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Post by midnight tea on Mar 18, 2019 17:26:49 GMT
I'm far from that point in the game, but I've been thinking about the keep/disband Inquisition choice. Disbanding is smarter, because it prevents spying and corruption. But... the main game epilogue says that Briala's rule through Gaspard depends on her alliance with the Inquisition, so disbanding might destroy any progress she makes on behalf of the elves. Both choices have pros and cons. Disbanding reduces the chance of infiltration, but keeping it gives you more influence and resources. Personally I choose to keep it as a front while the secret Inquisition operates since having more allies and connections seems the better option. After all disbanding it only reduces the chance of infiltration, not eliminate it. I am super-curious what results both options are going to give (I have Inquisition in different state across different world-states). Clearly, when they were making Trespasser the intention was there for it to matter to some extent - it will be interesting to see whether or how the plans may have changed over the years of development.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 18, 2019 17:46:42 GMT
What about Briala? Won't her efforts crumble without the Inquisition's support? My Inquisiton still exists and I think that’s the better option I said. Yeah, I know you said that. I just want the main point of my question to be addressed. Briala, Inquisition disbanded.
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Post by Elessara on Mar 18, 2019 22:16:57 GMT
My Inquisiton still exists and I think that’s the better option I said. Yeah, I know you said that. I just want the main point of my question to be addressed. Briala, Inquisition disbanded. I would say it's quite possible that without the Inquisition then Briala's efforts will be weakened or nullified. However, that particular endslide that talked about Briala was from the main game, yes? At the end of Trespasser, even if the Inquisition still exists it is in a very much weakened form. After Trespasser even if the Inquisition continues it is now a much smaller peace keeping force and subject to the Divine. It no longer has the same influence as before; the Inquisitor is no longer on the same political level as the ruler of a nation. I would say that regardless of whether or not you disband the Inquisition then Briala's hold over Gaspard, as heavily dependent on the Inquisition pre-Trespasser as it was, is still greatly weakened. Not that this will affect my main playthrough. I got rid of Gaspard.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 19, 2019 0:50:06 GMT
I'd add that the Divine you ended up with might mitigate the effect a bit. I could see Leliana being agreeable to socially enforcing what gains elves make with Briala behind Gespard in Orlais. (Or with Briala as a count(?) in the "gets back with Celene" ending, if necessary.) Briala could find an ally in the Divine who both used to play the game and is set on radical and quick social change within the church and society at large. She could also get aid from Cassandra or Vivienne, I'd think, if she approaches them right. And depending on what it will require of them, of course.
Heck, Briala might even be an asset to the shadow Inquisition. Not as an agent (probably?), but as an information source, cus she could at the least recount her time with and knowledge of Felessan. And tell them about the Eluvian network having a control room. And she could possibly leverage that information for the above mentioned support from the Divine. Or something. Girl is crafty and she has options, I think.
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Post by Elessara on Mar 24, 2019 3:29:03 GMT
I'd add that the Divine you ended up with might mitigate the effect a bit. I could see Leliana being agreeable to socially enforcing what gains elves make with Briala behind Gespard in Orlais. (Or with Briala as a count(?) in the "gets back with Celene" ending, if necessary.) Briala could find an ally in the Divine who both used to play the game and is set on radical and quick social change within the church and society at large. She could also get aid from Cassandra or Vivienne, I'd think, if she approaches them right. And depending on what it will require of them, of course.
Heck, Briala might even be an asset to the shadow Inquisition. Not as an agent (probably?), but as an information source, cus she could at the least recount her time with and knowledge of Felessan. And tell them about the Eluvian network having a control room. And she could possibly leverage that information for the above mentioned support from the Divine. Or something. Girl is crafty and she has options, I think.
