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Post by secretrare on Oct 1, 2016 18:27:16 GMT
I like the concept of mages but sadly there are some mages that are especially good at ruining the reputation of all the other mages. So we need to say thank you to Solas,Corypheus,Architect&co,Uldred,AAnders,Morrigan and some other very friendly mages who are rather happy to kill for their goals or simply are reckless fools who toy with forces they don't understand. Anders never abuse his mage power, and he never wanted POWER. Just freedom. He only abuse his skills into making magical bombs.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 1, 2016 18:28:25 GMT
Anders never abuse his mage power, and he NEVER WANTED POWER. Just freedom. He only abuse his skills into making magical bombs. This is not an argument against the mages. This argument against Anders.
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Oct 1, 2016 18:29:39 GMT
Disagreeing with mages even though you are a mage does not mean agreeing with oppressors. Reality is far more complex and nuanced than that. I do not see the Templars as oppressors, I see the Chantry as the oppressor. Both Mages and Templars are victims of the Andrastian Chantry. Being tethered to Lyrium and being indoctrinated with religious bullshit is no freedom. I always wrote: the templars are victims too. The problem is the thousand years Chantry propaganda against the mages. But just because the Templars also victims, I don't side with Templars, because this will not change if I side of the Templars, because with this choice I will support the system, not the freedom of the Templars. Your words make no sense whatsoever and are demonstrably false. The statement "Templars are victims but you do not side with them because Chantry propaganda against mages will not stop" is blatantly wrong because in Inquisition you can conscript the Templar Order and make Leliana Divine, which results in the end of the Templar Order but Templars still exist. The biggest issue with the Templars is that they are tethered to the Chantry which means zealotry over ethics. Templar working directly under the Inquisition + Leliana Divine solves that problem. Templar conscription =/= Mage conscription. Templar conscription means the Templar Order disbands and the Templars join the Inquisition - Templars working for a new boss. Mage conscription means the Rebel Mages surrender themselves as prisoners and conscripts of the Inquisition - Mages are prisoners. By contrast, Southern Rebel Mages will still get into trouble no matter what you do because of Vivienne - Who ensures that the old Circle, the system that no longer works, remain in direct competition with the College of Enchanters. The impact of Vivienne's Circle is only diminished if there are no Rebel Mages under the Inquisition.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 1, 2016 18:38:19 GMT
I always wrote: the templars are victims too. The problem is the thousand years Chantry propaganda against the mages. But just because the Templars also victims, I don't side with Templars, because this will not change if I side of the Templars, because with this choice I will support the system, not the freedom of the Templars. [...] This topic is not about who to recruit the Inquisition (that is another topic...). This topic about that you agree with Templars, or agree with Mages, and what's your reason.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 1, 2016 18:43:12 GMT
Anders never abuse his mage power, and he never wanted POWER. Just freedom. He only abuse his skills into making magical bombs. Anders seem to be the best bomber crafting of Dragon age,the bomb that he was able to build was very small and made of low quality material yet what a power it had.If those stupid people at Ostagar used those kind of weapons instead to fight like primitive people with swords and shield they would have defeated all the darkspawns with less than the 5% of soldiers of their army.
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Post by Ieldra on Oct 1, 2016 20:10:13 GMT
I actively and passionately reject the message told by the story of the Golden City that people shouldn't attempt "usurp the Maker's power". I see "stealing power from the gods" as a virtuous undertaking if it's done to gain more autonomy for yourself and others rather than to suppress others' autonomy. That was dramatically stupid and act performed by lunatics who received the blight not the power of any god,if the gods really exist in this setting it will also be very naive to think that they will allow to inferior beings to stole their power that easily. If those 7 maggots would have stayed at their home that day instead to start mass sacrifices all over the empire to reach that city not even a single darkspawn would have come to exist nor the GW nor the Archdemons.In Thedas pretty much everyone is a victim of their recklessness. Mages like these are the most dangerous kind,always creating threats for others for their ridiculous ambitions. *These* mages, yes. The problem: the fact they endangered others was not the focus of the story, it was the nature of the act as a "sin" against the Maker. That's why I object to the message. Not that they killed thousands of slaves for their ambition and unleashed the Blight was the "First Sin", not that they wanted the power to oppress, no, it was trespassing on the Maker's grounds. I say the story has gotten its priorities wrong.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 1, 2016 20:15:10 GMT
I've sided with both in all games, for content experience, but in general, I side with the mages.
