inherit
7754
0
4,492
biggydx
2,641
Apr 17, 2017 16:08:05 GMT
April 2017
biggydx
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
BiggyMD
|
Post by biggydx on Aug 25, 2017 15:44:04 GMT
Ditching the class system of the OT, the game utilizes a pick-and-choose system where you choose from three core skill trees (Combat, Tech, Biotic). This allows for an assortment of skill combinations and combat possibilities; a limitation of the old class system. I do know that there are some players who still pine for the old class system, as it gave them a reason to play the game multiple times over.
Me personally, I think it should stay, but I would make some changes to it. Currently, it is possible to max out every ability/passive in the game. Eventually, that just leads to everyone having the jack-of-all-trades build. What I would do is, once you've gotten a skill to Rank 6, it would upon up a new Rank called the "Specialization" rank. This fundamentally boosts the efficacy of the ability you're using, or maybe even adds a new feature to it. This comes at the cost of more skill points. So say you want to purely specialize as a Biotic, and your at max level. You would have enough skill points (at max level) to get every ability/passive in the Biotic tree to Rank 6, in addition to each abilities/passives specialization rank, but nothing else from the other skill trees. This same principle would apply when delving into two or more skill trees. If you wanted a Vanguard style playthrough, you could specialize in - lets just say - half of the Biotic Tree, and half of the Combat tree; but nothing more. I feel this kind of method would be the best of both worlds, as it lets players who miss the old class system to actually play to a particular class style, while also giving players the opportunity to test out various abilities.
|
|
definitelykrogan
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 18 Likes: 44
inherit
9217
0
44
definitelykrogan
18
August 2017
definitelykrogan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by definitelykrogan on Aug 25, 2017 16:25:11 GMT
I prefer the class system with a lot of skill in that class to choose from [Like ME1 LOTS of skill] While ME:A Customization skill set are nice but limited it to only 3 skills to use is kinda... pointless to have those customize.
also please bring back squad command. >.>''
|
|
inherit
1129
0
Nov 25, 2024 23:55:29 GMT
2,052
traks
1,012
Aug 22, 2016 11:07:02 GMT
August 2016
traks
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
t_raks_99
|
Post by traks on Aug 25, 2017 16:29:37 GMT
Pick and choose is glorious to me, so keep it! Gives freedom to those who wanna mix and match and doesn't hinder anyone to stay in the old class system.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
7959
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 16:30:06 GMT
I loved what MEA did. The NG+ is awesome in this system, no need to re-level, and re-pick all the silly low-level gear, just add new ability you want to use, and you are good to go! Loved it! I don't like any sort of lock outs in the games on skills.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Aug 25, 2017 16:34:51 GMT
I'll never advocate for giving players less choice in a SP game, so definitely don't go back to the old system.
I never got the complaint of I experienced everything in one playthrough, now there's nothing left to do and it hurt replayability. Nothing was stopping anyone from specializing, people chose to build their characters the way they did.
|
|
RoboticWater
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 219 Likes: 552
inherit
1275
0
552
RoboticWater
219
August 2016
roboticwater
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
|
Post by RoboticWater on Aug 25, 2017 16:54:29 GMT
The system needs to be ditched. Centrally, it's a system that is designed specifically to complement a large open world and single playthroughs, and that's simply not something I want encouraged in a Mass Effect game. The fewer systems that play into the open world paradigm, the better. Of course, that's not the least of the system's problems.
For a game that is supposedly about choice, one would imagine that the game designers would wish to create systems that promoted as much uniqueness as possible, and that's what classes do: they give you a tailored, unique experience throughout a game. Ideally, playing as a different class should feel like a totally fresh experience, so that even if I'm getting largely the same narrative, the game doesn't feel so repetitive.
As it is now, every power needs to be balanced as a standalone. That may sound nice (everybody loves balance, right?), but the actual effect is that loadouts can't diverge nearly as much as they could. You can't have a class with a power that works exclusively in tandem with another, in other words: no neat power combos, just prime and detonate. Sure, Mass Effect has never had an especially compelling combo system, and its only ever doubled down harder on the prime/detonate paradigm, but Andromeda's leveling system essentially requires that to be the case. I always hoped BioWare would improve upon their power system by diversifying the kinds of effects/use cases for each ability, but now most things, more than ever, needs to be just different shades of damage and AoE.
I wanted Biotics to feel like the fatiguing, dangerous things that we've always been told they were and Tech to be the meticulous and manipulative things they were always supposed to be. But when they all need to be balanced together, BioWare simply can't make the necessary mechanics to make that happen. Everything needs to work on the same kind of cooldown and all be activated at the press of a button.
