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Post by gib on Jul 16, 2017 19:15:42 GMT
Title.
What are the cream of the crop in each tier?
I've read plenty about the topic and am clued up as to the effects of each and issues when priming. I am just wondering from your experience if you've found a particular weapon shines in each category.
Let's hear it!
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Post by killabkilledb on Jul 16, 2017 19:19:01 GMT
Siphon. Gimme dat health back. With a character that has some sort of shield restoration this is pretty good. Dhan/Hurricane siphon on Asari adept. Draining field restores shields and weapon restores health.
Once they fix priming its going to make my duelist more viable on platinum... Kinetics too.
Anything with saving barrier can also benefit from a weapon restoring health...
A turian soldier with tons of DR, especially at low health firing a hurricane siphon...woo baby...
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Post by gib on Jul 16, 2017 19:37:49 GMT
Thanks.
I also am a fan of siphon (I have shadow (doesn't prime) and cyclone (does prime).
I assume snipers and some accurate weapons would be great for concussive variants?
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Post by RonnieBlastoff on Jul 16, 2017 19:39:48 GMT
There isn't one really, variants are more favored to characters than weapons. Siphon is great for characters that have DR or Shield boost. Its also usefull in shotgun form for vanguards and close range. Bulwark is great for same things siphons are, (if it even stacks with more DR) but offers slightly more tankyness over recovery. Concussive, although complete trash because of off host headshots, imo is the most beautiful of them all. If your a great shot, you turn everything you kill with a headshot into a biotic explosion. If I had to choose though, I always go... Hurricane- siphon, concussive Venom- All of them.... venom still sucks, but its really great at priming, and with siphon, also really great at sucking health. Yes everything in the multi explosion gives you health. Soned- Siphon, bulwark *Black Widow- Concussive, bulwark *Dahn- Concussive, Bulwark Sandstorm- Concussive P.A.W. - Siphon, concussive Falcon- All Revenant- Bulwark.... and only bulwark... M25Hornet- Concussive only. Scorpion- Concussive, siphon Talon- Concussive, siphon Inferno- All Valiant- Concussive, siphon Naladen- All Indra- concussive, siphon Shadow- Concussive, siphon Vanquisher- Concussive, bulwark Pirahna- Siphon Hesh- Siphon Reegar- All * forgot to mention I have yet to have experience with heavy shot weapons and siphon (neither I nor my buddy with MEA have them) well I have ishray... but the thought of playing a game with that weapon.... bioware plz....)
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Post by f3rociouspanda on Jul 16, 2017 19:49:16 GMT
Does anyone else feel like concussive weapons are trash? I just sniped for a whole game and didn't get a single explosion that affected another enemy, and I always aim for the head
Maybe it's more of a pc thing?
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Post by Scathane on Jul 16, 2017 19:52:50 GMT
I'm on pc and have had quite some splosions with even the Incisor Concussive, so maybe. As for preference: Siphon...
Edit: Siphoned Disciple, Ruzad and Reegar all work fine for me. Haven't tried much else yet...
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Post by RonnieBlastoff on Jul 16, 2017 20:08:23 GMT
Does anyone else feel like concussive weapons are trash? I just sniped for a whole game and didn't get a single explosion that affected another enemy, and I always aim for the head Maybe it's more of a pc thing? Offhost headshots. You have to kill them with the headshot for the explosion. The orange " X" when the enemy dies. And the explosion is really really brief, like a 10/th of a second but you can hear it if you listen. (past all the dam Destroyer turrets and berserker screams....). It sounds different than any other explosion so you'll know it if you hear it. If I had means to post a video or picture I'd show you. Oldmanproblems...
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Post by treoir on Jul 16, 2017 20:44:30 GMT
The radius on the explosion seems rather small. It should matter when the enemies are so packed together that they are standing on top of each other, but that seems rare (and landing a headshot when you are taking that kind of damage seems rare). Also, you really need to get the weapon to rank X for full damage.
So, anyways, maybe later on, when lots of people have rank x concussive weapons we'll be hearing about how good they are. Right now, because of how broad the weapon pool is, we haven't really had a chance to find the good examples, and with how game mechanics work they aren't really worth using most of the time. They're "better than nothing" just "not really great".
(Also, I'm still seeing outrageous bugs, like completing a gold mission with full team extracted and being 12k credits short of being able to buy one expert pack. Or, going a full mission and only landing kills on bosses because everything else was dead when I pulled the trigger. Or, ... other garbage ... So, anyways, maybe it's really that the concussive weapons are great and we're just not seeing that because of bugs. The infamous off-host weakpoint issue being one obvious example.)