You're right, OP, that it is not the same as a different skin colour or sexuality. It is analogous of someone having bigger muscles than others. If the guy that play Gregor Glegane on GoT decided to do something to you, or someone you cared for, there is literally nothing you could do about it....unless you had a weapon or training that could hurt him.
Mages might have 'muscles' much bigger than ordinary people, but the didn't choose to have those muscles, and should - and are - innocent until proven guilty, on an individual basis.
As for how we handle that in DA4...I have no idea, looking forward to finding out, though.
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Post by Dabrikishaw on Oct 1, 2016 20:22:46 GMT
1. I prefer helping mages over Templars, as far as major choices go. This is due to finding their situations more sympathetic most of the time.
2. I don't dislike Templars or the idea of the Templar Order, but my sympathies are larger for the mages.
3. I've sided with both several times over the years, and I've learned all I could from the Templar side.
4. Never made this claim myself.
5. Purely a matter of player convenience, which I'm all for keeping around.
6. No point in answering any of these since there's both a Circle and the College of Enchanters around.
7. Tevinter is pretty evil, so obviously Id do what I could to help anyone under the thumb of a Magister.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 1, 2016 20:25:12 GMT
1. I prefer helping mages over Templars, as far as major choices go. This is due to finding their situations more sympathetic most of the time. 2. I don't dislike Templars or the idea of the Templar Order, but my sympathies are larger for the mages. 3. I've sided with both several times over the years, and I've learned all I could from the Templar side. 4. Never made this claim myself. 5. Purely a matter of player convenience, which I'm all for keeping around. 6. No point in answering any of these since there's both a Circle and the College of Enchanters around. 7. Tevinter is pretty evil, so obviously Id do what I could to help anyone under the thumb of a Magister. I dont think, Tevinter is evil: I think some Magisters are evil (even Fenris don't say, that all of the Magisters are evil).
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Post by Dabrikishaw on Oct 1, 2016 20:34:48 GMT
On the whole, I'd say there's more evil Magisters than good. Not all of them are lost to their culture, but I'm being realistic.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 1, 2016 20:38:07 GMT
On the whole, I'd say there's more evil Magisters than good. Not all of them are lost to their culture, but I'm being realistic. Yes, is true: more corrupt politican, than not totally corrupt...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 22:24:25 GMT
I really just don’t like the Circle system in general. It reminds me too much of the Stanford Prison Experiment where shit hit the fan quick. Templars are paranoid about the mages that they watch, rightly so sometimes but that can lead to a lot of problems, such as the creation akin to a police state. It doesn’t help that the Chantry seems to encourage a hostile outlook towards mages, which can lead to Templars view them in a dehumanizing way. You really don’t want someone like that having power over you. Additionally, that power imbalance leads to abuse. A Templar can sexually abuse a mage and if the mage tries to resist, then the Templar can just say that the mage was using blood magic and the Templar will be believed on face value. It’s just a really messed up system that makes me sympathize with the mage plight. I’ve never played a Templar, nor the Templar route in DA:I. I just always gravitate to the group that invokes my sympathies.
4) The current system in Southern Thedas may be, in part, created because they didn’t want another Tiventer. But also because mages do pose a threat, not just by being susceptible to possession, but because the threat of mages turning to blood magic to control people.
5 and 6) One, isn’t the necessity for lyrium and/or blood a mechanic in the game? Also, normal weaken the vail enough with their fighting. As for the demon thing, I do thing mages need to at least go to a Circle for training in order resists demons as well as to know how to control their magic before they are allowed to live among normal. As for "Mages and Templars will work together" I don’t think that’s to unrealistic for this setting. I think that we at least need a force of Templars to patrol for magic abuses, kind of like a police force. They could be a special sect in the city guards. Will there be abuses, of course, but what system doesn’t have abuses?
