kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jul 8, 2017 1:18:18 GMT
Fucking *yawn*
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Post by colfoley on Jul 8, 2017 1:21:11 GMT
while i have not blocked him (assuming your yawning about that) it is hard taking any of his posts seriously given his self admitted play time.
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OdanUrr
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Post by OdanUrr on Jul 8, 2017 1:24:02 GMT
Early development for ME:A began in 2012. All I could find on Inquisition is that it was informally announced around May 2011, so they were probably working on it a bit earlier, maybe as much as a year earlier (would need confirmation). With this info alone, I cannot confidently state that ME:A had less development time than DA:I. In fact, I could argue that it had more, but let's settle for around the same. the trouble is that by some indications the game that we know as MEA didn't begin development until 18 months before launch. That MEA was a very different game. That is an obscenely short development cycle for a triple a game. Especially given MEA and its budget constraints. Ah, yes, if you're talking about that 18-month stretch, then I agree it's a very short time frame and Montreal did a gargantuan job to ship the game in a state resembling functional. However, at the end of the day, BioWare had 5 years to work on the game and wasted most of it through no one's fault but their own (call it internal squabbles, politics, whatever). Can we expect future Mass Effect or Dragon Age titles to be affected by similar issues?
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Post by colfoley on Jul 8, 2017 1:25:59 GMT
the trouble is that by some indications the game that we know as MEA didn't begin development until 18 months before launch. That MEA was a very different game. That is an obscenely short development cycle for a triple a game. Especially given MEA and its budget constraints. Ah, yes, if you're talking about that 18-month stretch, then I agree it's a very short time frame and Montreal did a gargantuan job to ship the game in anything resembling functional. However, at the end of the day, BioWare had 5 years to work on the game and wasted most of it through no one's fault but their own (call it internal squabbles, politics, whatever). Can we expect future Mass Effect or Dragon Age titles to be affected by similar issues? i doubt it on.the Edmonton side anyway. I suppose anthem might suffer from this problem lol.
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jul 8, 2017 1:44:22 GMT
the trouble is that by some indications the game that we know as MEA didn't begin development until 18 months before launch. That MEA was a very different game. That is an obscenely short development cycle for a triple a game. Especially given MEA and its budget constraints. Ah, yes, if you're talking about that 18-month stretch, then I agree it's a very short time frame and Montreal did a gargantuan job to ship the game in a state resembling functional. However, at the end of the day, BioWare had 5 years to work on the game and wasted most of it through no one's fault but their own (call it internal squabbles, politics, whatever). Can we expect future Mass Effect or Dragon Age titles to be affected by similar issues? I think every studio at some point faces changes that affect the way their games are developed. Changes in development (I think moving to FB fits there), change in management (which BioWare and ME definitely had after ME3) and changes in creators (writers and artists moving on). Hopefully BioWare has learned how to better adapt to those after ME:A. No way to really know until the next release.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 8, 2017 1:47:35 GMT
while i have not blocked him (assuming your yawning about that) it is hard taking any of his posts seriously given his self admitted play time. Seeing as the first three points are objective truths based on all available information, they're pretty easy to take seriously. Just trying to make sure the correct information is out there.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jul 8, 2017 2:09:39 GMT
Ah, yes, if you're talking about that 18-month stretch, then I agree it's a very short time frame and Montreal did a gargantuan job to ship the game in anything resembling functional. However, at the end of the day, BioWare had 5 years to work on the game and wasted most of it through no one's fault but their own (call it internal squabbles, politics, whatever). Can we expect future Mass Effect or Dragon Age titles to be affected by similar issues? i doubt it on.the Edmonton side anyway. I suppose anthem might suffer from this problem lol. Mistakes and in this case, a consecutive mistake has knocked BioWare's reputation. I want to blame it all on EA, but mistakes were made at the higher levels in BioWare. The amount of turnover was really bad and you know it affected development. Despite all of that, I have a game that I really love. Yeah, it has cringe moments. So did the original trilogy if you ever decide to look at it objectively without rose-colored glasses on. However, it's the broken launch that hurt BioWare. Not so much the writing, the normal glitches associated with release, but the fact that it was such an easy target. EA had an embargo and YouTube already was baring its teeth. Come the Origin Access trial and everyone has a hot, new story. "BioWare is releasing a POS." That was my viewpoint. I didn't know what was going on because the forums were closed and sorry, I'm