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Post by Frost on Aug 15, 2020 3:13:48 GMT
Which is why I want the Inquisitor to die in the opening cinematic. Then, like Shepard, the Inquisitor could be brought back to life and become an agent of the Dread Wolf.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 15, 2020 3:21:10 GMT
Which is why I want the Inquisitor to die in the opening cinematic. Then, like Shepard, the Inquisitor could be brought back to life and become an agent of the Dread Wolf. I was going to complain, but then realized that doesn't mean having Solas succeed since at the end we can screw him over just like Shepard does TIM.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 15, 2020 3:29:38 GMT
Which is why I want the Inquisitor to die in the opening cinematic. Then, like Shepard, the Inquisitor could be brought back to life and become an agent of the Dread Wolf. If it's as a shambling corpse I have to put down, then fine by me.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 15, 2020 5:02:26 GMT
Also, if I wanted to play a game where an ancient wizard's assault on the spiritual plane can only be stopped by me and my special hand, I would just play Inquisition again.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 15, 2020 8:55:50 GMT
Which is why I want the Inquisitor to die in the opening cinematic. This is actually why the simplest way to remove the Inquisitor from the scene entirely would be to have them die at the end of Trespasser. The problem with the way they left it is that a lot of people did think that meant they will be playing the Inquisitor again. In my case it is not necessarily because I want to play them again but after that confrontation with Solas I could not seem them being content to take a passive role in tracking him down and certainly not in finally dealing with him. Why even give them that alternative option for a closing remark if they are on good terms with him? Essentially Trespasser was a spectacular fail in achieving what they claimed they wanted it to achieve. They would have done better to leave the Inquisitor as they were at the end of the main game, standing on the balcony basking in the warm glow of success (or dejection of rejection if they romanced Solas) but oblivious of the danger that Solas still posed. Then next game switch the action to Tevinter, where the Inquisition has agents but no real jurisdiction and take it from there, with a new PC and the threat from Solas still to be discovered.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 15, 2020 9:38:14 GMT
Trespasser was a spectacular fail in achieving what they claimed they wanted it to achieve. I don't agree, to be honest. Plenty of other games (and books and movies) leave things fairly open-ended despite being "over", in fact Dragon Age LOVES leaving plotlines unresolved, and I don't consider the Inquisitor's stated intention to really be relevant. He can still fail, he can still die. In fact, what I would vastly prefer is if we skipped all the Solas/Inquisitor crap that frankly just sounds like Inquisition Redux, and go straight to having the Evanuris unleashed on the world.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 15, 2020 11:32:22 GMT
In fact, what I would vastly prefer is if we skipped all the Solas/Inquisitor crap that frankly just sounds like Inquisition Redux, and go straight to having the Evanuris unleashed on the world. If it means we finally get what was promised in that first 2013 trailer, then bring it on.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Aug 15, 2020 11:48:51 GMT
Then, like Shepard, the Inquisitor could be brought back to life and become an agent of the Dread Wolf. I was going to complain, but then realized that doesn't mean having Solas succeed since at the end we can screw him over just like Shepard does TIM. You mean screwing him over after being his errand boy/girl and being forced through numerous pointless arguments where our character is struck with cutscene stupidity, only for him to ass-pull some sort of body control in the end and having to engage him in dialogue one last time? No thanks.
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Post by Frost on Aug 15, 2020 14:04:49 GMT
Essentially Trespasser was a spectacular fail in achieving what they claimed they wanted it to achieve. They would have done better to leave the Inquisitor as they were at the end of the main game, standing on the balcony basking in the warm glow of success (or dejection of rejection if they romanced Solas) but oblivious of the danger that Solas still posed. Then next game switch the action to Tevinter, where the Inquisition has agents but no real jurisdiction and take it from there, with a new PC and the threat from Solas still to be discovered. Although I like the Solas plotline with the Inquisitor as pc, what I would prefer if they didn't want to bring the Inquisitor back as pc is that they not have the Solas plotline at all in DAI. Why have a former pc's companion as a villain for a new pc? If you have a new pc, why not a new villain?