7) I am always for the underdogs, but I will probably mostly care about elves there.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 23:51:19 GMT
Oh, but allow me to fill out this questionnaire...
No active dislike/hate, but it is worth mentioning that I originally started out a mage supporter, and part of the reason my opinion shifted is because the mages would just continually let me down.
3. Have you played both? If yes, did it give you any new insight? If not, why
Yes, actually playing as a mage made me a little less pro-mage than I started. Whereas previously I was like "Wow, mages a really useful. Why does the Chantry have to confine them so much?" and was planning on playing as a big malcontent mage, I immediately found myself thinking "I have a lot of responsibility with this magic. I ought to be very careful with how I use it." So the idea of getting all combative against authority did not last long at all.
I have never played as a warrior with Templar powers. It just seems boring.
Yeah, same here, the mages... What fricken morons. I can't believe they all went along with Fiona's plan. I wish there were a another faction of Rebel mages I could support that didn't follow in Fiona's footsteps - and it wouldn't be hard to image the some mages decided to leave Fiona's group. I would've felt super sympathic towards the other faction. Lol, that was how I was like with my Hawke acually, I had more trust in my Canon Quizzie though; Hawke hanged around people that... Uh, were not very good examples of how wonderful and awesome mages are - Merills a blood Mage, Anders a abomanation terrorist -.seems like Hawke had to be responsible Mage around them..
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Post by dragontartare on Oct 1, 2016 23:55:22 GMT
1. Within the context of the DA universe, why do you prefer Templars or Mages? Mages in general, because they are the ones who are treated as criminals simply by daring to exist.
2. Is it simply preference, or do you actively dislike the other? If so, what specifically do you hate? Just a preference. I don't hate Templars in general. I think most of the rank and file are just ordinary people trying to help in the only way they know how.
3. Have you played both? If yes, did it give you any new insight? If not, why? My Lavellan took the Templar specialization, but I don't think that's quite what you mean, since he didn't join the Templar order and didn't subscribe to their philosophies about mages. He just wanted their powers. I have Champions of the Just planned for my next DAI run, with a mage-phobic Cadash.
For the Mage fans:
4. Many Mage fans have likened the Circle to various forms of real world discrimination. Yet, like mutants in X-Men, magic in Dragon Age gives a clear inborn advantage to those with over those without. Being able to shoot fire or control minds is NOT the same as having a different skin color or sexuality. This false equivalency can give the impression of "they're just holding us down because we really are better than they are". How do you address this imbalance? Keep some form of the circles, but quit treating mages like they are criminals just because they were born with powers that they didn't ask for. Their powers do give them advantages, but also an enormous disadvantage. Most people would never want to be possessed by a demon, yet mages must live with the fact that this is a possibility, no matter if they go to a circle or whether they live as apostates. And they know that if this happens to them, there is no cure**, no court of justice, and no hope for them other than to be quickly put out of their misery. On top of that, they know they are forbidden from forming romantic relationships -- which is something most humans very much strive for -- and they know that, should they have children, their children will be taken away from them forever. For all their extra powers, mages are still people with human psychology. Few people who are anti-mage stop to think about what this sort of fear and hate must do to a person.
**Until now, at least. The Avvar know how to cure demon possession, and I think both Tevinter and the south need to start making deals with the Avvar to secure this knowledge, immediately.
5. Mage fans can often treat magic the same as superpowers, completely ignoring it's context within DA lore; i.e., the necessity of lyrium and/or blood, how it can weaken the Veil, and the constant threat of demonic possession. They rationalize that since as Players they can easily avoid such pratfalls, everyone should be able to. This dismisses that Player Characters are always given agency that most NPCs never have, or that entitled players would whine if they where subject to the same restrictions. Your response? I don't have a perfect solution, but clearly the circle system isn't it (and neither is Tevinter's system). An in between is needed, and it will take a long time and a cultural shift in mindset to achieve. There is enormous danger in taking powerful people, cornering them, threatening them, and then giving them nothing to do but read books all day. Then you end up with well-read, terrified, angry people who are much more powerful than you are, and who have no idea what they don't know, because they have no experience with the outside world. Desperate people do desperate things, especially when those desperate people have done so much reading that they assume they know what they are getting into when they engage in things like blood magic. And then you end up with the Ferelden circle, and Kirkwall.