not on Reddit, Twitter, Facebook or whatever because I'm paranoid about getting in trouble with my employer. Almost a year before Andromeda, everyone on YouTube was blasting people like Sam Maggs (for no good reason, freaking cowards), Manveer Heir (for every damn good reason, that SOB), Chris Wynn leaving (because BioWare is a sinking ship) and MANY, MANY OTHER EXAMPLES. And EA's response: some stupid PR stunt here or there. That's my perspective. BioWare developers took it all on the God-dang chin. They felt the brunt of it all and it had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with their paygrade. They felt my rage... I know. I thought I was dealing with just white knights or evil trolls. Then I realized the value of these forums and it helped a lot to fill in the blanks that I had. My attitude has changed because of the patches, the toughness these guys have that I accused them of not having and I know what it's like to have done your job only to be crapped on later. Andromeda's launch is a dead horse. That's long past. The hype window for the game has passed. BioWare is holding the line and hopefully I am right that we are indeed going to get DLC and maybe even more. The game has been redeemed for the most part and it kills me that I have to wait until the new rig is built to play it here. You'll know I'll be playing it when I'm alone in the boonies doing my thing. And, by the way, off subject but still on (and I know TL;DR) I'm down with Anthem. I'm going to read the forums for about 24 hours and then get it. I'm not preordering it because BioWare still has the reputation of not delivering on time. Release dates matter and they matter even more now because the studio is under the microscope. No pressure, right? Also, I'm seeing coordinated hate to make life miserable for the development team. Maybe I'm seeing it too closely, but I have a feeling old fans and old ex-employees certainly don't want BioWare to succeed. That's my tin-foil hat conspiracy. It's just speculation, right?
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 8, 2017 2:31:25 GMT
while i have not blocked him (assuming your yawning about that) it is hard taking any of his posts seriously given his self admitted play time. Seeing as the first three points are objective truths based on all available information, they're pretty easy to take seriously. Just trying to make sure the correct information is out there. Only you twist it to serve your purpose. Just like you trashing a game based on 10 min of play time.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 8, 2017 2:43:29 GMT
while i have not blocked him (assuming your yawning about that) it is hard taking any of his posts seriously given his self admitted play time. Seeing as the first three points are objective truths based on all available information, they're pretty easy to take seriously. Just trying to make sure the correct information is out there. Or "facts" to suit you narrative.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 8, 2017 2:49:46 GMT
Seeing as the first three points are objective truths based on all available information, they're pretty easy to take seriously. Just trying to make sure the correct information is out there. Or "facts" to suit you narrative. No... That's what Jon Snow was attempting - you could argue point 4-5, but 1-3 are true. Feel free to prove me wrong and I'll buy you a copy of Blood, Sweat and Pixels (coming out in just under two months).
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Post by smilesja on Jul 8, 2017 2:50:38 GMT
Or "facts" to suit you narrative. No... That's what Jon Snow was attempting - you could argue point 4-5, but 1-3 are true. Feel free to prove me wrong and I'll buy you a copy of Blood, Sweat and Pixels (coming out in just under two months). I'm not interested in your book Jason.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 8, 2017 2:51:00 GMT
Seeing as the first three points are objective truths based on all available information, they're pretty easy to take seriously. Just trying to make sure the correct information is out there. Only you twist it to serve your purpose. Just like you trashing a game based on 10 min of play time. I played the ten hours - stop twisting my words to serve your purpose please.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 8, 2017 2:51:38 GMT
No... That's what Jon Snow was attempting - you could argue point 4-5, but 1-3 are true. Feel free to prove me wrong and I'll buy you a copy of Blood, Sweat and Pixels (coming out in just under two months). I'm not interested in your book Jason. I'll sign it for you... 😋
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Post by isaidlunch on Jul 8, 2017 2:57:52 GMT
Only the BSN would consider 2+ years of wasted development as something to be praised.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 8, 2017 3:01:05 GMT
Only you twist it to serve your purpose. Just like you trashing a game based on 10 min of play time. I played the ten hours - stop twisting my words to serve your purpose please. I'm using your own words bud. Haven't you only played the initial 10 hour trial? It didn't take me longer than 10 minutes let alone 10 hours to realize Ryder has all the charisma and likeability of a wet paper bag. Come to think of it, he/she would ideally be wearing the paper bag as well. That implies you didn't even bother with the whole 10.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jul 8, 2017 3:02:04 GMT
Only the BSN would consider 2+ years of wasted development as something to be praised. ... what? Who is doing that?
