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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 17:54:25 GMT
on my feed jn - bwahaha from edude-makes-comics on tumblr You know, I've always wondered about his comments on Qunari to an Adaar Inquisitor. They directly contradict what he says to Bull in banter, and I've always wondered... like, what does Solas actually believe about it? To Bull, he seems to think there's nothing different about Qunari as a race, but the social system of the Qun drives them to extremes. And then to Adaar, he seems to have the... interesting opinion that Qunari are just naturally prone to violence.
I guess they're not necessarily mutually exclusive, and Solas was just startingly tone-deaf and spectacularly poor at expressing his opinion to Addar. Or, of course he could just be racist against Qunari, on top of his general prejudice against modern people, but the Bull banter would seem to dispute that. Hmph.
I think that he was being painfully honest, because he was at a personal crossroads.
I mean, he is generally polite, but if he doesn't think of the people of Thedas as people, subtle insults or provocation mean nothing. Here he's testing the waters, trying to convince himself that this person can't possibly be real, that maybe his own magic is interfering with his perceptions. He has nothing to lose by being honest if they aren't real. If you don't know he's Fen'Harel, he simply comes off as an elf who has faced horrible bigotry his entire life just for being an elf, and having to isolate himself from society for being a hated, self-taught apostate hedge-mage. From that perspective, his observations if not kind or tactful, are more comprehensible - this is what the world taught me to expect, but this is what I've actually learned...fuck. You don't know until later that he's been a literal god the whole time, looking down, evaluating the masses as a mindless, faceless, necessary sacrifice.
His conclusion with a befriended Inquisitor, though, is that unfortunately he's right, they are all real, and the stakes have completely changed - but for whatever reason (probably to do with the superblight that is on the horizon if he fails to act), they can't. Yet. Something has to have changed, or we wouldn't have two choices with him, or all the different art. A befriended/beloved Inquisitor set him on a different path, which has yet to reach its end.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 16, 2018 20:28:51 GMT
Regarding Solas' idea that all Qunari are violent, it's also possible that they were a race of dragon-hybrids (with elves?) who were bred to be soldiers in the Evanuris' war. So he might characterize them as a violent race because of that. There's very little to support this idea except that it is implied in Until We Sleep that they carry dragon blood, and OGB Kieran says something about Qunari blood not being their blood, if you play a Qunari Inquisitor.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 16, 2018 20:52:00 GMT
Regarding Solas' idea that all Qunari are violent, it's also possible that they were a race of dragon-hybrids (with elves?) who were bred to be soldiers in the Evanuris' war. So he might characterize them as a violent race because of that. There's very little to support this idea except that it is implied in Until We Sleep that they carry dragon blood, and OGB Kieran says something about Qunari blood not being their blood, if you play a Qunari Inquisitor. So, basically, the Qunari would be viewed as aggressive because of their connection with dragons or dragon blood? I mean, we know that dragons ARE aggressive, and Solas characterizes them as 'undiluted power'. We also know that many dragon-hunting Pethagasts could become aggressive after too much contact with dragon's blood. So do reavers. Cassandra warns about that. Still, I am of a mind that Solas mostly talks about how most Qunari believe themselves to be, and believe so predominantly due to the influence of their culture on both devoted Qunari and Tal-Vashoth alike - just like with mages or blood mages Solas characterizes their 'savagery' as fault of having that savagery instilled in them by teachings of the Qun, and them not knowing anything besides that when they try and get away from it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 16, 2018 20:55:02 GMT
Plus the Qunari still talk about the Kossith as if they know who or what they are, so they would react if they were elves after seeing elves here.
Like I said with an Andraste discussion, I really hope they don’t make everything “because ancient elves”.