On the other hand, if everyone else can get knowledge from the Avvar and gradually build a society where mages at risk of possession can be quarantined temporarily until they are treated -- rather than being murdered or made tranquil -- then the general populace will already be safer than they are now, because mages will know they can trust the circle for treatment.
6. When asked how they would protect the average citizen from magical abuse, several of the most common answers have huge holes:
A. "Mages and Templars will work together". That might work in a more idealized and black and white setting, but Dragon Age is an adult story with complex characters and black and grey conflicts. So your suggestion is to not try at all? Keep Templars (and provide support for those who wish to get off lyrium and leave the order), or use Seekers instead, and have some way to secure the lyrium supply so we don't end up with another red Templar situation (as Templar supporters sometimes forget, it isn't just mages who can hurt the general population). Some authority needs to oversee the Templars to prevent abuses, both Templar abuses of mages and Templar abuses of other Templars. Instead of keeping most mages locked away for their entire lives, instead make it the norm for mages to have some job or duty, just like anyone else. Why should the general populace remain illiterate or uneducated when they've got a nearby tower full of scholars who could teach them? Why should villages face famine when there are mages with the power to help crops grow and flourish? Why should the local blacksmith be content to produce ordinary weapons and tools when there might be a mage at the local tower who would love to be hired on as an enchanter? Why shouldn't the circles produce some of their own food when there are probably plenty of mages there who spent their early childhoods on farms and might like to take up the trade of their parents? Or better yet, why snatch the farm-born mage child away, never to be seen by family again, when instead the chantry could help the family start a farm closer to their child, supporting themselves and the circle at the same time?
The mage's duty could be similar to whatever their parents' trade was, or whatever that particular mage is best at. Cultural change obviously takes time, and the transition would probably be chaotic, at least, but I really think something like this is the best balance between the old circle system and the disaster that is Tevinter.
7. Most likely we will be going to Tevinter in DA4, where Mages rule. Will you still help the oppressed underdog and give mundanes a leg up in the Imperium, or preserve the status quo for "Mage Power"? Of course I will still help the oppressed underdog. Anyone who says otherwise is evidently a slaver, or at least a supporter of slavery, and ought to be slapped around with a wet trout, at the very least.
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Oct 2, 2016 1:11:25 GMT
This topic is not about who to recruit the Inquisition (that is another topic...). This topic about that you agree with Templars, or agree with Mages, and what's your reason. Expecting me to pick one side or the other without giving me the situation or the context is ridiculous. Doing so means that nuance is lost. If you do not belive me, read my previous posts. My pick between Mages and Templars varies across each games with very different reasoning for each game, instead of the standard "oppression" argument, which almost never features as an argument since almost everyone can twist language and claim that they are oppressed in some manner. The Mage - Templar argument is a complex one and it is most definitely not a black and white,either - or situation.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 2, 2016 1:17:02 GMT
This topic is not about who to recruit the Inquisition (that is another topic...). This topic about that you agree with Templars, or agree with Mages, and what's your reason. Expecting me to pick one side or the other without giving me the situation or the context is ridiculous. Doing so means that nuance is lost. If you do not belive me, read my previous posts. My pick between Mages and Templars varies across each games with very different reasoning for each game, instead of the standard "oppression" argument, which almost never features as an argument since almost everyone can twist language and claim that they are oppressed in some manner. But is it. You support the innocents' sentenced to life imprisonment as a preventive options, or not. This is simple: black or white, 1 or 0. The solution may be different.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 1:25:14 GMT
Expecting me to pick one side or the other without giving me the situation or the context is ridiculous. Doing so means that nuance is lost. The Mage - Templar argument is a complex one and it is most definitely not a black and white,either - or situation. But is it. You support the innocents' sentenced to life imprisonment as a preventive options, or not. Albiet, they aren't the castless. You make the mages seem like there castless. No, they're not. I personally think that the mages are luckier than most in Thedas, with free education, no mods of innocent people trying to kill them and what not, and yeah a 'nice prisons is still a prison' thing. I personally think the circle should be a school of learning, rather than a prison - yeah, like Tevinter I suppose, but with police on hand (the Templars). Anyhow, it's not black and white - I say this as a person with Aspergers, who doesn't like grey things (this is a very grey topic for me).