From a narrative standpoint, the system also negates any sort of uniqueness from "being a biotic" or "being an engineer." It's not necessarily the character background that I care about, it's the in-game feeling you get by being one of those classes. Andromeda devalues these disciplines as a whole. More than any other Mass Effect powers just feel like pocket calculators now: just pick em' up and use em': nothin' to it. Sure, there's a lore excuse for Ryder, but that doesn't change the fact that powers, under this system, can't ever feel all that special. I suppose it doesn't help that I'm also tired of being "the one" in BioWare games. I don't want to be the "one dude who can do it all," just a humble specialist. Again, Mass Effect never did this all that well, but this, more than anything, is what BioWare should have tried to improve, not big open worlds and quirk characters.
|
|
inherit
535
0
4,337
clips7
MiNd...ExPaNsIoN....
1,829
August 2016
clips7
Blackgas7
|
Post by clips7 on Aug 25, 2017 17:02:19 GMT
Hmmm...i'm not sure. I kinda like how Andromeda was set up in that i could be a vanguard with overload and incendiary or that Cryo power that was really impressive....part of me wants to keep the old style since it keeps a certain categories separate...Soldier/ Vanguard...etc,... and again with Andromeda, i liked how you can pick your favorite powers and mix them up basically on the fly.....really kinda torn on this issue... Andromeda's combat would have been perfect if they have those whips *Smash Power* from my phoenix vanguard....
|
|
Ogred
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: AcCoUn7
XBL Gamertag: Grixdoor
Posts: 18 Likes: 19
inherit
9072
0
19
Ogred
18
Jul 24, 2017 20:19:10 GMT
July 2017
ogred
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
AcCoUn7
Grixdoor
|
Post by Ogred on Aug 25, 2017 17:08:33 GMT
MEA system plus the wheel. That would be perfect.
|
|
inherit
7836
0
2,286
shinobiwan
1,171
Apr 19, 2017 19:26:11 GMT
April 2017
shinobiwan
|
Post by shinobiwan on Aug 25, 2017 17:19:45 GMT
As everyone predicted at the outset, the classless system murdered any replay value this game may have had.
The mix and match system, and the ability to respec everything at any time, made it feel like every run was the same - especially because the scaling was so off. Weapons had an entire scaling vector that powers and combos lacked (weapon rank), and by the end of the game I was putting points into powers I would never use just to build up profile ranks. So there was never a point where there was some neat power that I couldn't access in my run around which to plan another playthrough.
One for MeA was enough for me. Contrast to 10+ playthroughs each for ME2 and ME3. Trying new combos of builds due to classes and bonus powers was what drew me back. Flare infiltrator using cloak to keep it on a 3-second cooldown, venom vanguard who could shoot while casting charge and nova, my "not-sentinel" soldier run using defense matrix and concussive shot to detonate, etc.
|
|
LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 909 Likes: 1,847
inherit
2060
0
1,847
LogicGunn
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
909
November 2016
logicgunn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LogicGunn
LogicGunn
|
Post by LogicGunn on Aug 25, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
This depends on who the next protag is.
If it's Ryder then obvs stick with MEA's systam. It (mostly) makes sense in the context of SAM, with the possible exception of the biotics-if the twins were biotic surely Ellen Ryder would have noticed what with her work on biotic implants? Her exposure to eezo could have made the twins biotic, as well as made her ill, but it's not in their history. (Little plot hole. I can look past it.)
If another protag altogether? I like the freedom to pick and choose skills, a lot. But for biotics powers it needs to be a yes/no thing. if you pick "yes I'm a biotic god" then perhaps some changes to the other skills like maybe your combat/tech skills are augmented by your biotic power in some way, while a non-biotic combat/tech skill are enhanced in a different way.
Does that make sense? Like your skill tree has a different set of options if you're biotic or not.
So same if it's Ruder, same but with changes if it's not.
|
|
inherit
5079
0
Nov 25, 2024 16:14:33 GMT
1,825
ShadowAngel
#more Asari
1,599
Mar 19, 2017 16:14:51 GMT
March 2017
uegshadowangel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
UEG ShadowAngel
|
Post by ShadowAngel on Aug 25, 2017 17:34:54 GMT
Don't care what they do so long as classes actually have a point to them. They don't in Andromeda and furthermore giving so much freedom with the classes is even more pointless if you still put restrictions on what and how many abilities you can use. 3? You serious?
|
|
inherit
✜ Theorymancer
2627
0
Jan 16, 2020 14:58:38 GMT
2,733
PillarBiter
2,366
January 2017
pillarbiter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
PillarBiter
|
Post by PillarBiter on Aug 25, 2017 17:35:45 GMT
Keep amdromeda's system, just change the 3 skill limit thing, or allow us to change between profiles more smoothly.
|
|
inherit
293
0
4,074
lilyenachaos
Don't grow up, it's a trap.
