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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
27,995
gervaise21
11,476
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 1, 2024 7:08:54 GMT
Yes! This is one of the many things I hated about this DLC. When Josephine got upset at Leliana and Cullen for how they’ve handled this mess while she’s the one dealing with all the blowback while trying to keep us afloat, I wished we could have joined in with her. I remember saying “That’s what I wanted to do the whole time!” Why couldn’t we be honest with the council? That may have been deliberate by the writers to hint at how things had been happening behind your back. We thought we were in control but actually we weren't. It wasn't just the enemy agents infiltrating the organisation. I've mentioned before how Leliana must have rubbished the reputation of the Grey Wardens behind my back even though I gave her instructions not to, because if I sent them away for their own safety suddenly in the epilogue everyone knows about it and shuns them as a result. It wasn't as though there were that many people at Adamant other than the Wardens who witnessed my decision and if word was spreading anyway, why did Leliana specifically ask me about it? Then there is that whole business with the Chantry sister in her personal quest. I ordered her not to kill the sister; she did it anyway. Then she started blackmailing people to get their support. None of that was done with my approval So, even though I blocked her becoming Divine, it would still have damaged my reputation. How could we be sure Leliana hadn't done other things in the interim that made people want the Inquisition gone? After all, she was recommending disbanding to us so clearly that was her preferred option, so we could continue to work in the shadows.
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31,166
Hanako Ikezawa
22,801
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 1, 2024 7:35:10 GMT
Yes! This is one of the many things I hated about this DLC. When Josephine got upset at Leliana and Cullen for how they’ve handled this mess while she’s the one dealing with all the blowback while trying to keep us afloat, I wished we could have joined in with her. I remember saying “That’s what I wanted to do the whole time!” Why couldn’t we be honest with the council? That may have been deliberate by the writers to hint at how things had been happening behind your back. We thought we were in control but actually we weren't. It wasn't just the enemy agents infiltrating the organisation. I've mentioned before how Leliana must have rubbished the reputation of the Grey Wardens behind my back even though I gave her instructions not to, because if I sent them away for their own safety suddenly in the epilogue everyone knows about it and shuns them as a result. It wasn't as though there were that many people at Adamant other than the Wardens who witnessed my decision and if word was spreading anyway, why did Leliana specifically ask me about it? Then there is that whole business with the Chantry sister in her personal quest. I ordered her not to kill the sister; she did it anyway. Then she started blackmailing people to get their support. None of that was done with my approval So, even though I blocked her becoming Divine, it would still have damaged my reputation. How could we be sure Leliana hadn't done other things in the interim that made people want the Inquisition gone? After all, she was recommending disbanding to us so clearly that was her preferred option, so we could continue to work in the shadows. Interesting. I’ve never banished the Wardens or had her ignore me in her personal quest so I’ve never had these experiences you’re talking about. That said, even in my game BioWare made her another victim of theirs, bludgeoning her with the Idiot Stick so many times despite telling us how competent she is. And yeah after that while I didn’t want to necessarily disband the Inquisition, I definitely wanted a new spymaster and commander. Josephine is the only advisor that’s always actually good at her job.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
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gervaise21
11,476
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 1, 2024 8:20:26 GMT
Josephine is the only advisor that’s always actually good at her job. She was also the only adviser I absolutely trusted to do as I asked, although much of the time I left her to do her job without interfering because, as you say, she was clearly good at it. I doubt the Inquisition would have grown as powerful so quickly without her. I've already said elsewhere that I never quite understood why Cullen was chosen to be our military adviser, other than his Chantry connection and Cassandra had offered it to him. On the whole, I was happy with his advice on the War Table because I did not approve of Leliana's underhanded methods or Josephine's diplomatic pragmatism in certain circumstances (like the one where we are deciding what to do with the weeping Halla) but when it came to actual military advice I was unclear what his role was. I definitely formed the impression that he was chosen as much for the fact that he would follow orders (from the rest of us) as actually supply useful tactical expertise in the field. To be honest, whilst we had soldiers serving in the Inquisition, its strength was always in its diplomatic ties and spy network more than its martial forces.