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Post by killabkilledb on Jul 16, 2017 21:36:28 GMT
There isn't one really, variants are more favored to characters than weapons. Siphon is great for characters that have DR or Shield boost. Its also usefull in shotgun form for vanguards and close range. Bulwark is great for same things siphons are, (if it even stacks with more DR) but offers slightly more tankyness over recovery. Concussive, although complete trash because of off host headshots, imo is the most beautiful of them all. If your a great shot, you turn everything you kill with a headshot into a biotic explosion. If I had to choose though, I always go... Hurricane- siphon, concussive Venom- All of them.... venom still sucks, but its really great at priming, and with siphon, also really great at sucking health. Yes everything in the multi explosion gives you health. Soned- Siphon, bulwark *Black Widow- Concussive, bulwark *Dahn- Concussive, Bulwark Sandstorm- Concussive P.A.W. - Siphon, concussive Falcon- All Revenant- Bulwark.... and only bulwark... M25Hornet- Concussive only. Scorpion- Concussive, siphon Talon- Concussive, siphon Inferno- All Valiant- Concussive, siphon Naladen- All Indra- concussive, siphon Shadow- Concussive, siphon Vanquisher- Concussive, bulwark Pirahna- Siphon Hesh- Siphon Reegar- All * forgot to mention I have yet to have experience with heavy shot weapons and siphon (neither I nor my buddy with MEA have them) well I have ishray... but the thought of playing a game with that weapon.... bioware plz....) Tell me more about this venom priming business...
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Post by gib on Jul 16, 2017 21:51:57 GMT
Just a side note; in case it wasn't clear I'm leaning towards discussion on weapons that perform well in the respective effects, rather than discussing the merits of concussive vs siphon vs bulwark.
This isn't pointed at anyone, more a note to myself after I read the op and considered my wording might not be clear to all.
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Post by misguidedworm7 on Jul 16, 2017 22:30:31 GMT
Just a side note; in case it wasn't clear I'm leaning towards discussion on weapons that perform well in the respective effects, rather than discussing the merits of concussive vs siphon vs bulwark. This isn't pointed at anyone, more a note to myself after I read the op and considered my wording might not be clear to all. Here is the issue, the basic weapon's effectiveness matters far more than the variant. And the character you are sticking it on matters more for the variant than the weapon it's one. And ammo use matters. There are basic versions that are better than their variants, and there are variants that are nonsensical. As a rule, pistols and sniper rifles base versions prime better, and so are worth considering over their variants when you are using ammo to prime opponents. This is also true for some shotguns. Venom, Reegar, crusader. The base versions of all assault rifles, and the Dhan are never worth using over their variant. The dahn especially so given that it's base version has worse priming than it's variants. The Siphon variant is always very useful, especially so on any weapon that can kill multiple opponents quickly. This is almost always the best version. Getting 2/3 of your health back reliably doubles your durability in most cases. There are also specific enemies that become walking health dispensers. It has increased synergy with weapon buffs, damage reduction, and other forms of regeneration. The bulwark variant is only worth considering on characters with little to no base damage reduction, low health, high shield and team reliance. Compared to siphon this version does far less to help your survival. It is not bad per say, it just does not help you much in ideal circumstance, and gives little to no advantage at all when it is most important. The Concussive variant is okay on guns that have higher than average headshot reliance against ground based infantry, it does not work against large enemies who force units to be outside of the aoe through their shear size, and fliers that are seldom close enough together to matter. It is decent on gold and below, but platinum enemies very rarely group up enough to matter other than dog swarms. TLDR Siphon is king, Concussive is niche, and bulwark is a pretender.
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Red Comet 313
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Post by Red Comet 313 on Jul 16, 2017 22:56:57 GMT
Siphonizer (Siphon Equalizer) > Everything. Health + infinite ammo.
