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Post by Psychedelic on Apr 21, 2018 23:54:14 GMT
I can think of many different endings that could qualify as happy/happy-ish without Inky and Solas riding off into the Fade-green sunset - same way, I could think of scenarios that would feel not satisfying regardless whether one redeems or kills the bastard. I mean, heck... do we even know people like Solas can be killed? For good? What does death means for someone who's immortal? While it diminished her, it seemed to have made Mythal more determined when she got killed, and that was done by people way more powerful and knowledgeable as to how one probably could kill a being like that. Even Solas seems to have basically created the Veil to (either predominantly or among other things) seal the other Evanuris away from the world, because 'the first of his people don't die so easily'... I just meant the kind of ending I personally would find most satisfying is not necessarily redemption, but make him rethink his chosen path, find an alternative to tearing down the veil, or at least do it in a less genocidal way. I just can't see what to do with his character after that. Elfroot farmer in the Dales? New elvhen god-king who restores their lost empire? Not going to happen, therefore the "good death", in whatever fashion, to remove him from the story. I don't think Solas can be killed as in "ends to exist", but going to the fade permanently would be close enough. That's where most Thedosians believe they go after they have died, so from that perspective it would be the closest thing to being dead in any case. If he likes the fade so much it might even qualify as "happy" ending for him, who knows.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 22, 2018 0:01:49 GMT
I can think of many different endings that could qualify as happy/happy-ish without Inky and Solas riding off into the Fade-green sunset - same way, I could think of scenarios that would feel not satisfying regardless whether one redeems or kills the bastard. I mean, heck... do we even know people like Solas can be killed? For good? What does death means for someone who's immortal? While it diminished her, it seemed to have made Mythal more determined when she got killed, and that was done by people way more powerful and knowledgeable as to how one probably could kill a being like that. Even Solas seems to have basically created the Veil to (either predominantly or among other things) seal the other Evanuris away from the world, because 'the first of his people don't die so easily'... I just meant the kind of ending I personally would find most satisfying is not necessarily redemption, but make him rethink his chosen path, find an alternative to tearing down the veil, or at least do it in a less genocidal way. I just can't see what to do with his character after that. Elfroot farmer in the Dales? New elvhen god-king who restores their lost empire? Not going to happen, therefore the "good death", in whatever fashion, to remove him from the story. I don't think Solas can be killed as in "ends to exist", but going to the fade permanently would be close enough. That's where most Thedosians believe they go after they have died, so from that perspective it would be the closest thing to being dead in any case. If he likes the fade so much it might even qualify as "happy" ending for him, who knows. If he drops out of major events at the end of things, he could travel and actually be the wandering, anonymous sage he only wore as a mask when he first met us. He doesn't *have* to fulfill the "redemption through death" trope.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 22, 2018 0:23:33 GMT
I can think of many different endings that could qualify as happy/happy-ish without Inky and Solas riding off into the Fade-green sunset - same way, I could think of scenarios that would feel not satisfying regardless whether one redeems or kills the bastard. I mean, heck... do we even know people like Solas can be killed? For good? What does death means for someone who's immortal? While it diminished her, it seemed to have made Mythal more determined when she got killed, and that was done by people way more powerful and knowledgeable as to how one probably could kill a being like that. Even Solas seems to have basically created the Veil to (either predominantly or among other things) seal the other Evanuris away from the world, because 'the first of his people don't die so easily'... I just meant the kind of ending I personally would find most satisfying is not necessarily redemption, but make him rethink his chosen path, find an alternative to tearing down the veil, or at least do it in a less genocidal way. I just can't see what to do with his character after that. Elfroot farmer in the Dales? New elvhen god-king who restores their lost empire? Not going to happen, therefore the "good death", in whatever fashion, to remove him from the story. But that assumes that after whatever happens in DA4 Solas will have nothing else to do. And the redemption path description in the game itself says that we are supposed to not end his plans, but "change his plans"... change his plans to what? That indicates that there'd be more to do after we deal with Fen'Harel (which is like... duh... that Blight in the corner looks quite... Blighty). And given that there have been some implications made in the story that Solas is grooming Inky as his successor, I assume he's not grooming them to just sit and fart on a fancy throne or inherit his golden leggings... Besides - even if we end up with some sort of future in which everyone could relax a little, I'm unsure as to why you don't see use for a knowledgeable character who, as we know well from story, "wants to give wisdom, not orders". I can't think of no better role for Solas than sharing and cultivating knowledge that was mostly lost to the world, or teaching a new generation of Dreamers how to enter and explore the Fade. In fact I'm fairly sure that - if he had the choice - that'd be pretty much his dream-job (no pun intended). Not saying that it'd happen - just that I can think of dozens of ways ancient elves, with their skills or knowledge, could be utilized in times of relative peace, or feel like they're actually making amends. We already know that what Thedosians believe isn't always close to the truth. They didn't even know that the Veil wasn't always there, so how they could know what happens with people after they die? Nevermind that the Fade has always been part of the world, even the Veiled one, and who knows - perhaps there would be time where it'd meld back with reality? In that scenario I'm not sure one can 'go to the Fade permanently' without it still meaning that one is alive and quite well.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 24, 2018 13:20:08 GMT
I think it some ways returning to the Fade for Solas is his natural state of existence. From that point of view, everyday outside it is exile for him. He can still go there in his mind but he is bodily still stuck this side of the Veil.
