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Post by Croatsky on Sept 8, 2019 17:19:08 GMT
Dunno from what game is this, I just found it on /r/greedfall
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Post by azarhal on Sept 8, 2019 17:37:49 GMT
Dunno from what game is this, I just found it on /r/greedfallThat's Fable 2 I believe.
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 8, 2019 18:08:59 GMT
Dunno from what game is this, I just found it on /r/greedfallMy gut reaction was that it was a Fable 4 leaked photo, so Fable 2 was a good guess. But it's Risen 3, like one guy says in the Reddit. I've played it a little, and it's kind of what we're all hoping Greedfall is going to rise above? Painfully mediocre, aside from the lovely aesthetic.
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Croatsky
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Amateur Reporter
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Post by Croatsky on Sept 8, 2019 19:08:21 GMT
It took me way too long to find the full song:
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Tittus
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Post by Tittus on Sept 8, 2019 20:22:02 GMT
Lack of jump mechanics doesn’t make a game terrible, but still it’s a feature that gives so much sense of freedom. If I’m nitpicking, that’s a negative point.
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 8, 2019 20:48:56 GMT
Lack of jump mechanics doesn’t make a game terrible, but still it’s a feature that gives so much sense of freedom. If I’m nitpicking, that’s a negative point. I don't know. These days I'm not a sporty guy by any stretch, but I do a bit of climbing around on stuff as part of my job. And I'm still pretty sure I haven't jumped in at least five years. If our feet leave the ground only so we can reach ledges and close gaps then that's as much jumping as I need in a game. I don't even remember the last one I played where you could do a standing jump and it actually felt like it made any difference. Probably Spiderman. But that was Spiderman. I might even see it as a negative in a game for adults. I can think of a few games where the jumping mechanic was totally unnecessary even for traversal, looked goofy and mostly just served to make me awkwardly jump against invisible walls or badly-textured-up-close scenery to see if I was supposed to try to get over them, because it was never entirely clear when that was or wasn't the case. It only made sense even for Horizon Zero Dawn because Aloy did so much climbing and was ridiculously athletic in general.
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Post by dazk on Sept 8, 2019 22:11:10 GMT
So I decided to check the Steam discussion board on GreedFall. That was a big mistake. *looks at Steam forum* Jesus Christ. I had no idea PC gamers tended to be so jaded and churlish. What a bunch of nonsense. No multiplayer or jumping = terrible game indeed. I think I cared about that second thing when I was 12 and got jealous seeing my characters leaping around in cutscenes while staying resolutely earthbound in gameplay. Pretty good track. Sounds perfect to use in an ending. Mhm. With every major native village burned to the ground, the survivors left in chains or on the run, an old world flag planted in the ashes of each, and with fresh sails appearing on the horizon heralding a new dawn of civilization and prosperity for New France Yup, perfect. Ubisoft forums cured me of ever visiting official game forums. Made the mistake of returning during AC Odysseys release to ask a question and my god the vitriol for a completely benign question re resources!!!!!
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Post by dazk on Sept 8, 2019 22:14:34 GMT
Lack of jump mechanics doesn’t make a game terrible, but still it’s a feature that gives so much sense of freedom. If I’m nitpicking, that’s a negative point. And then you have the jet pack!!!!!! My god MEA was a revelation for me with its jet pack having never used one before.
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Post by Tittus on Sept 8, 2019 22:23:02 GMT
Yeah it isn’t about utility. It’s just nice to not be glued to the ground. I use constantly when a game allow me that.
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Post by obatalaryder on Sept 8, 2019 22:34:13 GMT
Lack of jump mechanics doesn’t make a game terrible, but still it’s a feature that gives so much sense of freedom. If I’m nitpicking, that’s a negative point. I don't know. These days I'm not a sporty guy by any stretch, but I do a bit of climbing around on stuff as part of my job. And I'm still pretty sure I haven't jumped in at least five years. If our feet leave the ground only so we can reach ledges and close gaps then that's as much jumping as I need in a game. I don't even remember the last one I played where you could do a standing jump and it actually felt like it made any difference. Probably Spiderman. But that was Spiderman. I might even see it as a negative in a game for adults. I can think of a few games where the jumping mechanic was totally unnecessary even for traversal, looked goofy and mostly just served to make me awkwardly jump against invisible walls or badly-textured-up-close scenery to see if I was supposed to try to get over them, because it was never entirely clear when that was or wasn't the case. It only made sense even for Horizon Zero Dawn because Aloy did so much climbing and was ridiculously athletic in general. Yeah, Greedfall looks to be a game about exploring a lot of normal plains and generally flat grounds. Don't think there'll be a lot of things to climb.
