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Post by Element Zero on Sept 22, 2016 5:45:14 GMT
Boo! I don't see my preferred "needs yet another overhaul" option offered. They've got this "write incredible characters and lore" thing down pat. I'm still waiting for the gameplay to catch up with the setting. I'm not holding my breath, of course, and take it for what it is. Actually, what would you overhaul it to? If it were entirely left in your hands? More towards action? The Witcher, Batman: Arkham etc. Or full blown tactical? Pillars of Eternity, Baldurs Gate etc. Much more toward action, if I had my way. I've never been a fan of DA combat. I tolerate it to enjoy the setting and characters. If we can't make this an action adventure series (and I know doing so would give many fans a fit), then I'd rather see something more along the lines of DAO. The current half-hearted attempt at an action game doesn't work. Having such an amazing setting paired with such crappy gameplay really annoys me. I actually sold my preorder DAI CE after one completed game and three aborted at Skyhold. I couldn't take anymore. Nearly two years of perspective, and the improvements made via updates and DLC, combined to make the total package again an enjoyable enough game. I wish it weren't such a delicate balance. Why hold onto these outdated mechanics?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 22, 2016 5:51:31 GMT
While I've gotten used to DAI's combat, and for the most part I'm fine with it, there are things I miss from DA:O. I'd love to see the return of the robust tactics options, but I don't see that happening. I seem to recall complaints from around that time that it was just too complex/time consuming for some which is why I'm guessing they've slowly transitioned away from it. I'd also love if they went back to >8 ability slots, but they seem to prefer this system where you create various builds. There are pros and cons to each approach, but I still prefer the smorgasbord. I actually use the tac view quite often, I think it just needs to be tweaked to behave more like it did in DA:O - fade out tall objects/ceilings that might obscure the camera, and have it unimpeded by solid objects/terrain. Speed-wise, I'm fine with DAI's level of speed, though I wouldn't mind a hint quicker for some of the slow weapons. There were a lot of complaints about DA2's speed, which is why is was slowed down a bit. I also miss the cinematic finishers in DA:O, I'd love to see some Doom-style Glory Kills in the next game. Yeah, I'm very much in the same boat. I use overhead cam almost exclusively - even when the difficulty of the encounter doesn't demand it - and really miss all the abilities being available.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 22, 2016 5:54:07 GMT
Actually, what would you overhaul it to? If it were entirely left in your hands? More towards action? The Witcher, Batman: Arkham etc. Or full blown tactical? Pillars of Eternity, Baldurs Gate etc. Much more toward action, if I had my way. I've never been a fan of DA combat. I tolerate it to enjoy the setting and characters. If we can't make this an action adventure series (and I know doing so would give many fans a fit), then I'd rather see something more along the lines of DAO. The current half-hearted attempt at an action game doesn't work. Having such an amazing setting paired with such crappy gameplay really annoys me. I actually sold my preorder DAI CE after one completed game and three aborted at Skyhold. I couldn't take anymore. Nearly two years of perspective, and the improvements made via updates and DLC, combined to make the total package again an enjoyable enough game. I wish it weren't such a delicate balance. Why hold onto these outdated mechanics? I'd be one of those people who would throw a fit if they went full action. Especially if there was no control over your companions. Hopefully they find the mix that makes it right for as many as possible.
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 22, 2016 6:10:32 GMT
Much more toward action, if I had my way. I've never been a fan of DA combat. I tolerate it to enjoy the setting and characters. If we can't make this an action adventure series (and I know doing so would give many fans a fit), then I'd rather see something more along the lines of DAO. The current half-hearted attempt at an action game doesn't work. Having such an amazing setting paired with such crappy gameplay really annoys me. I actually sold my preorder DAI CE after one completed game and three aborted at Skyhold. I couldn't take anymore. Nearly two years of perspective, and the improvements made via updates and DLC, combined to make the total package again an enjoyable enough game. I wish it weren't such a delicate balance. Why hold onto these outdated mechanics? I'd be one of those people who would throw a fit if they went full action. Especially if there was no control over your companions. Hopefully they find the mix that makes it right for as many as possible. I generally don't bother to get involved in these threads, since my ideas aren't all that productive. (I've been staying up too late on too many meds. 😉) The majority of DA gamers are mostly content, so we won't ever see the type of drastic changes I'd prefer. I'd love to have a medieval fantasy Mass Effect, more or less. I'm not sure why I've never thought to describe it that way. I know the tactical gameplay, with total party control, is a big draw for fans of the games. I'm not a big fan of that feature, myself. It feels like micromanagement. I've found my niche playing on Hard, I think, since Nightmare requires that extra effort, and Normal is just too easy. Like I said, I'm sure I'm in the minority, when it comes to people who are still hanging around after all this time. Most people who dislike the gameplay as much as I have already left the series, I imagine. I just love the setting and writing too much to go. I think DAI, for all its flaws, featured BioWare's best writing ever. I don't want to derail you guys from more productive discussion. There's always one of us action game whiners in these threads. For a change, though, this one doesn't want to derail the thread.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 22, 2016 6:13:56 GMT
You weren't derailing at all. This is for discussion of DA combat and where we'd like it to go.
That's exactly what you were doing.