You're right really. Regardless of how the Inquisition ends, Briala still has options and she's intelligent and resourceful. I really hope she's able to affect meaningful change for the elves in Orlais; such a thing could also act as a basis for change in other countries. Although, if we're going to a different country entirely we would likely only hear about it second hand from NPCs or through codex entries.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 24, 2019 7:51:54 GMT
Anansi got much swag than Solas! Seriously, I personally believed that Solas is based on Anansi, a trickster god (except that he was described as a spider, instead of a wolf) of West African folklore, and also the teller of stories which Solas tells stories to the protagonist of Elven culture. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anansi
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Mar 24, 2019 14:14:07 GMT
Pretty much every culture has trickster gods, so I think it's hard to say Solas is based on a particular one. I've seen some people on the BSN associate him with Prometheus, others with Loki (not the MCU Loki; the original one). Common traits shared by trickster gods around the world include: - Helping their people
- Helping the underdog
- Shaming those in power
- Sometimes things go off without a hitch
- Sometimes their tricks end in catastrophic failure
- Usually it all works out well in the end, though often in an unexpected way
- Often their actions bring about great changes
Basically what Solas has in common with Anansi, Prometheus, and Loki is that they are all tricksters. Here are 42 trickster gods from around the world: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Trickster_gods
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Post by Elessara on Mar 24, 2019 15:34:25 GMT
Pretty much every culture has trickster gods, so I think it's hard to say Solas is based on a particular one. I've seen some people on the BSN associate him with Prometheus, others with Loki (not the MCU Loki; the original one). Common traits shared by trickster gods around the world include: - Helping their people
- Helping the underdog
- Shaming those in power
- Sometimes things go off without a hitch
- Sometimes their tricks end in catastrophic failure
- Usually it all works out well in the end, though often in an unexpected way
- Often their actions bring about great changes
Basically what Solas has in common with Anansi, Prometheus, and Loki is that they are all tricksters. Here are 42 trickster gods from around the world: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Trickster_godsReading that I can't help but think that Solas and Sera have more in common than either of them would care to acknowledge.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 24, 2019 16:03:08 GMT
Reading that I can't help but think that Solas and Sera have more in common than either of them would care to acknowledge. Oh, I think this is specifically why he had the relationship with/approach towards Sera he has
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 24, 2019 16:44:10 GMT
Heck, Briala might even be an asset to the shadow Inquisition. Not as an agent (probably?), but as an information source, cus she could at the least recount her time with and knowledge of Felessan. And tell them about the Eluvian network having a control room. And she could possibly leverage that information for the above mentioned support from the Divine. Or something. Girl is crafty and she has options, I think. The thing is if you recruit Michel de Chevin then you can get most of this information from him. He would also be able to fill in the fact that Briala was using the eluvian network so that is how she appeared to be able to be in two places at once. The only information he was lacking was the master password and since this wasn't absolutely necessary to access the network, as proven by both Morrigan and the Qun, and in any case Solas stepped in and took back control, she really hasn't got much of a bargaining chip. I suspect that we shall find that any gains made by Briala with the Inquisitor's help will be reversed down the line. They hinted in the epilogue that whatever situation we had set up, the person in control of Orlais only did so on sufferance because of the backing of the Inquisition. With that cut down to size or disbanded altogether, things would pretty much revert to the status quo before we intervened. The same is true of our choice of Divine. Leliana appears to make fundamental changes to the system but they may only last as long as she does and so far as the situation with mages is concerned every epilogue in Trespasser has Grand Enchanter/Divine Vivienne in the driving seat and the College of Enchanters in fear of her power, which makes sense considering she has the backing of the nobility in Orlais at least and possibly elsewhere.