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Post by Catilina on Oct 2, 2016 1:30:56 GMT
But is it. You support the innocents' sentenced to life imprisonment as a preventive options, or not. Albiet, they aren't the castless. You make the mages seem like there castless. No, they're not. I personally think that the mages are luckier than most in Thedas, with free education, no mods of innocent people trying to kill them and what not, and yeah a 'nice prisons is still a prison' thing. I personally think the circle should be a school of learning, rather than a prison - yeah, like Tevinter I suppose, but with police on hand (the Templars). Anyhow, it's not black and white - I say this as a person with Aspergers, who doesn't like grey things (this is a very grey topic for me). Look: They have food, they have books, they have bed, but they don't have privacy, they don't have family, they don't have LIFE. If they succeed to escape, they will be persecuted as a criminal. Yes, they are "casteless". Nobody care about, what happen behind the closed doors. For example take Fenris. He was a honored slave. I'm sure, he have more and better food, better bed etc, than much free people. (What said Varenia?: "the freedom was no boon" and Dorian said similar things.) Why people think then: the slavery is bad?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 2:04:02 GMT
Albiet, they aren't the castless. You make the mages seem like there castless. No, they're not. I personally think that the mages are luckier than most in Thedas, with free education, no mods of innocent people trying to kill them and what not, and yeah a 'nice prisons is still a prison' thing. I personally think the circle should be a school of learning, rather than a prison - yeah, like Tevinter I suppose, but with police on hand (the Templars). Anyhow, it's not black and white - I say this as a person with Aspergers, who doesn't like grey things (this is a very grey topic for me). Look: They have food, they have books, they have bed, but they don't have privacy, they don't have family, they don't have LIFE. Yes, they are "casteless". For example take Fenris. He was a honored slave. I'm sure, he have more food, better bed etc, than much poor people. (What said Varenia?: "the freedom was no boon" and Dorian said similar things.) Why people think then: the slavery is bad? No, they aren't. Castless don't have those things, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't complain one inch about what the mages have - it'd be one step up from fighting the dark spawn (which could turn them into brood mothers, or they could get eaten by the Darkspawn) into or going up above the surface and losing there title and life as they know it, of of course working for the Karta. The castless have less of a life than circle mages. Are you comparing this to slavery? I'd call it 'Chantry being paranoid and taking unreasonable steps to ensure that mages aren't being killed out on the streets for simply scaring innocent people out there minds due to hearing tales about how mages attract demons' and such. Plus the mages in DAI sounded like they wanted to go the back to the circle if you go after them; I'm sure it's not that bad if they want to back to that lifestyle, but I wouldn't know, I dont live in the Circle But I'd like too, to see if it's as bad as they say it is.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 2, 2016 2:13:26 GMT
Look: They have food, they have books, they have bed, but they don't have privacy, they don't have family, they don't have LIFE. Yes, they are "casteless". For example take Fenris. He was a honored slave. I'm sure, he have more food, better bed etc, than much poor people. (What said Varenia?: "the freedom was no boon" and Dorian said similar things.) Why people think then: the slavery is bad? No, they aren't. Castless don't have those things, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't complain one inch about what the mages have - it'd be one step up from fighting the dark spawn (which could turn them into brood mothers, or they could get eaten by the Darkspawn) into or going up above the surface and losing there title and life as they know it, of of course working for the Karta. The castless have less of a life than circle mages. Are you comparing this to slavery? I'd call it 'Chantry being paranoid and taking unreasonable steps to ensure that mages aren't being killed out on the streets for simply scaring innocent people out there minds due to hearing tales about how mages attract demons' and such. Plus the mages in DAI sounded like they wanted to go the back to the circle if you go after them; I'm sure it's not that bad if they want to back to that lifestyle, but I wouldn't know, I dont live in the Circle But I'd like too, to see if it's as bad as they say it is. I said: the mages are dangerous, yes, as a muscled, armed people. Why we don't to imprison all muscled, strong, battle-hardened, armed people, just because they are able to kill their neighbor? Just for sake to prevent of murder... Oh, I'm sure, the Circles are luxury hotels, and the Templars are service staff just for the mages. You played with the Origins, and you saw the "happy" Ferelden Circle? I saw that. And I found that a terrible place. Yes, as you wrote before, the Circles need to be schools and libraries.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 2:52:44 GMT