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catcher
N2
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Casts Wall of Text
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 228 Likes: 370
Member is Online
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11818
0
Member is Online
370
catcher
Casts Wall of Text
228
February 2021
catcher
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by catcher on Jul 3, 2024 0:58:45 GMT
Thank you for your time... and all the bad news ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/QzIdgrwGhvVEkWKQAyNQ.png) In fact, I would call them good news if that's what happened because it would mean that BioWare would put a lot of detailed thought even into somewhat minor NPCs like Teagan. I agree with your first point. BioWare essentially pulled their version of a tabletop GM starting a scene with "Before any of you can react..." See also the ambush by the bandit king in "The Gamers". Sometimes it's just the most convenient way to get a plot off the launch pad. I would have been happy with just some minor interactions on the matter. Like discussing giving up the keeps with Josephine and if there were reasons against that being able to give these reasons when challenged instead of just looking like a fool for something I had no say in. As far as anything else goes... I think the reason for those things is just BioWare being inconsistent in their writing. If no names would have been given, how many players would have looked at and talked to Teagan and recognized the man? Or Redcliffe for that matter? Sometimes BioWare doesn't follow up on plot ideas, sometimes things just change. I mean, the Ghost of Lady Aribeth in the overrated Hordes of the Underdark gave you a different background story than the living Lady Aribeth in the main game because the writer hadn't read her character's history before doing his thing. You have to kill both Meredith and Orsino at the end of DA2 not because of some great tragedy writing but because BioWare wanted two boss fights. And so on. In retrospect, that whole post came out a bit harsher than I intended, but this tends to be a sore spot for me because I knew a couple of Bioware writers before they 'were famous'. I remember they were just as big geeks about the games and the stories and the lore as any one of the best of us so I tend to look at their work through that lens. Definitely still means there are mistakes though some (like Orsino) come from somewhere outside the writers room. Remember, the Inquisition team even threw in a shout out to how bad that was. If they had more time, I think they would have given a little more context before dropping us into Trespasser, but they had a metric *ton of lore to drop including several things that completely blew previously accepted lore apart. Something else I just now discovered, have you ever watched a video of ALL the conversation options available in Trespasser? It loops back over and over, of course but the sheer number of different options acknowledging what the Player had done in the main game is staggering (and occasionally enlightening or funny). I really believe that there are people on this forum who put way more thought and effort in the game lore than BioWare do themselves. Knowing those two writers and imagining that they are the type of people that Bioware would hire...I doubt that's as accurate as you think. We do have the advantage of being a million monkeys, but I am sure there are some pretty deep discussions that make me look like the hack I am. Thanks anyway. Hope we all can enjoy Veilguard. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/QzIdgrwGhvVEkWKQAyNQ.png) I do, however, knowing those people, doubt
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Gileadan
N5
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,739 Likes: 6,830
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Agent 46
177
0
6,830
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,739
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Jul 3, 2024 5:22:59 GMT
Thank you for your time... and all the bad news ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/QzIdgrwGhvVEkWKQAyNQ.png) In fact, I would call them good news if that's what happened because it would mean that BioWare would put a lot of detailed thought even into somewhat minor NPCs like Teagan. I agree with your first point. BioWare essentially pulled their version of a tabletop GM starting a scene with "Before any of you can react..." See also the ambush by the bandit king in "The Gamers". Sometimes it's just the most convenient way to get a plot off the launch pad. I would have been happy with just some minor interactions on the matter. Like discussing giving up the keeps with Josephine and if there were reasons against that being able to give these reasons when challenged instead of just looking like a fool for something I had no say in. As far as anything else goes... I think the reason for those things is just BioWare being inconsistent in their writing. If no names would have been given, how many players would have looked at and talked to Teagan and recognized the man? Or Redcliffe for that matter? Sometimes BioWare doesn't follow up on plot ideas, sometimes things just change. I mean, the Ghost of Lady Aribeth in the overrated Hordes of the Underdark gave you a different background story than the living Lady Aribeth in the main game because the writer hadn't read her character's history before doing his thing. You have to kill both Meredith and Orsino at the end of DA2 not because of some great tragedy writing but because BioWare wanted two boss fights. And so on. In retrospect, that whole post came out a bit harsher than I intended, but this tends to be a sore spot for me because I knew a couple of Bioware writers before they 'were famous'. I remember they were just as big geeks about the games and the stories and the lore as any one of the best of us so I tend to look at their work through that lens. Definitely still means there are mistakes though some (like Orsino) come from somewhere outside the writers room. Remember, the Inquisition team even threw in a shout out to how bad that was. If they had more time, I think they would have given a little more context before dropping us into Trespasser, but they had a metric *ton of lore to drop including several things that completely blew previously accepted lore apart. Something else I just now discovered, have you ever watched a video of ALL the conversation options available in Trespasser? It loops back over and over, of course but the sheer number of different options acknowledging what the Player had done in the main game is staggering (and occasionally enlightening or funny). I really believe that there are people on this forum who put way more thought and effort in the game lore than BioWare do themselves. Knowing those two writers and imagining that they are the type of people that Bioware would hire...I doubt that's as accurate as you think. We do have the advantage of being a million monkeys, but I am sure there are some pretty deep discussions that make me look like the hack I am. Thanks anyway. Hope we all can enjoy Veilguard. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/QzIdgrwGhvVEkWKQAyNQ.png) I do, however, knowing those people, doubt Ah, there's a good point that didn't come to my mind. Someone outside the writer's gang knowing better. I remember that someone higher up the totem pole made them add horses to DAI for example but I didn't think they'd mess with the lore and story. I probably came off harsher than I should have, so please accept my apology. I grateful for your thoughtful perspective on things. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KGsHESiZGZU0pPuHuhQr.png)
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