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Post by suikoden on Jul 8, 2017 3:08:30 GMT
I played the ten hours - stop twisting my words to serve your purpose please. I'm using your own words bud. It didn't take me longer than 10 minutes let alone 10 hours to realize Ryder has all the charisma and likeability of a wet paper bag. Come to think of it, he/she would ideally be wearing the paper bag as well. That implies you didn't even bother with the whole 10. I still played the ten hours - my early opinions, however, did not change. Wanted to get my 5$ worth. I could see how my post could be misinterpreted though.
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jul 8, 2017 3:11:32 GMT
Only the BSN would consider 2+ years of wasted development as something to be praised. ... what? Who is doing that? Yeah, a little curious about that myself.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 8, 2017 3:12:24 GMT
Only the BSN would consider 2+ years of wasted development as something to be praised. ... what? Who is doing that? I'm confused too. I love the game and even I acknowledge there were development issues, the 2 years being among it.
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Post by isaidlunch on Jul 8, 2017 3:28:45 GMT
Only the BSN would consider 2+ years of wasted development as something to be praised. ... what? Who is doing that? Honestly lets put it this way for Andromeda's troubled development: Comparing it with Inquisition. They had less time (alot less time I think but then I cannot be entirely sure), less than half the money, all the problems of Inquisition faced in terms of recreating all the assets for Frostbite, all the while having to create a game very similar to Inquisition in terms of size and RPGness, created by sort of a rookie studio releasing their first major game, and on top of that they had to improve on all of Inquisition's problems in terms of quest design and world cohesion or else there likely would be a huge angry mob with pitchforks. I have said it before, I will say it again. Even if this game is *just* a 70 to you, that in itself is a huge accomplishment. and everyone who upvoted him Getting a 70 score for a game that took 5 years is nothing to be praised. They had 5 years of development, which they mostly wasted, then they tried to make an "open-world" game with the last one and half years instead of going back to the ME2/ME3 formula that they knew worked. The end result is a game that released with massive quality issues, probably the worst scores and reception Bioware has ever gotten, and may have killed the franchise. That is not an accomplishment at all.
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Monica21
N3
Chaotic Good
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 8, 2017 3:31:50 GMT
I think Inquisition is the better game, but not so much better that it should get 89 on MC while MEA gets 70. Almost a 20 pt difference? What are these reviewers smoking? If DAI is 89 then I think MEA is 80. Or maybe more accurately for me, DAI is 80 and MEA is 70. Maybe bump up a few pts for animation fixes. I think Inquisition is a better game, but only because of a few technicalities. Overall, it was better produced and had fewer bugs and glitches at launch. It definitely felt bloated and I couldn't get through a second playthrough. I'm also not a fan of the open world thing Bioware is leaning into. And for those reasons, and because you had get the planets to 100% if you wanted to do your job as a Pathfinder (even though the game didn't require it) going to five planets didn't feel like a chore. Having 10 map areas open up after Haven that you didn't have to go to did feel like a chore. Overall, I much preferred the direction and story of Andromeda over Inquisition, and I hope that the sequel gets more attention and a tighter story, because I think there's a lot of potential.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 8, 2017 3:48:14 GMT
Only the BSN would consider 2+ years of wasted development as something to be praised. "Only the BSN" doesn't mean anything. You are part of the BSN, it's not homogenous.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 8, 2017 3:56:40 GMT
