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Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Aug 9, 2018 19:29:25 GMT
Now this is science, a PhD using the scientific method. Very professional and very detailed. If anyone can find any flaws, please discuss. EDIT - it got a re-upload with a correction. Observation: The first video was deleted. Purportedly because of "spelling errors". The second video has comments disabled. Hypothesis: The uploader has a desire to abolish damaging comments. As for the video itself, it pretends there are three hypotheses to explain a claimed observation, and presents these. Then claims only the third explains the observation, and since this relies on a flat earth... Nope! This is NOT the scientific method. First problem is that none of the hypotheses seems viable (haven't spent much time on this, fastforwarded the video), and the third one certainly isn't. Why not? Because they rely on assuming things which we already know are wrong. And they assume these things based upon the observation itself. You can't acquire knowledge that way. A hypothesis can only be strengthened by testing it against other observations. And when something doesn't fit, it destroys the hypothesis. You can't prove a hypothesis, but you can certainly very immediately disprove it. You cannot stay, blindsided inside a fixed observation to provide for making multiple assumptions which are inconsistent with other observations . The earth's surface is not flat, it's curved. And air cannot refract light that much. The second problem is that I don't see that the observation is really consistent with the third hypothesis. It's a sloppy claim. It's not. The image shouldn't look like that. So lets go back to Phaedrus law: Another hypothesis: Double reflection. A mirage reflection of a reflection in water. I don't see any inconsistencies. ...But it really doesn't matter. The point is that there are an indefinite and very large number of alternative hypotheses. The Scientific method is to test the hypothesis, again and again, basically in eternity. If it ever fails the test only once, it's disproved. If it doesn't, it becomes stronger, eventually accepted as fact. "Fact" is exactly that. The hypothesis that the Earth is flat has already been disproved many, many times. We have no further use for it. The challenge for the flat-earthers is not to contrive isolated examples where wild assumptions are made in order to make it seem as a flat surface is part of a hypothesis. Their challenge is to disprove that the Earth is a sphere. That's never been done and I don't hold my breath. ...And I resent that you've made me spend time on this. P.S. Edit: Update: I got suspicious of what kind of comment he wanted to remove with his video shuffling. So I did my own math and there is actually a clear line of sight from the telescope to the tower. Which kinda totally crashes the entire basis for all of it.
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 9, 2018 21:01:52 GMT
So what's your viable hypothesis?
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Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Aug 10, 2018 5:54:14 GMT
So what's your viable hypothesis? That there's nothing funny going on at all. A few comments on his photography: A competent photograph of lights or an illuminated structure at night is much clearer and more distinct than the same view in daylight. This is because light from the sun is not spread by the atmosphere into the light from the view. We should have been able to clearly see what the image really depicts. He doesn't offer a comparative image of the view under daylight conditions. I strongly suspect that is entirely intentional. He doesn't offer details on exposure or how the camera was interfaced with the telescope. The image is out of focus and contains camera movement blur. My guess is that he used the camera as an eye at the ocular and used automatic settings. The image is essentially useless and that uselessness forms the basis for the perceived "mystery".
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 10, 2018 10:27:58 GMT
Still haven't explained your viable hypothesis to why lights beyond the standard model of Earth curvature can be observed.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 10, 2018 22:09:42 GMT
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 11, 2018 2:26:38 GMT
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Post by Lady Artifice on Aug 11, 2018 3:00:07 GMT
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Post by Lavochkin on Aug 11, 2018 3:37:52 GMT
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 11, 2018 11:18:40 GMT
I support the finding of new drugs and medicines for modern problems. Obesity crisis? Bullshit. It is a lazy crisis. If that offends anybody, good.
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 11, 2018 15:14:18 GMT
There are claims that eating just raw fruits/vegetables melts weight away and you can eat as much as you want.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 13,331 Likes: 30,906
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 11, 2018 16:43:54 GMT
If that offends anybody, good.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 11, 2018 22:41:27 GMT
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Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Aug 12, 2018 4:18:24 GMT
Still haven't explained your viable hypothesis to why lights beyond the standard model of Earth curvature can be observed. He has not demonstrated that "lights beyond the standard model of Earth curvature can be observed", in his example. (But we do know that such is possible, the well known mirage phenomenon, which is a reflection, not a refraction.)
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Aug 12, 2018 4:20:25 GMT
I don't understand this.