1,470
August 2016
lilyenachaos
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by lilyenachaos on Aug 25, 2017 17:37:21 GMT
I liked the system in MEA, it was fun - except for only having 3 active abilities, and the complete lack of squad control.
|
|
saMoorai
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 164 Likes: 383
inherit
652
0
Mar 15, 2021 23:09:41 GMT
383
saMoorai
164
August 2016
samoorai
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by saMoorai on Aug 25, 2017 17:37:31 GMT
Andromeda's system plus a power wheel would be ideal.
|
|
ozzie
N2
Posts: 144 Likes: 205
inherit
8404
0
Apr 28, 2019 10:19:06 GMT
205
ozzie
144
May 2017
ozzie
|
Post by ozzie on Aug 25, 2017 20:43:41 GMT
While it may be fun, the problem with the classless system is it reduces replay-ability, makes choosing squad mates for their abilities pointless and it totally lore breaking. So no, return to the fixed class system.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
36,892
colfoley
19,126
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Aug 25, 2017 20:59:04 GMT
Only change I'd make is having the profile swapping be instantaneous but make a cool down on when you can do it again.
|
|
LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 909 Likes: 1,847
inherit
2060
0
1,847
LogicGunn
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
909
November 2016
logicgunn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LogicGunn
LogicGunn
|
Post by LogicGunn on Aug 25, 2017 21:00:43 GMT
Only change I'd make is having the profile swapping be instantaneous but make a cool down on when you can do it again. That would have been a much better way to implement the profile system.
|
|
inherit
1129
0
Nov 25, 2024 23:55:29 GMT
2,052
traks
1,012
Aug 22, 2016 11:07:02 GMT
August 2016
traks
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
t_raks_99
|
Post by traks on Aug 25, 2017 21:11:28 GMT
While it may be fun, the problem with the classless system is it reduces replay-ability, makes choosing squad mates for their abilities pointless and it totally lore breaking. So no, return to the fixed class system. I don't get this, because for the powers to be effective you have to max them out and to be really effective you have to focus on passives after maxing out three to four powers. So first of all, although I have completed the game 5 times now with three different setups, there is still a lot of replayability through concentrating on other powers and secondly with only three to four (or if you want six active powers using two or more favorites let's say six) active powers I also don't see why you can't concentrate on a class from a role-play standpoint if you want? Although I agree that the power wheel for squadmates was a staple of ME - so I have nothing against it returning - squadmates still could be very useful (Cora's cryo ammo for example, or Peebees pull). In one playthrough you usually don't get to a point where it reduces replay-ability, so IMO it is a pretty cool system.
|
|
inherit
1129
0
Nov 25, 2024 23:55:29 GMT
2,052
traks
1,012
Aug 22, 2016 11:07:02 GMT
August 2016
traks
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
t_raks_99
|
Post by traks on Aug 25, 2017 21:12:07 GMT
Only change I'd make is having the profile swapping be instantaneous but make a cool down on when you can do it again. That would have been a much better way to implement the profile system. You guys mean favorites, right?
|
|
ioannisdenton
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
PSN: Demis_Denton
Posts: 654 Likes: 844
inherit
564
0
Jul 17, 2019 13:05:17 GMT
844
ioannisdenton
654
August 2016
ioannisdenton
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Demis_Denton
|
Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 25, 2017 21:14:58 GMT
MeA system kills erplay value. An aditional reason i played me2 10+ times was that i ROLEPLAYED as a different class in my mind every time. Sadly In MEA in one playthrough i could see all skills.. I HOPE DA4 DOES NOT INHERIT MEA CLASSLESS SYSTEM
|
|
inherit
1331
0
1,337
ProbeAway
1,014
August 2016
probeaway
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by ProbeAway on Aug 25, 2017 21:17:26 GMT
I said this in another thread yesterday: ----- I'd actually retain classes but create some flexibility within the class you choose. As Ryder, I really don't like that you can simply choose any power you want (even tho I can simply choose to ignore particular powers) because it makes the character's background/specialisation redundant and removes an aspect of the actual role playing. I know they used SAM to explain Ryder's broad ability set but the last thing this series needed was more space magic. So I'm a biotic god who also just happens to be a combat expert with the ability to cloak? Umm... ok then. I'd like to be able to choose between the 6 specialisations we had in the OT, but only be locked into the one class power (singularity, tactical cloak, charge, etc). The rest would be second tier powers selected from the applicable tree(s). Let's say that a player can choose 5 powers. They decide to pick the vanguard specialisation, which gives them charge and some unique vanguard passives. They would then select any two second-tier biotic abilities (eg pull and backlash) and any two second tier combat skills (eg concussive shot and frag grenade). The game could still have the OT option to get a bonus power too. I know people protest against putting limitations on the player but I feel like that has always been the point of role playing games - ie strengths vs weaknesses that are complimented by your team. Of course, that would require the return of proper squad control to work. ---- I would keep the ability to switch classes and power sets for NG+ tho. Also, everything RoboticWater said.
