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Post by iteron_MkV on Jul 6, 2017 4:01:15 GMT
Except the headshot bonus is additive with base headshot damage while the debuff multiplies all damage. The hurricane also applies it fully near instantly. Anything big enough to benefit from weak point damage doesn't need accuracy. As you say mooks die too fast anyways and 6b is more of a mook killer. exactly, mooks die so fast anyway so why is there a need to debuff? the hurricane benefits better with 6B(as with 99.9% of the weapons) 20% weak point damage 25% accuracy 25% stability Tell us, oh great theorycrafter, what is the 0.1% weapon that is better with 6a if not the Hurricane or Shadow?
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Post by vegasflash on Jul 6, 2017 4:05:08 GMT
exactly, mooks die so fast anyway so why is there a need to debuff? the hurricane benefits better with 6B(as with 99.9% of the weapons) 20% weak point damage 25% accuracy 25% stability Tell us, oh great theorycrafter, what is the 0.1% weapon that is better with 6a if not the Hurricane or Shadow? thank you for admitting that you suck at headshots i mean sure, 6A would probably be slightly better than 6B w/ the shadow or PAW against outlaw ONLY, in that specific context only. The other 90%, not so much kett/remnant are squishy, no debuffs necessary
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Post by crashsuit on Jul 6, 2017 5:31:49 GMT
I like Flamethrower and Invasion because they let me assist my way to the top of the scoreboard without having to do a lot of work. they are better off at level 1 while you invest your other points somewhere else more useful overload and shield boost at level 6 is VERY VERY useful I was half kidding but on the Operator I leave Overload at 1 and max everything else. Maybe it's just weak pugs in pugland but Invasion legit steals me more kills/points each game than I expect it to.
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Post by treoir on Jul 6, 2017 5:36:12 GMT
Did someone call for a retard? I suppose that means I should speak up...
So, anyways, skills which debuff, if you used them only for their debuffs and ignored their other aspects, would be pretty useless compared to how they should really work.
For example: flamethrower builds for turian agent should be spec'd for damage and used from cloak for additional multipler, while flamethrower builds for krogan merc should be spec'd to reduce damage to help survive crowds. But, also, flamethrower primes (most debuffs prime). But, also, using flamethrower on red health bars seems silly - you can mostly save it for yellow health bars.
Similarly, use invasion on tough targets - they are going to survive long enough anyways that there will be time for it to propagate. It's not much use in waves 1 and 2, but those waves are just warmup.
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Post by vegasflash on Jul 6, 2017 5:48:33 GMT
they are better off at level 1 while you invest your other points somewhere else more useful overload and shield boost at level 6 is VERY VERY useful I was half kidding but on the Operator I leave Overload at 1 and max everything else. Maybe it's just weak pugs in pugland but Invasion legit steals me more kills/points each game than I expect it to. stealing kills doesn't mean shit in terms of actual real DPS in a real game where all 4 players are skilled using good weapons, it's a fast paced/run n gun/no camping killing machine environment. It would be counter productive trying to use that slow ass floaty animation to debuff the people who like "invasion" are the same morons who play outlaws every fucking match. Outlaw are the tankiest faction in the game, kett/remnant are squishy
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Post by vegasflash on Jul 6, 2017 5:51:26 GMT
