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Post by Amburu on Nov 29, 2024 23:00:57 GMT
Yes, I imagine he will revert to Wisdom when he goes to the Fade with Lavellan, no reason not to. I think furthermore Lavellan's love and trust will be a positive influence for the benign aspects of his spirit to persist. There's a dialogue option in the 2nd scene with Inquisitor where Rook can support romanced Lavellan to keep pursuing romance with Solas that basically amounts to "if you two are better people together and are happy, that's what matters". And I do think that's what matters.
Like, I don't really think of Solas as a spirit - he isn't one even by his own admission, even if he sorely misses that early period in his life. He's a person, and as such, he can change and be a better version of himself with someone he loves and supports by his side (and whom he loves and supports and makes better in return).
With everything said... boy do I wonder how exactly he intends to address the healing of the blight's anger and whether we're ever going to explore this, or we at least get some hints from the writers... Indeed but he also seems to imply everyone does have a spirit inside like when he asks a befriended inquisitor if they felt their anchor had any influence on theirs so i feel like thats still relevant !! which serves me greatly because i love spirits the most in this series //clenches fist//
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 30, 2024 4:43:23 GMT
Yes, I imagine he will revert to Wisdom when he goes to the Fade with Lavellan, no reason not to. I think furthermore Lavellan's love and trust will be a positive influence for the benign aspects of his spirit to persist. There's a dialogue option in the 2nd scene with Inquisitor where Rook can support romanced Lavellan to keep pursuing romance with Solas that basically amounts to "if you two are better people together and are happy, that's what matters". And I do think that's what matters.
Like, I don't really think of Solas as a spirit - he isn't one even by his own admission, even if he sorely misses that early period in his life. He's a person, and as such, he can change and be a better version of himself with someone he loves and supports by his side (and whom he loves and supports and makes better in return).
With everything said... boy do I wonder how exactly he intends to address the healing of the blight's anger and whether we're ever going to explore this, or we at least get some hints from the writers... I mean, spirits are still people, they just don't have physical bodies. And I think Solas identifies as both a spirit and an ancient elf, or perhaps as Emmrich more succinctly puts it, a "manifested spirit".
I'm not suggesting he'll regress to the person he was before he took physical form. He's had thousands (?) of years of additional experiences, positive and negative, that would have made him more than what he was before, and this is even before Lavellan's influence on him. So I do think him becoming a "better version of himself" is highly likely for the Solavellan path. Additionally, if he says to Emmrich, "I prefer to be known as Wisdom", it sounds like his past identity will feature strongly in the person he becomes.
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Post by Amburu on Nov 30, 2024 7:14:54 GMT
Yes!! ~happy sigh~ lol
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Post by Amburu on Nov 30, 2024 16:58:08 GMT
GREATLY enjoyed this hilarious chaotic-but-pretty-accurate reenactment of the story of Solas. It's so good. I wanna print it LOL
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Nov 30, 2024 18:57:48 GMT
GREATLY enjoyed this hilarious chaotic-but-pretty-accurate reenactment of the story of Solas. It's so good. I wanna print it LOL Omg, this is life. So good! Seriously, though...my Inky was so effing fed up with Thedas' shit, fade jail is a vacation.
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Post by fistoffiori on Nov 30, 2024 19:02:02 GMT
So I started a second playthrough (to pick up in a couple of months later maybe) and noticed something great about Solas, in a point either considered the end of the prologue or just after the prologue, which is fantastic after knowing what happens in the rest of the game. (MAJOR SPOILERS FOR ACT 3 OF THE GAME, obviously!) When you say about Varric being "hurt", Solas yells "Varric is...", clearly about to say "... dead", but he does a little head turn and pauses what he says for a moment, his mind clearly going at 100mph.
Just witnessing him really quickly coming up with his idea to make Rook think Varric is still alive haha. Nice touch that most people won't notice until a re-play!
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 1, 2024 6:05:37 GMT
GREATLY enjoyed this hilarious chaotic-but-pretty-accurate reenactment of the story of Solas. It's so good. I wanna print it LOL Um... .... HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THIS?!
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 1, 2024 6:09:09 GMT
So... regarding ACT 3 of VG and my ending choice. I went through all the work required to get the Mythal fragment, told Lavellan it was ok to be happy, the works...