As for the afterlife, the main view is the Chantry one but I wouldn't place much store by anything taught by them now. I prefer to look to the older cultures such as the Avvar. Whilst they believe that the majority of people depart to be reunited with their kin in the afterlife, they also believe that some favoured souls will be reborn. They also believe that one of their spirit gods, if its mortal body is slain, will return to the Fade to eventually reform and be restored to them. This is what happened with Hakkon. In fact we were told that by killing the dragon to which the Hakkonites had bound him, we were actually freeing the spirit to return to his natural domain.
All of the above seems to tie in rather well with what we know of Flemeth/Mythal. One thing that does stick out from Chantry belief is the idea that you only go to a peaceful rest if you deserve it and the wicked will be left endlessly wandering the Fade and this does seem a very ancient belief, since the section of the Chant where it is stated, describes the place of wandering not as the Fade but as the Beyond, a Dalish/elven term for the Fade. So it seems to hint at a case of most souls returning to the primordial Fade where they are recycled, with no memory of their identity in the previous life (like Solas' friend) but some individuals, either through the faith of their followers or their own strength of will, retain their identity and are either reborn or join with someone outside the Fade. May be the ultimate aim is to achieve a sort of Nirvana, where you are no longer caught up in the endless cycle but can actually transcend it in some way.
Also if you are "bound" in some way then you definitely cannot escape your destiny to continue to exist in that form. I think Solas is bound by some sort of oath or compulsion to remain in his current state and cannot return permanently to the Fade until his task is done.
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Post by Addictress on Apr 26, 2018 11:42:44 GMT
Well, I'm coming back into this thread after what seems like a year. I have an irl boyfriend now but I still peek at Solas pics every once in a while and feel the allure washing over me
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Post by Elessara on Apr 27, 2018 0:29:31 GMT
Well, I'm coming back into this thread after what seems like a year. I have an irl boyfriend now but I still peek at Solas pics every once in a while and feel the allure washing over me Welcome back! Wish we could give you some news about DA4 but ... got nuthin' really.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 27, 2018 3:31:11 GMT
Is a confirmed thing that is being worked on. So there's that.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 27, 2018 6:07:16 GMT
The only "news" I can think of is that when Bioware congratulated Sony Santa Monica for the launch of the new God of War game, they jokingly asked whether Kratos would be willing to "take care of an old elven god" for them. Any bets for who'd win that Death Battle?
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Post by Julilla on Apr 27, 2018 16:55:36 GMT
Since Solas seems to be able to turn someone to stone merely by looking at them, I'm betting on our BF.
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Post by Elessara on Apr 27, 2018 21:10:50 GMT
Since Solas seems to be able to turn someone to stone merely by looking at them, I'm betting on our BF. He didn't even have to look at the Viddasala. He turned her to stone with his back to her.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 27, 2018 22:26:29 GMT
Since Solas seems to be able to turn someone to stone merely by looking at them, I'm betting on our BF. He didn't even have to look at the Viddasala. He turned her to stone with his back to her. Poll: Vote if Solas's new amazing Medusa power works because a). of an amazing sheen of the back of his bald head b.) his shapely butt.
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Post by Elessara on Apr 27, 2018 23:03:09 GMT
He didn't even have to look at the Viddasala. He turned her to stone with his back to her. Poll: Vote if Solas's new amazing Medusa power works because a). of an amazing sheen of the back of his bald head b.) his shapely butt. Ooooh ... that's a tough one. I'll have to think about this.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Apr 28, 2018 2:55:19 GMT
He didn't even have to look at the Viddasala. He turned her to stone with his back to her. Poll: Vote if Solas's new amazing Medusa power works because a). of an amazing sheen of the back of his bald head b.) his shapely butt. Why not both?
