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Post by guanxi on Aug 5, 2017 10:45:17 GMT
Controller Question: Do You Ever Use Squad (Directional) Commands on a Controller D-Pad?
Perhaps on PC but almost never on a controller. I used to once upon a time though usually to direct tank-y characters like Grunt into direct fire during the Trilogy because the AI was poor but nowadays in this game it's just not necessary anymore imo which got me thinking what else could we use the D-Pad for instead in a hypothetical future BioWare game?
Having played the multiplayer for years now, whenever I go back to single-player I have this twitch reflex response whenever I'm about to die I press left for medi-gel (Ops Packs) like a skinner box rat without even thinking about it which leads to lots of irritating unnecessary deaths due to the unintuitive and cumbersome game-flow breaking gui compared to the lite multiplayer control scheme it's attempting to evoke which is just so much more intuitive than this horrible halfway house solution.
In my opinion adding consumables was a good idea in theory but the consumable/weapon wheel menu is unnecessary for a number of reasons. First of all weapon switching should have been part of the Favorite system and secondly equipping consumables should be something you do before a mission on a fully developed gui screen menu not during a mission in the middle of combat.
If they had assigned consumables to the d-pad like multiplayer they could have used the back button and that screen real-estate during combat to develop a new tactical view for directing squad power usage and which could also have been used for issuing directional commands.
Whether you use m+kb or a controller what are your thoughts on squad commands as they stand? How would you improve on them and the control scheme in general or has the series simply moved on from the traditional squad tactical gameplay of old grounded in hardware and engine limitations and are perhaps no longer really necessary anymore due to better AI and the change of (combat) direction?
My ideal control scheme for a hypothetical future Mass Effect game would attempt to bridge the gap between the measured tactical gameplay of ME:T and the fast paced action-orientated advances of MP & ME:A. Ideally, something a bit like this:
Up: Equip Heavy Weapon (5/5) - e.g. Cobras, Cains, Blackstorm, Arc Projector, etc. via your ship/inventory Left: Medi-Gel (5/5) - For Shield Boosting / Revives Right: Ammo / Grenade Refill (5/5) Down: Un-equip/Switch Weapon
Hold Up: Favorite 1 Hold Left: Favorite 2 Hold Right: Favorite 3 Hold Down: Favorite 4
Back: Tactical View (No longer paused but V.A.T.S speed) Start: Menu
A / X : Run / Hold (situational): Cover X / Square : Reload / Hold + Left Stick: Jump Dodge B / Circle : Light Melee / Hold: Heavy Melee Y / Triangle : Primary Power / Hold Y: Jetpack Jump
LB / L1 : Power 2 RB / R1: Power 3 LT / L2 : Fine Aim RT / R2 : Shoot
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Post by vonuber on Aug 5, 2017 11:04:54 GMT
You need 'I don't use a controller' and 'i never use them' options.
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Post by guanxi on Aug 5, 2017 11:09:15 GMT
You need 'I don't use a controller' and 'i never use them' options. I'll try and update my post, but i'm mainly interested in controller users thoughts on the D-Pad but there's no doubt these changes would affect the PC user interface as well. I'm curious if there are PC M/KB users who don't use them either and if not why not[?]
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 5, 2017 11:34:42 GMT
I mean no offense, but your complaint about the D-Pad strikes me as the reason why we lost tactical combat in single player because players were getting confused between having a paused based system for single player and a real-time system for multiplayer.
They could do some remapping of the keys to make them better for sure, but I think they do need to keep some level of squad control on the controller for that is part of how the squad based game works and frankly the AI is still very dumb in my opinion and needs the assistance to be on the target I want them to be on during the tougher fights.
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Post by BadgerladDK on Aug 5, 2017 11:46:34 GMT
If squad commands were actually needed, I'd keep them where they are, but the game is easy enough that the only time I used them was when the game told me to while Alec was doing his door thing.
Wouldn't have a problem with them moving to the wheel, though.
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guanxi
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Post by guanxi on Aug 5, 2017 12:02:16 GMT
I mean no offense, but your complaint about the D-Pad strikes me as the reason why we lost tactical combat in single player because players were getting confused between having a paused based system for single player and a real-time system for multiplayer. They could do some remapping of the keys to make them better for sure, but I think they do need to keep some level of squad control on the controller for that is part of how the squad based game works and frankly the AI is still very dumb in my opinion and needs the assistance to be on the target I want them to be on during the tougher fights. At this point the directional commands are very token... they're like the last vestiges of the old traditional ME1 combat system that have refused to die over the years. I missed the tactical / pause menu and would very much like to see it return. It always struck me as odd that you couldn't direct squad-mate movement on that tactical view which could be a better system overall as that would hide the traditional RPG interface away from the action orientated players and free-up some very valuable space on the controller at the same time.
