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Post by lennybusker on May 16, 2017 1:47:53 GMT
So is there a concensus on which is the most desirable combo? Biotic does most damage, and tech is good cc with a dot. I don't see many cryo or fire combos when I'm playing, are these not as good? I think Cryo is generally the weakest because it has no effect on shields, and only snap freezes HP mobs. Tech has an effect on all of them, but it's the weakest in terms of pure damage. Fire actually has the most damage if you let the DOTs hit for their full duration, but obviously you're going to be killing a lot of the affected enemies with other means before it receives the full burn. Personally I'd say biotics for pure damage since it's all frontloaded and tech for best utility.
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Post by treoir on May 16, 2017 2:05:26 GMT
But, but... ok, now I am thinking you meant to say that I was incorrect on point 1 - that if the primer has the passive and that the detonator does not, that the combo will not get the passive bonus? Misunderstood what you were asking, you were confused by the terms. ComboBonus Passive can only come from one source - a class's passive skill. So it applies to all of their combos. ComboBonus Detenator is the one that can be isolated to the detonator skill. Ok, so now I feel like I need to re-ask about this part: You did not say this, but seemed to suggest: ... (o) ComboBonusPassive does not apply twice even when the primer and the detonator are from two different characters and both have the passive. Can you verify whether my understanding is correct (or tell me if I am wrong)? ... 2) Correct, because it's only affecting the combo detonation, and the detonation only comes from one person. It seems to me that there are three interesting cases with ComboBonusPassive: Detonator has passive. Primer has passive Detonator and Primer both have passive. You have answered me now that the detonation only comes from one person and also that the passive only comes from one source. But I guess I am asking if you have tested all three cases?
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Post by lennybusker on May 16, 2017 2:09:32 GMT
It seems to me that there are three interesting cases with ComboBonusPassive: Detonator has passive. Primer has passive Detonator and Primer both have passive. You have answered me now that the detonation only comes from one person and also that the passive only comes from one source. But I guess I am asking if you have tested all three cases? No. No, no, no. Brother, listen. There is only one source of ComboBonusPassive - the person detonating's passive Skill- either Offensive Biotics or Offensive Tech (or Ascension, if you wanna nitpick). Detonators, do, not, have, ComboBonusPassive. This is why we called it "ComboBonus Passive", because it comes from a passive skill.
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Post by treoir on May 16, 2017 2:30:25 GMT
There is only one source of ComboBonusPassive - the person detonating's passive Skill- either Offensive Biotics or Offensive Tech (or Ascension, if you wanna nitpick). Detonators, do, not, have, ComboBonusPassive. Ok, so, Detonators do not have combatbonuspassive and only detonators get combatbonuspassive. *deep breath* That's ... clear as mud. That said, if you are correct, what I think you are trying to tell me is that combatbonuspassive only applies to the detonator, while also telling me that it's a passive (and, thus, can be applied to a one point detonator). In other words, I now think you are telling me that if the person priming has combatbonuspassive and the person detonating does not, that the combo does not get the passive. (Because combatbonuspassive on person priming would seem to to me to be a different source for combatbonuspassive than combatbonuspassive on person detonating.) But that completely contradicts something you posted earlier: ComboBonus Passive can only come from one source - a class's passive skill. So it applies to all of their combos. ComboBonus Detenator is the one that can be isolated to the detonator skill. So, I'll just say that this is clear as mud.
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Post by lennybusker on May 16, 2017 2:41:58 GMT
There is only one source of ComboBonusPassive - the person detonating's passive Skill- either Offensive Biotics or Offensive Tech (or Ascension, if you wanna nitpick). Detonators, do, not, have, ComboBonusPassive. Ok, so, Detonators do not have combatbonuspassive and only detonators get combatbonuspassive. *deep breath* That's ... clear as mud. That said, if you are correct, what I think you are trying to tell me is that combatbonuspassive only applies to the detonator, while also telling me that it's a passive (and, thus, can be applied to a one point detonator). In other words, I now think you are telling me that if the person priming has combatbonuspassive and the person detonating does not, that the combo does not get the passive. But that completely contradicts something you posted earlier: Misunderstood what you were asking, you were confused by the terms. ComboBonus Passive can only come from one source - a class's passive skill. So it applies to all of their combos. ComboBonus Detenator is the one that can be isolated to the detonator skill. So, I'll just say that this is clear as mud. Are you using the word "detonator" to mean "power that detonates" or "person that uses a detonator power"? Because that could be the source of your confusion. Just one more time though, to clear things up (and just read this in isolation, don't try to combine 3 or 4 posts at once to see this) The combo is detonated by the person who casts the detonator power. Therefore only the person who casts the detonator power can contribute their combo bonus skills to the final damage. The person who primed it has nothing to do with the final damage formula. The person who detonates can boost combo damage in two ways: with a PASSIVE skill, meaning either Offensive Biotics or Offensive Tech, for a 50% bonus to base damage, or with their ACTIVE skill i.e. the detonator power, for a 30% bonus to base damage.