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Post by RonnieBlastoff on Jul 16, 2017 23:03:58 GMT
Just a side note; in case it wasn't clear I'm leaning towards discussion on weapons that perform well in the respective effects, rather than discussing the merits of concussive vs siphon vs bulwark. This isn't pointed at anyone, more a note to myself after I read the op and considered my wording might not be clear to all. Here is the issue, the basic weapon's effectiveness matters far more than the variant. And the character you are sticking it on matters more for the variant than the weapon it's one. And ammo use matters. There are basic versions that are better than their variants, and there are variants that are nonsensical. As a rule, pistols and sniper rifles base versions prime better, and so are worth considering over their variants when you are using ammo to prime opponents. This is also true for some shotguns. Venom, Reegar, crusader. The base versions of all assault rifles, and the Dhan are never worth using over their variant. The dahn especially so given that it's base version has worse priming than it's variants. The Siphon variant is always very useful, especially so on any weapon that can kill multiple opponents quickly. This is almost always the best version. Getting 2/3 of your health back reliably doubles your durability in most cases. There are also specific enemies that become walking health dispensers. It has increased synergy with weapon buffs, damage reduction, and other forms of regeneration. The bulwark variant is only worth considering on characters with little to no base damage reduction, low health, high shield and team reliance. Compared to siphon this version does far less to help your survival. It is not bad per say, it just does not help you much in ideal circumstance, and gives little to no advantage at all when it is most important. The Concussive variant is okay on guns that have higher than average headshot reliance against ground based infantry, it does not work against large enemies who force units to be outside of the aoe through their shear size, and fliers that are seldom close enough together to matter. It is decent on gold and below, but platinum enemies very rarely group up enough to matter other than dog swarms. TLDR Siphon is king, Concussive is niche, and bulwark is a pretender. I disagree on these 2 points. Atm I "hope" that the current situation with variants not priming is accidental and not biowares lazy "as intended." And hopefully once its fixed, variants always will be better than a vanilla. Even in the situation now, variants are only worse than vanilla if your using a "priming" weapon, (snipers don't prime...and if your priming with a SR you are killing to slowly) On shotguns they are always better since the prime ammo is the same (cept dahn, but again, you should not be priming on dahn, or any shotgun really) And yes concussion shot works VERY well vs large enemies, only enemy I would say fits your claim is a fiend. Turrets are 100% weakpoints, Orb is 100% weakpoint. Hydra is actually not so large other enemies can't get caught in explosion of (7.5m?) which is VERY large. Try a turian soldier with a targeting VI build (more weakpoint damage for the explosion) you turn every mook into a biotic grenade. Now... only if venom wasn't so slow you could use concussion on venom and just blow everything away.... :srs:
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Post by misguidedworm7 on Jul 17, 2017 0:28:52 GMT
There are basic versions that are better than their variants, and there are variants that are nonsensical. As a rule, pistols and sniper rifles base versions prime better, and so are worth considering over their variants when you are using ammo to prime opponents. This is also true for some shotguns. Venom, Reegar, crusader. The base versions of all assault rifles, and the Dhan are never worth using over their variant. The dahn especially so given that it's base version has worse priming than it's variants. The Concussive variant is okay on guns that have higher than average headshot reliance against ground based infantry, it does not work WELL against large enemies who force units to be outside of the aoe through their shear size, and fliers that are seldom close enough together to matter. It is decent on gold and below, but platinum enemies very rarely group up enough to matter other than dog swarms. I disagree on these 2 points. Atm I "hope" that the current situation with variants not priming is accidental and not biowares lazy "as intended." And hopefully once its fixed, variants always will be better than a vanilla. Even in the situation now, variants are only worse than vanilla if your using a "priming" weapon, (snipers don't prime...and if your priming with a SR you are killing to slowly) On shotguns they are always better since the prime ammo is the same (cept dahn, but again, you should not be priming on dahn, or any shotgun really) And yes concussion shot works VERY well vs large enemies, only enemy I would say fits your claim is a fiend. Turrets are 100% weakpoints, Orb is 100% weakpoint. Hydra is actually not so large other enemies can't get caught in explosion of (7.5m?) which is VERY large. Try a turian soldier with a targeting VI build (more weakpoint damage for the explosion) you turn every mook into a biotic grenade. Now... only if venom wasn't so slow you could use concussion on venom and just blow everything away.... :srs: 1. Disagreeing with my point because you hope it will be changed later is ridiculous. You can't say the sandstorm is a good assault rifle because it might get buffed in the future, that is STUPIDITY. As it is right now, there are vanilla guns that are worth taking over their variants because they prime better if you want to use special ammo. You can't disagree with that statement of fact as it is currently. 2 My second point is debatable, But getting enough enemies clustered into a limited area gets harder when the enemies take up more space, you can fit more humanoids into a given space than hydras, meaning it is easier to get multiple small enemies into a given area than large ones. The turrets on destroyers are a special case, because they always return on investment. However the issue I find with them is the rest of the faction is probably the least consistent for this upgrade. Observers are rarely clustered together, breachers have no weakpoint to detonate, assemblers are probably the least consistent thing to headshot, and nullifiers heads can be protected from non piercing weapons frontally. I just can't see this upgrade pulling it's weight consistently enough for me to justify over healing, which destroyers also magnify to a massive extent (8x the healing). The ascendant orb I am pretty sure doesn't actually damage the ascendant in question when it goes off, meaning it does not always deal damage. Unless I am wrong on that particular interaction. 3,4 Those last two things confuse me First the headshot bonus doesn't amplify the death explosion as far as I'm aware, second the venom, as well as the other explosive weapons have no concussive version, because they "don't get headshots".
