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Post by Steelcan on Jan 27, 2017 17:59:59 GMT
when it comes to foiling the plans of Elven!Hitler yeah sure, why not Eh, there are other people I'd rather foil. At the moment, primarily Vivienne. Vivienne isn't threatening to tear the fabric of the world apart, and all hopes you may have for a non-genocidal method of doing it are likely to come to naught.
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 27, 2017 18:03:52 GMT
Eh, there are other people I'd rather foil. At the moment, primarily Vivienne. Vivienne isn't threatening to tear the fabric of the world apart, and all hopes you may have for a non-genocidal method of doing it are likely to come to naught. Well... in the end, as an elf, what have the humans ever done for me, that I should go out of my way to save them?
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Post by Steelcan on Jan 27, 2017 18:08:37 GMT
Vivienne isn't threatening to tear the fabric of the world apart, and all hopes you may have for a non-genocidal method of doing it are likely to come to naught. Well... in the end, as an elf, what have the humans ever done for me, that I should go out of my way to save them? Well... in the end, as a human, what have the elves done for me, that I should go out of my way and prevent the inevitable reprisals after Solas's plans fail to come to fruition
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 27, 2017 18:11:23 GMT
Well... in the end, as an elf, what have the humans ever done for me, that I should go out of my way to save them? Well... in the end, as a human, what have the elves done for me, that I should go out of my way and prevent the inevitable reprisals after Solas's plans fail to come to fruition You say that as though there'll be any. You also say it as though it was an answer to my question, which, I regret to inform you, it was not.
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Post by Steelcan on Jan 27, 2017 18:14:31 GMT
Well... in the end, as a human, what have the elves done for me, that I should go out of my way and prevent the inevitable reprisals after Solas's plans fail to come to fruition You say that as though there'll be any. You also say it as though it was an answer to my question, which, I regret to inform you, it was not. You want to drag down the veil to help the elves reclaim their glory I guess is the word for it, I want to hang every elf who followed Solas and line them up on the Imperial Highway ala Spartacus, bith outcomes are unlikely to actually come about as we would like them to. As for answering your question, given that Solas is clearly going to be an antagonist, whether he can be redeemed or not, his plans will inevitably be foiled, so the entire point about saving humans from the destruction of the Veil is moot.
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 27, 2017 18:16:17 GMT
You say that as though there'll be any. You also say it as though it was an answer to my question, which, I regret to inform you, it was not. You want to drag down the veil to help the elves reclaim their glory I guess is the word for it, I want to hang every elf who followed Solas and line them up on the Imperial Highway ala Spartacus, bith outcomes are unlikely to actually come about as we would like them to. As for answering your question, given that Solas is clearly going to be an antagonist, whether he can be redeemed or not, his plans will inevitably be foiled, so the entire point about saving humans from the destruction of the Veil is moot. Actually, I've heard rumblings that it might be possible to side with Solas. Destroying the world as a whole won't happen, but lowering the Veil and drastically altering the setting for future games may very well.
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Post by Steelcan on Jan 27, 2017 18:18:03 GMT
You want to drag down the veil to help the elves reclaim their glory I guess is the word for it, I want to hang every elf who followed Solas and line them up on the Imperial Highway ala Spartacus, bith outcomes are unlikely to actually come about as we would like them to. As for answering your question, given that Solas is clearly going to be an antagonist, whether he can be redeemed or not, his plans will inevitably be foiled, so the entire point about saving humans from the destruction of the Veil is moot. Actually, I've heard rumblings that it might be possible to side with Solas. Destroying the world as a whole won't happen, but lowering the Veil and drastically altering the setting for future games may very well. Yes, because BioWare has a long and proud history of embracing massive changes to their setting and not side-stepping them or sweeping them under the rug.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 18:18:39 GMT
Redeem. I always redeem everyone who we aren't forced to kill. Makes it more interesting!