Did someone call for a retard? I suppose that means I should speak up... So, anyways, skills which debuff, if you used them only for their debuffs and ignored their other aspects, would be pretty useless compared to how they should really work. For example: flamethrower builds for turian agent should be spec'd for damage and used from cloak for additional multipler, while flamethrower builds for krogan merc should be spec'd to reduce damage to help survive crowds. But, also, flamethrower primes (most debuffs prime). But, also, using flamethrower on red health bars seems silly - you can mostly save it for yellow health bars. Similarly, use invasion on tough targets - they are going to survive long enough anyways that there will be time for it to propagate. It's not much use in waves 1 and 2, but those waves are just warmup. what tough targets do you speak of? fiends are rare and so are hydras berserkers armor was nerfed -20% an overwhelming majority of enemies are squishy especially remnant and kett. even then, good weapons+skilled players trivializes any stupid debuffing. Keep in mind, using a debuff power takes away other useful perks. Overload and shield boost at level 6 is PRETty FUCKING USEFUL, on top of max fitness/max passives this isn't me3 where it's boss spam
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Post by crashsuit on Jul 6, 2017 6:12:26 GMT
I was half kidding but on the Operator I leave Overload at 1 and max everything else. Maybe it's just weak pugs in pugland but Invasion legit steals me more kills/points each game than I expect it to. stealing kills doesn't mean shit in terms of actual real DPS in a real game where all 4 players are skilled using good weapons, it's a fast paced/run n gun/no camping killing machine environment. It would be counter productive trying to use that slow ass floaty animation to debuff the people who like "invasion" are the same morons who play outlaws every fucking match. Outlaw are the tankiest faction in the game, kett/remnant are squishy Yeah, I get everything you're saying, but we're having two different conversations. You're having some kind of serious talk about DPS, TTK, and whatever, and I only came in to joke about using Overload to sleaze my way to top score with minimal effort. I'm not here to git gud, I just showed up to siphon off some of those sweet juicy uBSN approval points.
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Post by N7Mith on Jul 6, 2017 6:54:07 GMT
I was half kidding but on the Operator I leave Overload at 1 and max everything else. Maybe it's just weak pugs in pugland but Invasion legit steals me more kills/points each game than I expect it to. stealing kills doesn't mean shit in terms of actual real DPS in a real game where all 4 players are skilled using good weapons, it's a fast paced/run n gun/no camping killing machine environment. It would be counter productive trying to use that slow ass floaty animation to debuff the people who like "invasion" are the same morons who play outlaws every fucking match. Outlaw are the tankiest faction in the game, kett/remnant are squishy No idea where you got this delusion from, but you're the only one to say invasion sucks. Yet you're not the only one that doesn't play outlaws every game. So what we have here is a case of conflicting facts. And if we're gonna talk the real high level play; spawn controlling is harder than in me3, but can still be done. Stalling for 0.5 sec to buff all damage to the group is a small price to pay for cutting down the slaughter of said group from 10 sec to 7. That is 2.5 seconds profit. You don't have to use it whenever it's ready, but on groups with heavy enemies it's always a time saver. Even you could see that if you bothered to actually do a little math. Specced for explosion it cuts it down even more, because the last 15% of dmg is done for you. That's 1/7th of all the time you kill mooks saved. Unless you're the boring player that doesn't use anything other than the best 2 or 3 weapons. And if it's really about saving points then your passives stop being useful at 5 and 4. Sure you can take 40% dmg to shield or armor, but 30 (or even 40) against both is preferable for anyone with a brain, so 4 and 4 is good enough.
