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Post by q5tyhj on Nov 10, 2023 15:59:38 GMT
Right, so then this moots the empirical question since the position that "rules and laws must always be upheld" entails that police must be held accountable when they break laws and/or violate their own rules and protocols, even if the proposition that this would lead to a rise in crime rates was actually true and not just a self-serving fable. Lack of oversight is a fast track to corruption and abuse. (I'm not the kind of person that believes systems or organizations can be made to work in an ideal way. If it's good enough, let's not do anything radical, but move in an evolving way instead.) If more oversight would indeed lead to a rise in criminality, well wouldn't that indicate some of the rules are flawed? But again, without any control mechanism, how would you know which or what? To evolve anything, you need feedback, otherwise you're in the dark. And you need facts, not claims, which is why body cams are so great. More oversight apparently doesn't lead to a rise in criminality; this is a claim, made by police unions and police apologists, that is contrary to the facts. And while body cameras sound great in theory, in practice its not clear they actually work to reduce police misconduct- Lum et al 2019 was a meta-survey of over 70 studies of body cam effects on police violence/misconduct that found they have no statistically significant effect, and same for the 2020 metastudy, as well as a massive randomized control trial in Washington, while smaller studies have found a mix of mildly positive to even negative effects of body cameras on police misconduct/violence. That may well be a problem with implementation rather than an absolute limitation, since individual officers are allowed to simply, you know, turn the camera off before they do crimes, but the fact remains that it has yet to be demonstrated that body cameras can act as a meaningful "control mechanism". One thing that remains a very plausibly effective control mechanism is civil/criminal liability: if police ever actually faced accountability or oversight when they engage in misconduct, they might not engage in misconduct so frequently. Sort of the way it works for the rest of the populace: you break the rules, you suffer the consequences. Except, for some odd reason, lots of people- including/especially the police themselves- don't believe police should suffer the consequences for breaking the rules, or even committing e.g. murder.
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Nov 10, 2023 16:54:56 GMT
What I see from law enforcement and their systematic misconduct in the US makes me shiver. I will never go there.
I am not afraid for the police here in Amsterdam, though. They are usually kind and helpful, when you treat them like a normal human being. Of course you can find one with a bad day. People are people.
That doesn't mean police misconduct doesn't exist here, but it is rare and not systematic.
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Post by q5tyhj on Nov 11, 2023 0:37:41 GMT
What I see from law enforcement and their systematic misconduct in the US makes me shiver. I will never go there. I am not afraid for the police here in Amsterdam, though. They are usually kind and helpful, when you treat them like a normal human being. Of course you can find one with a bad day. People are people. That doesn't mean police misconduct doesn't exist here, but it is rare and not systematic. Its another one of those areas where the entire rest of the developed world (!!) has lapped us (health care being another, gun violence being yet another), its completely embarrassing.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 11, 2023 1:09:20 GMT
Sorry guys - this is no longer even tangentially related to science (as much as it ever was). Time to let this conversation end now, thanks. Or take it to PM, as suits you.
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Post by q5tyhj on Nov 11, 2023 22:31:49 GMT
Sorry guys - this is no longer even tangentially related to science (as much as it ever was). Time to let this conversation end now, thanks. Or take it to PM, as suits you. As much as it ever was? We've been discussing a particular scientific result, the one I posted on the effect of police oversight into crime rates. So it was always "as much" about science as it was possible to be, and the discussion has continued to be directly related to that topic. But you already knew that, and you knew that I knew that. So, if you don't want us to have certain kinds of discussions about science, or don't want us to discuss certain areas of science, then just say so- you're a mod, you don't need to gaslight us and invent a pretext. Its less likely to provoke this sort of reaction anyways- an honest request is usually honored more easily than blowing smoke up someones ass, especially when its done so blatantly.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 11, 2023 22:55:35 GMT
Sorry guys - this is no longer even tangentially related to science (as much as it ever was). Time to let this conversation end now, thanks. Or take it to PM, as suits you. As much as it ever was? We've been discussing a particular scientific result, the one I posted on the effect of police oversight into crime rates. So it was always "as much" about science as it was possible to be, and the discussion has continued to be directly related to that topic. But you already knew that, and you knew that I knew that. So, if you don't want us to have certain kinds of discussions about science, or don't want us to discuss certain areas of science, then just say so- you're a mod, you don't need to gaslight us and invent a pretext. It’s less likely to provoke this sort of reaction anyways- an honest request is usually honored more easily than blowing smoke up someones ass, especially when it’s done so blatantly. Fair enough. You were initially discussing results of a social science study. Ok. That is tenuous, but close enough. Then it became purely social commentary, and while ‘no lies detected’ in anything you said, it was at that point it became general socio-political discussion which we don’t allow here. If you want further clarification, PM me. We don’t discuss moderation in public threads anymore.
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Post by q5tyhj on Nov 12, 2023 17:14:13 GMT
Fair enough. You were initially discussing results of a social science study. Ok. That is tenuous, but close enough. Social science is "tenuous but close enough" to science? Which other areas of science are only "close enough" to science to just barely count as relevant topics for a Science thread? Ridiculous. If you don't want people posting or discussing science topics, or certain science topics, maybe don't have a Science thread (or specify that its strictly a physics thread, or a chemistry thread, or whatever your arbitrary idea of "real" science happens to be). Nobody is trying to covertly revive the Politics thread under the guise of science so far as I can tell, but it would be nice to be allowed at least a little room to discuss the science we've posted in the Science thread, provided no one is being abusive or flaming or anything else that violates the posting guidelines (which certainly doesn't seem to be the case here).