And then act 3 happened and I chose the "trick with fake knife" option, even though the third option was available. Am I out of the club? lol
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Dec 1, 2024 6:17:46 GMT
So... regarding ACT 3 of VG and my ending choice. I went through all the work required to get the Mythal fragment, told Lavellan it was ok to be happy, the works...
And then act 3 happened and I chose the "trick with fake knife" option, even though the third option was available. Am I out of the club? lol BEGONE, BLASPHEMER!
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 1, 2024 7:15:28 GMT
So... regarding ACT 3 of VG and my ending choice. I went through all the work required to get the Mythal fragment, told Lavellan it was ok to be happy, the works...
And then act 3 happened and I chose the "trick with fake knife" option, even though the third option was available. Am I out of the club? lol BEGONE, BLASPHEMER! Oh good, just checking. Srsly, though: He manipulated Rook's mind to forget Varric died, and he says sorry all the time, but never actually changes. I was willing to forgive and allow the aforementioned mind game if he showed any kind of actual remorse... and then he ends our next interaction with ANOTHER manipulative lie. I didn't even need Bellara/Neve to tell me it was a lie, I could tell by his language choice that it was BS. He already backstabbed me; this was his chance to make up for it and he lied to my face.
I might go with the third option as canon later, cus my Rook is Mourn Watch and giving spirits peace is part of their deal so its feasible... but yeah, too ticked at him right now, honestly. There was that one glimmer of hope with the Blood of Arlathan quest, but when he flips the tables and traps Rook in their regrets and includes rather snidely alluding to Varric actually being dead as if Rook should know as if Solas isn't the very reason they don't.... its the same "Oh look at how corrupt your organization is as I infiltrate and corrupt it" thing again. In the end, I just felt duped for ever having hopes for him at all.
To crib a comment I saw elsewhere, they made Solas brimming with flaws in Veilguard. If you didn't play Inqusition, there's virtually nothing redeemable about him in this game. I mean, I tried the third ending to see it and I feel good seeing him finally change his damn mind. But I am having a heck of a time justifying a Rook getting to that point.
The Egg remains frustrating.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Dec 1, 2024 7:40:12 GMT
BEGONE, BLASPHEMER! Oh good, just checking. Srsly, though: He manipulated Rook's mind to forget Varric died, and he says sorry all the time, but never actually changes. I was willing to forgive and allow the aforementioned mind game if he showed any kind of actual remorse... and then he ends our next interaction with ANOTHER manipulative lie. I didn't even need Bellara/Neve to tell me it was a lie, I could tell by his language choice that it was BS. He already backstabbed me; this was his chance to make up for it and he lied to my face.
I might go with the third option as canon later, cus my Rook is Mourn Watch and giving spirits peace is part of their deal so its feasible... but yeah, too ticked at him right now, honestly. There was that one glimmer of hope with the Blood of Arlathan quest, but when he flips the tables and traps Rook in their regrets and includes rather snidely alluding to Varric actually being dead as if Rook should know as if Solas isn't the very reason they don't.... its the same "Oh look at how corrupt your organization is as I infiltrate and corrupt it" thing again. In the end, I just felt duped for ever having hopes for him at all.
To crib a comment I saw elsewhere, they made Solas brimming with flaws in Veilguard. If you didn't play Inqusition, there's virtually nothing redeemable about him in this game. I mean, I tried the third ending to see it and I feel good seeing him finally change his damn mind. But I am having a heck of a time justifying a Rook getting to that point.
The Egg remains frustrating. We knew going in it wasn't going to be easy. He never makes things easy. It was probably much easier for me because I honestly couldn't give less of a damn about Rook if I tried. I just...can't connect with them as a protagonist at all. And I was over Varric after Inquisition. Him in Veilguard was just overstaying his welcome for me, so the whole 'tricked into fade jail and btw you pal is dead' thing was completely wasted on me. Lavellan's opinion was the only one that mattered to me.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 1, 2024 8:07:28 GMT
Oh good, just checking. Srsly, though: He manipulated Rook's mind to forget Varric died, and he says sorry all the time, but never actually changes. I was willing to forgive and allow the aforementioned mind game if he showed any kind of actual remorse... and then he ends our next interaction with ANOTHER manipulative lie. I didn't even need Bellara/Neve to tell me it was a lie, I could tell by his language choice that it was BS. He already backstabbed me; this was his chance to make up for it and he lied to my face.
