inherit
1587
0
1,671
Walter Black
1,253
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
September 2016
walterblack
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Post by Walter Black on Mar 1, 2018 15:03:58 GMT
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inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Mar 8, 2018 18:31:48 GMT
Hmmm, why I kinda agree with Chuck's criticism that Hawke does lack some character motivation after Act 1, I do disagree with his assessment that Hawke continuing to do the same stuff in Act 2 and 3 is because they "don't have a life". After the Deep Roads Expedition, Hawke was set up financially for life, so the money from these jobs definitely isn't needed. I'd suggest that what motivates Hawke is a mixture of having developed a strong work ethic growing up poor, and that the prospect of resting on their laurels now they've made it, would probably drive them round the bend.
(Because, compared to the other nobles in Kirkwall, at least they actually DO something)
Varric is exactly the same in this regard. He shares the level of wealth as Hawke (if not being even wealthier), but prefers to live in a dive bar and "occasionally shoot people", in-between writing novels. Vivienne and Sera even call him out on this in DAI, questioning why someone who is obviously a member of the nobility plays at being poor?
I'd say that for both Hawke and Varric, they don't work because they have to, but because they want to. Inaction and remaining idle is simply not within either of their characters.
That's what drove Hawke to choose to pursue lead of Red Lyrium and Corypheus in Inquisition, as well as what drove Varric to choose to stay with the Inquisition. Neither could sit by without lending a hand, especially when it became clear this mess was one they were partially responsible for.
Chuck also seems to forget that the game does imply that Hawke engages in various humdrum activities outside of the game's narrative, such as the various functions and balls that Leandra is suggested to drag them to (and later is forced to attend as Champion). Potentially running the Bone Pit with Hubert, teaching Fenris how to read and helping Isabela chase leads on the relic also happen completely offscreen. Is Hawke more reactive than proactive as a character? Definitely yes, and whether or not that's a good thing for a protagonist is definitely debatable. And I will concede that Chuck does raise a good point that Hawke's importance is questionable, since they do not control or influence how events play out, and said events might have still occurred even if they never got involved. But then, I'd also argue the same thing is true of the Inquisitor's importance diminishing once the Breach was sealed. If Cassandra had become leader of the Inquisition and we had been relegated to the "Rift-closing sidekick" at that point, would anything really have changed in how events played out?
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inherit
1587
0
1,671
Walter Black
1,253
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
September 2016
walterblack
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Post by Walter Black on Mar 9, 2018 14:32:13 GMT
Hmmm, why I kinda agree with Chuck's criticism that Hawke does lack some character motivation after Act 1, I do disagree with his assessment that Hawke continuing to do the same stuff in Act 2 and 3 is because they "don't have a life". After the Deep Roads Expedition, Hawke was set up financially for life, so the money from these jobs definitely isn't needed. I'd suggest that what motivates Hawke is a mixture of having developed a strong work ethic growing up poor, and that the prospect of resting on their laurels now they've made it, would probably drive them round the bend.
(Because, compared to the other nobles in Kirkwall, at least they actually DO something)
Varric is exactly the same in this regard. He shares the level of wealth as Hawke (if not being even wealthier), but prefers to live in a dive bar and "occasionally shoot people", in-between writing novels. Vivienne and Sera even call him out on this in DAI, questioning why someone who is obviously a member of the nobility plays at being poor?
I'd say that for both Hawke and Varric, they don't work because they have to, but because they want to. Inaction and remaining idle is simply not within either of their characters.
That's what drove Hawke to choose to pursue lead of Red Lyrium and Corypheus in Inquisition, as well as what drove Varric to choose to stay with the Inquisition. Neither could sit by without lending a hand, especially when it became clear this mess was one they were partially responsible for.
Chuck also seems to forget that the game does imply that Hawke engages in various humdrum activities outside of the game's narrative, such as the various functions and balls that Leandra is suggested to drag them to (and later is forced to attend as Champion). Potentially running the Bone Pit with Hubert, teaching Fenris how to read and helping Isabela chase leads on the relic also happen completely offscreen. Is Hawke more reactive than proactive as a character? Definitely yes, and whether or not that's a good thing for a protagonist is definitely debatable. And I will concede that Chuck does raise a good point that Hawke's importance is questionable, since they do not control or influence how events play out, and said events might have still occurred even if they never got involved. But then, I'd also argue the same thing is true of the Inquisitor's importance diminishing once the Breach was sealed. If Cassandra had become leader of the Inquisition and we had been relegated to the "Rift-closing sidekick" at that point, would anything really have changed in how events played out? I can't speak for Chuck, but I think part of the problem with Hawkes's agency, or lack thereof, is player choice and context. I don't count all the stuff off screen since it's out of the player's control. If we are going to stay in Kirkwall, we should take an active part in it, whether making political deals among the nobles, influencing and improving society from within, become a master criminal, or ally with the fringe elements for revolution. Every other character gets involved with these things, but we don't even get the opportunity, as if the game is forcing our characters not to care one way or the other. Honestly, I initially thought when we chose the Red Irons or the smugglers early on, it would have lasting effects. The Irons wanted to ingratiate themselves with the nobility and cultivate political power, and the smugglers helped the downtrodden, in their own way. But both fell flat, since we didn't need them anymore. Giving us actual reasons to care and stay in Kirkwall after if took so much would've helped a lot.