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Post by Elessara on Mar 24, 2019 17:06:39 GMT
Heck, Briala might even be an asset to the shadow Inquisition. Not as an agent (probably?), but as an information source, cus she could at the least recount her time with and knowledge of Felessan. And tell them about the Eluvian network having a control room. And she could possibly leverage that information for the above mentioned support from the Divine. Or something. Girl is crafty and she has options, I think. The thing is if you recruit Michel de Chevin then you can get most of this information from him. He would also be able to fill in the fact that Briala was using the eluvian network so that is how she appeared to be able to be in two places at once. The only information he was lacking was the master password and since this wasn't absolutely necessary to access the network, as proven by both Morrigan and the Qun, and in any case Solas stepped in and took back control, she really hasn't got much of a bargaining chip. I suspect that we shall find that any gains made by Briala with the Inquisitor's help will be reversed down the line. They hinted in the epilogue that whatever situation we had set up, the person in control of Orlais only did so on sufferance because of the backing of the Inquisition. With that cut down to size or disbanded altogether, things would pretty much revert to the status quo before we intervened. The same is true of our choice of Divine. Leliana appears to make fundamental changes to the system but they may only last as long as she does and so far as the situation with mages is concerned every epilogue in Trespasser has Grand Enchanter/Divine Vivienne in the driving seat and the College of Enchanters in fear of her power, which makes sense considering she has the backing of the nobility in Orlais at least and possibly elsewhere. The information from Michel seems to not only be conditional on if you recruit him but also how you choose to deploy him. You have three options for Michel and only one of them mentions him giving information about the eluvians. I know it seems silly that you only get the information if you assign him to Leliana but if you do go that route then Leliana mentions she'll have him talk to Solas and the other scholars about the eluvians so any information you might get from Michel on that subject could be ... suspect. Also, I think the eluvians themselves are currently inaccessible as Solas has control of the network - the remaining network that is. Although if you take Dorian to the Darvaarad he'll mention the possibility of creating new eluvians so maybe it'll be possible to create a second network unconnected to the first? In my main game epilogue there were basically two mage factions: one led by Grand Enchanter Fiona and the other controlled by Vivienne. The one led by Fiona was larger (more mages tended to join her) though the one controlled by Vivienne tended to wield more political power (because of her connections). But it really all depends on who is Divine and if the mages are conscripted. I'll add that ... at least for DAO ... any major societal changes you attempt (Dalish, mages, etc.) seem to be reversed rather rapidly. However, the end of DA2 saw the Mage/Templar rebellion and I can't see them turning around on that one so who knows what we'll see going forward.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 25, 2019 13:48:13 GMT
I'll add that ... at least for DAO ... any major societal changes you attempt (Dalish, mages, etc.) seem to be reversed rather rapidly. However, the end of DA2 saw the Mage/Templar rebellion and I can't see them turning around on that one so who knows what we'll see going forward. I'm not very confident, honestly. The only interesting thing about city elves and casteless dwarves is the fact that they're oppressed. It's their shtick. So I find it hard to imagine the writers daring to take that away.
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Post by Elessara on Mar 25, 2019 21:11:15 GMT
I'll add that ... at least for DAO ... any major societal changes you attempt (Dalish, mages, etc.) seem to be reversed rather rapidly. However, the end of DA2 saw the Mage/Templar rebellion and I can't see them turning around on that one so who knows what we'll see going forward. I'm not very confident, honestly. The only interesting thing about city elves and casteless dwarves is the fact that they're oppressed. It's their shtick. So I find it hard to imagine the writers daring to take that away. That's a rather large over-generalisation. One could have said the same about mages ... oh they were oppressed that was their shtick. Tevinter mages use blood magic ... that's their shtick. Templars use lyrium ... that's their shtick. The Dalish wander around ... that's their shtick. Nothing interesting about any of those groups except for that one thing, right? Well no that's not right. I also think the reason why changes were rapidly reversed in DAO was because the entire arc of the series is moving towards a massive societal upheaval and they didn't want to change major things with just a quiet, "Oh they got a boon so they're all good now." I mean you can't just have King Alistair/Queen Anora say, "Mages are now free! Yay!" and just leave it at that - certainly not with the way mages were viewed by Andrastian society as a whole. It had to be something larger than that and the Mage/Templar war was likely just the first cracks in the foundation we see.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 25, 2019 21:18:39 GMT