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Post by obatalaryder on Sept 8, 2019 23:05:38 GMT
I actually get the opposite impression from this track. I get the feeling it could be used, particularly towards the end, to represent the PC cutting ties with the old world and deciding to make a new life in Teer Fradee. I do wonder whether it'll be possible for Teer Fradee to regain its isolation in light of its recent colonization. Also, will you be forced to choose between saving the old world with a cure or saving this new one? Will you be able to somehow do both? Heh, we'll see. Maybe in a second playthrough as a female De Sarlet I'll feel inclined to a 'going native' or a potential compromise ending. And yeah, the locals somehow driving off the settlers and blissfully maintaining their grip on the island for more than a few years would be pretty hard to swallow. And it would obviously never ever have happened in real life. More likely, the "ideal" ending is De Sarlet wrangling some sort of trade deal between the natives and New Serene where they essentially have to export everything valuable on the island in exchange for autonomy. Right now I'm imagining a rather disturbing scenario where the settlers back off and start playing the native factions against each other until their conflict escalates and one is forced to ask for assistance in exchange for a proper foothold or even just a set amount of resources. It wouldn't be the first time disastrous external intervention has lead to vicious tribal warfare with modern weaponry thrown in for shits and giggles. I'm really, really curious to see how deep they're going into the whole issue. In one of the earlier interviews a creator equated the imperialistic decisions in the game with "being a dick" in any other RPG, implying a rather shallow and hamfisted storyline branch to my ears. In the one mikefest just provided a link to, the statement is that each ending can be seen as good or bad depending on viewpoint, indicating at least an attempt to write each approach to the main conflict as understandable and realistic human narratives. To be fair real life colonization could be summed up to being a hamfisted affair. Yeah one could write a flowery thesis how colonizers were motivated by greed, economics, religion, and "curiosity", but "they were just dicks" can just as easily get the point across. I think what Spiders meant is that the endings can be justified by any POV with enough critical reasoning. Whether they're morally sound or not is subjective, but I think they're making sure every choice made in this game can be justified and can be logically backed up by the context of the narrative. I don't think Spiders need to go out of their way on things.
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 9, 2019 0:51:45 GMT
To be fair real life colonization could be summed up to being a hamfisted affair. Yeah one could write a flowery thesis how colonizers were motivated by greed, economics, religion, and "curiosity", but "they were just dicks" can just as easily get the point across. I think what Spiders meant is that the endings can be justified by any POV with enough critical reasoning. Whether they're morally sound or not is subjective, but I think they're making sure every choice made in this game can be justified and can be logically backed up by the context of the narrative. I don't think Spiders need to go out of their way on things. Honestly, I don't think that is being fair. If half my siblings had died before the age of ten, and I'd had the crap beaten out of me by everyone I'd cared to call an authority growing up just like everybody else, and my body was riddled with pains and diseases and malnourishment that nobody within a hundred miles knew how to even start fixing, and I had no endurable job prospects because the Guildmasters who directed the currents of my profession - which I never chose - had never been forced to give a thought in the world to my well-being or that of my family, and I knew by looking around me that I'd probably be dead by 40... I've no idea how I'd behave. But I don't think I'd be very squeamish about traveling somewhere I could make a lot of money off land which strange-looking people I didn't understand - whom the absolute directors of what everyone had always told me I was supposed to consider right and wrong were iffy on the subject of whether or not were actually people - supposedly thought they had a claim to even though they weren't using it anywhere near effectively so far as I could see. And I don't think I'd be too hesitant fighting back if they attacked me while I was doing so. I'm really, really suspicious of the idea that "those people were just dicks, just don't be a dick" is the lesson we should take away from historical travesties just because they're uncomfotable to think too closely about. And I do think that a story that proposes to tackle colonialism and dismisses it as such is half-assing it, even thought the tackling of colonialism in itself is a really ballsy move. I'm excited in any case, and as you say a lot of the moral context in the game is probably going to be left up to the player to figure out, but I certainly appreciate it when I get lots of nitty gritty details and relationships to ground that contextualizing in while roleplaying.
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Post by phoray on Sept 9, 2019 0:57:44 GMT
Yeah it isn’t about utility. It’s just nice to not be glued to the ground. I use constantly when a game allow me that. Your character does do climb at marked areas, so it's not like De Sardet will always be glued to the ground outside of cut scenes. It just won't be free style
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Post by phoray on Sept 9, 2019 1:00:16 GMT
And I do think that a story that proposes to tackle colonialism You keep bringing up this subject, this, may I call it, promise? by the Spiders Devs. But I've never heard of it until you nor picked up on it in the materials I've watched so far released by them.