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 12, 2018 11:42:57 GMT
Still haven't explained your viable hypothesis to why lights beyond the standard model of Earth curvature can be observed. He has not demonstrated that "lights beyond the standard model of Earth curvature can be observed", in his example. (But we do know that such is possible, the well known mirage phenomenon, which is a reflection, not a refraction.) ^ Above is a short one minute clip of a weatherman explaining that we shouldn't be able to see the Chicago skyline over a 45 mile lake, that what we're seeing is a mirage. Great, now if you so kindly could explain the science behind how a mirage can loom over the curvature of the Earth and not be inverted, bevesthda.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 12, 2018 14:11:56 GMT
I don't understand this. Did you read the article I linked, and not just the quoted part? This is a case of trying to solve one problem, fail, and figure out something important in the process. Again, from the article: If you don't know much about electricity, that is ok. Suffice to say electricity and electronics are deriving their power from electrons. We want speedy transfer of electrons, but we cannot afford the heat (resistance) that normally comes with that increased motility. Through new materials and better understanding of the process, we will make a better GPU/CPU than we could before, and this will be another thing that helps motivate quantum computing. Resistance is measured in Ohm's. Ohm's Law Compels You! Edit: I hadn't had my coffee yet. B. Hieronymus Da, you understand this better than I do, I would bet good money on it. I am just an electrician, I barely understand it myself.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Aug 12, 2018 21:00:08 GMT
He has not demonstrated that "lights beyond the standard model of Earth curvature can be observed", in his example. (But we do know that such is possible, the well known mirage phenomenon, which is a reflection, not a refraction.) ^ Above is a short one minute clip of a weatherman explaining that we shouldn't be able to see the Chicago skyline over a 45 mile lake, that what we're seeing is a mirage. Great, now if you so kindly could explain the science behind how a mirage can loom over the curvature of the Earth and not be inverted, bevesthda. (In passing: A mirage of light reflections in the water. But don't hang on that, because:) Again: He hasn't demonstrated that "lights beyond the standard model of Earth curvature can be observed".
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 12, 2018 21:17:00 GMT
^ Above is a short one minute clip of a weatherman explaining that we shouldn't be able to see the Chicago skyline over a 45 mile lake, that what we're seeing is a mirage. Great, now if you so kindly could explain the science behind how a mirage can loom over the curvature of the Earth and not be inverted, bevesthda. (In passing: A mirage of light reflections in the water. But don't hang on that, because:) Again: He hasn't demonstrated that "lights beyond the standard model of Earth curvature can be observed". Are you dismissing those photographs?
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Aug 13, 2018 5:22:33 GMT
(In passing: A mirage of light reflections in the water. But don't hang on that, because:) Again: He hasn't demonstrated that "lights beyond the standard model of Earth curvature can be observed". Are you dismissing those photographs? Yep. And I wouldn't call them photographs. I've done that myself, trying to interface a camera with a telescope. You get a bunch of blotches of light that have very little to do with the image that maybe eventually come into focus, same with microscope. I believe that with a sharp image, there wouldn't have been any mystery.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Aug 13, 2018 5:37:51 GMT
I don't understand this. Did you read the article I linked, and not just the quoted part? This is a case of trying to solve one problem, fail, and figure out something important in the process. Again, from the article: If you don't know much about electricity, that is ok. Suffice to say electricity and electronics are deriving their power from electrons. We want speedy transfer of electrons, but we cannot afford the heat (resistance) that normally comes with that increased motility. Through new materials and better understanding of the process, we will make a better GPU/CPU than we could before, and this will be another thing that helps motivate quantum computing. Resistance is measured in Ohm's. Ohm's Law Compels You! Edit: I hadn't had my coffee yet. B. Hieronymus Da , you understand this better than I do, I would bet good money on it. I am just an electrician, I barely understand it myself. Lol. Electricity is no problem. It's all this stuff about slow and fast and "liquid" electrons. Nobody mentioned that when I went to school. But obviously it has to do with the very large power leakages we see in the latest IC extreme miniaturization, like modern generation CPUs and GPUs. I can guess as much.
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 13, 2018 10:54:14 GMT
Are you dismissing those photographs? Yep. And I wouldn't call them photographs. I've done that myself, trying to interface a camera with a telescope. You get a bunch of blotches of light that have very little to do with the image that maybe eventually come into focus, same with microscope. I believe that with a sharp image, there wouldn't have been any mystery. How about 1080p video footage from the high zoom powered Nikon P-900 camera? (btw, the P-1000 just got released with upgrades to 4k and even higher zoom capabilities.) (short 1 min clip) That shiny building left of CN Tower is the Rogers Center, it should be completely obscured according to the standard model Earth curvature calculations. Do you deny this evidence too?