In my main game epilogue there were basically two mage factions: one led by Grand Enchanter Fiona and the other controlled by Vivienne. The one led by Fiona was larger (more mages tended to join her) though the one controlled by Vivienne tended to wield more political power (because of her connections). But it really all depends on who is Divine and if the mages are conscripted. The situation I am talking about is the one at the end of Trespasser. If Vivienne is Divine then she grudgingly allows the College of Enchanters to exist because it is made up out of those mages who were formerly with the Inquisition out of respect for that organisation but that suggests that any new young mages are going to be encouraged to join the Circle under her leadership. If Cassandra is Divine the College of allied mages immediately find themselves at odds with Grand Enchanter Vivienne of the reformed Circle system and their leaders are only spared by her as a personal favour to the Divine. By contrast the Bright Hand are originally part of the Circle but eventually break-away and form their own independent College. There is also a separate College if you sided with the Templars but formed from veterans of the Inquisition. In the latter case their numbers are hardly going to be large considering most of the rebels died in the fighting at Haven. Even with Leliana as Divine Vivienne is the one who is controlling the situation. Leliana dissolved the old Circle system, so Vivienne sets up a new one, which at least answers the question of how things are going to be organised for the training of mages in the future. There is a rival College of Enchanters but once again this seems to be predominantly made up of mages who were with the Inquisition.. So whilst there are always the two factions still in existence, even if you sided with the Templars in the main game, Vivienne is the one with the political connections and I would imagine the financial backing as well. The only liberal minded monarch when it came to the mages cause, that of Ferelden, was rewarded by being stabbed in the back when the going got tough, so is unlikely to be sympathetic to the College in the future, whilst other rulers would see what happened with Ferelden and likely prefer to stick with what they know, the Circle under Chantry loyalists, rather than risk supporting the College. Thus, over time the Circle system is likely to be the one that endures.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 25, 2019 21:31:50 GMT
I'm not very confident, honestly. The only interesting thing about city elves and casteless dwarves is the fact that they're oppressed. It's their shtick. So I find it hard to imagine the writers daring to take that away. That's a rather large over-generalisation. One could have said the same about mages ... oh they were oppressed that was their shtick. Tevinter mages use blood magic ... that's their shtick. Templars use lyrium ... that's their shtick. The Dalish wander around ... that's their shtick. Nothing interesting about any of those groups except for that one thing, right? Well no that's not right. I also think the reason why changes were rapidly reversed in DAO was because the entire arc of the series is moving towards a massive societal upheaval and they didn't want to change major things with just a quiet, "Oh they got a boon so they're all good now." I mean you can't just have King Alistair/Queen Anora say, "Mages are now free! Yay!" and just leave it at that - certainly not with the way mages were viewed by Andrastian society as a whole. It had to be something larger than that and the Mage/Templar war was likely just the first cracks in the foundation we see. Nah. Mages have... well, magic. That will always be interesting and have potential for crazy shit. And the Dalish have their goal of preserving elven culture. City elves and casteless dwarves are just too normal. Not that different from human citizens or thugs. What really stands out about them is the oppressed status.
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Post by Elessara on Mar 25, 2019 22:49:55 GMT
That's a rather large over-generalisation. One could have said the same about mages ... oh they were oppressed that was their shtick. Tevinter mages use blood magic ... that's their shtick. Templars use lyrium ... that's their shtick. The Dalish wander around ... that's their shtick. Nothing interesting about any of those groups except for that one thing, right? Well no that's not right. I also think the reason why changes were rapidly reversed in DAO was because the entire arc of the series is moving towards a massive societal upheaval and they didn't want to change major things with just a quiet, "Oh they got a boon so they're all good now." I mean you can't just have King Alistair/Queen Anora say, "Mages are now free! Yay!" and just leave it at that - certainly not with the way mages were viewed by Andrastian society as a whole. It had to be something larger than that and the Mage/Templar war was likely just the first cracks in the foundation we see. Nah. Mages have... well, magic. That will always be interesting and have potential for crazy shit. And the Dalish have their goal of preserving elven culture. City elves and casteless dwarves are just too normal. Not that different from human citizens or thugs. What really stands out about them is the oppressed status. City elves are still elves with all of the possibilities that entails. You know, being possibly descended from spirits, having a greater connection to the Fade, etc. Casteless dwarves are still dwarves with all of the possibilities that entails. Children of the Titans and all that. Unless you want to make the argument that city elves are not "real"elves and casteless dwarves aren't "real' dwarves.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 25, 2019 23:16:19 GMT
Nah. Mages have... well, magic. That will always be interesting and have potential for crazy shit. Don't elves have magic too? Like, inherent magic that seems very relevant to future plot?