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 27, 2017 18:20:19 GMT
Actually, I've heard rumblings that it might be possible to side with Solas. Destroying the world as a whole won't happen, but lowering the Veil and drastically altering the setting for future games may very well. Yes, because BioWare has a long and proud history of embracing massive changes to their setting and not side-stepping them or sweeping them under the rug. You say that as if MEA isn't a thing. Southern Thedas is already milked dry, and northern Thedas can... maybe give two games with the current status quo.
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Post by Steelcan on Jan 27, 2017 18:25:04 GMT
Yes, because BioWare has a long and proud history of embracing massive changes to their setting and not side-stepping them or sweeping them under the rug. You say that as if MEA isn't a thing. Southern Thedas is already milked dry, and northern Thedas can... maybe give two games with the current status quo. Yes ME:A is a thing, they completely ignored a world changing event and decided to run off to a new galaxy rather than explore the implications of the changes. And yes the status quo will have to change, likely through a Qunari invasion that overruns a majority of Thedas, or maybe a time jump to a new level of technology and issues that could go with it, or maybe another Blight.
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 27, 2017 18:26:26 GMT
You say that as if MEA isn't a thing. Southern Thedas is already milked dry, and northern Thedas can... maybe give two games with the current status quo. Yes ME:A is a thing, they completely ignored a world changing event and decided to run off to a new galaxy rather than explore the implications of the changes. And yes the status quo will have to change, likely through a Qunari invasion that overruns a majority of Thedas, or maybe a time jump to a new level of technology and issues that could go with it, or maybe another Blight. Exploring the implications thereof would have been outright impossible given the three options. A qunari invasion will happen but will be defeated by the player, the time jump will never happen at all because it'd destroy the point of the Dragon Age title, and another Blight would be rather dull and samey compared to the Veil dropping.
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Post by Steelcan on Jan 27, 2017 18:31:48 GMT
Yes ME:A is a thing, they completely ignored a world changing event and decided to run off to a new galaxy rather than explore the implications of the changes. And yes the status quo will have to change, likely through a Qunari invasion that overruns a majority of Thedas, or maybe a time jump to a new level of technology and issues that could go with it, or maybe another Blight. Exploring the implications thereof would have been outright impossible given the three options. A qunari invasion will happen but will be defeated by the player, the time jump will never happen at all because it'd destroy the point of the Dragon Age title, and another Blight would be rather dull and samey compared to the Veil dropping. They could have just rolled with one ending and gone with it, they've done it before, let's not act as if they can't come up with a new name for a potential game to be set in the future, I don't give BioWare much credit but I think they can manage that, and BioWare is pretty damn unoriginal when it comes to their plots, rehashing a blight but putting some sort of twist on it I think is far more likely than account for the complete altering the state of the setting which may not even be universal across game states. More likely a redemption of Solas will involve him coming to terms with the person hood of modern elves and people and not the restoration of his time
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 27, 2017 18:33:09 GMT
Exploring the implications thereof would have been outright impossible given the three options. A qunari invasion will happen but will be defeated by the player, the time jump will never happen at all because it'd destroy the point of the Dragon Age title, and another Blight would be rather dull and samey compared to the Veil dropping. They could have just rolled with one ending and gone with it, they've done it before, let's not act as if they can't come up with a new name for a potential game to be set in the future, I don't give BioWare much credit but I think they can manage that, and BioWare is pretty damn unoriginal when it comes to their plots, rehashing a blight but putting some sort of twist on it I think is far more likely than account for the complete altering the state of the setting which may not even be universal across game states. More likely a redemption of Solas will involve him coming to terms with the person hood of modern elves and people and not the restoration of his time So what would your reaction be if Solas winds up winning and dropping the Veil in a way that doesn't kill everyone?
