Scathane
N4
Space Pirate
🚀🥃🏴☠
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Scathane on Aug 18, 2017 14:18:39 GMT
Yeah, it's a 'make costs once - make multiple products/services' kind of endeavour...
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Post by JRandall0308 on Aug 18, 2017 14:37:50 GMT
And we will *all* use the thing the company spent money on come Hell or high water, even if that thing is totally unsuitable for the work we are doing.
ALL HAIL REMEDY AND FROSTBITE!
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Post by angrybobh on Aug 18, 2017 18:20:24 GMT
You mean the game engine as a whole? It's a fantastic engine, designed for FPSs not RPGs or Racing games (NFS uses Frosbite now too), that's the dumb decision from part of EA (one of many, I guess). Why the fuck they want ALL their vassals to use Frosbite when the engine is not designed to be used like that? it's just dumb. I would define a good game engine as one that can be used nearly universally, has little problems, and is fairly easy for a game development team to use. Game engines seem to be expensive and time consuming to develop so a company would naturally try to use only one (that they have made so no usage charges). Frostbite is said to be really good at only one thing so not universal. It has at least one big problem (sound bug) and I have no idea if it is easy for the devs to use. So, yeah, it does not qualify as a good engine and should be discontinued.
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Post by shinobiwan on Aug 18, 2017 18:27:51 GMT
Same reason my company wants everyone to use Remedy which is a helpdesk ticketing system, not an actual software development tool: because of the illusion that uniformity is somehow good and desireable. I mean cmon though, MEA was the perfect shitstorm. Untested team, mismanaged development cycle, etc. I can see the efficiencies eventually being realized in the next gen of frostbite titles, and frankly DAI was terrific in the areas MEA was lacking IMO. I can also see how that will build an advantage over other large publishers like Activision. As much as I'm disappointed by the results in MEA I actually think this plan will succeed. Also, they seem to have all hands on deck for the Star Wars stuff and have learned their lesson a little.
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Post by CHRrOME on Aug 18, 2017 18:31:02 GMT
You mean the game engine as a whole? It's a fantastic engine, designed for FPSs not RPGs or Racing games (NFS uses Frosbite now too), that's the dumb decision from part of EA (one of many, I guess). Why the fuck they want ALL their vassals to use Frosbite when the engine is not designed to be used like that? it's just dumb. I would define a good game engine as one that can be used nearly universally, has little problems, and is fairly easy for a game development team to use. Game engines seem to be expensive and time consuming to develop so a company would naturally try to use only one (that they have made so no usage charges). Frostbite is said to be really good at only one thing so not universal. It has at least one big problem (sound bug) and I have no idea if it is easy for the devs to use. So, yeah, it does not qualify as a good engine and should be discontinued. I doubt DICE made the engine with the idea in mind that EA will make it the Flagship for all the other games under its wing. I'd assume DICE made the engine to fulfill the role they needed when they created Battlefield. If EA want a universal engine they should put someone to work on it, not pick the one that can achieve the best visual fidelity, but is designed only for one genre. Bethesda doesn't use the same engine for all its games either. The ID Tech series was used for some games, but they said it was "unsuited" for a Fallout/Elder Scrolls game, so they have the Creation Engine for those. Obviously its a different example, but If I pick the REDengine (used in Witcher 3) as it is and I try to create a shooter or a racing game out of it, I am gonna struggle, that's guaranteed. The engine was made for a specific game or set of games in mind.
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Post by angrybobh on Aug 18, 2017 18:54:55 GMT
Also, they seem to have all hands on deck for the Star Wars stuff and have learned their lesson a little. Companies, in general, don't learn lessons. They keep doing the same shit over and over until it hurts someones profit, then they fire almost everyone and start doing the same shit over again with only slight variations. If EA learned a lesson they would create the 'amputation' engine, which is of course the usual 'cure' for frostbite.