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Post by OdanUrr on Sept 9, 2019 1:01:55 GMT
Seems to be Steam's top-selling game right now (#2 if we count the CS:GO pass). Hope it can live up to people's expectations to some degree. Spiders could really use a hit.
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 9, 2019 1:07:55 GMT
And I do think that a story that proposes to tackle colonialism You keep bringing up this subject, this, may I call it, promise? by the Spiders Devs. But I've never heard of it until you nor picked up on it in the materials I've watched so far released by them. You might have noticed the video game they're intending to release about people in sixteenth-century costumes sailing to settle a newly discovered land and having difficulties with the natives there.
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Post by Gwydden on Sept 9, 2019 1:40:07 GMT
But I don't think I'd be very squeamish about traveling somewhere I could make a lot of money off land which strange-looking people I didn't understand - whom the absolute directors of what everyone had always told me I was supposed to consider right and wrong were iffy on the subject of whether or not were actually people - supposedly thought they had a claim to even though they weren't using it anywhere near effectively so far as I could see. And I don't think I'd be too hesitant fighting back if they attacked me while I was doing so. Historical digression incoming... This misleadingly implies colonial enterprises were the work of the average Joe. Imperialism is never set up to benefit the colonized, and in that category settlers from the home country are included; hence why even colonies made up primarily of white settlers eventually revolted and/or demanded independence. It was not even set up to benefit the home country beyond elite interests i.e. quality of life for the average person in Victorian England was arguably worse than in earlier periods despite the empire never having been bigger, wealthier, or more powerful. Therefore, imperialism is inherently evil, if we operate under the notion that evil is that which causes unnecessary harm to others, usually for one's own pleasure or benefit. Colonialism is likewise evil insofar as it overlaps with imperialism, which in the Modern Era is a lot. There are earlier instances of relatively victimless colonialism i.e. the ancient Phoenician and Greek city states around the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, or medieval Norse settlement in the North Sea and the North Atlantic. But these instances were fundamentally different in character from modern European colonization, which Greedfall is clearly based on. And you may have noticed that, at any rate, we don't play a working class hero but an extremely privileged individual.
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Post by obatalaryder on Sept 9, 2019 2:04:16 GMT
And I do think that a story that proposes to tackle colonialism You keep bringing up this subject, this, may I call it, promise? by the Spiders Devs. But I've never heard of it until you nor picked up on it in the materials I've watched so far released by them. I think Spiders has only said that the setting of Greedfall is not just alternate-Earth or an alternative history take. So it's not supposed to be an exact mirror of our real world. But overall they've been pretty upfront about it directly tackling colonialism theme-wise. We just have to see how well it's executed. Just from what I gleamed of the game they seem more deliberately conscious of the conceptual implications of imperialism than most companies that like to slap it around in stories just for the sake of it. A lot of games actually glorify it; conquest, imperialism, colonization. So it's very refreshing imo, and along with some other things sets it apart from the typical Tolkien fantasy drab. Pre-release wise, I just see the difference in how Bioware talked of "exploring" new planets and meeting new races in Andromeda, and how Spiders has been explaining how we, the players, are "exploring" the "new world" of Ter Ferdee and its inhabitants in their previews and interviews. . Andromeda talked of colonization, had literal colonization, yet seemed to have no real weight attached to it from a thematic and player standpoint. Doesn't help that they try to handwave and jump past over it with narrative conveniences. The Angara and Kett conflict is the only one that sticks but that was just established lore and had nothing to do with the player. Both expositions are similarly sympathetic: Andromeda is about being refugees from Reaper-ravaged galaxy, while Greedfall is about leaving home to find a cure for a disease destroying the old world. The difference on the surface is that Spiders doesn't use that exposition to nullify the real implications and effects of so-called "exploration". For Andromeda, the nuances of actual colonialism conflicted with the game forcing the power fantasy of being the glorious chosen one onto the player(the Pathfinder), resulting in an ineffective Terra Nullus scenario where nothing could actually be tackled in a critical manner. Just one article with some insight from the devs (https://kotaku.com/upcoming-exploration-rpg-greedfall-has-my-attention-1837314321)
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 9, 2019 3:28:38 GMT