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Post by Steelcan on Jan 27, 2017 18:35:49 GMT
They could have just rolled with one ending and gone with it, they've done it before, let's not act as if they can't come up with a new name for a potential game to be set in the future, I don't give BioWare much credit but I think they can manage that, and BioWare is pretty damn unoriginal when it comes to their plots, rehashing a blight but putting some sort of twist on it I think is far more likely than account for the complete altering the state of the setting which may not even be universal across game states. More likely a redemption of Solas will involve him coming to terms with the person hood of modern elves and people and not the restoration of his time So what would your reaction be if Solas winds up winning and dropping the Veil in a way that doesn't kill everyone? disappointment in BioWare's writing for one
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 27, 2017 18:37:49 GMT
So what would your reaction be if Solas winds up winning and dropping the Veil in a way that doesn't kill everyone? disappointment in BioWare's writing for one Why so, given that you admitted that the whole Blight idea would be unoriginal?
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Post by Steelcan on Jan 27, 2017 18:44:20 GMT
disappointment in BioWare's writing for one Why so, given that you admitted that the whole Blight idea would be unoriginal? I expect unoriginal writing from BioWare but not necessarily bad writing, and an option for Solas to tear down the veil and not cause large scale damage would be bad writing. It would undermine his complexity as a character and the dilemma that he admits to in Trespasser; as I doubt he would be doing his violent tearing down if he could help it. It would cheapen any sort of sense of achievement against Solas since there is really no reason to be fighting him if everything can be worked out well. Really it just comes across as the sort of writing you'd see in bad fanfiction where there are no hard decisions to be made by the characters, everything turns out ok in the end, and would likely come across as contrived for the benefit of players who like Solas more than serving the direction of the franchise.
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 27, 2017 18:47:10 GMT
Why so, given that you admitted that the whole Blight idea would be unoriginal? I expect unoriginal writing from BioWare but not necessarily bad writing, and an option for Solas to tear down the veil and not cause large scale damage would be bad writing. It would undermine his complexity as a character and the dilemma that he admits to in Trespasser; as I doubt he would be doing his violent tearing down if he could help it. It would cheapen any sort of sense of achievement against Solas since there is really no reason to be fighting him if everything can be worked out well. Really it just comes across as the sort of writing you'd see in bad fanfiction where there are no hard decisions to be made by the characters, everything turns out ok in the end, and would likely come across as contrived for the benefit of players who like Solas more than serving the direction of the franchise. The hard part, presumably, would be spending the fourth game trying to find a way to mitigate the damage.
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Post by Steelcan on Jan 27, 2017 18:50:03 GMT
I expect unoriginal writing from BioWare but not necessarily bad writing, and an option for Solas to tear down the veil and not cause large scale damage would be bad writing. It would undermine his complexity as a character and the dilemma that he admits to in Trespasser; as I doubt he would be doing his violent tearing down if he could help it. It would cheapen any sort of sense of achievement against Solas since there is really no reason to be fighting him if everything can be worked out well. Really it just comes across as the sort of writing you'd see in bad fanfiction where there are no hard decisions to be made by the characters, everything turns out ok in the end, and would likely come across as contrived for the benefit of players who like Solas more than serving the direction of the franchise. The hard part, presumably, would be spending the fourth game trying to find a way to mitigate the damage. Except that is not one of the goals that we know we can aim for, its speculation (based on whatever rumors it is you've been hearing). So far we know that right now the Inquisitor can be planning to either kill Solas or try and get him to back off of this idea, that's about it.
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 27, 2017 18:51:11 GMT
The hard part, presumably, would be spending the fourth game trying to find a way to mitigate the damage. Except that is not one of the goals that we know we can aim for, its speculation (based on whatever rumors it is you've been hearing). So far we know that right now the Inquisitor can be planning to either kill Solas or try and get him to back off of this idea, that's about it. Yes, but the Inquisitor won't be the one true PC of the fourth game.