However, they did write a continuing plotline and left the story with a cliffhanger at the end of Trespasser with Solas telling the Inquisitor he was going to destroy the Inquisitor's world. Because of that, I think they should continue with the Inquisitor as pc in DA4. At this point having Solas and/or the Inquisitor die at the start of DA4 would feel cheap, and I can't see them doing that. Solas's threat is also too big to just drop or ignore.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 16, 2020 0:27:16 GMT
Essentially Trespasser was a spectacular fail in achieving what they claimed they wanted it to achieve. They would have done better to leave the Inquisitor as they were at the end of the main game, standing on the balcony basking in the warm glow of success (or dejection of rejection if they romanced Solas) but oblivious of the danger that Solas still posed. Then next game switch the action to Tevinter, where the Inquisition has agents but no real jurisdiction and take it from there, with a new PC and the threat from Solas still to be discovered. Although I like the Solas plotline with the Inquisitor as pc, what I would prefer if they didn't want to bring the Inquisitor back as pc is that they not have the Solas plotline at all in DAI. Why have a former pc's companion as a villain for a new pc? If you have a new pc, why not a new villain?
However, they did write a continuing plotline and left the story with a cliffhanger at the end of Trespasser with Solas telling the Inquisitor he was going to destroy the Inquisitor's world. Because of that, I think they should continue with the Inquisitor as pc in DA4. At this point having Solas and/or the Inquisitor die at the start of DA4 would feel cheap, and I can't see them doing that. Solas's threat is also too big to just drop or ignore.
It's not "ignoring the threat" if they let Solas succeed and release the Evanuris. The Evanuris are, according to Solas, a much BIGGER threat than him, which he himself was only able to defeat through trickery. If Solas is going to be the main villain, then that means dropping and ignoring the threat that they present.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 12, 2020 10:31:00 GMT
So since yesterday we know he is. Not as a companion or advisor but he is there. I am sorry for people who don't like him or find him annoying. For you i hope he hasn't have a big role. But my day yesterday was: Varric, varric, varric, varric. I was quite happy.
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Post by fluffysmom on Dec 12, 2020 11:11:16 GMT
I don’t want him back. Loved him in 2, never used him once I got Cole and I always play archer anyway. It felt like he was there to flesh out Cassandra, which was adorable but aside from that I didn’t even speak to him after in other playthroughs. Though I have to admit, if there’s a scene in 4 of him saying he knows a person that can help and he invited them I will have to chuckle at the call-back.
I fully expect Inky to return. I had issues with my Hawke’s dialogue like some people but I don’t see why, in a scene where our new hero meets them, it can’t switch control to our Inky and we answer a pre determined set of questions that sets the tone for them about Solas and such. Would that be jarring for anyone?
Either that or just let us control them while we talk to Varric and if there’s auto dialogue in battle or whatever, what they say is determined from those choices. Or something? Might not even be doable, I dunno. Maybe they’re the old friend that’s returning? Or the Warden? (Just joking...kind of)
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Post by theascendent on Dec 12, 2020 14:40:10 GMT
I only hope he is a narrator/mission control/inquisition contact than a companion.
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Post by gangly369 on Dec 12, 2020 16:01:33 GMT
I'm in the camp of 'let's wait and see what Bioware actually does with the character before judging whether he should be in the game or not'.
Maybe he is a companion. Or maybe he is just an advisor, or quest-giver. Or maybe he is just going to be a narrator.
I really don't understand why people feel a need to take a hard stance right now on whether or not a character should be included (other than boredom...which I guess answers my question as to 'why'). Just wait and see how it plays out. We can always eviscerate Bioware and the writers after we have seen what they decide to do with the character
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 12, 2020 16:58:12 GMT
I really don't understand why people feel a need to take a hard stance right now on whether or not a character should be included (other than boredom...which I guess answers my question as to 'why'). Just wait and see how it plays out. We can always eviscerate Bioware and the writers after we have seen what they decide to do with the character Why? You can´t be serious. The answer is very simple why most people don´t want Varric as a major character in DA 4. He has been this for two games plus all the DLCs. I don´t hate Varric. The truth is i still love this character but its more than enough. Don´t forget he had already a good ending as Kirkwall Vicomte. But No they brought him back for what? That he will be killed? Sorry but no thanks.
Edit: Also i would hate the idea to level him again.