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Post by treoir on May 16, 2017 3:51:00 GMT
Are you using the word "detonator" to mean "power that detonates" or "person that uses a detonator power"? Because that could be the source of your confusion. Just one more time though, to clear things up (and just read this in isolation, don't try to combine 3 or 4 posts at once to see this) The combo is detonated by the person who casts the detonator power. Therefore only the person who casts the detonator power can contribute their combo bonus skills to the final damage. The person who primed it has nothing to do with the final damage formula. The person who detonates can boost combo damage in two ways: with a PASSIVE skill, meaning either Offensive Biotics or Offensive Tech, for a 50% bonus to base damage, or with their ACTIVE skill i.e. the detonator power, for a 30% bonus to base damage. Ok, I think that that answers my question. You are saying that ComboBonusPassive of person who primed is irrelevant. That said, I do not think that your current emphasis on terminology can be entirely valid, because you were already clear that the person who primes does have something to do with the final damage formula: Combo | Biotic | Cryo | Fire | Tech | Effect | Extra Force | AOE Chill or Snap Freeze | Enemy-based DOT | Ground-based DOT | vs HP | Normal Damage | Normal Damage | Normal Damage | Normal Damage | vs Armor | Normal Damage | 1.5 Damage Multiplier | 1.5 Damage Multiplier | Normal Damage | vs Shields | Normal Damage | Normal Damage | Normal Damage | 2.5 Damage Multiplier |
Anyways, thanks, I think I have gotten my question answered. (Though, of course, this might or might not change in patch 1.07)
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Post by srkm00b on May 16, 2017 4:05:48 GMT
Sequential Combat Log from the gif. (You can watch the log in the gif if you don't believe me heh) In the log, you can see the cascade effect a little more clearly. 6 targets are hit with Explosive Purge, priming them. As the target gets hit by Charge and triggers an explosion, it also triggers that target's combo immunity. That's why the colors disappear as you get farther down the list. You can also see that there's an oddity with Combo 2. The dark blue target 9E8474D0, was outside the combo radius of combo 2. He also did not get hit by Charge, otherwise there would be another 2 rows to the log showing it getting hit by Charge 6 / Combo Damage 6. Hope this illustrates the cascade combo effect a little more clearly, and why some targets (like the dark blue one) take massive damage and you're able to one shot some things that doesn't seem possible. This also applies to Krogan Gladiator Pull + Melee, although the "combo" radius is A LOT smaller and harder to cascade 4-5 times. Most likely you'll only get a double cascade or rarely a triple with Krogan Gladiator.
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Post by varicite on May 16, 2017 4:18:30 GMT
So is there a concensus on which is the most desirable combo? Biotic does most damage, and tech is good cc with a dot. I don't see many cryo or fire combos when I'm playing, are these not as good? I think Cryo is generally the weakest because it has no effect on shields, and only snap freezes HP mobs. Tech has an effect on all of them, but it's the weakest in terms of pure damage. Fire actually has the most damage if you let the DOTs hit for their full duration, but obviously you're going to be killing a lot of the affected enemies with other means before it receives the full burn. Personally I'd say biotics for pure damage since it's all frontloaded and tech for best utility. I never pick Cryo because it overwrites the DoT effect from fire abilities, effectively neutering many of my teammates' builds. I dislike grouping w/ Mangineers for the same reason, even though Cryo beam is pretty much awesome. Unfortunately, the new Flamethrower and Incinerate are more awesome, as are my A.Sentinel's wtfgiant fire explosions. I was just curious what most people were running w/. I almost never see anyone running disruptor ammo. I'm also curious if Asari Sentinel's 30% biotic damage buff on Throw would make her Tech explosions do about the same damage as a Biotic explosion.
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Post by shaundidrake on May 16, 2017 5:13:12 GMT
OP: How long is Nova's priming duration? If I take Charge evo 6A, is it possible to detonate Nova combo with Charge-Nova-Charge in succession?
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Post by Kenny Bania on May 16, 2017 9:20:50 GMT
This may have already been covered and I may have missed it (sorry,too lazy to re-read the thread), but does the expose rank of pull apply to the combo detonation also? It's my understanding that the expose isn't valid after the detonation.