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Mar 25, 2019 23:39:19 GMT
Nah. Mages have... well, magic. That will always be interesting and have potential for crazy shit. Don't elves have magic too? Like, inherent magic that seems very relevant to future plot? Only sort of? It's said they have more magic in their blood than the other races do. That's one of the reasons why blood mages like sacrificing elves. They get a bit more bang for their buck. And Cole possibly corroborates this with his comment that a Lavellan has blood that isn't blood. But elf rogues and warriors don't have any magical abilities that rogues and warriors of other races don't get.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 25, 2019 23:51:05 GMT
Don't elves have magic too? Like, inherent magic that seems very relevant to future plot? Only sort of? It's said they have more magic in their blood than the other races do. That's one of the reasons why blood mages like sacrificing elves. They get a bit more bang for their buck. And Cole possibly corroborates this with his comment that a Lavellan has blood that isn't blood. But elf rogues and warriors don't have any magical abilities that rogues and warriors of other races don't get. The fact that this isn't reflected in combat doesn't mean that there's no magic - I mean, being a Dreamer ain't an active combat skill that is reflected in, for example, Solas's skill tree (and I don't think that what we saw in his skill tree is all there is), isn't it? Or what about Minaeve? Her magic wasn't strong enough for her to go through the Harrowing or have any magical combat skills (aside from maybe making a fistful of flames) but she is still someone with magical talents. So I don't necessarily speak about magic that is notable or obvious - just that there's something there that makes elves unique in their own way and, as mentioned, likely very relevant to future story. After all all elves, including non-mage warriors or rogues, are affected positively by Crossroads/see the colors and experience deja vu, which is apparently a uniquely elfy thing. Sera is a good 'non-magical' elf specimen that demonstrated that even elves that are actively rejecting the notion of magic still manifest magic/spirit(so, essentially, magic)-leaning tendencies. Plus, Solas - or whoever has sent the call - is gathering most elves from South somewhere for some reason.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Mar 26, 2019 1:28:34 GMT
Only sort of? It's said they have more magic in their blood than the other races do. That's one of the reasons why blood mages like sacrificing elves. They get a bit more bang for their buck. And Cole possibly corroborates this with his comment that a Lavellan has blood that isn't blood. But elf rogues and warriors don't have any magical abilities that rogues and warriors of other races don't get. The fact that this isn't reflected in combat doesn't mean that there's no magic - I mean, being a Dreamer ain't an active combat skill that is reflected in, for example, Solas's skill tree (and I don't think that what we saw in his skill tree is all there is), isn't it? Or what about Minaeve? Her magic wasn't strong enough for her to go through the Harrowing or have any magical combat skills (aside from maybe making a fistful of flames) but she is still someone with magical talents. So I don't necessarily speak about magic that is notable or obvious - just that there's something there that makes elves unique in their own way and, as mentioned, likely very relevant to future story. After all all elves, including non-mage warriors or rogues, are affected positively by Crossroads/see the colors and experience deja vu, which is apparently a uniquely elfy thing. Sera is a good 'non-magical' elf specimen that demonstrated that even elves that are actively rejecting the notion of magic still manifest magic/spirit(so, essentially, magic)-leaning tendencies. Plus, Solas - or whoever has sent the call - is gathering most elves from South somewhere for some reason. The sentences I bolded aren't really indicative that elves, in particular, have magical talents above and beyond those of other races. There are plenty of human mages who are not especially powerful who also are made Tranquil rather than being put through the Harrowing. That's one of the things you learn in the mage origin in DAO. Yes, elves are affected positively by the Crossroads. That could be for any number of reasons, as simple as them having more magic in their blood or as complicated as a racial affinity for the Fade that has not been entirely lost with time. It doesn't suggest to me that