wondering if, in DA:I and ME:A, Bioware have made a concious decision to put the character development of NPCs into their romance arcs. Is this true do you think? It certainly wasn't true in ME2 for example - my relationship with Mordin was definitely not romantic, but he had a great fleshed out character with an amazing story arc. But times change, and maybe we are all expected to do the romances now? If that is true, it is a shame. I didn't buy any of the DA:I expansions and I can't see myself wanting to continue with ME:A. I think I may be playing my last Bioware game... In regards to romances in ME:A it felt to me that BioWARE listened to the critique that too much of the character development is happening between the sheets. In my view, far, far more went into each companion's loyalty mission and bantering than into their romance.
I have not felt pretty much any digitally in love attachment to any of the ME:A characters (unlike Dorian in Inquisition). All of my liking happened based strictly on non-romanced content. In case of Jaal, the romance actually destroyed the character for me.
There is also a romance that is not with your subordinate, rather someone who runs his own show.
I do not think that you are feeling no empathy because you are not romancing. Vetra and Drack are popular companions among the players that by and large do not romance them
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Post by tehprincessj on May 9, 2017 17:51:57 GMT
No. In fact, the romances, while varied, can't really keep pace with the amount of time you can spend within the game exploring everything.
It helps if you care about at least SOME of the characters, since they develop over time. Only you can decide whether or not that's worth sticking around for, however.
You can't drum up feelings for anyone? Really? Not even your twin?
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Post by vanth on May 9, 2017 18:00:21 GMT
In regards to romances in ME:A it felt to me that BioWARE listened to the critique that too much of the character development is happening between the sheets. In my view, far, far more went into each companion's loyalty mission and bantering than into their romance.
I have not felt pretty much any digitally in love attachment to any of the ME:A characters (unlike Dorian in Inquisition). All of my liking happened based strictly on non-romanced content. In case of Jaal, the romance actually destroyed the character for me.
There is also a romance that is not with your subordinate, rather someone who runs his own show.
I do not think that you are feeling no empathy because you are not romancing. Vetra and Drack are popular companions among the players that by and large do not romance them
That's reassuring. I had wondered if I was hamstrringing my enjoyment. I know about the romance with the smuggler, but given his later revelation (which I won't spoil) I am glad I didn't romance him either.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 18:02:59 GMT
Not really. I romance Jaal and his romance works well with both the plot and his LM, but other than his romance, I find they can be skipped, good friendships formed and still get enjoyment out of it. Bonding with my crew has made me love them just as much as I loved my DAI companions.
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Post by vanth on May 9, 2017 18:03:27 GMT
You can't drum up feelings for anyone? Really? Not even your twin? I am surprised you ask that. He has spent all game in the med-bay so I don't see how I could have feelings for him.
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Post by tehprincessj on May 9, 2017 18:08:53 GMT
You can't drum up feelings for anyone? Really? Not even your twin? I am surprised you ask that. He has spent all game in the med-bay so I don't see how I could have feelings for him. I suppose you and I approach RPGs very differently, as I was super-stressed something terrible was going to happen to him my first playthrough, and it kept with me up until the very end. Alec's fate probably didn't faze you, either, I'm guessing. The reason I asked, is you can absolutely have emotional connections with characters within these types of games without it being romantic.
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Post by Sah291 on May 9, 2017 18:26:29 GMT
Yes, I did find I got a lot more enjoyment out of DAI by doing a romance. But part of that I think is just that the Inquisitor has virtually no backstory to speak of, so the relationships with the companions (and romance) go a long way to helping define your character. Solas in particular I liked, because he actually does something to the Inquisitor...that relationship created conflict and a more bittersweet ending, where the Inquisitor felt a sense of loss and sacrifice, in an otherwise happy ending.
DAO and DA2 were different in that the Warden had origin stories, and Hawke had a family. Shepard was also more of a set protagonist. You could choose gender and service record, and be either paragon or renegade...but with 3 games, you had a sense of who Shepard was.