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Post by Elessara on Dec 16, 2018 22:04:30 GMT
Regarding Solas' idea that all Qunari are violent, it's also possible that they were a race of dragon-hybrids (with elves?) who were bred to be soldiers in the Evanuris' war. So he might characterize them as a violent race because of that. There's very little to support this idea except that it is implied in Until We Sleep that they carry dragon blood, and OGB Kieran says something about Qunari blood not being their blood, if you play a Qunari Inquisitor. To support the theory that Qunari/Kossith are related to dragons: 1. Iron Bull really likes the way you smell if your character takes the reaver specialisation 2. The following conversation between Cole and Iron Bull: Cole: I like your horns, The Iron Bull. Cole: But they're dragon horns, not bull horns. You could have named yourself The Iron Dragon. Iron Bull: Oh, shit. That would have been better.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 17, 2018 0:43:44 GMT
Plus the Qunari still talk about the Kossith as if they know who or what they are, so they would react if they were elves after seeing elves here. Like I said with an Andraste discussion, I really hope they don’t make everything “because ancient elves”. That's fair, but if elves (and dwarves, I think) were the original sentient beings on the planet, it is likely that a lot of the prehistorical shenanigans that went on had to come from either of those two races. At the moment, with Ghilan'nain basically confirmed as a mad scientist type who liked making new kinds of animals, etc. it seems more likely that if the Qunari are some weird dragon hybrid race, she might have had something to do with it rather than the dwarves.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2018 0:45:49 GMT
Plus the Qunari still talk about the Kossith as if they know who or what they are, so they would react if they were elves after seeing elves here. Like I said with an Andraste discussion, I really hope they don’t make everything “because ancient elves”. That's fair, but if elves (and dwarves, I think) were the original sentient beings on the planet, it is likely that a lot of the prehistorical shenanigans that went on had to come from either of those two races. At the moment, with Ghilan'nain basically confirmed as a mad scientist type who liked making new kinds of animals, etc. it seems more likely that if the Qunari are some weird dragon hybrid race, she might have had something to do with it rather than the dwarves. There is nothing to suggest that elves and dwarves were the original sentient beings on the planet. We only know that they were the first on the continent of Thedas while humans and qunari came from other continents.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 17, 2018 0:49:00 GMT
That's fair, but if elves (and dwarves, I think) were the original sentient beings on the planet, it is likely that a lot of the prehistorical shenanigans that went on had to come from either of those two races. At the moment, with Ghilan'nain basically confirmed as a mad scientist type who liked making new kinds of animals, etc. it seems more likely that if the Qunari are some weird dragon hybrid race, she might have had something to do with it rather than the dwarves. There is nothing to suggest that elves and dwarves were the original sentient beings on the planet. We only know that they were the first on the continent of Thedas while humans and qunari came from other continents. There is - elves (not sure about dwarves) have been there for millennia before anyone else (also - whatever happened to Elvenhan has ultimately decided the shape of current Thedas). Also, elves and dwarves are clearly are connected to big and magical things that are probably even more ancient and predate everything else.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 17, 2018 1:26:58 GMT
The main text of The World of Thedas Vol. 1 (p. 12) clearly states that the "Dalish keepers and the dwarven Shaperate speak of a Thedas entirely devoid of humans, a time when elves reigned on the land and dwarves rule the underground."
The World of Thedas Vol. 1 timeline states simply:
"-3100 Ancient: Records claim humanity arrives in Thedas around this date. This is disputed by scholars, who ask where humanity came from and why they left."
So even human scholars doubt that humans came from somewhere else.
The Chantry's own cosmology states that humans didn't exist before the Veil was made, and that humans were the Maker's second attempt at making sentient beings. The first were the spirits. And since there is quite a bit of in-game lore now to support the idea that elves are very closely related to spirits, and also that Solas made the Veil, not the Maker, it strongly suggests that humans were not one of the original sentient races.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 17, 2018 1:35:38 GMT
Plus the Qunari still talk about the Kossith as if they know who or what they are, so they would react if they were elves after seeing elves here. Like I said with an Andraste discussion, I really hope they don’t make everything “because ancient elves”. That's fair, but if elves (and dwarves, I think) were the original sentient beings on the planet, it is likely that a lot of the prehistorical shenanigans that went on had to come from either of those two races. At the moment, with Ghilan'nain basically confirmed as a mad scientist type who liked making new kinds of animals, etc. it seems more likely that if the Qunari are some weird dragon hybrid race, she might have had something to do with it rather than the dwarves. If they weren't the first they were probably a lot closer than the other ones.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 17, 2018 2:07:51 GMT
I don't see any reason to believe the elves were the first sentients on the entire planet, as a whole. I mean, I suppose someone was first, but it could just have easily have been dwarves (more likely actually since they seem to stem from actual bits of planet, which theoretically would have come before anything else) or humans on some other continent outside of Thedosian view.
On a planetary scale, Titans likely predate everyone, though for all we know they in themselves are some kind of physical/spirit hybrid, and thus spirits are the real first people of Thedas. And I make a distinction btwn spirits and elves b/c not all spirits became elves, assuming that's where elves come from in the first place.