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Post by mmoblitz on Aug 5, 2017 12:16:00 GMT
In the OT I used them because they companions were actually useful and I had more control over them. Now they are nothing more than cannon fodder and halt the time don't obey what minimal commands you can give them now. If I had the option of not using any in my PT I would have ejected all of them out of the airlock and went on alone.
I am KB & M user.
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Post by ProbeAway on Aug 5, 2017 12:19:49 GMT
I voted to keep squad commands but I'd be happy for them to be solely in a tactical pause wheel/screen, leaving the Dpad free for consumables or favourites like you've suggested.
The real time squad commands aren't detailed enough to be much use. The only time I really bothered with them was to call my squadmates back to me if they were running off on their own or I was drawing too much aggro. Otherwise they just did their own thing.
Removing the power wheel was a terrible, terrible decision. By far and away the worst gameplay change Bioware made for Andromeda (closely followed by the 3 power limit).
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Post by fraggle on Aug 5, 2017 12:25:35 GMT
In MEA? Not really. It didn't matter even if I did. I still vote for Yes, because I always prefer squad commands and use them in the trilogy because it feels like we're a real team and like I'm the one in charge. I'd give anything to have the tactical approach back where we can access our squadmates' powers and use them. The lack of it in MEA is why I hated the combat in this game. It's dull and boring for me. It plays like Multiplayer, and while the MP for ME3 was surprisingly fun to me, SP combat always tops it. I even prefer ME1 to MEA because I can tell my squadmates which talent to use when, it's just so much more tactical and fun to me, but I guess that's a pretty unpopular opinion about MEA's combat.
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Post by vonuber on Aug 5, 2017 12:41:45 GMT
PC user, never used them in the MET or MEA. Just wasn't the need.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Aug 5, 2017 12:58:20 GMT
In the OT I used them because they companions were actually useful and I had more control over them. Now they are nothing more than cannon fodder and halt the time don't obey what minimal commands you can give them now. If I had the option of not using any in my PT I would have ejected all of them out of the airlock and went on alone. I am KB & M user. Yeah I don't use them in MEA as they don't work all that well I do in the trliogy though. But I only tend to use them when I need to save my own ass from being kicked.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 5, 2017 13:35:17 GMT
I used them in the Milky Way. I had this squadmate use whatever power they had on this baddie while the other squadmate used whatever power on that baddie over there. In Andromeda.....Maybe the power wheel will return in the next ME game. Don't know.
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Post by roivas on Aug 5, 2017 14:10:04 GMT
Can't, vote, I play on PC with kb + mouse & I care about squad commands because I used them a lot, especially in ME1 & ME3. Removing them in MEA battle system is for be a big mistake, really disappointing.
I really hope that squad commands will make a come back for the next ME (if there is one :x).
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Post by fchopin on Aug 5, 2017 14:28:32 GMT
You need 'I don't use a controller' and 'i never use them' options. Ok, there is a keyboard and mouse option.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Aug 5, 2017 14:58:46 GMT
I use computer version of the game and I use the squad commands. Usually only on bigger enemies like fiends though but mainly to manipulate the enemy into my kill zone.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 16:30:26 GMT
Despite not using them at all for MEA, I voted to keep and improve squad commands.
The one thing that I feel was an improvement to combat from MET --> MEA is auto-cover. ME3's omni-button was a PITA, as was Shepard's stickiness that made it impossible to sprint past a cover node.
I was massively disheartened when I learned about the loss of the power wheel and mini-map, the loss of the class system, the loss of control of squad powers, and the addition of jump jets. I decided to give it the good old college try, and despite having ~ 1,000 hours invested in MEA (mostly MP), I've never found it nearly as much fun as ME3 was. In one fell swoop, ME moved from a cover-based shooter to a movement-based shooter, and it isn't what I signed up for when I started playing the series. I would guess that at this point, there are more people still playing ME3MP than MEAMP.
Moving forward, I would love nothing better than for the power wheel and mini-map to return along with control of squad powers, the class system, and for the jump jets to take a final flying leap without my character. At the same time, I'd like for Ryder and squaddies to continue in the next game (if/when there is one), but it's difficult to imagine them returning to those systems (especially the class system) with the same set of characters, so... I'm not terribly hopeful about the likelihood. In the (unlikely?) event that the combat changes are reverted and Andromeda were to eventually become another trilogy, I suppose MEA's fate could be similar to ME1's in that it is the least liked combat system.