MEA is similair in many ways to DAI, though they did do much better in terms of giving the Ryder twins some personality and backstory. Ryder has a family like Hawke, even if they didn't use it as much as a plot device. I agree though, it does feel like the devs put more effort into party banter this time around instead of the usual dialogue trees or romances. If you feel disconnected from the characters, probably driving around more in the Nomad is the answer, not necessarily doing a romance...most of their dialogues happen there.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 18:50:24 GMT
In regards to romances in ME:A it felt to me that BioWARE listened to the critique that too much of the character development is happening between the sheets. In my view, far, far more went into each companion's loyalty mission and bantering than into their romance.
I have not felt pretty much any digitally in love attachment to any of the ME:A characters (unlike Dorian in Inquisition). All of my liking happened based strictly on non-romanced content. In case of Jaal, the romance actually destroyed the character for me.
There is also a romance that is not with your subordinate, rather someone who runs his own show.
I do not think that you are feeling no empathy because you are not romancing. Vetra and Drack are popular companions among the players that by and large do not romance them
That's reassuring. I had wondered if I was hamstrringing my enjoyment. I know about the romance with the smuggler, but given his later revelation (which I won't spoil) I am glad I didn't romance him either. I am glad you are reassured. Nothing anyone says can invalidate your feelings. Have fun, play what you wish however you wish. Cheers.
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Post by Scottphoto on May 9, 2017 19:48:27 GMT
Nah, its totally fine to play without romance the games, I played Mass Effect 1 without romancing anyone two times in a row. I don't think your missing out much though, a lot of the scenes in Andromeda for example show up whether romance or not romanced, it just changes the dialogue and how they end, as a friendship scene or as a kiss scene. Personally my favorite character in the game is Drack and you can't romance him but his story and the friendship bond you can achieve with him is really strong. My other favorite is Vetra and she's a great character overall and I didn't romance her either. In Inquisition, I felt I had a really great strong friendship bond with Cullen as well.
If anything I prefer not to romance the characters I create such strong friendships with, that's also why I liked more on this game the romance of Reyes. He is not with you all the time, he has his thing going, you have your own thing going. I feel like you should just give the game sometime, the problem with this game and probably the same with Inquisition is that due to the open world and all the spread out content, it takes a while to get to the really strong bonding parts of the game. In terms of andromeda the character moments happen during the loyalty mission and after their loyalty mission you get to seal more that bond wrap up pretty well.
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Post by wright1978 on May 9, 2017 20:08:55 GMT
Are they necessary, no but to me like in most bioware games they elevate that enjoyment. Who knows if I'd found any of the dai romances half decent it might have lessened my frustrations with that game.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on May 9, 2017 20:17:52 GMT
Considering you can only romance one person per playthrough (more or less) it would be poor design to lock a lot of their personality/screentime/development behind their romance.
If you're not connecting to any of the characters, I'm not sure romancing someone will really help, since I managed to like most of them without romancing them.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 20:23:08 GMT
Are they necessary, no but to me like in most bioware games they elevate that enjoyment. Who knows if I'd found any of the dai romances half decent it might have lessened my frustrations with that game. Dorian, the man who singlehandedly saved Orlais in my verse. Otherwise those rifts would have already swallowed it, and, likely, by now, Fereldain as well.
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Post by Sable Rhapsody on May 9, 2017 23:15:08 GMT
If you're not connecting to any of the characters, I'm not sure romancing someone will really help, since I managed to like most of them without romancing them. Agreed. I don't think I've ever changed my mind for the better about a character due to their romance content. Occasionally for the worse
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Post by caladrius on May 9, 2017 23:25:02 GMT
If you're that weirded out by romancing someone you "have authority over", I would think Peebee, Jaal, Reyes, Keri and Avela would all still be fine. You don't really have any authority over them. They work with you because they choose to and could leave at any time. Not everyone you can romance is really dedicated Tempest crew. The off ship romances, especially, seem like a good choice for you. It seems basically in every game there are LIs that I wouldn't say the PC actually have authority over. In fact, it's pretty common for LIs to do their own thing in major, dramatic ways with or without your approval, like Anders, Isabela, Solas, Reyes, etc.
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Post by Lavochkin on May 10, 2017 0:45:13 GMT
If you're not connecting to any of the characters, I'm not sure romancing someone will really help, since I managed to like most of them without romancing them. Agreed. I don't think I've ever changed my mind for the better about a character due to their romance content. Occasionally for the worse Jacob?