Elves were the first great (above ground) civilization on the continent of Thedas. That's all we can say about them in relation to the other races right now.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2018 2:52:53 GMT
Personally as I said I would like humans and qunari to have a past that doesn’t originate with ancient elves and instead will be new mysteries to explore after we finish up with the elves and dwarves. After all it is being teased that either we’ll go to the other continents or they will come to us.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 17, 2018 3:08:17 GMT
Personally as I said I would like humans and qunari to have a past that doesn’t originate with ancient elves and instead will be new mysteries to explore after we finish up with the elves and dwarves. After all it is being teased that either we’ll go to the other continents or they will come to us. Yea, but I think the suggestion is that it's all possibly tied to one giant mystery/potentially origin of life itself? Also - nobody said that the whole world is filled just with elves, dwarves, humans and qunari.... I can think of a multitude of classic fantasy races not yet used in the setting, and that's without taking into account what Bioware folks can come up with themselves.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2018 3:15:32 GMT
Personally as I said I would like humans and qunari to have a past that doesn’t originate with ancient elves and instead will be new mysteries to explore after we finish up with the elves and dwarves. After all it is being teased that either we’ll go to the other continents or they will come to us. Yea, but I think the suggestion is that it's all possibly tied to one giant mystery/potentially origin of life itself? Also - nobody said that the whole world is filled just with elves, dwarves, humans and qunari.... I can think of a multitude of classic fantasy races not yet used in the setting, and that's without taking into account what Bioware folks can come up with themselves. I don't think they'll answer that far back, since remember they said they will never have it so the Maker is confirmed or denied. And yeah that's true. I just hope one of the races has an ethnicity similar to ethnicities not in the franchise yet, for example Asian.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 17, 2018 3:25:35 GMT
Yea, but I think the suggestion is that it's all possibly tied to one giant mystery/potentially origin of life itself? Also - nobody said that the whole world is filled just with elves, dwarves, humans and qunari.... I can think of a multitude of classic fantasy races not yet used in the setting, and that's without taking into account what Bioware folks can come up with themselves. I don't think they'll answer that far back, since remember they said they will never have it so the Maker is confirmed or denied. And yeah that's true. I just hope one of the races has an ethnicity similar to ethnicities not in the franchise yet, for example Asian. The same argument could be made about the origin of the Veil, considering how intrinsic it is to myths about the Maker and his creation. Yet, they've done away with it and story suggests we'll get more discoveries that will fly squarely in the face of Chantry beliefs. In other words - I don't think that the discovery of origins of life is something that would threaten the belief in the Maker, in the same way discoveries of science in ours didn't obliterate the belief in the existence of higher power - at best, they made those beliefs evolve. Anyway, we do know that there are some populations living outside of Thedas already, like the Voshai or Parladians. Also... since some people are thirsty for Jade Empire 2 and a bulk of Jade Empire devs are working on Dragon Age... maybe we'd get something like Jade Empire 2 within Dragon Age universe?
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 17, 2018 3:38:27 GMT
I don't think they'll answer that far back, since remember they said they will never have it so the Maker is confirmed or denied. And yeah that's true. I just hope one of the races has an ethnicity similar to ethnicities not in the franchise yet, for example Asian. The same argument could be made about the origin of the Veil, considering how intrinsic it is to myths about the Maker and his creation. Yet, they've done away with it and story suggests we'll get more discoveries that will fly squarely in the face of Chantry beliefs. In other words - I don't think that the discovery of origins of life is something that would threaten the belief in the Maker, in the same way discoveries of science in ours didn't obliterate the belief in the existence of higher power - at best, they made those beliefs evolve. Anyway, we do know that there are some populations living outside of Thedas already, like the Voshai or Parladians. Also... since some people are thirsty for Jade Empire 2 and a bulk of Jade Empire devs are working on Dragon Age... maybe we'd get something like Jade Empire 2 within Dragon Age universe? Funny thing about this is that I played Jade Empire for the first time only a couple of years ago, and I found that with respect to philosophies and the characters' view of their world, there were a lot of similarities with Dragon Age in it. Of course this is probably because a large number of the same people worked on both games. But I think it would be fun if the Jade Empire was on the same planet as Thedas.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 17, 2018 3:46:10 GMT
The same argument could be made about the origin of the Veil, considering how intrinsic it is to myths about the Maker and his creation. Yet, they've done away with it and story suggests we'll get more discoveries that will fly squarely in the face of Chantry beliefs. In other words - I don't think that the discovery of origins of life is something that would threaten the belief in the Maker, in the same way discoveries of science in ours didn't obliterate the belief in the existence of higher power - at best, they made those beliefs evolve. Anyway, we do know that there are some populations living outside of Thedas already, like the Voshai or Parladians. Also... since some people are thirsty for Jade Empire 2 and a bulk of Jade Empire devs are working on Dragon Age... maybe we'd get something like Jade Empire 2 within Dragon Age universe? Funny thing about this is that I played Jade Empire for the first time only a couple of years ago, and I found that with respect to philosophies and the characters' view of their world, there were a lot of similarities with Dragon Age in it. Of course this is probably because a large number of the same people worked on both games. But I think it would be fun if the Jade Empire was on the same planet as Thedas. Yea, it'd be both fun and funny... I heard people theorizing or wanting for Thedas to be in the same universe as Mass Effect it... but - SURPRISE! - it's actually in the same universe as Jade Empire!
