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Post by JRandall0308 on Jul 20, 2017 14:53:18 GMT
Genuinely curious: are there any other multiplayer games that expanded their loot pool as much as Mass Effect Andromeda, all at once? Obviously all games (that live long enough) expand their loot pools, but I can't recall another one that did such a big expansion as MEA.
Not looking to dredge up all the salty arguments, just looking for info. Googling for this keeps bringing up general discussions of earlier MEs, DAI, Borderlands, Diablo but not much about when and how much their loot pools increased.
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Post by Uchimura on Jul 20, 2017 14:58:30 GMT
I find those games really hard to compare to ME's style of loot.
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Post by Gileadan on Jul 20, 2017 15:02:41 GMT
I'm not sure if there is anything like ME3MP/MEAMP actually.
Games like Diablo, Borderlands or Vermintide keep their loot pool interesting by putting more or less randomly created special perks onto their loot items, so there is always the anticipation of getting something really good. ME3MP and MEAMP simply offer a huge load of different guns to "level up" with no such surprises - and therefore, no such anticipation - as you play and gather loot. It is completely linear and predictable and therefore most prone to feeling like a chore instead of excitement.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jul 20, 2017 15:05:00 GMT
To clarify I am looking for something like:
In July 2017 MEA MP increased its loot pool by X% all at once.
In XXX year (other game) increased its loot pool by Y% all at once.
I'm aware that Borderlands, Diablo, etc. have effectively infinite loot variations. So I guess I am more interested in 'traditional' loot pool games.
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Post by gethadept on Jul 20, 2017 15:10:42 GMT
MEAMP is the sole industry leader when it comes to random loot pool increase.
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Post by kalil on Jul 20, 2017 15:10:43 GMT
It is quite similar to a new raid tier in an MMO actually. As the game evolves complete huge batches of stronger items are added along with higher difficulty content where the new items help you progress. Its nothing new or special really.
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Post by Uchimura on Jul 20, 2017 15:13:22 GMT
Might be better investigating something like Call of Duty. They have weapon variants, cosmetics, rng boxes. Difference is though that they get duplicates and have a scrapping system (with very low returns) that lets you buy what you want. So they're not necessarily 'walled off' by anything if they throw a lot of money at the game. Suppose you could say the same thing here, but that could get into astronomical numbers if you're unlucky.
They also have a coop zombie mode which sucks a D in my opinion, but you can get rng boxes from doing that as well.
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Post by killabkilledb on Jul 20, 2017 15:28:06 GMT
I was just told by my COD buds that the killing floor, a FUCKING FREE GAME WITH ONLY COSMETIC LOOT, just got 6 new maps and a bunch of new characters.
What the fucking, fuck?
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Post by jloco11 on Jul 20, 2017 15:37:52 GMT
There isn't any other game, mainly because of how different ME does loot.
MEA (and ME3) have a finite pool of loot, that eventually "ends". We can max out our manifest in MEA in theory. We can get all the cards for guns & characters and that would complete the search for loot in the game aside from the 65535 boosters you can get.
Other loot oriented games have infinite combinations and repeats that you can receive. Unlike games already mentioned, when I have a Siphon Hurricane X, I am not going to get anymore Siphon Hurricane cards. But in never ending loot game, if I get the Ultra Motherfucker Gun with cool perks, I can still get that UMFG with different perks or the same perks again.
They don't triple the number of guns when new content comes out.... they usually add fractions of what they have already. MEA's variant cards, is unlike anything you'll see in loot games
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Post by ddrguy300 on Jul 20, 2017 15:54:08 GMT
It is quite similar to a new raid tier in an MMO actually. As the game evolves complete huge batches of stronger items are added along with higher difficulty content where the new items help you progress. Its nothing new or special really. Yeah, but those are measurably different with different looks/graphics and objectively better buffs or stats and depending on the game, give a different feel of sorts. 1.09 barely qualifies as new gear outside of a few colors and some new bs mechanic - same graphic, same exact fire type, same rarity. You can hardly quantify the new weapons as "new." Oxford would probably even challenge the use of the word. To OPs nicely avoided, soon to be proven point, this is about as low on the totem pole as you get in terms of passing something off as new content.