No, they aren't. Castless don't have those things, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't complain one inch about what the mages have - it'd be one step up from fighting the dark spawn (which could turn them into brood mothers, or they could get eaten by the Darkspawn) into or going up above the surface and losing there title and life as they know it, of of course working for the Karta. The castless have less of a life than circle mages. Are you comparing this to slavery? I'd call it 'Chantry being paranoid and taking unreasonable steps to ensure that mages aren't being killed out on the streets for simply scaring innocent people out there minds due to hearing tales about how mages attract demons' and such. Plus the mages in DAI sounded like they wanted to go the back to the circle if you go after them; I'm sure it's not that bad if they want to back to that lifestyle, but I wouldn't know, I dont live in the Circle But I'd like too, to see if it's as bad as they say it is. I said: the mages are dangerous, yes, as a muscled, armed people. Why we don't to imprison all muscled, strong, battle-hardened, armed people, just because they are able to kill their neighbor? Just for sake to prevent of murder... Oh, I'm sure, the Circles are luxury hotels, and the Templars are service staff just for the mages. You played with the Origins, and you saw the "happy" Ferelden Circle? I saw that. And I found that a terrible place. That's not a reasonable comparison, as unlike those muscled armed people, they can be turned into abomination. And magic can be like a gun in the wrong hands (and that gun has some no safety features), so you can kill people, but get yourself killed in the process (aka being possessed by a demon, and such). No seriously, I'd like to actually legit live there for a year and report back to you how truly gruesome it was. I kind of liked it actually, becuase unlike Orisino and Merdith, they actually got along to some extent and I was happy about that, and hat's what I like most about that circle. I'm just glad it's not Kirkwall to be honest, Kirkwall is a nightmare, both to me and to my characters (my female Surana more or less)
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Post by Catilina on Oct 2, 2016 2:59:38 GMT
I said: the mages are dangerous, yes, as a muscled, armed people. Why we don't to imprison all muscled, strong, battle-hardened, armed people, just because they are able to kill their neighbor? Just for sake to prevent of murder... Oh, I'm sure, the Circles are luxury hotels, and the Templars are service staff just for the mages. You played with the Origins, and you saw the "happy" Ferelden Circle? I saw that. And I found that a terrible place. That's not a reasonable comparison, as unlike those muscled armed people, they can be turned into abomination. And magic can be like a gun in the wrong hands (and that gun has some no safety features), so you can kill people, but get yourself killed in the process (aka being possessed by a demon, and such). No seriously, I'd like to actually legit live there for a year and report back to you how truly gruesome it was. I kind of liked it actually, becuase unlike Orisino and Merdith, they actually got along to some extent and I was happy about that, and hat's what I like most about that circle. I'm just glad it's not Kirkwall to be honest, Kirkwall is a nightmare, both to me and to my characters (my female Surana more or less) Do you think: so much mage want to be uncontrollable abomination? I think: really few mages want to risk this, then if they know, how to uses safely their magic, they will use on this way, and don't forget, the people don't always use their weapon. Much mages don't want to throw fireballs, just live their life. And I wrote (very often), need effective police (not lyrium addict Templars, rather similar than the Seekers), and registration. The registration already exist: this is the Chantry's blood magic – the phylactery system. this is not that bad, if uses only to catch the criminals.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 3:22:21 GMT