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Post by Sable Rhapsody on May 10, 2017 1:59:33 GMT
Agreed. I don't think I've ever changed my mind for the better about a character due to their romance content. Occasionally for the worse Jacob? Ding ding diiiiing
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 10, 2017 2:56:10 GMT
It's not required for me to enjoy the game as a whole.
My very first play of DAO, I didn't know there were romances. I don't tend to play flirty characters, so I didn't stumble into one. It was a perfectly grand game without the romance. However, I played DAO several times more than that, DA2 about a dozen times, and DAI three full times (and partial plays). ALL of those subsequent plays have been romance plays.
I'm not going to play through a romance "just to see it" or to "catch 'em all" or anything along those lines. I will only romance a character if I actually like them and have some feelings for them as a character. I romanced Alistair several times after that first play, but it was more out of what I thought I should do. I probably won't romance anyone in DAO again, as I'm not crazy about any of them as romance options.
For me, romances are about two things: getting to know the character on a deeper level, and also for different opportunities to roleplay outside of the game's main narrative.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 10, 2017 3:44:41 GMT
Are the romances in ME:A necessary? By that, I am not asking if we are forced into them. I mean, do you feel they are necessary to enjoy the game? Would you enjoy a playthrough where you didn't romance anyone? I am a huge Mass Effect fan. ME2 is probably my favourite game (well, at least top 3) but I am really struggling to like ME:A. It has been out a while now and I have been slogging my way through it, but I am not sure I have the will to go on. It is just so dull and I feel no empathy for any of the characters. (I don't mind the poor animations actually.) I felt the same way about Dragon Age: Inquisistion, even though I loved the first two DA games (yes, I was the only lonely fan of DA2). Again, I felt no empathy for the DA:I characters. I have been thinking about why that is, and I am now wondering if it is because I don't do romances. I find them icky and awkward and I don't like the sort of rapey nature of sex with someone you have been placed in a position of authority over. I didn't do them in the other games either, so didn't think this would be a problem. However, I am wondering if, in DA:I and ME:A, Bioware have made a concious decision to put the character development of NPCs into their romance arcs. Is this true do you think? It certainly wasn't true in ME2 for example - my relationship with Mordin was definitely not romantic, but he had a great fleshed out character with an amazing story arc. But times change, and maybe we are all expected to do the romances now? If that is true, it is a shame. I didn't buy any of the DA:I expansions and I can't see myself wanting to continue with ME:A. I think I may be playing my last Bioware game... I like the romances. I like this aspect of role playing. For me, relationship building (not just romance, but friendships) is a very important part of this type of game. Now, I don't view having sex with a superior officer to necessarily be "rapey". I mean, does anyone really think Kaidan or Ashley could be forced into this kind of thing? And Liara wasn't even a regular part of the command chain other than that she chose to follow him. For ME2, everything seems consensual. Though a warship it was not military. It was technically civilian. I don't think anything is forced there though I understand parts of romance (or fling, maybe?) with Jack can be creepy. She cries during sex or something? Other than that, everything seemed entirely consensual. In ME3, I think we had opportunity for romances to have continued from the past or even start up with someone we've known for a while. Not creepy. Traynor is amusing with her shower scene but that seems more her hitting on Shepard than the other way around. Cortez is weird because of all the crying so to me it's always seemed too much like taking advantage of him so I can't do it. Don't know anything about Allers but she has definitely flirted with Shepard so she knows what she's doing. Kaidan definitely made the first move in ME3, regardless of whether previously romanced or not. Their relationship was contentions enough since ME2 and Kaidan seemed to be the one seeing flirts where I, at least, never noticed. If your entire life is dedicated to living on a warship and fighting bad guys, a relationship might be difficult to find. Is it really fair to ask the ship's commander to remain celibate or confined to hook ups on shore leave just because s/he has that rank? I don't think so. Since the likelihood of being dead pretty soon is very high, I want to give Shepard some happiness while they can get it.
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Post by Lavochkin on May 10, 2017 3:48:37 GMT
Ding ding diiiiing His unintentionally hilarious romance is his one saving grace for me, otherwise he'd be completely forgettable.