|
|
LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 909 Likes: 1,847
inherit
2060
0
1,847
LogicGunn
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
909
November 2016
logicgunn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LogicGunn
LogicGunn
|
Post by LogicGunn on Aug 25, 2017 21:49:29 GMT
That would have been a much better way to implement the profile system. You guys mean favorites, right? I mean profile loadouts. Why, what do you think I mean?
|
|
ozzie
N2
Posts: 144 Likes: 205
inherit
8404
0
Apr 28, 2019 10:19:06 GMT
205
ozzie
144
May 2017
ozzie
|
Post by ozzie on Aug 25, 2017 21:56:37 GMT
While it may be fun, the problem with the classless system is it reduces replay-ability, makes choosing squad mates for their abilities pointless and it totally lore breaking. So no, return to the fixed class system. I don't get this, because for the powers to be effective you have to max them out and to be really effective you have to focus on passives after maxing out three to four powers. So first of all, although I have completed the game 5 times now with three different setups, there is still a lot of replayability through concentrating on other powers and secondly with only three to four (or if you want six active powers using two or more favorites let's say six) active powers I also don't see why you can't concentrate on a class from a role-play standpoint if you want? Although I agree that the power wheel for squadmates was a staple of ME - so I have nothing against it returning - squadmates still could be very useful (Cora's cryo ammo for example, or Peebees pull). In one playthrough you usually don't get to a point where it reduces replay-ability, so IMO it is a pretty cool system. Nah, there are lots of powers that effective from level one, some Biotics immediately take an enemy off the field for instance, and as for just RPing a class, there isn't enough skills in a single class because the game wasn't built that way IIRC I had maxed out everything I wanted from my class by the third world, by time I had unlocked the last couple of worlds I had 3 class profiles in my repertoire with 3 maxed out skills in each and was just racking up level points that I couldn't be arsed to assign to anything as I would never use them. I never chose squad mates to compliment my abilities, because A) I could just take whatever ability it was myself and B] couldn't trigger it on them even if I wanted to. In the MET, I had squad mates for specific roles, Tali if I knew I was going to be fighting Geth (obviously) Garrus, if I was expecting mercs, Mordin or Jack for Reapers and Collectors. In ME:A I only changed squad mates when I got bored of their banter.
|
|
LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 909 Likes: 1,847
inherit
2060
0
1,847
LogicGunn
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
909
November 2016
logicgunn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LogicGunn
LogicGunn
|
Post by LogicGunn on Aug 25, 2017 21:58:43 GMT
I said this in another thread yesterday: ----- I'd actually retain classes but create some flexibility within the class you choose. As Ryder, I really don't like that you can simply choose any power you want (even tho I can simply choose to ignore particular powers) because it makes the character's background/specialisation redundant and removes an aspect of the actual role playing. I know they used SAM to explain Ryder's broad ability set but the last thing this series needed was more space magic. So I'm a biotic god who also just happens to be a combat expert with the ability to cloak? Umm... ok then. I'd like to be able to choose between the 6 specialisations we had in the OT, but only be locked into the one class power (singularity, tactical cloak, charge, etc). The rest would be second tier powers selected from the applicable tree(s). Let's say that a player can choose 5 powers. They decide to pick the vanguard specialisation, which gives them charge and some unique vanguard passives. They would then select any two second-tier biotic abilities (eg pull and backlash) and any two second tier combat skills (eg concussive shot and frag grenade). The game could still have the OT option to get a bonus power too. I know people protest against putting limitations on the player but I feel like that has always been the point of role playing games - ie strengths vs weaknesses that are complimented by your team. Of course, that would require the return of proper squad control to work. ---- I would keep the ability to switch classes and power sets for NG+ tho. Also, everything RoboticWater said. That's not a bad idea. Some kind of player choice but with limits. I think that was the idea behind the 3 skills per loadout with a cooldown, but it just ends up being annoying. So annoying I defaulted to my usual headshot sniping and mostly ignored the skills.
|
|
inherit
1274
0
3,438
sageoflife
1,576
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sageoflife on Aug 25, 2017 22:07:54 GMT
The main thing I would change is to decrease the max level so we can't just master everything if we do enough playthroughs.
|
|