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 28, 2018 3:29:00 GMT
He didn't even have to look at the Viddasala. He turned her to stone with his back to her. Poll: Vote if Solas's new amazing Medusa power works because a). of an amazing sheen of the back of his bald head b.) his shapely butt. Hmm, I can't quite tell where the Viddasala's eyes were looking... Its up in the air. :poker:
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Post by lilyenachaos on Apr 28, 2018 4:16:30 GMT
Poll: Vote if Solas's new amazing Medusa power works because a). of an amazing sheen of the back of his bald head b.) his shapely butt. Hmm, I can't quite tell where the Viddasala's eyes were looking... Its up in the air. I know where *my* eyes would have been. :dirty:
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 29, 2018 9:14:06 GMT
On a more serious note - there's a piece of Trespasser dialogue that's been bouncing in my head for some time now: namely the "I never thought of you as someone who would do that, Solas" and him subsequently thanking us for it.
Here's a question.... you think he'd actually do that, if he had an opportunity to continue his original plan? Because not only now we're wondering whether he's going to follow through with whatever he has planned in near future, that piece of dialogue is basically a different way of saying "Yeah dude... you just wouldn't do that".
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 29, 2018 17:53:08 GMT
On a more serious note - there's a piece of Trespasser dialogue that's been bouncing in my head for some time now: namely the "I never thought of you as someone who would do that, Solas" and him subsequently thanking us for it. Here's a question.... you think he'd actually do that, if he had an opportunity to continue his original plan? Because not only now we're wondering whether he's going to follow through with whatever he has planned in near future, that piece of dialogue is basically a different way of saying "Yeah dude... you just wouldn't do that". I think him thanking the Inquisitor for that is more Solas being thankful that the Inquisitor genuinely saw him as a good person. And yes I think Solas will still do it. It’s clear that his mission is more important than any one person despite how much it might pain him to sacrifice that person for that mission.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 29, 2018 18:25:13 GMT
On a more serious note - there's a piece of Trespasser dialogue that's been bouncing in my head for some time now: namely the "I never thought of you as someone who would do that, Solas" and him subsequently thanking us for it. Here's a question.... you think he'd actually do that, if he had an opportunity to continue his original plan? Because not only now we're wondering whether he's going to follow through with whatever he has planned in near future, that piece of dialogue is basically a different way of saying "Yeah dude... you just wouldn't do that". I think him thanking the Inquisitor for that is more Solas being thankful that the Inquisitor genuinely saw him as a good person. And yes I think Solas will still do it. It’s clear that his mission is more important than any one person despite how much it might pain him to sacrifice that person for that mission. Not to say that it can't be read both ways, but I think that the dialogue, coupled with its initial description ("Truly?"), makes it sound more like Inquisitor is questioning Solas's determination to do the awful thing (even before effectively softening him), rather than just establishing that they thought of him as a good person prior to revelations. It's also in tune with character's arc, which is basically a soul-splitting internal conflict about his own actions. His mission IS important, clearly, but I don't think it's more important than simply doing the right thing - which is why he goes out of his way to save Inquisitor or tell them that he'd be happy if it turned out that he's wrong. That's not to say that we don't know that Solas ain't capable of doing stuff of monumental consequences - one of reasons I think he's so set on being the one who does the awful thing (or why he's a legitimate threat in the first place) is because... well... he's already done it once. Still, we don't yet know the whole set of reasons that drive him now and how much they overlap with what he's done before.
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Post by wildenight on Apr 30, 2018 0:28:50 GMT
*de-lurks* It only took me 2 weeks to read through this lovely thread from page one to three-hundred and fifteen. Whew. Anyway, *waves* Hi. I'm a hopeless Solasmancer. I blame co-workers (and the Orign/Steam sale this past holiday) for the jump to team Elf. I was happy with my first playthrough as a Mage Trevelyn. And now, I'm stuck in Solavellen hell. Though, honestly most of Bioware's romances move me in one way or another. I have characters staged for an Iron Bull and Dorian run. But, the Dread Wolf has taken me to the point where I haven't even made time to update my SWTOR fan fiction in a few months. I have big apologies to offer my lovely readers once I can pull myself away from Thedas and back into a galaxy far, far away. So... when's DA 4 coming out? *stares impatiently at the Devs. Especially Domino because she and I go way back to EverQuest2 days* Because... you know... I'm also on Team Optimism. *waves flag proudly* hello welcome and now you must read the hundreds of pages in the old versions of this thread! see you in two months! AH! I've been seen by the near-mythical Thread Dad! *genuflects* Here, have a screenshot. I have lots of these to share, should we need more things to look at while we wait. (P.S. I'm pretty sure my Lavellen, Mythana, is being portrayed by a young Julie Andrews. And I'm totally okay with that. LOL. Also, I promise I named her before I ever finished a PT with any character. I just thought she should be named something more epic than Ellena.)