Anyhoo, I find MEA's limited squad commands utterly pointless and don't ever bother with them. Since I can't pause to assess the battlefield conditions and accurately target them, I find that I'm better off just trying to manage Ryder through the frenzied, chaotic combat.
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Post by guanxi on Aug 5, 2017 21:10:01 GMT
Despite not using them at all for MEA, I voted to keep and improve squad commands. The one thing that I feel was an improvement to combat from MET --> MEA is auto-cover. ME3's omni-button was a PITA, as was Shepard's stickiness that made it impossible to sprint past a cover node. I was massively disheartened when I learned about the loss of the power wheel and mini-map, the loss of the class system, the loss of control of squad powers, and the addition of jump jets. I decided to give it the good old college try, and despite having ~ 1,000 hours invested in MEA (mostly MP), I've never found it nearly as much fun as ME3 was. In one fell swoop, ME moved from a cover-based shooter to a movement-based shooter, and it isn't what I signed up for when I started playing the series. I would guess that at this point, there are more people still playing ME3MP than MEAMP. Moving forward, I would love nothing better than for the power wheel and mini-map to return along with control of squad powers, the class system, and for the jump jets to take a final flying leap without my character. At the same time, I'd like for Ryder and squaddies to continue in the next game (if/when there is one), but it's difficult to imagine them returning to those systems (especially the class system) with the same set of characters, so... I'm not terribly hopeful about the likelihood. In the (unlikely?) event that the combat changes are reverted and Andromeda were to eventually become another trilogy, I suppose MEA's fate could be similar to ME1's in that it is the least liked combat system. Anyhoo, I find MEA's limited squad commands utterly pointless and don't ever bother with them. Since I can't pause to assess the battlefield conditions and accurately target them, I find that I'm better off just trying to manage Ryder through the frenzied, chaotic combat. The jump jet should have been an optional alternative movement styles for maybe 1 or 2 classes at most which you could've modified with equipment in singleplayer imo. There should have been ways (alt. paths) to traverse maps without it in singleplayer. It made mission design very linear which was precisely the opposite intension. In multiplayer I hate it because it homogenizes all of the formerly different movement styles and now Krogans, Humans, Turians, etc. all move exactly the same way, every character except for the odd asari feels like a Turian Ghost whereas before in ME3MP all of the different races moved at different speeds and had different dodge styles which was a huge part of the appeal of unlocking rare characters.
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Post by clips7 on Aug 6, 2017 15:30:09 GMT
I never used squad commands...In Andromeda or the trilogy,....the AI was usually competent enough to stay alive and to attack sufficiently....tho i think i did use squad commands early on in ME2 for tutorial purposes, and i think the game forces you to use them in that aspect.
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Aug 7, 2017 7:19:26 GMT
NOT EVEN ONCE in Andromeda. Quite often in MET.
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coldsteelblue
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Post by coldsteelblue on Aug 7, 2017 8:54:46 GMT
Don't use them at all.
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Post by force58 on Aug 7, 2017 13:37:12 GMT
Controller Question: Do You Ever Use Squad (Directional) Commands on a Controller D-Pad?Perhaps on PC but almost never on a controller. I used to once upon a time though usually to direct tank-y characters like Grunt into direct fire during the Trilogy because the AI was poor but nowadays in this game it's just not necessary anymore imo which got me thinking what else could we use the D-Pad for instead in a hypothetical future BioWare game? Having played the multiplayer for years now, whenever I go back to single-player I have this twitch reflex response whenever I'm about to die I press left for medi-gel (Ops Packs) like a skinner box rat without even thinking about it which leads to lots of irritating unnecessary deaths due to the unintuitive and cumbersome game-flow breaking gui compared to the lite multiplayer control scheme it's attempting to evoke which is just so much more intuitive than this horrible halfway house solution. In my opinion adding consumables was a good idea in theory but the consumable/weapon wheel menu is unnecessary for a number of reasons. First of all weapon switching should have been part of the Favorite system and secondly equipping consumables should be something you do before a mission on a fully developed gui screen menu not during a mission in the middle of combat. If they had assigned consumables to the d-pad like multiplayer they could have used the back button and that screen real-estate during combat to develop a new tactical view for directing squad power usage and which could also have been used for issuing directional commands. Whether you use m+kb or a controller what are your thoughts on squad commands as they stand? How would you improve on them and the control scheme in general or has the series simply moved on from the traditional squad tactical gameplay of old grounded in hardware and engine limitations and are perhaps no longer really necessary anymore due to better AI and the change of (combat) direction? My ideal control scheme for a hypothetical future Mass Effect game would attempt to bridge the gap between the measured tactical gameplay of ME:T and the fast paced action-orientated advances of MP & ME:A. Ideally, something a bit like this: Up: Equip Heavy Weapon (5/5) - e.g. Cobras, Cains, Blackstorm, Arc Projector, etc. via your ship/inventory Left: Medi-Gel (5/5) - For Shield Boosting / Revives Right: Ammo / Grenade Refill (5/5) Down: Un-equip/Switch Weapon