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Post by skekSil on Nov 13, 2023 21:56:18 GMT
Not much of a science, rather a tiny and trivial scientific fact: Moon in Northern hemisphere: Moon at equator: Moon in Australia: I mean like, duh, obviously, but it never really even crossed my mind!
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Post by Beerfish on Nov 14, 2023 0:12:32 GMT
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Post by Beerfish on Nov 14, 2023 0:14:48 GMT
Not much of a science, rather a tiny and trivial scientific fact: Moon in Northern hemisphere:
Moon at equator:
Moon in Australia:
I mean like, duh, obviously, but it never really even crossed my mind! What do you expect from Stralia and old zealand!!!
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Post by q5tyhj on Nov 14, 2023 17:44:12 GMT
Cool new Sag A* science: new study using Chandra found that the Milky Way's central supermassive black hole Sag A* has an angular momentum between 0.84 and 0.96 (on a scale between 0.1 and 1), near the top physical limit for its width and mass. Between this insane spin and Sag A*'s huge mass-energy, intense frame-dragging is produced in the vicinity of the black hole resulting in bizarre visual effects like light rings (and also the shadow of the black hole, like the one the EHT imaged in 2019 of M87). The study also found that Sag A* is likely producing relativistic jets (so awesome). Here's the study: "New black hole spin values for Sagittarius A* obtained with the outflow method", Daly et al 2024 from the upcoming Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society (Volume 527, Issue 1)
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Post by q5tyhj on Nov 14, 2023 17:45:36 GMT
what an absolutely epic "doh"!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2023 17:22:24 GMT
lolwut
"the tool bag is currently orbiting Earth ahead of the ISS, and can potentially be spotted from Earth with a pair of binoculars during the next few months"
It's not a terrible thing to be reminded astronauts are still human though.
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Post by bierkrug on Nov 15, 2023 17:35:56 GMT
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Post by Beerfish on Nov 15, 2023 20:00:28 GMT
lolwut
"the tool bag is currently orbiting Earth ahead of the ISS, and can potentially be spotted from Earth with a pair of binoculars during the next few months"
It's not a terrible thing to be reminded astronauts are still human though.
Notice who dropped it? Thus my joke about me getting banned.
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Post by bierkrug on Nov 16, 2023 8:24:25 GMT
lolwut
"the tool bag is currently orbiting Earth ahead of the ISS, and can potentially be spotted from Earth with a pair of binoculars during the next few months"
It's not a terrible thing to be reminded astronauts are still human though.
Notice who dropped it? Thus my joke about me getting banned. Awww come on! Men drop stuff all the time too. Whether it's tools, objects, promises....
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Post by q5tyhj on Nov 17, 2023 2:21:05 GMT
Agreed! There's a TON of raw data out there from our star surveys that hasn't been fully analyzed- we may well be sitting on proof (or evidence, at least) of alien life or dyson spheres or who-knows-what and not even know it... (so, lean on your children to go into astrophysics and astronomy once they get old enough to go to college, those of you who have or are planning on having children!)
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Post by Beerfish on Nov 26, 2023 17:15:37 GMT
This is pretty cool, NASA is developing a robot snake.
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Post by Beerfish on Dec 8, 2023 22:14:12 GMT
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 10, 2023 20:51:43 GMT
they are so cool, what an awesome old guy... sea turtles and giant land tortoises are some of the coolest creatures we have on this planet. Almost 200 fucking years old!! They have an average life expectancy of 150 years- almost twice that of humans. Imagine how cranky they must get at that age? I'm a fucking grouch and I'm not even 40 yet, this bastards got 150+ years on me!
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 10, 2023 21:03:30 GMT
"An international team of astronomers has used NASA’s James Webb Space Telescope to provide the first observation of water and other molecules in the highly irradiated inner, rocky-planet-forming regions of a disk in one of the most extreme environments in our galaxy. These results suggest that the conditions for terrestrial planet formation can occur in a possible broader range of environments than previously thought."JWST study reveals rocky planets can form in extreme enviromentsIts crazy to think how much our assumptions have changed- we used to think that planetary formation, much less the formation of rocky terrestrial inner planets with water (potentially liquid water), was pretty rare. Then we started realization that most stars have planetary systems and exoplanets (let alone exo-moons) are extremely abundant. So then we figured that planets were common, but rocky worlds with liquid water located in the habitable "Goldilocks zone" are still really rare. Only now we're increasingly seeing evidence against that supposition as well. For all we know, the universe could be positively teeming with life. And we are only just now developing the technology to actually look for direct observational evidence of alien life and alien biospheres.
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 10, 2023 22:18:59 GMT
I keep saying it, and it may sound like I'm crazy, but I believe there is a high probability that we will discover strong evidence of alien life within our lifetimes. Its really hard to exaggerate just how game-changing the latest technology for our space telescopes sky surveys, radio interoferometry, and exoplanet spectrography (!!), etc is going to be (and in some cases already has been).
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Post by Lavochkin on Dec 13, 2023 17:06:46 GMT
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 17, 2023 19:03:01 GMT
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 17, 2023 19:05:42 GMT
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