elves do magic. (Unless they're mages.) Solas calling elves to him is pretty ambiguous, and I don't think it's a clear indication that "all elves have magical abilities." Some fans think those are all ancient elves who have survived, in which case they're "his People." That's possible, but I think it's unlikely. Interestingly, the epilogue slide that goes with that narrative shows 12 elves, 4 of which are clearly carrying staves. I think it's possible he is calling modern mage elves to him, as they are as close as he can get to "his People" in the modern day and age. Two of the remaining 8 elves may be carrying staves that we can't see due to the angle they're drawn at/our perspective. The other 6 clearly aren't carrying staves, but they may be mages who don't have staves, or may be non-mage friends/family that the summoned elven mages are bringing along. They may equally be non-mage elves who have themselves been summoned by Solas. We just don't know enough to draw any conclusions yet. I have said here before that there is a grim possibility that Solas may be calling the elves to him to help him acquire the vast quantity of magical energy he likely needs to take down the Veil - as blood magic sacrifices. He doesn't have to tell them that's why he's summoning them. He may not be telling them the whole truth in whatever form his summons takes. (My bet is he's making contacts with elves in their dreams.) I know he hasn't used blood magic in the past, because it would have kept him from entering the Fade. But he says he's on the Dinan'shiral, so he may be resigned to cutting himself off from the Fade in order to accomplish his goals. If this is what's going on, then he may just be summoning elves for the same reason blood mages like to use them: because they have the extra dollop of magic in their blood. At any rate, the text that goes with that slide is " After the events at the Winter Palace, elves left the Inquisition under mysterious circumstances, as did elven servants across Thedas. None could say where they went, but those who believed the Inquisitor's story about Fen'Harel wondered just how large the Dread Wolf's forces were... and what the ancient elven rebel had planned." There's nothing that suggests he is summoning "most elves from the South." The truth is we don't yet really know the numbers of elves who are answering the summons.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 26, 2019 2:15:55 GMT
The fact that this isn't reflected in combat doesn't mean that there's no magic - I mean, being a Dreamer ain't an active combat skill that is reflected in, for example, Solas's skill tree (and I don't think that what we saw in his skill tree is all there is), isn't it? Or what about Minaeve? Her magic wasn't strong enough for her to go through the Harrowing or have any magical combat skills (aside from maybe making a fistful of flames) but she is still someone with magical talents. So I don't necessarily speak about magic that is notable or obvious - just that there's something there that makes elves unique in their own way and, as mentioned, likely very relevant to future story. After all all elves, including non-mage warriors or rogues, are affected positively by Crossroads/see the colors and experience deja vu, which is apparently a uniquely elfy thing. Sera is a good 'non-magical' elf specimen that demonstrated that even elves that are actively rejecting the notion of magic still manifest magic/spirit(so, essentially, magic)-leaning tendencies. Plus, Solas - or whoever has sent the call - is gathering most elves from South somewhere for some reason. The sentences I bolded aren't really indicative that elves, in particular, have magical talents above and beyond those of other races. There are plenty of human mages who are not especially powerful who also are made Tranquil rather than being put through the Harrowing. That's one of the things you learn in the mage origin in DAO. You've missed my point - I've given a Minaeve as a mere example in response to the idea that because something isn't reflected through combat or combat skills means we can infer from that that elves like elven warriors and rogues are non-magical. But you're also making a point that supports my argumentation - just because someone isn't powerful in clearly visible magical talents doesn't mean they're not magical. What does 'doing magic' means exactly and why do people who don't 'do magic' can't still be magical or posses magic? I mean, we're getting to a point in the narrative in which it's getting increasingly apparent that all people are magical, even the non-mages. They aren't magical in a sense