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Post by pheabus2005 on Jul 17, 2017 1:16:03 GMT
Imo Siphon is the way to go on most weapons. Being able to actively regen your health is invaluable, also as killa mentioned, using Siphon weapon on an energy drain char makes Platnum pretty much a faceroll provided that you don't get those w6 uploads on certain map spots.
Bulwark's DR is simply not enough, and for that you have to stick with teammates, which kinda wastes your chars' high mobility in this game, then again YMMV depends on playstyles, of course. I just don't think that worth it.
And Concussive? What a joke. It may look good on paper but the enemies' high mobility makes headshot kills extremely hard to achieve consistently even if you are on host, and there's absolutely no reason to pick it off-host, the netcode of this game simply denies you that ability.
Disclaimer: based on 100+ Plat runs experience, not making assumptions.
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Post by treoir on Jul 17, 2017 2:56:07 GMT
Bulwark seems like it would be good on a character with innate regeneration and a team running a sniper pit.
So basically that means a krogan sniper with berzerker. But, even there, rage triggers rarely enough that it hardly seems worthwhile.
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Post by iteron_MkV on Jul 17, 2017 4:58:24 GMT
Does anyone else feel like concussive weapons are trash? I just sniped for a whole game and didn't get a single explosion that affected another enemy, and I always aim for the head Maybe it's more of a pc thing? When I first read about concussive weapons I thought it would be really awesome. Then I thought about it for a moment and realized I'd likely just be setting of cool explosions that do nothing. And yeah, that's how it ended up.
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Post by Spectr61 on Jul 17, 2017 5:40:31 GMT
Cyclone concussive (V) seems get the job done.
Though the explosions from a killing headshot, though good, are far less than great.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 17, 2017 8:24:43 GMT
Does anyone else feel like concussive weapons are trash? I just sniped for a whole game and didn't get a single explosion that affected another enemy, and I always aim for the head Maybe it's more of a pc thing? When I first read about concussive weapons I thought it would be really awesome. Then I thought about it for a moment and realized I'd likely just be setting of cool explosions that do nothing. And yeah, that's how it ended up. Pretty much. It's not really often you catch a bunch humping each other. And when you do, you need to score a kill with the bullet. I pulled it off with the Cyclone a couple of times and maybe once there was anoother mook around to be affected. The radius is rather tiny.
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Post by jloco11 on Jul 17, 2017 14:52:01 GMT
Those lucky enough, would probably use the Hurricane Siphon with it's ability to give health back and deal out great damage (Rozerad & Shadow are also pretty good at recovering health).
Concussive is only applicable if you are host, since offhost headshots are horrible. Works even better with the headshot modifier on Apex missions.
Bulwark works at the beginning of a round if the team bunches up in a set area. But once the team is swarmed on platinum and people are bailing out of their safe spot, the buff of the gun goes to waste. On gold and lower, you don't even notice the buff if you have level XX characters who kill things so damn quickly.
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Post by gethadept on Jul 17, 2017 14:53:33 GMT
They are all stupid.
Siphon is least stupid one of three.
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Post by jadedragonmtr on Jul 17, 2017 16:31:38 GMT
A few days ago, lennybusker did a test and found that the priming perimeters on the variants were a bit different and deduced that this might be working as intended to give players a reason to pick the base weapons Over their variants . I sure hope those who are waiting for the "fix" won't be disappointed if BW ever confirms this.
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Post by dragaaan on Jul 17, 2017 16:57:52 GMT
i love my concussive vanquisher, the aoe does help a lot.
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Post by gib on Jul 17, 2017 17:30:49 GMT
Just a side note; in case it wasn't clear I'm leaning towards discussion on weapons that perform well in the respective effects, rather than discussing the merits of concussive vs siphon vs bulwark. This isn't pointed at anyone, more a note to myself after I read the op and considered my wording might not be clear to all. They are all stupid. Siphon is least stupid one of three. Sigh
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Post by nanotm on Jul 17, 2017 17:30:56 GMT
looking at the various guns in my inventory I noticed that the varients at level 1 through x have the exact same stats as a lvl x vanilla weapon its just the bonus that changes, givne this it makes no difference to your damage output if you take a lvl 1 variant gun or a lvl x variant gun into any match
so why oh why do morons kick folks out of lobbies for picking a lvl 1 variant gun ?
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