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Post by Scathane on Jul 20, 2017 16:10:17 GMT
I was just told by my COD buds that the killing floor, a FUCKING FREE GAME WITH ONLY COSMETIC LOOT, just got 6 new maps and a bunch of new characters. What the fucking, fuck? I wouldn't be surprised if smaller gaming companies are releasing extra content because of larger companies effin up...
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jul 20, 2017 16:14:24 GMT
To OPs nicely avoided, soon to be proven point, this is about as low on the totem pole as you get in terms of passing something off as new content. This isn't about 'passing something off as new content' which is why I said I wanted to avoid re-hashing the old arguments. This is about quantity pure and simple. I don't play MMOs so I don't know: maybe every time World of Warcraft does an expansion there are 1,000 new swords with pandas on them plus 500 new sexy elf costumes on them and this is X% of the total loot at time time. I am genuinely curious if the loot pool expansion in MEA was really as unprecedented as people seem to think or if it's business as usual nowadays.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Jul 20, 2017 16:32:54 GMT
To OPs nicely avoided, soon to be proven point, this is about as low on the totem pole as you get in terms of passing something off as new content. This isn't about 'passing something off as new content' which is why I said I wanted to avoid re-hashing the old arguments. This is about quantity pure and simple. I don't play MMOs so I don't know: maybe every time World of Warcraft does an expansion there are 1,000 new swords with pandas on them plus 500 new sexy elf costumes on them and this is X% of the total loot at time time. I am genuinely curious if the loot pool expansion in MEA was really as unprecedented as people seem to think or if it's business as usual nowadays. I play one mmo, though I haven't touched it in a while. But yeah, won't reopen the old argument, but I would still lay down money that it isn't defensible. Even in mmos, the drop pool is added to to accommodate the new level cap and have better gear. So you're looking at incremental increases. At best, I would argue that there's always some kind of a skinner box f-you element to the new gear added, but this game's f-you is indeed unique following 1.09.
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Post by kalil on Jul 20, 2017 17:18:51 GMT
To OPs nicely avoided, soon to be proven point, this is about as low on the totem pole as you get in terms of passing something off as new content. This isn't about 'passing something off as new content' which is why I said I wanted to avoid re-hashing the old arguments. This is about quantity pure and simple. I don't play MMOs so I don't know: maybe every time World of Warcraft does an expansion there are 1,000 new swords with pandas on them plus 500 new sexy elf costumes on them and this is X% of the total loot at time time. I am genuinely curious if the loot pool expansion in MEA was really as unprecedented as people seem to think or if it's business as usual nowadays. It is not just on a new expansion. Each expansion has a number of different raid tiers. Each time a new tier is released all your old items are completely obsolete and you start from scratch.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jul 20, 2017 17:38:59 GMT
kalil interesting, what quantity of items are we talking about? hundreds? thousands?
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Post by Uchimura on Jul 20, 2017 17:45:13 GMT
Don't think MMOs are the correct comparison either. Expansion and raid tiers are prettymuch expected and items from a tier are in a separate loot pool from everything previous.
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Post by crashsuit on Jul 20, 2017 18:01:57 GMT
There isn't any other game, mainly because of how different ME does loot. MEA (and ME3) have a finite pool of loot, that eventually "ends". We can max out our manifest in MEA in theory. We can get all the cards for guns & characters and that would complete the search for loot in the game aside from the 65535 boosters you can get. Other loot oriented games have infinite combinations and repeats that you can receive. Unlike games already mentioned, when I have a Siphon Hurricane X, I am not going to get anymore Siphon Hurricane cards. But in never ending loot game, if I get the Ultra Motherfucker Gun with cool perks, I can still get that UMFG with different perks or the same perks again. They don't triple the number of guns when new content comes out.... they usually add fractions of what they have already. MEA's variant cards, is unlike anything you'll see in loot games Whatever the limit is, it's more than 65535. I've tested this myself in another thread.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jul 20, 2017 18:12:13 GMT
Let me ask this question another way.
When other loot-based games like (whatever analogy you want) drop a bunch of new (or 'new') loot at once, do people get as salty as they did about MEAMP?