... what? Who is doing that? Honestly lets put it this way for Andromeda's troubled development: Comparing it with Inquisition. They had less time (alot less time I think but then I cannot be entirely sure), less than half the money, all the problems of Inquisition faced in terms of recreating all the assets for Frostbite, all the while having to create a game very similar to Inquisition in terms of size and RPGness, created by sort of a rookie studio releasing their first major game, and on top of that they had to improve on all of Inquisition's problems in terms of quest design and world cohesion or else there likely would be a huge angry mob with pitchforks. I have said it before, I will say it again. Even if this game is *just* a 70 to you, that in itself is a huge accomplishment. and everyone who upvoted him Getting a 70 score for a game that took 5 years is nothing to be praised. They had 5 years of development, which they mostly wasted, then they tried to make an "open-world" game with the last one and half years instead of going back to the ME2/ME3 formula that they knew worked. The end result is a game that released with massive quality issues, probably the worst scores and reception Bioware has ever gotten, and may have killed the franchise. That is not an accomplishment at all. strawman. You should know by my other posts...and if you don't here it is AGAIN....the game we know as MEA didn't have 5 years of development...it had eighteen months. Sure maybe they should be blasted for 'wasting' three years of development time...but i prefer to applaud them for their willingness to experiment. Maybe this is glass half full versus half empty but how many game companies actually experiment...see what they are doing is not working...and correct. As far as the score is concerned it says so much about bioware and their work ethic that their worse game ever only has a seventy rating. In my book that means they have never made an unsuccessful game. Critically speaking. And they haven't made a game I've disliked.
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
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Post by kino on Jul 8, 2017 4:01:00 GMT
strawman. You should know by my other posts...and if you don't here it is AGAIN....the game we know as MEA didn't have 5 years of development...it had eighteen months. Sure maybe they should be blasted for 'wasting' three years of development time...but i prefer to applaud them for their willingness to experiment. Maybe this is glass half full versus half empty but how many game companies actually experiment...see what they are doing is not working...and correct. As far as the score is concerned it says so much about bioware and their work ethic that their worse game ever only has a seventy rating. In my book that means they have never made an unsuccessful game. Critically speaking. And they haven't made a game I've disliked. Exactly. I read it as praising the dev team for getting their shit together and putting out a game of this size in 18 months. That's an accomplishment. And not falling back on the old and tired methodology of previous games? That's definitely worthy of praise.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jul 8, 2017 4:09:25 GMT
I think Inquisition is the better game, but not so much better that it should get 89 on MC while MEA gets 70. Almost a 20 pt difference? What are these reviewers smoking? If DAI is 89 then I think MEA is 80. Or maybe more accurately for me, DAI is 80 and MEA is 70. Maybe bump up a few pts for animation fixes. I think Inquisition is a better game, but only because of a few technicalities. Overall, it was better produced and had fewer bugs and glitches at launch. It definitely felt bloated and I couldn't get through a second playthrough. I'm also not a fan of the open world thing Bioware is leaning into. And for those reasons, and because you had get the planets to 100% if you wanted to do your job as a Pathfinder (even though the game didn't require it) going to five planets didn't feel like a chore. Having 10 map areas open up after Haven that you didn't have to go to did feel like a chore. Overall, I much preferred the direction and story of Andromeda over Inquisition, and I hope that the sequel gets more attention and a tighter story, because I think there's a lot of potential. damn straight. You know it will get better. The developers have cut their teeth on Frostbite and much of the assets are already there. Going forward, to me, at least, it's only going to get great again. Because each misstep is followed by a correction. It's not ignored, it's addressed. Sometimes, the execution is off, but there is a learning process and a re-learning process. It almost comes off that people think BioWare is incapable of making a great product. Inquisition + DLC = GOTY. Mass Effect 3, not this BioWare's problem. It's just EA sucks because they're reputation has several years of being sucky. BioWare is the studio not the publisher and by the way, EA throws the BioWare name around on a lot of products. To me, BioWare is Edmonton, Montreal and Austin. Not EA Austria. Not EA friggin' anywhere else. DICE is the creator of the Frostbite engine, not BioWare. BioWare has had to adapt that beast into an RPG machine and the progress is pretty freaking amazing with freaking amazing blunders. BioWare doesn't ignore mistakes it makes, but it can't sometimes come up with the best solution because someone blew it in the chain of command. That's my perspective.
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