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 10, 2017 4:07:27 GMT
I find them icky and awkward and I don't like the sort of rapey nature of sex with someone you have been placed in a position of authority over. I think this depends on the nature of the game and how you headcanon things. DAO's Warden is not a true authority figure. Alistair is the senior Warden, and everyone else joins the merry band because they want to help. The Warden has no authority over anyone in the group. DA2's Hawke is just the tie that binds a bunch of disparate people together, and so is also no authority here. With both DAI's Inquisitor and MEA's Pathfinder, you can play the character as being reluctant in their role. With both of these games, the character doesn't really have a choice, so they could very well just not see most of the followers in the Inner Circle as subordinates. I sort of play my Inquisitor this way. I certainly don't look at the Inner Circle as subordinate, especially not Dorian as my LI. Every single one of them is free to leave. I would argue that these roles are different from the Inquisition grunts out in the field. I would say that, as Pathfinder, Ryder has the most authority over Cora and Liam, and Kallo, Suvi, Gil, and Lexi as crew of the Tempest; Ryder is the captain of the Tempest. All of the other squad join under their own initiative. But in the end, the characters are always portrayed as independent and the game doesn't allow you to coerce them. It's a consensual relationship. I can't speak to other DAI romances, but I do think this is the case with Dorian. The friendship arc is really nice, and also meaningful; I don't take away from that. But if you don't do the romance, you can't really understand the true depth of his pain in how he's never been able to have a true emotional attachment that went beyond sex. The man is practically starved for affection. I would say it's important for a character like Isabela, and also Fenris as well, given their histories. Gil also finds his purpose in falling in love with Scott. But you know... I think it's fair, and also realistic, for them to have the characters be this way. There are some things we only share with our romantic partners. These are often the people that know us the best, who we're most intimate with and close to, physically and emotionally. I'm glad I can know the characters on a deeper level only if I choose to romance them. It makes it feel as if they're letting me in, allowing me to see this part of themselves, and being vulnerable. Falling in love with someone makes you vulnerable to them.
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Post by Gilsa on May 11, 2017 6:27:04 GMT
I had never seen a game with romances until DAO. I chose to play a dwarf and scoffed at the idea of a dwarf being interested in a human, but I wanted to see how exactly the mechanics worked so I did it for science. I did not expect to be drawn in like that. It made me more emotionally invested in the story and broadened my perspective on racial relationships in a fantasy setting. In MMOs, we bragged about killing elves in pvp and like to scapegoat them for role play reasons. This created a shift in my thinking and had me pondering each racial background, what creates divides, what unites them. I feel that romances generally add more complexity to a story. They're not necessary, but it's bonus content.
Having said that, I don't feel as if I must romance anyone. There was a point where I honestly thought I wasn't going to romance anyone in Andromeda because none of them were quite grabbing me. I was skipping over a lot of flirt options with all of them. And then I was checking my emails after completing a mission. It was kind of a heavy mission, too. And Liam said something about it. And it just hit me that Liam has always said something during pivotal moments right from the beginning. And I appreciated that about his character. I wanted to see where a relationship with him would lead and it was honestly better than I expected. It gave me a different perspective on events that happened in the game and I love that another character can provide that kind of impact.
That's the real strength of in-game romances, when it builds on the overall theme and/or challenges the protagonist's views.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 11, 2017 10:34:52 GMT
They're necessary for me. The only reason I ever picked up a BioWare game in the first place is because they let me be gay.
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Post by sungrey on May 11, 2017 18:43:51 GMT
No. I've completed two playthroughs without romancing anyone. In fact, I'd argue not romancing anyone is the most "professional" course of action for Ryder, since your romance options on the Tempest are, sort of, your subordinates.
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caridounette
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by caridounette on May 11, 2017 21:06:14 GMT
I guess there is also the question of how you play RPGs, how much of a self-insert experience this is for you. I rarely do roamces when I play self-insert because what the game offers rarely what gets me, or feels too gamey etc etc. But when it works its a great experience.
Otherwise, I play the romances as 'what would better fit the character' so good or bad its a pretty conscious choice, like writing a story. So I dont need so much empathy for the npc characters, just for the Ryder/Inquisitor im creating.
In MEA, you also could take the romance routes and decline the sex, that is also a possible way to get closer to some characters.
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