I might go with the third option as canon later, cus my Rook is Mourn Watch and giving spirits peace is part of their deal so its feasible... but yeah, too ticked at him right now, honestly. There was that one glimmer of hope with the Blood of Arlathan quest, but when he flips the tables and traps Rook in their regrets and includes rather snidely alluding to Varric actually being dead as if Rook should know as if Solas isn't the very reason they don't.... its the same "Oh look at how corrupt your organization is as I infiltrate and corrupt it" thing again. In the end, I just felt duped for ever having hopes for him at all.
To crib a comment I saw elsewhere, they made Solas brimming with flaws in Veilguard. If you didn't play Inqusition, there's virtually nothing redeemable about him in this game. I mean, I tried the third ending to see it and I feel good seeing him finally change his damn mind. But I am having a heck of a time justifying a Rook getting to that point.
The Egg remains frustrating. We knew going in it wasn't going to be easy. He never makes things easy. It was probably much easier for me because I honestly couldn't give less of a damn about Rook if I tried. I just...can't connect with them as a protagonist at all. And I was over Varric after Inquisition. Him in Veilguard was just overstaying his welcome for me, so the whole 'tricked into fade jail and btw you pal is dead' thing was completely wasted on me. Lavellan's opinion was the only one that mattered to me. Yeah, those are definitely different circumstances. lol I'm not gonna say too much more cus I don't wanna rain on the blanketfort's parade. No one likes soggy blankets. I just have very negative feels for the egg right now.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 1, 2024 8:59:48 GMT
BEGONE, BLASPHEMER! Oh good, just checking. Srsly, though: He manipulated Rook's mind to forget Varric died, and he says sorry all the time, but never actually changes. I was willing to forgive and allow the aforementioned mind game if he showed any kind of actual remorse... and then he ends our next interaction with ANOTHER manipulative lie. I didn't even need Bellara/Neve to tell me it was a lie, I could tell by his language choice that it was BS. He already backstabbed me; this was his chance to make up for it and he lied to my face.
I might go with the third option as canon later, cus my Rook is Mourn Watch and giving spirits peace is part of their deal so its feasible... but yeah, too ticked at him right now, honestly. There was that one glimmer of hope with the Blood of Arlathan quest, but when he flips the tables and traps Rook in their regrets and includes rather snidely alluding to Varric actually being dead as if Rook should know as if Solas isn't the very reason they don't.... its the same "Oh look at how corrupt your organization is as I infiltrate and corrupt it" thing again. In the end, I just felt duped for ever having hopes for him at all.
To crib a comment I saw elsewhere, they made Solas brimming with flaws in Veilguard. If you didn't play Inqusition, there's virtually nothing redeemable about him in this game. I mean, I tried the third ending to see it and I feel good seeing him finally change his damn mind. But I am having a heck of a time justifying a Rook getting to that point.
The Egg remains frustrating. Solas' story in Veilguard isn't really about him changing so much throughout that story - we're mostly learning (and experiencing!) why he is the way he is, through exploration of the past and paralells between actions of Solas and Rook. Naturally, those who played DAI know more, but that's nothing new; we always got more context if we played previous games, etc; these are not standalone stories that need to be reiterated fully in every chapter.
And, as in DAI and Trespasser, Solas remains a conflicted individual who is at the very end of the path he's too broken to step away from on his own. He quite literally can't stop acting the way he does, as he's lost too much over millenia to see a way out - because of that, he either condemns himself to become the thing he hates, or we're willing to see that there's enough of actual Solas left in the Dread Wolf to offer him a chance at redemption (and, as it turns out, if we have strong enough intervention commitee: there is).
And I personally never had a problem with justifying that path - I mean, aside from being a redemption arc trash and usually picking a redemptive path to most characters that can be ofered it, after Veilguard I actually feel a little bit validated, because it turns out my speculations about his character were quite spot on: his guilt and damage isn't really about the Veil, or just about the Veil (or even Mythal, who - like the Veil - is in many ways a symbolic representation of guilt) - while it remains a thing he desperately wants to fix for what it does to the world, it's more about things in his past that have led to Veil's creation, that he's either facilitated or was helpless to stop, despite centuries of efforts.
As it turns out, the fate of his spirit friend in DAI closely mirrors his own fate - he got pulled out from the Fade, and everything that happened shortly after twisted him against his original purpose - although the fact that he's effectively did this out of affection and loyalty only makes this more tragic (and also sheds more light on his actions in Crestwood or not allowing Lavellan to follow him - following someone out of love and loyalty ended in tragedy for him and, eventually, the world)
From my standpoint it's hard to not feel sympathetic.