Also the main problem with returning characters is that you can´t bring all back. Varric been in DA 4 means that someone less doesn´t get the screentime. If Varric is even a DA 4 companion well its impossible that Harding will be a companion.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 12, 2020 18:51:01 GMT
Maybe he is a companion. Or maybe he is just an advisor, or quest-giver. Or maybe he is just going to be a narrator. Of these I would say only the middle option is a viable one for it to make any sense him being there. Being a companion would take up a slot that could be occupied by a new interesting person, unless they make him a temporary companion, like Morrigan, that we don't actually control and is an add on to our own party. As for the idea of him being a narrator, well that would make him telling the story after the fact, as in DA2, which would rather ruin the suspense since you would know that either he survived and the world was okay, or he survived and the world was changed but somehow he survived that too. The more I think about it, the more I think he is going to be our contact with the Ben'Hassrath. Gatt says they have a dwarf contact in Kirkwall that can only be him and they are actively working against Solas, plus Charter says they probably know more about his recent activities than anyone else, so at some point we are going to want to get in touch with them. Plus I think he may be acting as a sort of intelligence hub for the shadow Inquisition generally and may also be a direct link to the Inquisitor if they are in their estate in Kirkwall. I originally thought Dorian would be their main contact via the crystal but people have pointed out that he doesn't always leave on good terms in the main game so never gives the Inquisitor his crystal in Trespasser, whereas Varric, just as with Hawke, regards any Inquisitor as his best bud no matter what they are like, or you really have to work hard to get on his bad side. Nevertheless, I think he always offers the Inquisitor the estate in Kirkwall and key to the city chains, so there is not the problem of differing outcomes you get with Dorian.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 12, 2020 19:25:46 GMT
Varrics inclusion again is annoying a bit but does also make a certain degree of sense. All these stories need a in universe storyteller role and he has always been the closest DA equivalent.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 12, 2020 19:42:30 GMT
All these stories need a in universe storyteller role and he has always been the closest DA equivalent. Yet he wasn't that role in the main DAI game. That was Morrigan and the she disappeared before the epilogue to Trespasser which was silent. What seems ironic now is that Varric should never have made it to DAI at all because in the original concept for tying up Hawke's story, Varric would be dead. Yet somehow, once that idea was dropped, he was promoted to person you can't possibly do without. I have to admit at least there is rather more justification for him being involved with DA4 than there was with Inquisition. The reason for him being in Haven at all was variously given as needing to tell his story to Justinia personally (Why? Wouldn't she accept Cassandra's word on it?) or that Justinia was a fan and wanted to meet her favourite author personally (Again, why at the Conclave exactly?) So he was pushed into the plot of DAI in a much more spurious way than now, provided he is not deliberately dropped into some location where he would never normally be. In any case, why do these stories need a universal storyteller? We didn't have one for Origins, Duncan being killed off after introducing the narrative. Varric narrated DA2 because that is the way the plot was framed. Then as I say, Morrigan was the narrator for DAI but wasn't considered necessary for Trespasser. Let's be original and not have anyone actually narrating it.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 12, 2020 23:15:11 GMT
All these stories need a in universe storyteller role and he has always been the closest DA equivalent. Yet he wasn't that role in the main DAI game. That was Morrigan and the she disappeared before the epilogue to Trespasser which was silent. What seems ironic now is that Varric should never have made it to DAI at all because in the original concept for tying up Hawke's story, Varric would be dead. Yet somehow, once that idea was dropped, he was promoted to person you can't possibly do without. I have to admit at least there is rather more justification for him being involved with DA4 than there was with Inquisition. The reason for him being in Haven at all was variously given as needing to tell his story to Justinia personally (Why? Wouldn't she accept Cassandra's word on it?) or that Justinia was a fan and wanted to meet her favourite author personally (Again, why at the Conclave exactly?) So he was pushed into the plot of DAI in a much more spurious way than now, provided he is not deliberately dropped into some location where he would never normally be. In any case, why do these stories need a universal storyteller? We didn't have one for Origins, Duncan being killed off after introducing the narrative. Varric narrated DA2 because that is the way the plot was framed. Then as I say, Morrigan was the narrator for DAI but wasn't considered necessary for Trespasser. Let's be original and not have anyone actually narrating it. I did think of that too as the most obvious counter to it. However, there is three possible reasons maybe to not use Morrigan. 1. Maybe they couldn't get Claudia Black back? (God I hope not.) 2. Having Morrigan talk about 'no magic hands, no ancient prophecies' when she is likely steeped up to her neck in such things, a very high level character indeed, would come off as super disengenious. Also probably why they didn't use GDL himself. Varric screams down to Earth. 3. While Morrigan technically did fullfill that role in the last game considering she read the outro slides it kind of is a little bit of a stretch still considering there was no indication she was recording events or was interested in 'writing'. Hell Cassandra showed more of an interest with her writing down what happened in HLTA for posterity. ' Varric has always been a storyteller (the only one who has fit that mold with DA so far), is worldy, and is a popular character. Why some may feel over exposed to him he does check all the boxes for a trailer like this.