I just noticed that Chuck didn't do Aveline, Merrill, or Anders' Act 2 Personal Quests; is he saving them for more in depth character reviews, or is just burnt out on the game and just want to get it over with?
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inherit
1407
0
Sept 2, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
4,343
shechinah
Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
2,584
Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Mar 14, 2018 1:48:06 GMT
1. I can't speak for Chuck, but I think part of the problem with Hawkes's agency, or lack thereof, is player choice and context. I don't count all the stuff off screen since it's out of the player's control. If we are going to stay in Kirkwall, we should take an active part in it, whether making political deals among the nobles, influencing and improving society from within, become a master criminal, or ally with the fringe elements for revolution. Every other character gets involved with these things, but we don't even get the opportunity, as if the game is forcing our characters not to care one way or the other. Honestly, I initially thought when we chose the Red Irons or the smugglers early on, it would have lasting effects. The Irons wanted to ingratiate themselves with the nobility and cultivate political power, and the smugglers helped the downtrodden, in their own way. But both fell flat, since we didn't need them anymore. Giving us actual reasons to care and stay in Kirkwall after if took so much would've helped a lot.
2. I just noticed that Chuck didn't do Aveline, Merrill, or Anders' Act 2 Personal Quests; is he saving them for more in depth character reviews, or is just burnt out on the game and just want to get it over with?
1. I can definitely see where Chuck is coming from and I have to agree with both of you. You phrase why better than I could. There was also something about Hawke's character that bothered me but which I could never quite put my finger on. I think it may be this. 2. He usually doesn't neglect character analyses so I think he may be saving them for when he talks about the companions individually. I seem to remember that's how he did it with KOTOR: when he reached a certain point, he would talk about one of the characters and bring up information like, say, from their personal mission. Basically, so a character analysis would be gathered in one video and not spread across several ones. Despite his self-deprecative jokes and the way this game is making him weary, he does hold himself to a certain standard of quality so I can't really see him skipping past personal quests.
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inherit
1407
0
Sept 2, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
4,343
shechinah
Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
2,584
Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Mar 14, 2018 1:58:15 GMT
But then, I'd also argue the same thing is true of the Inquisitor's importance diminishing once the Breach was sealed. If Cassandra had become leader of the Inquisition and we had been relegated to the "Rift-closing sidekick" at that point, would anything really have changed in how events played out?The thing is that the Inquisitor did impact, well, things. Yes, they are reacting to events around them but the way they respond to said events matter. To name one thing, they can change the throne in Orlais including to suit their own personal agenda that is independent from their overall agenda of saving the world. For example, an elven Inquisitor can help Briala to the throne in the hopes that elves across the country would benefit. Hawke was never really allowed to try and influence Kirkwall. This is rather disappointing because Hawke rises to a position of nobility wherein they might have been able to and on a daily basis, they experience reminders that there are people who are in need. Through dialogue options, Hawke can even establish themselves as someone who does care about the little people.
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inherit
1407
0
Sept 2, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
4,343
shechinah
Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
2,584
Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Mar 14, 2018 2:02:25 GMT
I watched then first part and it was fun indeed. I doubt I have time for the whole series though. I vehemently disagree on Loghain/Alistair though. Riordan have been treated very badly by Loghain/Howe indeed but has not been dealt as harshly as the Warden and Alistair. I agree that Alistair is driven by vengeance. More so than the warden (who as a player can chose another path) BUT we don't need Loghain. Loghain isn't needed to save the kingdom. I can't really agree with that since Riordan was tortured for who knows how long by Howe and he lost his Fereldan comrades. I wouldn't say one was dealt a harsher hand than the other: they both suffered just in different ways. Note: Wynne can state that it must have been a year since a mage Warden has left the circle so depending on when Riordan was sent to Ferelden, he could been in Howe's private torture chamber for something like half a year and possibly longer.
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inherit
1587
0
1,671
Walter Black
1,253
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
September 2016
walterblack
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 17, 2018 18:26:16 GMT
Chuck has started reviewing Dragon Age 2 Act 3: www.sfdebris.com/videos/games/dragonage2c.phpDamn, if this whole "art imitates life" vibe goes any longer, I would say Chuck should hurry to Inquisition, since one of the main complaints of that game was how it handed the player success after success, as opposed to Hawke's lack of lasting achievement .
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inherit
1587
0
1,671
Walter Black
1,253
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
September 2016
walterblack
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 28, 2018 17:58:47 GMT
And thus concludes Chuck Sonnenburg's review of Dragon Age 2 . Along with agreeing with most of his criticisms, I lament how I was unfortunately right in one regard; due to Chuck's recent limited mobility, he couldn't micromanage as many characters at once, at least in any meaningful way to keep his filming deadlines. Thus, since Isabella was redundant to his Rogue Hawke, he never secured enough of her Friendship or Rivalry to keep her for Act 3. Something I feel would have been easier if DA2 had kept Origins' class versatility instead of pigeonholing everyone. In railing against DA2's rushed development, Chuck came up with an interesting alternative, that Bioware should have released it episodically, like Telltale Games. Do you think it would have made the game better? Maybe in some alternate reality... Oh, and summing up his entire DA2 experience set to Genesis' "Land of Confusion"? Pure Gold .
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