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Post by Amburu on Dec 2, 2024 8:55:31 GMT
I don't wanna rain on the blanketfort's parade. No one likes soggy blankets. I just have very negative feels for the egg right now. You're a kind person to think of protecting us from the perils of humidity (been mountain camping in october and thats a serious threat i was so uncomfortable despite a good airflow /shudders/), but don't forget The thread is populated by Solas lovers, Solas fuckers and Solas haters alike; in the immortal words of Jon Renish, "half the community wants to kill him, half the people want to marry him, and another part want to do both" If you didn't play Inqusition, there's virtually nothing redeemable about him in this game Interesting, I paused to consider and I /think/ there's still enough to appeal to my empathy. The genesis story is </3 no matter what plus there's all the memories, regrets and messages from felassan. When he tricks rook we get to see his [business] side but thats just a mask -> "the things i've done ;-;" in every single one of the historical murals he's holding his chest and head in suffering too. He abhors every last thing he's ever done and that's such a shit place to be in mentally And no matter which ending you're picking he's not running from the responsibility of his actions, it only changes the specifics (remaining eternally alone in wrath, in resignation, or having sympathetic company) It was probably much easier for me because I honestly couldn't give less of a damn about Rook if I tried. I just...can't connect with them as a protagonist at all. I did wince on their behalf because that was a highly chilling moment indeed, I wouldnt wish that on anyone for sure, but I'm with you otherwise lol they felt like a chess piece in every sense of the word... Just a way to mobe the plot in a desired direction (-> SOLAS, that's the direction lmao)
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Post by DragonRacer on Dec 2, 2024 12:54:36 GMT
Yeah, I feel bad for my Rook because while she's... okay... I do not connect with her the way I have my past protagonists, most especially Inquisitor. At this point, even though I've done my best to make Rook her own person, she exists to make things move in the direction my Inquisitor would want them to. LOL Nothing like your new protag feeling like just a proxy for your former protag.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Dec 2, 2024 14:48:48 GMT
I did wince on their behalf because that was a highly chilling moment indeed, I wouldnt wish that on anyone for sure, I mean, sure I felt sorta bad. The way you feel bad when you hear that a friend of a friend's aunt died. I'm not heartless.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Dec 2, 2024 14:51:52 GMT
Yeah, I feel bad for my Rook because while she's... okay... I do not connect with her the way I have my past protagonists, most especially Inquisitor. At this point, even though I've done my best to make Rook her own person, she exists to make things move in the direction my Inquisitor would want them to. LOL Nothing like your new protag feeling like just a proxy for your former protag. I'm so glad I'm not alone in this.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 2, 2024 15:24:58 GMT
Yeah, I feel bad for my Rook because while she's... okay... I do not connect with her the way I have my past protagonists, most especially Inquisitor. At this point, even though I've done my best to make Rook her own person, she exists to make things move in the direction my Inquisitor would want them to. LOL Nothing like your new protag feeling like just a proxy for your former protag. I'm so glad I'm not alone in this. I was very vocal about wanting Inquisitor to be involved (in more ways that they eventually ended up being involved, and I can think of several minor ways that what we got could be slightly improved), but it's easy to be vocal about something when we don't know where exactly the story is heading, and they've been preparing us for a new protag ever since Mark Darrah revealed the red book with image of rook on it in 2016. And I personally don't have much of a problem connecting with Rook, same way like I have no problem connecting with Hawke (Rook is more like Hawke than Inky or HoF, despite us being able to customize them much more than Hawke - after all, Varric was tasked by Inky to find someone with the sort of traits that would help beat Solas). Different strokes for different folks, however.
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Post by Amburu on Dec 2, 2024 16:29:10 GMT
I did wince on their behalf because that was a highly chilling moment indeed, I wouldnt wish that on anyone for sure, I mean, sure I felt sorta bad. The way you feel bad when you hear that a friend of a friend's aunt died. I'm not heartless. //spits drink// LOL
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 2, 2024 17:03:39 GMT
Oh, btw. - I think most of us knew that they were talking about someone else (given that Solas consistently calls his spirit of Wisdom friend 'it') and now we know for sure who that someone is.