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Post by vegasflash on Jul 6, 2017 7:02:37 GMT
stealing kills doesn't mean shit in terms of actual real DPS in a real game where all 4 players are skilled using good weapons, it's a fast paced/run n gun/no camping killing machine environment. It would be counter productive trying to use that slow ass floaty animation to debuff the people who like "invasion" are the same morons who play outlaws every fucking match. Outlaw are the tankiest faction in the game, kett/remnant are squishy No idea where you got this delusion from, but you're the only one to say invasion sucks. Yet you're not the only one that doesn't play outlaws every game. So what we have here is a case of conflicting facts. And if we're gonna talk the real high level play; spawn controlling is harder than in me3, but can still be done. Stalling for 0.5 sec to buff all damage to the group is a small price to pay for cutting down the slaughter of said group from 10 sec to 7. That is 2.5 seconds profit. You don't have to use it whenever it's ready, but on groups with heavy enemies it's always a time saver. Even you could see that if you bothered to actually do a little math. Specced for explosion it cuts it down even more, because the last 15% of dmg is done for you. That's 1/7th of all the time you kill mooks saved. Unless you're the boring player that doesn't use anything other than the best 2 or 3 weapons. And if it's really about saving points then your passives stop being useful at 5 and 4. Sure you can take 40% dmg to shield or armor, but 30 (or even 40) against both is preferable for anyone with a brain, so 4 and 4 is good enough. lmfao this post is a clear indication you havn't played with a legit team. I can sense you are a zero/outlaw camper because your idiotic strategy works in that specific faction/small map 4 players, high level play, invasion FUCKING sucks and is counter productive and useless. do you ever play in a team full of actual good players? Where everyone is using decent boosters, good weapons, and strong kits? Where the actual match is SUPER fast paced? where everyone is a killing machine? Where NOBODY is camping? Where strategy isn't needed because NOBODY sucks? 1. aggro is distributed which means there's a 1/4 chance you will encounter a hydra or a berserker(enemies that benefit invasion the most). In a real game, NOBODY IS camping, EVERYONE is running around in erratic patterns, running and gunning, killing everything as fast as possible. Even then, with good weapons, berserkers/hydras are AMONG the easiest bosses to kill, No DEBUFF necessary. 2. Kett/Remnant are SQUISHY, Debuffs aren't NEEDED. The only situation where invasion will sort of matter is a SMALL MAP+outlaw such as zero/outlaw. So 2/3 of the faction, invasion isn't NEEDED 3. a skilled team/skilled player/w/ good weapons/good boosters/etc trivializes debuffing and is counter productive INVASION FUCKING SUCKS, DO NOT PUT POINTS ON IT. Put overload at 6 and shield boost at 6 and max out your fitness/passives. with my turian agend, i skip flamethrower, it's fucking useless. Level 1 is enough
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Post by N7Mith on Jul 6, 2017 7:49:13 GMT
I never camp, and yes I play regularly with a good team. We always cycly maps and enemies, by lack of a working randomizer. And we never play without boosters. But you've been away a long time if you say that berzerkers and hydras are the easiest bosses. Flaks are killers now, not just for our kits. With everyone spread out it takes a good 6 seconds to kill b's, provided you're not interrupted by anything else. Which only happens once a match. Not being needed and being useless are two seperate things. You are both, invasion is only the first.
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Post by xujparisipc on Jul 6, 2017 8:01:37 GMT
If we don't need debufs yet, it's not same as they are bad.
If enemies would be stronger then 20% debuf would be much better than 1 shot.
It's not debufs to blame, but the lack of need of using choke points and team work.
I'm sure eveyrone wish they would have recon mine from me3mp. Wouldn't suck at all even without massive explosion.
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Post by vegasflash on Jul 6, 2017 8:14:40 GMT
I never camp, and yes I play regularly with a good team. We always cycly maps and enemies, by lack of a working randomizer. And we never play without boosters. But you've been away a long time if you say that berzerkers and hydras are the easiest bosses. Flaks are killers now, not just for our kits. With everyone spread out it takes a good 6 seconds to kill b's, provided you're not interrupted by anything else. Which only happens once a match. Not being needed and being useless are two seperate things. You are both, invasion is only the first. you're right i take back what i said that it's not entirely useless. Small MAP+outlaw+camping, it has its benefits I also hate to be a hypocrite but i too use invasion on my salarian operator. The thing is, i don't need to put points on it25% debuff at rank 1 is enough, so if i play outlaw i will definitely use that 25% rank 1 debuff on hydras/berserkers and on kett the fiends i find a bigger difference in my gameplay when i stun a crapload of enemies with my rank 6 overload and to quickly heal myself entirely with my rank 6 shield boost. when platinum begins, that 25% debuff at rank 1 will have more situational uses since i'm guessing that platinum has tankier enemies
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Post by ramsen on Jul 6, 2017 8:47:11 GMT
Except the headshot bonus is additive with base headshot damage while the debuff multiplies all damage. The hurricane also applies it fully near instantly. Anything big enough to benefit from weak point damage doesn't need accuracy. As you say mooks die too fast anyways and 6b is more of a mook killer. exactly, mooks die so fast anyway so why is there a need to debuff? the hurricane benefits better with 6B(as with 99.9% of the weapons) 20% weak point damage 25% accuracy 25% stability I thought it was clear from my post. The debuff isn't for mooks as they die fast enough with or without rank 6 munitions (either one). Unless you are reaching a OHK breakpoint with the +20% weakpoint damage it's not even worth picking up if you are tight on points. For anything tougher the debuff, with the right weapon, is much better.