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Post by Steelcan on Jan 27, 2017 18:58:21 GMT
Except that is not one of the goals that we know we can aim for, its speculation (based on whatever rumors it is you've been hearing). So far we know that right now the Inquisitor can be planning to either kill Solas or try and get him to back off of this idea, that's about it. Yes, but the Inquisitor won't be the one true PC of the fourth game. But they're using the Inquisitor to set the stage for the next game, like after DA2 there wasn't an option to bring the mages and templars together at the table and get them to agree on some sort of new state of things.
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Post by xerrai on Jan 27, 2017 22:59:15 GMT
Why so, given that you admitted that the whole Blight idea would be unoriginal? I expect unoriginal writing from BioWare but not necessarily bad writing, and an option for Solas to tear down the veil and not cause large scale damage would be bad writing. It would undermine his complexity as a character and the dilemma that he admits to in Trespasser; as I doubt he would be doing his violent tearing down if he could help it. It would cheapen any sort of sense of achievement against Solas since there is really no reason to be fighting him if everything can be worked out well. Really it just comes across as the sort of writing you'd see in bad fanfiction where there are no hard decisions to be made by the characters, everything turns out ok in the end, and would likely come across as contrived for the benefit of players who like Solas more than serving the direction of the franchise. Actually, if it was an option, it be ok from a writing sense if there were several mandatory/difficult prerequisites to the point that only like, say 5% of players actually meet the requirements. Preferably with considerable sacrifice at the player's expense.
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Post by Destructive Deer on Jan 29, 2017 3:21:27 GMT
I'm with Steelcan on this one, even if plausible, even if not a bad writing thing, tearing down the Veil is not going to happen.
Tearing down or not tearing down the Veil changes the entirety of Thedas too much for both options to exist in the game. Any game set in the time after that event would not be possible, they would essentially have to create two completely different games. It either has to be one or the other.
And I doubt they're going with the "tearing down the Veil" option only because that literally means the fourth game is completely pointless.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 29, 2017 3:40:05 GMT
At the end of Trespasser, did you pick the try to redeem Solas option, or are you just going to try to have him killed? My elven protagonist, Revas, would try to redeem him. If it came down to choosing between the People or Solas, however, he would make the difficult choice to save the Elvhen over his friend. As to the choice that would be made by a new main character, that would depend entirely on what kind of person could be created, the possible motivations that could be presented by the story, and what would make the most sense from a roleplay perspective for this person to pursue. Such a character may not even align with Revas.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 29, 2017 3:49:57 GMT
My Adaar is willing to stop him at all costs. Even putting aside the whole Veil-tearing destruction of the world bit, everything that happened at the Conclave - everyone that died there - is his fault, as far as she's concerned. And he doesn't show nearly enough remorse! (To quote the wife: "Bad things should happen to bad people.") And he's willing to kill everyone who isn't the right kind of elf. She will never forgive herself if the world suffers because she couldn't stop him.
My Cadash, on the other hand, is the forgiving sort. Her rise from Carta thug to Inquisitor was one big redemption arc, she gave the Wardens a second chance, gave Blackwall a second chance, etc. And Solas's calm reassurance meant so much to her when she was terrified of all this weird magic glowing in her hand. She knows he can be redeemed. She will never forgive herself if she can't get through to him.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 29, 2017 4:15:17 GMT
If you want to quote the lore, it'd be prudent if you did so acurately. Corypheus dodn't say anything about the City being Black - he referred to the darkness trapped within. And yes - the Golden City turned to Black after Cory and his team entered it: it change and Blight appeared in the world. That is a Change through major C. Tranquils don't have a special connection with Titans or Stone dwarves have and whatever has crippled dwarves has obviously not crippled them to the level of Tranquil. This is not a speculation. Dagna tells us outright that Lyrium and Fade are linked. Actually, I'm pretty sure that Coryphaeus did say the city was already black when he got there. This was something that was discussed when Legacy was released as well. Corypheus gives dialogue that suggests that the City was already Black when the Magisters entered it, meaning that the Chantry may be wrong.
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