Cole: Bright and brilliant, he wanders the ways, walking unwaking, searching for wisdom... Solas: I do not need you to do that, Cole. Cole: Your friend wanted you to be happy, even though she knew you wouldn't be. Solas: (Sighs.) Could you... if you would remember her, could you do it as I would? Cole: He comes to me as though the Fade were just another wooded path to walk without a care in search of wisdom. Cole: We share the ancient mysteries, the feelings lost, forgotten dreams, unseen for ages, now beheld in wonder. Cole: In his own way, he knew wisdom, as no man or spirit had before. Solas: Thank you.
...Which, of course, makes me wonder what kind of 'ancient mysteries and forgotten dreams' they're talking about and how long the timeline of Thedas is?
I think we may forget that the timeline in which the Veiled Thedas and Elvhen Empire happened may *maybe* cover the period that on Earth would roughly cover period from now back to maybe the emergence of what we now collectively call Ancient Greece, while to Ancient Greeks stuff that happened in Egypt or Mesopotamia were as far removed from time as times of ancient Greece are removed for us and more. There's so much we're yet to know.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Dec 2, 2024 17:25:30 GMT
Oh, btw. - I think most of us knew that they were talking about someone else (given that Solas consistently calls his spirit of Wisdom friend 'it') and now we know for sure who that someone is. Cole: Bright and brilliant, he wanders the ways, walking unwaking, searching for wisdom... Solas: I do not need you to do that, Cole. Cole: Your friend wanted you to be happy, even though she knew you wouldn't be. Solas: (Sighs.) Could you... if you would remember her, could you do it as I would? Cole: He comes to me as though the Fade were just another wooded path to walk without a care in search of wisdom. Cole: We share the ancient mysteries, the feelings lost, forgotten dreams, unseen for ages, now beheld in wonder. Cole: In his own way, he knew wisdom, as no man or spirit had before. Solas: Thank you. ...Which, of course, makes me wonder what kind of 'ancient mysteries and forgotten dreams' they're talking about and how long the timeline of Thedas is? I think we may forget that the timeline in which the Veiled Thedas and Elvhen Empire happened may *maybe* cover the period that on Earth would roughly cover period from now back to maybe the emergence of what we now collectively call Ancient Greece, while to Ancient Greeks stuff that happened in Egypt or Mesopotamia were as far removed from time as times of ancient Greece are removed for us and more. There's so much we're yet to know. It's hard to say for sure how old Thedas is, but we do know Solas has been around for most of its history. In the letters between him and Elgar'nan, it says Elgar'nan 'woke at the dawn of the elves', which I assume means he was one of the first spirits to gain sentience. And Solas states he 'is no younger'. So they're both old as dirt. As for the convo between Solas and Cole, we are thinking it's about Mythal? Sounds about right. Solas seems to have a fair bit of Stockholm syndrome where she's concerned, and it makes me feel like crap for the Mythal vallaslin my Inky had. A daily reminder of his abuser can't have been easy. No wonder he was so relieved when she let him take it away.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 2, 2024 20:34:48 GMT
...Which, of course, makes me wonder what kind of 'ancient mysteries and forgotten dreams' they're talking about and how long the timeline of Thedas is? I think we may forget that the timeline in which the Veiled Thedas and Elvhen Empire happened may *maybe* cover the period that on Earth would roughly cover period from now back to maybe the emergence of what we now collectively call Ancient Greece, while to Ancient Greeks stuff that happened in Egypt or Mesopotamia were as far removed from time as times of ancient Greece are removed for us and more. There's so much we're yet to know. The fact that, in the attack on the citadel memory in the crossroads, Solas talked about Elgar’nan (or maybe just the evanuris) having a “relic” in their citadel really supports the idea that elvhen manifestation is not the earliest civilization we’ve got going. The use of the term relic heavily implies there was something older that the relic came from. You *can* use the term for something older but still from your own civilization, but I don’t think that’s the case here. I don’t think immortals who *are* the oldest generation of their civilization would use “relic” to describe something their generation made. It has to be something from someone else.
Then there’s the embodiment mural memory mentioning becoming more human by taking on a body and the fact we still don’t know quite where humans fit in all this. And the mentions of the scaled ones in the descent. Definitely room for a more ancient civilization than elvhenan still. Edit: sry what’s the rules for spoiler tags at this point?
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Dec 3, 2024 21:36:54 GMT
Size comparison for the Dread Pupper, if anyone happens to be interested:
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Post by lucidae on Dec 4, 2024 9:40:22 GMT
I finished the game today. I'm so happy with the solavellan closure.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 4, 2024 20:36:03 GMT
Solasmancers! Apparently we are a legion
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