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Post by gangly369 on Dec 12, 2020 23:32:43 GMT
I really don't understand why people feel a need to take a hard stance right now on whether or not a character should be included (other than boredom...which I guess answers my question as to 'why'). Just wait and see how it plays out. We can always eviscerate Bioware and the writers after we have seen what they decide to do with the character Why? You can´t be serious. The answer is very simple why most people don´t want Varric as a major character in DA 4. He has been this for two games plus all the DLCs. I don´t hate Varric. The truth is i still love this character but its more than enough. Don´t forget he had already a good ending as Kirkwall Vicomte. But No they brought him back for what? That he will be killed? Sorry but no thanks.
Edit: Also i would hate the idea to level him again.
Also the main problem with returning characters is that you can´t bring all back. Varric been in DA 4 means that someone less doesn´t get the screentime. If Varric is even a DA 4 companion well its impossible that Harding will be a companion.
...why can't I be serious? It seems far more reasonable for me to wait to see what a given product has to offer before judging whether or not it's good. I can see why people might be apprehensive (to a degree), but even then, it's just people imagining worst case scenarios. Why do that to yourself when you have zero idea how the character is going to be implemented in the next game? Personally, if I had to sit down and think about a returning character, I'd rather try to find the positives, the possible story scenarios that they could fit into, rather than sit around and imagine how horrible it's going to be.
As to your issue that Varric is stealing screentime from another character...what? This is just bizarre to me. Unless you somehow have some information the rest of us don't, and you're actually one of the writers for the game, you have no idea if Varric is stealing screentime from...anyone. I don't even know how you would quantify this. 'Varric is on the screen for ten minutes, therefore character X has lost 10 minutes'? But how did you determine that such-and-such character lost screentime? What if the writers didn't have anything else to say about character X, and they got as much screentime as the devs intended? Did Varric still steal 10 minutes? And what about the myriad of other, random characters? Did NPC #2396 steal screentime because they were talking when character X could have possibly spoken?
I guess what I'm trying to get across is 'why worry when we still have zero idea how any of this will play out, much less how well the story and/or characters will be implemented in the next game'.
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Post by Quinton O'Connor on Dec 12, 2020 23:34:48 GMT
I'm cool with him being a companion. I'm cool with him being a non-playable advisor. Hell, I'm cool with him simply showing up for a little while contrary to what we're thinking given his narration in the most recent trailer.
In short, I'm cool with whatever the writers decide fits the story best.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 13, 2020 0:49:50 GMT
That moment you realize Varric is the true protagonist of Dragon Age...
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Post by NotN7 on Dec 13, 2020 3:48:07 GMT
That moment you realize Varric is the true protagonist of Dragon Age... LOL! like a bad penny they always return. There is no story without a story teller
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Post by eaglepursuit on Dec 13, 2020 4:55:44 GMT
I'm ok with Varric under the conditions that he is 1) a non-playable advisor, and 2) a liaison to the Inquisition, so that we never actually see the Inquisitor, who seems to be giving the PC under the table support.
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Post by mattjamho on Dec 13, 2020 10:07:24 GMT
I like the idea of him being our benefactor, he hires us on behalf of the Inquistion, so they aren’t tied to our new NPC so directly. He also has a lengthy list of contacts, so I see him as the early game quest giver (he could put us in contact with Dorian in Tevinter, Josephine in Antiva, Isabela in Rivain etc.)
While he’s not my favourite companion, I’m not mad about having him back. Aside from Morrigan, he’s the most recognisable companion from the series. It’d have been nice for one of the DAI crew to become the voice of the new game though.
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