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Scathane
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Space Pirate
🚀🥃🏴☠
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Scathane on Aug 18, 2017 20:47:34 GMT
I would define a good game engine as one that can be used nearly universally, has little problems, and is fairly easy for a game development team to use. Game engines seem to be expensive and time consuming to develop so a company would naturally try to use only one (that they have made so no usage charges). Frostbite is said to be really good at only one thing so not universal. It has at least one big problem (sound bug) and I have no idea if it is easy for the devs to use. So, yeah, it does not qualify as a good engine and should be discontinued. I doubt DICE made the engine with the idea in mind that EA will make it the Flagship for all the other games under its wing. I'd assume DICE made the engine to fulfill the role they needed when they created Battlefield. If EA want a universal engine they should put someone to work on it, not pick the one that can achieve the best visual fidelity, but is designed only for one genre. Bethesda doesn't use the same engine for all its games either. The ID Tech series was used for some games, but they said it was "unsuited" for a Fallout/Elder Scrolls game, so they have the Creation Engine for those. Obviously its a different example, but If I pick the REDengine (used in Witcher 3) as it is and I try to create a shooter or a racing game out of it, I am gonna struggle, that's guaranteed. The engine was made for a specific game or set of games in mind. No, actually. It was first designed for shooters but was re-purposed for other games as soon as 2011/2. So, the Frostbite we have today is not specifically designed for shooters anymore... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frostbite_(game_engine)
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Spectr61
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Post by Spectr61 on Aug 18, 2017 21:59:48 GMT
I have faith they are actively working to make the game better. My concern is how much time / budget / executive support they will be granted to execute on their plans. Edit: also your third option? "All is lost for this engine" - did you really mean Frostbite, the game engine? b/c I don't think EA is going to throw that out any time soon. Agreed. Since they own it. Their mp track record using FB3 is a Harbinger of Doom for future releases. Looks at Anthem..... (Gratuitous references to non-FB titles intended)
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Post by ddrguy300 on Aug 18, 2017 22:18:11 GMT
This seems to be a pretty constructive and useful pool of feedback. While it certainly sucks to look at yourself in the mirror at times, I'm sure the devs would at least find this to be useful in some regard, whatever that might be.
Any mods see it worthy of being pinned?
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mushroomtagger
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Hail to pyjak and space hamster
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mushroomtagger on Aug 19, 2017 1:20:29 GMT
I voted for all is lost. My biggest beef with the MP is the card system. It is even more poorly designed than many of the F2P games out there. The RNG and the reward you are getting aren't attractive at all. Other games had horrible RNG too, but at least when you do get the rewards, it feels satisfying. Not so much in MEAMP though. You unlock a new ultra rare character? 19 more cards to go to get the full potential. The worst is, unless you have so much money that you don't care about making a living. There's no way for any normal person out there to spend money to even enjoy MP. To cut the grinding time short to try different builds and weapons. Even pokemon go knows to sell premium raid pass if I want to do legendary raid more than once in a day in the hope of catching lugia and the likes. Niantic didn't just put RNG into, well you might get a premium pass or u might just get potions or pokeballs, it is all RNG. No, you actually spend money to get what you set out to buy. Bioware, if we are spending real money, we better be getting what we want. That's a lesson to learn
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Hail to pyjak and space hamster
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Post by mushroomtagger on Aug 19, 2017 1:23:02 GMT
Also, they seem to have all hands on deck for the Star Wars stuff and have learned their lesson a little. Companies, in general, don't learn lessons. They keep doing the same shit over and over until it hurts someones profit, then they fire almost everyone and start doing the same shit over again with only slight variations. If EA learned a lesson they would create the 'amputation' engine, which is of course the usual 'cure' for frostbite. Well said!!!!! This is so true ever since I graduated from college and started working in the real world (not including part time jobs). Corporations never learned their mistakes, rarely you see any change at all because everyone will find a scapegoat, fire them, and pretend the problems do not exist.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Aug 19, 2017 1:57:19 GMT
Companies, in general, don't learn lessons. They keep doing the same shit over and over until it hurts someones profit, then they fire almost everyone and start doing the same shit over again with only slight variations. If EA learned a lesson they would create the 'amputation' engine, which is of course the usual 'cure' for frostbite. Well said!!!!! This is so true ever since I graduated from college and started working in the real world (not including part time jobs). Corporations never learned their mistakes, rarely you see any change at all because everyone will find a scapegoat, fire them, and pretend the problems do not exist. And as long as everyone continues to not look down at the lack of footing, we'll be fine. Maybe. Probably. Nah.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 19, 2017 2:05:25 GMT