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Post by xeternalxdreams on Sept 22, 2016 6:36:50 GMT
I sorta feel the same way about controlling other characters besides the PC. It does feel like alot of micromanagement.
I enjoy equipping my party members and choosing their ability points though so I guess switching between them isn't that bad. I would hope they find their identity for DA. I liked each DA entry's combat for certain reasons.
I liked the tactical style in DAO, then the fluid of DA2. DAI seemed like it was trying to do both but it felt clunky compared to DA2 and more restrictions (8 spells? Ect.) than DAO.
It wasn't bad per say, but I am hoping that it's improved upon in DA4 instead of another overhaul.
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Sept 22, 2016 9:33:09 GMT
Why hold onto these outdated mechanics? Whilst I have no problems with you stating your preferences, this one line keeps on coming up in these conversations and I think it's inaccurate. Zoomed out real-time-with-pause is not outdated. It has evolved with games just as much as any other mechanic and is therefore just as modern. First Person shooter mechanics are actually probably older comparing the release dates of the original Wolfenstein to Baldur's Gate and no one says they are outdated.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 22, 2016 9:57:31 GMT
Tough one to answer because none of the answers really match what I believe. So I put Inquisition as is, with the priviso they give a much better tactical camera for DA 4, more then eight abilities, and tactics that can use more then the abilities you have given to a certain character's 'battle menu.'
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Post by Kantr on Sept 22, 2016 10:48:11 GMT
I miss the ridiculous blood that got all over you and stayed in cutscenes As if every enemy exploded.
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Post by Entropy on Sept 22, 2016 20:22:30 GMT
Voted for DAO + DAI...but truth to be told I didn't have any problem with DAO's speed. Yes, you read that correctly. *I* don't mind DAO combat speed. DAO's combat needed improvement, but I personally think they took things in the wrong direction. For example the absurd class restrictions, warriors can't use bows, rogues can only use daggers, and why they can't use shields? why mages can't learn to use their staff as a weapon? And the 8 abilities restriction turned a mana based casting system in some sort of mana based vancian casting system... I also miss the secondary weapon slot greatly. I like to keep my party close to each other. Being able to change everybody to ranged weapons on the fly allowed me to finish enemies running away without endangering my party. Personally, I would have prefered a classless system, and since mages are born not made in DA, the magic ability would have been chosen at character creation. Mages would have combat trees available, then if you are an apostate you would be able to defend yourself without using magic in front of witnesses that could report you ( DA2 I'm looking at you )
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 23, 2016 3:53:26 GMT
Voted for DAO + DAI...but truth to be told I didn't have any problem with DAO's speed. Yes, you read that correctly. *I* don't mind DAO combat speed. DAO's combat needed improvement, but I personally think they took things in the wrong direction. For example the absurd class restrictions, warriors can't use bows, rogues can only use daggers, and why they can't use shields? why mages can't learn to use their staff as a weapon? And the 8 abilities restriction turned a mana based casting system in some sort of mana based vancian casting system... I also miss the secondary weapon slot greatly. I like to keep my party close to each other. Being able to change everybody to ranged weapons on the fly allowed me to finish enemies running away without endangering my party. Personally, I would have prefered a classless system, and since mages are born not made in DA, the magic ability would have been chosen at character creation. Mages would have combat trees available, then if you are an apostate you would be able to defend yourself without using magic in front of witnesses that could report you ( DA2 I'm looking at you ) If the game permitted, I would've totally turned Hawke into an Assassin Force Mage. It's draining my mana just thinking about it.
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Post by Nimlowyn on Sept 23, 2016 6:34:41 GMT
I would have voted DAI but not as it is. I'd like it with the tactics and no ability limit from DAO and DA2.
Edit: On second thought maybe that falls under DAO complexity with DAI animation speed. I'll vote that, close enough.
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Post by cribbian on Sept 24, 2016 13:02:39 GMT
DA2 combat with DA:O camera would be perfect imo.
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Post by cardbutton on Sept 24, 2016 14:17:36 GMT
Since the option isn't there I chose the "DA:O Complexity mixed with Inquisition animation speed". To be honest though I would prefer something that falls about in between DA2 and DA:I. The ability to move while auto-attacking or doing certain abilities is necessary to keep combat dynamic IMO, but I don't want it to go so far as to merely turning the game into another 3rd Person Action game with RPG Elements like SoM. Overhead screen is a must and we definitely need a better Companion tactics board, but I though maybe it would be fun to make combat and mobility vary a little bit based on class. While all classes can and should be able to continue moving while auto-attacking, maybe the amount of abilities they can use while remaining mobile will vary per class and build. In general Mages have the least abilities they can use while remaining mobile, Rogues would have the most, Warriors would fall somewhere in between. Specialization and builds giving a bit of flexibility. This would give a more DA2 combat feel for Rogues, while giving a more DA:I combat feel for Mages, and Warriors being a mixed bag. This would allow a lot more game play variety and replay-ability by simply making the combat less stale on repeated playthroughs. Or at least that's what a crazy person who wrote a 30+ page fan game concept for DA4 would do lol! I think about this kind of crap way too much.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 3, 2016 5:47:00 GMT
I would prefer BioWare learn from Witcher to improve their combat system, and get people who are wizards of combat choreography and mocap movements.
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