That's not a reasonable comparison, as unlike those muscled armed people, they can be turned into abomination. And magic can be like a gun in the wrong hands (and that gun has some no safety features), so you can kill people, but get yourself killed in the process (aka being possessed by a demon, and such). No seriously, I'd like to actually legit live there for a year and report back to you how truly gruesome it was. I kind of liked it actually, becuase unlike Orisino and Merdith, they actually got along to some extent and I was happy about that, and hat's what I like most about that circle. I'm just glad it's not Kirkwall to be honest, Kirkwall is a nightmare, both to me and to my characters (my female Surana more or less) Do you think: so much mage want to be uncontrollable abomination? I think: really few mages want to risk this, then if they know, how to uses safely their magic, they will use on this way, and don't forget, the people don't always use their weapon. Much mages don't want to throw fireballs, just live their life. And I wrote (very often), need effective police (not lyrium addict Templars, rather similar than the Seekers), and registration. The registration already exist: this is the Chantry's blood magic – the phylactery system. this is not that bad, if uses only to catch the criminals. Yeah, but they should go to school, I'm stating that the circle should be a borders school (for those who needs to learn about magic and all). True, but the Templars should be back-up for the Seekers (actually, Templar mages. That's a grand idea.) The Templars should be the general ordinary policemen, while the Seekers be the undercover cops/ hunt down and destroy abominations, blood mages, etc. I feel like that's the most effective system of handing it. It's better if the Templars still exist, though, cause of better relations with the Chantry (for Mage Templars, lol. And than the original templars)
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Post by Catilina on Oct 2, 2016 3:29:30 GMT
Do you think: so much mage want to be uncontrollable abomination? I think: really few mages want to risk this, then if they know, how to uses safely their magic, they will use on this way, and don't forget, the people don't always use their weapon. Much mages don't want to throw fireballs, just live their life. And I wrote (very often), need effective police (not lyrium addict Templars, rather similar than the Seekers), and registration. The registration already exist: this is the Chantry's blood magic – the phylactery system. this is not that bad, if uses only to catch the criminals. Yeah, but they should go to school, I'm stating that the circle should be a borders school (for those who needs to learn about magic and all). True, but the Templars should be back-up for the Seekers (actually, Templar mages. That's a grand idea.) The Templars should be the general ordinary policemen, while the Seekers be the undercover cops/ hunt down and destroy abominations, blood mages, etc. I feel like that's the most effective system of handing it. It's better if the Templars still exist, though, cause of better relations with the Chantry (for Mage Templars, lol. And than the original templars) Yes, the Circles are important as school and library, but more, and scattered place, because the concentrated magic can weaken the Veil. I think, too cruel to force people to addiction, I think the Templars need to find another way. And yes, need mages too inside this police.
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Oct 2, 2016 4:28:48 GMT
Expecting me to pick one side or the other without giving me the situation or the context is ridiculous. Doing so means that nuance is lost. If you do not belive me, read my previous posts. My pick between Mages and Templars varies across each games with very different reasoning for each game, instead of the standard "oppression" argument, which almost never features as an argument since almost everyone can twist language and claim that they are oppressed in some manner. But is it. You support the innocents' sentenced to life imprisonment as a preventive options, or not. This is simple: black or white, 1 or 0. The solution may be different. Unfortunately, the situation is not black and white. That life imprisonment grants shelter, food, clothing, safety, healthcare and quality education. Many of these things are not available to the majority of the populace in Thedas. There is no need to worry about bandit attacks, there is no need to worry about starving due to failed harvest, there is no need to worry when you get sick due to magical healing, you are valued during conflicts because magic and you recieve education that are better than some nobles will receive. Yes, there is no freedom, but in the medieval fantasy setting that is Thedas, there is more to life than just freedom such as basic survival. Like I have been saying all along, context and nuance matters. From your limited binary worldview, it is just pure oppression but there are many groups such as the Human underclass,Dwarven castless, City Elves, Qunari sarebaas, Tevinter slaves and Tevinter soporati would gladly live the life of a Circle Mage.
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