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Post by peddroelm on May 16, 2017 9:25:52 GMT
This may have already been covered and I may have missed it (sorry,too lazy to re-read the thread), but does the expose rank of pull apply to the combo detonation also? It's my understanding that the expose isn't valid after the detonation. not only it applies. It also applies to all targets hit by that combo AOE even if only the pulled detonated target was actually debuffed by pull .
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Post by Kenny Bania on May 16, 2017 9:33:28 GMT
This may have already been covered and I may have missed it (sorry,too lazy to re-read the thread), but does the expose rank of pull apply to the combo detonation also? It's my understanding that the expose isn't valid after the detonation. not only it applies. It also applies to all targets hit by that combo AOE even if only the pulled detonated target was actually debuffed by pull . Sweet!!! Is it safe to assume that the exposure in offensive biotics works the same way?
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Post by peddroelm on May 16, 2017 9:40:01 GMT
not only it applies. It also applies to all targets hit by that combo AOE even if only the pulled detonated target was actually debuffed by pull . Sweet!!! Is it safe to assume that the exposure in offensive biotics works the same way? no need to assume
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Post by Kenny Bania on May 16, 2017 9:42:55 GMT
Sweet!!! Is it safe to assume that the exposure in offensive biotics works the same way? no need to assume Thanks peddro
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Post by lennybusker on May 16, 2017 10:31:44 GMT
OP: How long is Nova's priming duration? If I take Charge evo 6A, is it possible to detonate Nova combo with Charge-Nova-Charge in succession? We are working on compiling priming duration for all primers in a new revamped version of the Combo Damage Table. Just checking with that, it looks like 3 seconds for Nova. So, Charge-Nova-Charge is fine as long as you wait a couple seconds after the first charge.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jun 8, 2017 15:19:45 GMT
This is probably a good place to ask.
How does "Throw" work as a primer?
I notice there is a rank 5 evo that extends the duration of being primed by 400%. Is the window incredibly small, making self-detonation impossible without that evo, or is there a technique or mechanic to Throw as a primer that I'm missing?
I assume that if I'm "Holding" a target by holding down the bumper, that would probably make it so that a teammate could detonate, is that what it is referring to?
Thanks for any clarifications.
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Post by huntedhunt on Jun 8, 2017 15:32:33 GMT
How does "Throw" work as a primer? I notice there is a rank 5 evo that extends the duration of being primed by 400%. Is the window incredibly small, making self-detonation impossible without that evo, or is there a technique or mechanic to Throw as a primer that I'm missing? The window is small, but the projectile travel time lets some classes self-detonate even a R1 throw. You need a bit of distance for this usually, but can also delay it by curving the shot (turning sharply and throwing very quickly just before the power un-targets - lets you throw around corners which is handy). For example, Throw followed by Energy Drain at the moment of impact can detonate. With Energy Drain ranked to prime, you can even get two detonations if the drain hits at the same time as the throw projectile. As for held targets - Targets held with pull are not primed, only targets lifted by tap-pull. If throw has any similar hold-action, I'm not aware of it - There seems to be very few powers that actually have an alternate mode.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jun 8, 2017 15:54:44 GMT
How does "Throw" work as a primer? I notice there is a rank 5 evo that extends the duration of being primed by 400%. Is the window incredibly small, making self-detonation impossible without that evo, or is there a technique or mechanic to Throw as a primer that I'm missing? The window is small, but the projectile travel time lets some classes self-detonate even a R1 throw. You need a bit of distance for this usually, but can also delay it by curving the shot (turning sharply and throwing very quickly just before the power un-targets - lets you throw around corners which is handy). For example, Throw followed by Energy Drain at the moment of impact can detonate. With Energy Drain ranked to prime, you can even get two detonations if the drain hits at the same time as the throw projectile. As for held targets - Targets held with pull are not primed, only targets lifted by tap-pull. If throw has any similar hold-action, I'm not aware of it - There seems to be very few powers that actually have an alternate mode. Thanks. When I saw the number "400%" I figured it was probably a very small window. I felt like I had definitely had my Throw detonated by teammates, but no matter how quickly I fired off Energy Drain, I never seemed to pull it off by myself. I've built priming Barrier, and have Energy Drain set for priming as well. The detonations are quite frequent and satisfying, but I couldn't help but wonder what moar combos would be like. I'm at level 18 with the Sentinel, so I have to commit to how I'm spending the last 7 points. If I pick priming Throw I'll have two wasted points left over, but I think It might be worth it. Especially if I get a Biotic Combo out of it, which would expand my Sentinel's damage output and variety a lot.
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