that they can 'do something magical' in a very direct, overt sense - yet they still interact with the Fade and have effect on spirits, or posses spirits/souls. And Fade and spirits in Thedas are basically 100% magic. So, virtually all people (save Tranquils) have some sort of magic/magical connection - there is something about elves that makes them more magical/sensitive to magic than others and there's enough of it to distinguish them from the crowd in that aspect. Whoever is summoning them has some plans towards them, and given that elves are noted to have a strong magic connection (not necessarily just 'magical abilities') it's a logical conclusion to deduct it's something that will likely be significant. I mean, the more widespread fan theory is that there might be some sort of sacrificial rite through which Fen'Harel/someone would achieve some sort of goal - after all, you yourself have pointed out that elves and their blood was sought after due to its strong connection to the Fade ergo magic. So 4 elves out of 12 (1/4th) of visible elves are carrying staves means that Solas is only calling in just mages? I have to admit I don't see how it could be deduced that they're mostly mages when the only supposed indicator are staves they're carrying and they're in minority in an attached illustration "Elves of Inquisition" and "elven servants across Thedas" does indeed suggests that it is in fact quite a bit of elves.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 26, 2019 19:17:06 GMT
Nah. Mages have... well, magic. That will always be interesting and have potential for crazy shit. Don't elves have magic too? Like, inherent magic that seems very relevant to future plot? Most city elves don't.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 26, 2019 19:21:38 GMT
Nah. Mages have... well, magic. That will always be interesting and have potential for crazy shit. And the Dalish have their goal of preserving elven culture. City elves and casteless dwarves are just too normal. Not that different from human citizens or thugs. What really stands out about them is the oppressed status. City elves are still elves with all of the possibilities that entails. You know, being possibly descended from spirits, having a greater connection to the Fade, etc. Casteless dwarves are still dwarves with all of the possibilities that entails. Children of the Titans and all that. Unless you want to make the argument that city elves are not "real"elves and casteless dwarves aren't "real' dwarves. Casteless dwarves lead a very human like lifestyle, but I suppose any lore revelations may affect them all the same. Less so, yes. City elves are even more distant from it than the Dalish. And if I remember correctly, the Vhenadahl codex says they care less and less about keeping elven customs with each generation.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 26, 2019 19:23:27 GMT
Don't elves have magic too? Like, inherent magic that seems very relevant to future plot? Most city elves don't. City elves are elves and I am talking about elves in general.
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Post by Elessara on Mar 26, 2019 22:47:02 GMT
City elves are still elves with all of the possibilities that entails. You know, being possibly descended from spirits, having a greater connection to the Fade, etc. Casteless dwarves are still dwarves with all of the possibilities that entails. Children of the Titans and all that. Unless you want to make the argument that city elves are not "real"elves and casteless dwarves aren't "real' dwarves. Casteless dwarves lead a very human like lifestyle, but I suppose any lore revelations may affect them all the same. Less so, yes. City elves are even more distant from it than the Dalish. And if I remember correctly, the Vhenadahl codex says they care less and less about keeping elven customs with each generation. Regardless of whether or not the customs are kept, city elves are still elves. Customs do not dictate blood or genetics. Also, keep in mind that whilst surface dwarves lose their stone sense (or aren't even born with it if born above ground) and surface dwarves are casteless not all casteless are surface dwarves. Quite a number live in Orzammar and have never left. So you are trying to make the argument that city elves are not "real" elves and casteless dwarves are not "real" dwarves? Because I would definitely argue otherwise. Sera is still an elf even if she hates it, as some of her conversations with Solas point out. Casteless dwarves still have their stone sense if they're born below ground.
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