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Post by vegasflash on Jul 6, 2017 8:49:39 GMT
the 25% stability/25% accuracy/20% weak point benefits the hurricane more than the -2% debuff per bullet maxing at 24%
but yes the PAW/shadow, it's a no brainer 6A would be a better option than 6B. My female human soldier has 6A using my PAW X. HOwever, if if you pick a munitions character that doesn't have an extra gender(turian soldier for example), by picking 6A on munitions training, you are limiting yourself to VERY specific weapons when 6B benefits the other 95% of weapons
hell, even my level 1 invasion(at 25%) the debuff isn't even noticeable, imagine having 24% debuff maxed out on 6A, it's won't even be noticeable
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 10:49:33 GMT
Funny how you keep talking about "high-level" gameplay with "legit people" in "a real game" like that's the only thing that matters. With leet people you can rush through Gold with bronze weapons and no consumables and not give a fuck about anything the game throws at you. But that's not how most games work, especially when pugging.
Of course elite players don't need any debuffs, but that's only the top two percent of all MEAMP players. And no game developer balances his game around the top two percent. So any discussion about whether debuffs are useless or not is more or less futile.
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Post by sergethegreat on Jul 6, 2017 12:05:23 GMT
Cryo Beam with properly allocated points is definitely a good debuff.
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Post by lennybusker on Jul 6, 2017 12:13:22 GMT
Cryo Beam with properly allocated points is definitely a good debuff. Cryo Beam with properly allocated points is murdering packs of people with Snap Freeze- the debuff is simply an accessory.
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Post by Mobius Y on Jul 6, 2017 13:38:49 GMT
Ya'll really should cease taking all this bait.
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Post by Gya on Jul 6, 2017 15:30:03 GMT
i will soon post the first ever solo platinum run with Turian Agent(no flamethrower build) butt y?
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jul 6, 2017 15:37:42 GMT
Subtle.
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Post by iteron_MkV on Jul 6, 2017 15:45:56 GMT
the 25% stability/25% accuracy/20% weak point benefits the hurricane more than the -2% debuff per bullet maxing at 24% You must really suck at headshots if you need that 25% stability/25% accuracy. Man, I thought I was conversing with a pro.
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Post by treoir on Jul 6, 2017 16:58:13 GMT
Did someone call for a retard? I suppose that means I should speak up... So, anyways, skills which debuff, if you used them only for their debuffs and ignored their other aspects, would be pretty useless compared to how they should really work. For example: flamethrower builds for turian agent should be spec'd for damage and used from cloak for additional multipler, while flamethrower builds for krogan merc should be spec'd to reduce damage to help survive crowds. But, also, flamethrower primes (most debuffs prime). But, also, using flamethrower on red health bars seems silly - you can mostly save it for yellow health bars. Similarly, use invasion on tough targets - they are going to survive long enough anyways that there will be time for it to propagate. It's not much use in waves 1 and 2, but those waves are just warmup. what tough targets do you speak of? fiends are rare and so are hydras berserkers armor was nerfed -20% ... How where you possibly able to guess that I was talking about fiends and hydras. Also, ... have you downloaded today's patch, yet?
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