Historical digression incoming... This misleadingly implies colonial enterprises were the work of the average Joe. Imperialism is never set up to benefit the colonized, and in that category settlers from the home country are included; hence why even colonies made up primarily of white settlers eventually revolted and/or demanded independence. It was not even set up to benefit the home country beyond elite interests i.e. quality of life for the average person in Victorian England was arguably worse than in earlier periods despite the empire never having been bigger, wealthier, or more powerful. Therefore, imperialism is inherently evil, if we operate under the notion that evil is that which causes unnecessary harm to others, usually for one's own pleasure or benefit. Colonialism is likewise evil insofar as it overlaps with imperialism, which in the Modern Era is a lot. There are earlier instances of relatively victimless colonialism i.e. the ancient Phoenician and Greek city states around the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, or medieval Norse settlement in the North Sea and the North Atlantic. But these instances were fundamentally different in character from modern European colonization, which Greedfall is clearly based on. And you may have noticed that, at any rate, we don't play a working class hero but an extremely privileged individual. There's nothing you're saying that I disagree with specifically, but. I'm baffled by what you mean by something "not being the work" of the people who do it. The average Joe doesn't get into a boat and sail halfway across the globe to start a life somewhere he has only seen in drawings because he thinks it will benefit the elite, he does it because he thinks it's in his best interest and that of his family and loved ones, and the same goes for any atrocities committed over the course of his venture. Who imperialism is "set up to benefit" is only tangentially relevant to why the people who are willing to get their hands dirty and bloody taking land from other human beings are so. And this game very obviously features a host of working men and women from the continent doing exactly that and only one De Sarlet who is there for an unrelated reason. For the purposes of exploring what colonialism and imperialism mean for people in practice, and what kinds of mentalities to personally be wary of under what circumstances that have historically lead to slaughter and oppression, I'd say their presence should weigh at least as much as his/her does. I'm certainly not denying that greedy or stupid politicians have been instrumental in causing enormous harm throughout the centuries. But so far we've been rather more successful raising the average Joe's standard of living and educating him to be somewhat sensitive and morally responsible than we have ever been at directly trying to get rid of greedy or stupid politicians. Deciding that imperialism is evil is fine and dandy, but recognizing the tendencies that lead to the evil aspects of it within and around ourselves and learning to deal with them is a pretty important second step in my mind. And you can't do that by just dismissing it as bad or shuffling the responsibility off to a faceless elite at every opportunity, even if a lot of the chains of causality ultimately seem to lead back to them. Ordinary men and women have done these things while looking the people they were doing them to in the eye, so you and I definitely can too. Dunno about you, but I'd like to be able to see that coming before I hurt anyone, just in case. Or less importantly, speak up or get out of dodge if I see it in others.
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Post by saandrig on Sept 9, 2019 9:26:36 GMT
Lack of jump mechanics doesn’t make a game terrible, but still it’s a feature that gives so much sense of freedom. If I’m nitpicking, that’s a negative point. There is no jumping in any of the Assassins creed games, but I haven't heard anyone making a fuss about it In fact many of it's fans probably haven't even realized they don't have a jump button You go up and you go down, but you can't make even an inch high jump in an open field.
Jumping in DAI was terrible, especially when you had to use it for some collectables. Same in SWTOR. Sometimes less is better.
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Post by OdanUrr on Sept 9, 2019 10:38:55 GMT
More coverage on Greedfall. It's in French though.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 9, 2019 11:47:56 GMT
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Post by Frost on Sept 9, 2019 12:03:43 GMT
Launch day!!! Looking forward to playing tonight when I get home from work.
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azarhal
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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azarhal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Sept 9, 2019 12:25:49 GMT
More coverage on Greedfall. It's in French though. That's an interesting video, it's more about the game development. It's unfortunate they didn't make English subtitles. - Bound By Flame was Spiders best selling title so far - The studio was tired of scifi and generic fantasy settings when they created GreedFall setting - They did a lots of research to get the artistic look they wanted and create the different factions which they tried to distinguish via dialogues and appearance (even music) and not just background. - They wanted more focus on the side quests compared to the previous Spiders games, so you can do more things in parallel and in the order that you want. - The game has 220 000 words of dialogues, VO cost ~300k pounds and took 3 months (Jehanne Rousseau act as voice director, on top of writing most of all the dialogues). - Small background spoiler: Thélème and the Bridge Alliance don't like each others (sciences vs religion, not too surprising).
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saandrig
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by saandrig on Sept 9, 2019 12:26:31 GMT
Launch day!!! Looking forward to playing tonight when I get home from work. Will be too late in the night for me. Backup plan - get up early in the morning for a few hours game session before work. Contingency backup plan - bring laptop to work and pretend to be deep into Excel spreadsheet magic
Ah, that explains why everyone everywhere brings up Bound By Flame as the Greedfall comparison benchmark (or as "BBF sucked, so this will too"). There is almost no mention of the more recent and superior Technomancer.
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