I doubt DICE made the engine with the idea in mind that EA will make it the Flagship for all the other games under its wing. I'd assume DICE made the engine to fulfill the role they needed when they created Battlefield. If EA want a universal engine they should put someone to work on it, not pick the one that can achieve the best visual fidelity, but is designed only for one genre. Bethesda doesn't use the same engine for all its games either. The ID Tech series was used for some games, but they said it was "unsuited" for a Fallout/Elder Scrolls game, so they have the Creation Engine for those. Obviously its a different example, but If I pick the REDengine (used in Witcher 3) as it is and I try to create a shooter or a racing game out of it, I am gonna struggle, that's guaranteed. The engine was made for a specific game or set of games in mind. No, actually. It was first designed for shooters but was re-purposed for other games as soon as 2011/2. So, the Frostbite we have today is not specifically designed for shooters anymore... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frostbite_(game_engine)LOL
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 19, 2017 3:15:10 GMT
I have faith they are actively working to make the game better. My concern is how much time / budget / executive support they will be granted to execute on their plans. Edit: also your third option? "All is lost for this engine" - did you really mean Frostbite, the game engine? b/c I don't think EA is going to throw that out any time soon. Only a fool blames his tools. DAI was released years earlier in a much better state imo. It's perfectly capable in the right hands. The multiplayer is alright at best, lack of original content and 1.09 drove most of the audience away some time ago. There's not much left they can do at this point. Working on in house game engines isn't all it's cracked up to be. Why do you think Squaresoft dropped their in house Luminous Engine and went back to Unreal Engine 4 for Kingdom Heats 3? Because developing and maintaining an in house game engine is of course going to be eating into actual game development time.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 19, 2017 8:25:00 GMT
Only a fool blames his tools. DAI was released years earlier in a much better state imo. It's perfectly capable in the right hands. The multiplayer is alright at best, lack of original content and 1.09 drove most of the audience away some time ago. There's not much left they can do at this point. Working on in house game engines isn't all it's cracked up to be. Why do you think Squaresoft dropped their in house Luminous Engine and went back to Unreal Engine 4 for Kingdom Heats 3? Because developing and maintaining an in house game engine is of course going to be eating into actual game development time. I don't think any engine comes without some "upkeep time" whether licensed or not. It's rather down to picking the right tool for the job. You can drive a nail into wood with a screwdriver but it also might make your hand bleed. EA's choice is likely picking it as a selling point because of the fidelity it can produce and also to cut down licensing cost.
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Post by mrfuddyduddy on Aug 19, 2017 11:19:43 GMT
MP is as good as dead, it is f@cked up in too many ways. There biggest f*** ups though have largely been how they released like 5000 cards in 1.09 over inflating the loot pool to the point were all incentive to play if your new is dead, and any incentive to purchase Andromeda Points is dead. Honestly variants should have not existed, all weapons should have just gotten a third mod slot BY DEFAULT, and variants should have came in the form of a weapon mod that is universal (only adding 30 new cards instead of like 2300...) veteran ranks should have been tied to resetting character level or just through gaining experience not through cards. (That addition made all UR's characters useless for like 99% of the player base) My biggest gripe however is how all the new weapon mods are locked behind MF's, which cannot be purchased and it would take like 8-10 months of saving them and getting the maximum possible per day to unlock them all, who thought that was a good idea??? Not only that out of all the mods added, only like 3-4 of them are worth a damn. Aside from that I still believe we are better off now than we were at launch, diffidently beats playing/seeing nothing but Vanguards punch spamming everything or Vanquishers that's for sure.
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Transcended One
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TranscendedOne
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Post by Transcended One on Aug 19, 2017 15:06:47 GMT
The Hurricane and Shadow are the new Vanquishers...
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Post by akots on Aug 19, 2017 15:51:59 GMT
I voted for the second option, as silly as it sounds. Bioware has to try and go back to basic really schizophrenic gameplay design features and wriggle them back to normal. Most likely, they won't do that. However, as this is hypothetical option poll, theoretically they can do it. There is no point is listing the issues again, it has been done hundreds of times since game launch to include multiple things. Myself, I would still prioritize unresponsive controls, "netcode", glitchy jetpacks, animation with interrupts/reloading, enemy design, gun design, some power design, and manifest progression. Wow, that is quite a lot.
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Post by jloco11 on Aug 19, 2017 17:15:48 GMT
I actually just started playing the campaign... I jumped straight into MP and figured I would play the campaign some time down the road when they added all the campaign DLC.
I don't see any SP DLC coming, and MP has the few rare characters coming. However, at their 1 character per month rate, that means we'll see the 4th character in December if they don't change that logic.
So I'm partially moving on already. I only play MP at night to do the 2 daily challenges, I'm playing the campaign mostly now.... and all my friends left the game months ago, which means I PUG every night.
And with Destiny 2 around the corner, this game is a lame duck right. Just killing time until the next game I want to play comes out, so I will never play those all those new characters. Probably won't finish the campaign before Destiny 2 either, and will have to come back to it down the road when I get bored with D2.
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