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 30, 2018 3:30:39 GMT
On a more serious note - there's a piece of Trespasser dialogue that's been bouncing in my head for some time now: namely the "I never thought of you as someone who would do that, Solas" and him subsequently thanking us for it. Here's a question.... you think he'd actually do that, if he had an opportunity to continue his original plan? Because not only now we're wondering whether he's going to follow through with whatever he has planned in near future, that piece of dialogue is basically a different way of saying "Yeah dude... you just wouldn't do that". I think a possible result of "finding a way to change the Dread Wolf's heart" is going to be Solas getting to the moment where he can enact his plan and... he just can't do it. Its entirely possible that we won't be able to stop him in an actual fight. He can turn people to stone, after all. I think in the end that the only way Solas is gonna stop is if his conscience gets the better of him and he finds he just can't go through with it. (Either that or we ally with someone/absorb power equal to his and then manage to kill him.)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 30, 2018 5:02:30 GMT
I have to admit, rewatching Infinity War and Thanos reminded me of Solas a bit(can't really get into details without spoilers) and made me respect Solas' position more than I did before watching. Hopefully DA4 is able to capture what they did with Thanos for Solas to create a similar feeling.
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 30, 2018 15:08:25 GMT
I have to admit, rewatching Infinity War and Thanos reminded me of Solas a bit(can't really get into details without spoilers) and made me respect Solas' position more than I did before watching. Hopefully DA4 is able to capture what they did with Thanos for Solas to create a similar feeling. If nothing else, maybe they'll have some Easter Eggs:
-Fade scenes where he sits on a floating chair and/or throws a moon at us.
-Solas tearfully sacrificing a loved one.
-We almost stop him in the penultimate battle, but an enraged Companion screws everything up .
-Solas actually succeeding in tearing down the Veil, at least initially.
-Codex entries referring to his greatest foe that never actually shows up .
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 30, 2018 16:02:18 GMT
On a more serious note - there's a piece of Trespasser dialogue that's been bouncing in my head for some time now: namely the "I never thought of you as someone who would do that, Solas" and him subsequently thanking us for it. Here's a question.... you think he'd actually do that, if he had an opportunity to continue his original plan? Because not only now we're wondering whether he's going to follow through with whatever he has planned in near future, that piece of dialogue is basically a different way of saying "Yeah dude... you just wouldn't do that". I think a possible result of "finding a way to change the Dread Wolf's heart" is going to be Solas getting to the moment where he can enact his plan and... he just can't do it. Its entirely possible that we won't be able to stop him in an actual fight. He can turn people to stone, after all. I think in the end that the only way Solas is gonna stop is if his conscience gets the better of him and he finds he just can't go through with it. (Either that or we ally with someone/absorb power equal to his and then manage to kill him.) Well... we only get text about "changing Dread Wolf's heart" when we romance him. And 'his heart' is Lavellan then Either way - it could be that he just can't do it. Or it could be that we ally with someone/gain power to face him... Or both? Or it could be that he'd follow through, feeling that he's obligated to make an effort to the very end, but at that point he sabotaged his plan enough that he can be stopped. Or a different combination of all these things and more. Either way, the question of whether he'd continue with his original plan is now only hypothetical, both for us and Solas. I guess it's going to be answered in part on a route where we don't influence him much... or the influence is negative?
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Post by Jisandra on Apr 30, 2018 18:10:16 GMT
I have to admit, rewatching Infinity War and Thanos reminded me of Solas a bit(can't really get into details without spoilers) and made me respect Solas' position more than I did before watching. Hopefully DA4 is able to capture what they did with Thanos for Solas to create a similar feeling. THIS I really hope that PW won't see this movie. There were too many scenes with delicious angst to inspire him.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 30, 2018 21:31:49 GMT
I have to admit, rewatching Infinity War and Thanos reminded me of Solas a bit(can't really get into details without spoilers) and made me respect Solas' position more than I did before watching. Hopefully DA4 is able to capture what they did with Thanos for Solas to create a similar feeling. I saw the parallels as well. Though I maintain Thanos' motive is stupid and there are way more alternative ways to solve the problem he's "fixing" than are readily available to solve Solas' problem. But I do see the parallels of someone who feels burdened with great purpose, etc. Solas better not throw Cole or my Inquisitor off a cliff, though, or I'll be pissed. I don't care how hard he cries.
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