Hold Up: Favorite 1 Hold Left: Favorite 2 Hold Right: Favorite 3 Hold Down: Favorite 4
Back: Tactical View (No longer paused but V.A.T.S speed) Start: Menu
A / X : Run / Hold (situational): Cover X / Square : Reload / Hold + Left Stick: Jump Dodge B / Circle : Light Melee / Hold: Heavy Melee Y / Triangle : Primary Power / Hold Y: Jetpack Jump
LB / L1 : Power 2 RB / R1: Power 3 LT / L2 : Fine Aim RT / R2 : Shoot
I use the D-pad on my xbox to move the squad around and/or to direct fire. Sad though as I just learned about this capability once I had finished the main story line. My buddy and I are finding out there are a lot of things in the game we didn't know about and weren't intuitive in-game. It took awhile to figure out we could complete the glyphs using the decrypt item. My buddy just completed the game for the 2nd time and he didn't know about fast travel the first playthrough and it took me awhile to convince him that there was special ammo and abilities available!!!
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Post by guanxi on Aug 7, 2017 14:26:51 GMT
I use the D-pad on my xbox to move the squad around and/or to direct fire. Sad though as I just learned about this capability once I had finished the main story line. My buddy and I are finding out there are a lot of things in the game we didn't know about and weren't intuitive in-game. It took awhile to figure out we could complete the glyphs using the decrypt item. My buddy just completed the game for the 2nd time and he didn't know about fast travel the first playthrough and it took me awhile to convince him that there was special ammo and abilities available!!! The introductory tutorial section on Habitat 7 was a huge wasted opportunity. I don't think they explained power combos, consumables or the favorite system once.They used SAM as a crutch throughout to explain blatantly obvious things about that god awful scanner which did not need explaining and repeating ad nauseam, and left users completely in the dark about just about all of the more complicated / fringe stuff like research and development and weapon augmentations. The fact somebody could go an entire game and not know about fast travel or presumably unlocking the fast travel stations speaks volumes as to the inadequate user interface design and testing and weaving in of tutorialization for players about very basic features of the game and if you missed stuff like this which could very quickly lead to frustration it's no wonder the reaction has been as mixed as it was.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 7, 2017 14:47:22 GMT
PC user, never used them in the MET or MEA. Just wasn't the need. Yeah same here. The companions are useful enough without them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 16:08:48 GMT
I use the D-pad on my xbox to move the squad around and/or to direct fire. Sad though as I just learned about this capability once I had finished the main story line. My buddy and I are finding out there are a lot of things in the game we didn't know about and weren't intuitive in-game. It took awhile to figure out we could complete the glyphs using the decrypt item. My buddy just completed the game for the 2nd time and he didn't know about fast travel the first playthrough and it took me awhile to convince him that there was special ammo and abilities available!!! The introductory tutorial section on Habitat 7 was a huge wasted opportunity. I don't think they explained power combos, consumables or the favorite system once.They used SAM as a crutch throughout to explain blatantly obvious things about that god awful scanner which did not need explaining and repeating ad nauseam, and left users completely in the dark about just about all of the more complicated / fringe stuff like research and development and weapon augmentations. The fact somebody could go an entire game and not know about fast travel or presumably unlocking the fast travel stations speaks volumes as to the inadequate user interface design and testing and weaving in of tutorialization for players about very basic features of the game and if you missed stuff like this which could very quickly lead to frustration it's no wonder the reaction has been as mixed as it was. I think there's a happy medium between being uninformed and being beaten over the head with information that is easily available in-game for anyone who bothers to look for it. If someone didn't know they could use items to hack the sudoku puzzles or fast travel, it's because they didn't bother to read the menus at the bottom of the screens that tell you what different keys do on that screen. There is a set of tutorials available through the main menu functions that explain what all of the keys do in various situations. I'd agree the UI seemed a little overwhelming at first, but inserting tutorial after tutorial to accommodate players who don't bother to explore the UI (or the game) on their own isn't the answer.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 7, 2017 16:27:14 GMT
I used squad command when we could tell when to cast a power. But since I got used to the fast combat I barely use even the "go here" commands. On higher difficulties they die anyway all the time.
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