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Post by jloco11 on Jul 20, 2017 18:23:57 GMT
Let me ask this question another way. When other loot-based games like (whatever analogy you want) drop a bunch of new (or 'new') loot at once, do people get as salty as they did about MEAMP? Year 1 Destiny - Yes. When the first DLC pack came out (The Dark Below), Bungie came up with the brilliant MMO idea that your current gear will not be viable for the new content. Older gear that we spent 3 months collecting topped out at a value of say level 30. The new gear was level 32. And the DLC content had level 32 content. So all the level 30 gear, was obsolete, particularly the hardest gear in the game to get. On top of that, they allowed the exotic gear (ME's Ultra rare category) to bump up to level 32. However, you had to re-rank the items all over again. Very similar to what we're experiencing with the variant cards. We just got our URs to level 10, and now there are better versions of them and we need 30 more cards! But again, it's almost apples and oranges because the beef wasn't so much the actual loot. The beef was our prior loot was rendered less useful than new loot. So we had to get back on the RNG train and collect more stuff. Imagine if your Hurricane X now did less damage because you didn't have the Hurricane Bulwark 1. That was the beef.
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Post by angrybobh on Jul 20, 2017 18:43:23 GMT
Let me ask this question another way. When other loot-based games like (whatever analogy you want) drop a bunch of new (or 'new') loot at once, do people get as salty as they did about MEAMP? The only other online game I played for any real length was STO. They, all at once, increased the level of all items from 12 to 14 and added a sixth rarity(epic). Each ship has 22 or 23 eq slots and your character has 10 pieces of ground eq. They locked loot drops to MK 12 items only. MK 13 and 14 as well as epic quality was only achievable through their ridiculously designed crafting and update system. Needless to say, their player base was pretty salty. But they get pretty salty over there for a lot of reasons.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jul 20, 2017 19:12:44 GMT
Great, thanks for the examples!
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Post by areski on Jul 20, 2017 19:37:03 GMT
Diablo 3 essentially contracted the loot pool when it released the expansion by changing loot drops to mainly drop items you could use. Previously players had to sell items in the item store and buy items they wanted to and from other players.
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Post by spacev3gan on Jul 20, 2017 19:41:07 GMT
I think it is important to put things into perspective: the UR tier (the tier which is synonymous with manifest completion) went from 200 cards to 720 cards. That is a 360% item pool increase with just one patch. While I am aware that some games may still demand more time invested for a full manifest completion (DAIMP for instance), I don't know any whose loot pool suffered this sharp increase and this suddenly, without any notice nor anything. Also, I don't know of any case of more blatant recycling for loot pool increase than MEAMP's.
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Post by someN7orother on Jul 20, 2017 20:20:56 GMT
Let me ask this question another way. When other loot-based games like (whatever analogy you want) drop a bunch of new (or 'new') loot at once, do people get as salty as they did about MEAMP? I've played a few MMOs and it depends on the model. In SWTOR, major patches and expansions meant that previously BiS gear was no longer so, which was often accompanied by comprehensive crafting overhauls. This was offset by the fact that these changes almost always came bundled with actual content, new things for people to do, new abilities, areas and so on. New layers were added on top of already existing loot tables which was needed to clear the new content in higher difficulties, especially when the level cap was raised. There was no loot pool dilution because new stuff didn't compete with the old in the same loot table. That being said, they did come up with other ways to hamstring players, and righteous rage flooded the forums anyway. The other MMO I put a lot of hours into was DDO and the model was different, adventure modules were released that added new loot, but rarely rendered the stuff you had obsolete. It was generally different and distinct and introduced new mechanics, spells or characters which increased variety and kept things interesting, something that was facilitated in part by a mix of randomly generated items and named pieces. Can't speak for anyone else, but what pisses me off is that, barring the batarian and Kishock, none of the shit they added in 1.09 is new. You have reskins, you have flat numeric modifiers. Snap Freeze is basically Cryo Beam on steroids. The concussive guns barely count as new mechanics, they simply cause AOE damage on a headshot kill... whoop-de-fucking-do. At the same time, all that fluff also makes it harder for you to get the stuff you want. Again, compare it with the ME3MP DLCs. If the thousands of new cards added were in fact for new I-X guns and characters, the reaction would be completely different.
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Post by ryuji2 on Jul 20, 2017 21:18:13 GMT
Well it's not really a loot kind of game, more of a gather-materials-to-craft-or-get-parts-of game. It's called Warframe. I've put in over a thousand hours on it and I love it. It's a bit of a rough start but once you start getting more weapons and whatnot, it becomes fantastic.
Also pick Excalibur as your starting frame if you decide to check it out(he's hard to get later if you don't and he's also insanely strong).
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