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 13, 2018 23:39:11 GMT
Aluminium foil ship floating in a tank filled with sulphur hexafluoride (heavy gas).
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Aug 15, 2018 7:29:54 GMT
Yep. And I wouldn't call them photographs. I've done that myself, trying to interface a camera with a telescope. You get a bunch of blotches of light that have very little to do with the image that maybe eventually come into focus, same with microscope. I believe that with a sharp image, there wouldn't have been any mystery. How about 1080p video footage from the high zoom powered Nikon P-900 camera? (btw, the P-1000 just got released with upgrades to 4k and even higher zoom capabilities.) (short 1 min clip) That shiny building left of CN Tower is the Rogers Center, it should be completely obscured according to the standard model Earth curvature calculations. Do you deny this evidence too? I finally clicked this video. (I didn't want to because I expect an amount of dishonesty from people making this kind of videos, and there is no reason to spend time on dishonesty.) But much to my surprise there is nothing funny going on. This appears to be just normal effects of atmospheric refraction. That "Mikes..." calculator doesn't make sufficient allowances for possible refraction.
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 15, 2018 11:09:22 GMT
How about 1080p video footage from the high zoom powered Nikon P-900 camera? (btw, the P-1000 just got released with upgrades to 4k and even higher zoom capabilities.) (short 1 min clip) That shiny building left of CN Tower is the Rogers Center, it should be completely obscured according to the standard model Earth curvature calculations. Do you deny this evidence too? I finally clicked this video. (I didn't want to because I expect an amount of dishonesty from people making this kind of videos, and there is no reason to spend time on dishonesty.) But much to my surprise there is nothing funny going on. This appears to be just normal effects of atmospheric refraction. That "Mikes..." calculator doesn't make sufficient allowances for possible refraction. There is no evidence to support terrestrial refraction over a curved Earth. Only example to show refraction over an object was done with liquid butane; *short 1 min clip* Only problem with this experiment, our atmosphere if not filled with liquid butane.
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Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Aug 15, 2018 19:09:55 GMT
I finally clicked this video. (I didn't want to because I expect an amount of dishonesty from people making this kind of videos, and there is no reason to spend time on dishonesty.) But much to my surprise there is nothing funny going on. This appears to be just normal effects of atmospheric refraction. That "Mikes..." calculator doesn't make sufficient allowances for possible refraction. There is no evidence to support terrestrial refraction over a curved Earth. Only example to show refraction over an object was done with liquid butane; *short 1 min clip* Only problem with this experiment, our atmosphere if not filled with liquid butane. “ Terrestrial refraction” ? (WTF is that?) Refraction is physics. It's a very solid model, built from natural laws, of how waves propagates when the phase velocity changes due to changes in the medium. It's general. It applies to all forms of waves in all kinds of mediums. Butane is not a special case. There are limitless amounts of evidence for, always, and none contrary. In every observation and every application where the conditions apply. Have you noted that on every beach everywhere in the world, the waves always moves towards the beach? Refraction! Have you noted that you can see? Refraction! Have you noticed that the Nikon P-900 camera above works? Refraction! Have you noted that when military fires a radar guided missile or radar controlled cannon against an aircraft or missiles, they often actually hit? The radar systems correct for refraction and if there wasn't any in the real atmosphere they would ALWAYS miss, every single time. Refraction! Then we have the example of the Rogers Center video you linked above. Refraction! The video is fine, despite my early misgivings. Only thing wrong with it is the presumption that Rogers Center should have been obscured. That info is false and relies on an invalid reference. Mike West's calculator is not correct. Not in this case. Note that it uses the approximative concept of equivalent radius to estimate refraction, and that it uses the fixed approximation of 7/6*R. This approximation is only a rough thumb rule. And that thumb rule is explicitly NOT applicable if the observer is close to the ground level! And, again, it is explicitly NOT applicable OVER WATER! That's the only problem. False presumption. The density gradient is much greater over cold water and close to the water. Thus refraction close to the ground and over water is strong enough to make Rogers Center visible. ...And it works exactly the same way as in your Butane video. Yet more evidence.
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