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Post by Sifr on Dec 17, 2018 12:11:58 GMT
What if Humans and the Kossith originally came from other "worlds", planes that existed separate from that of the Ancient Elves and Dwarves (much like the Crossroads and Vir Dirthara exist separate from the Fade), which were accidentally merged together when Solas created the Veil?
This would keep the origins of Humanity and the Kossith as being completely independent of the Ancient Elves, as well as explain how both Elves and Dwarves speak of humanity as showing up one day as if from nowhere?
Perhaps the only reason that the Kossith didn't show up as quickly as humans did is that humans lucked out by arriving close to the Elves and Dwarves, whereas the Kossith found themselves deposited on other side of the planet far from everyone else?
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 17, 2018 19:12:17 GMT
What if Humans and the Kossith originally came from other "worlds", planes that existed separate from that of the Ancient Elves and Dwarves (much like the Crossroads and Vir Dirthara exist separate from the Fade), which were accidentally merged together when Solas created the Veil? This would keep the origins of Humanity and the Kossith as being completely independent of the Ancient Elves, as well as explain how both Elves and Dwarves speak of humanity as showing up one day as if from nowhere? Perhaps the only reason that the Kossith didn't show up as quickly as humans did is that humans lucked out by arriving close to the Elves and Dwarves, whereas the Kossith found themselves deposited on other side of the planet far from everyone else? Isn't there some ancient Tevinter lore we got via one of the astrariums about a boat that traveled stars? I mean... it doesn't *have* to mean spaceship, but its still interesting.
(*puts on tin foil hat and goes off to find that one "ALIENS" meme*)
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 18, 2018 13:36:23 GMT
What if Humans and the Kossith originally came from other "worlds", planes that existed separate from that of the Ancient Elves and Dwarves (much like the Crossroads and Vir Dirthara exist separate from the Fade), which were accidentally merged together when Solas created the Veil? This would keep the origins of Humanity and the Kossith as being completely independent of the Ancient Elves, as well as explain how both Elves and Dwarves speak of humanity as showing up one day as if from nowhere? Perhaps the only reason that the Kossith didn't show up as quickly as humans did is that humans lucked out by arriving close to the Elves and Dwarves, whereas the Kossith found themselves deposited on other side of the planet far from everyone else? Isn't there some ancient Tevinter lore we got via one of the astrariums about a boat that traveled stars? I mean... it doesn't *have* to mean spaceship, but its still interesting.
(*puts on tin foil hat and goes off to find that one "ALIENS" meme*)
I don't recall such astrarium, do you know which one is it? I mean, you laugh... but one of my first, admittedly short-lived and not very serious theories was that elves are aliens that came on Thedas on ancient spaceships It doesn't help that Solas looks a bit like one.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 18, 2018 14:19:59 GMT
The only constellation that is a boat is Peraquialus. There's no mention of it sailing through the stars.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 18, 2018 16:45:56 GMT
Peraquialus was what I was thinking of, I believe. Maybe I just remembered it involved stars cus it was an astrarium. lol Nevermind then.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 18, 2018 19:06:47 GMT
Peraquialus was what I was thinking of, I believe. Maybe I just remembered it involved stars cus it was an astrarium. lol Nevermind then. Peraquialus apparently means 'across the sea' in anicent Tevene. I wonder if it has anything to do with 'powers across the sea' that Executors claim to work for... (for whatever reason I really want Executors to be involved in the plot somewhere in DA4 and for them to not be something stupid, lol. I'm inexplicably fascinated by them)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 18, 2018 19:12:57 GMT
Peraquialus was what I was thinking of, I believe. Maybe I just remembered it involved stars cus it was an astrarium. lol Nevermind then. Peraquialus apparently means 'across the sea' in anicent Tevene. I wonder if it has anything to do with 'powers across the sea' that Executors claim to work for... (for whatever reason I really want Executors to be involved in the plot somewhere in DA4 and for them to not be something stupid, lol. I'm inexplicably fascinated by them) I have a feeling they will more likely be explored in DA5, with maybe more teases in DA4.
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