The Blanketfort (crying and throwing up) - The Official Solas Thread [Spoilers]

You know, it's funny. When I first played DAI, I didn't know the reason why Solas asks the Inquisitor if the anchor changed them somehow. He was actually trying to find a "reasonable explanation" for how can a worthy person exist in a world of not!people.

its 2019 and i'm still salty about Felassan

Some argue that Solas never lied, but merely withheld information.

However, I disagree. Everytime he talked about things he experienced in the ancient elven empire and said "Oh, I just saw that in the Fade", that was a flat out lie.

Even if it was him just holding back information, that’s still lying since it is a lie of omission. “The whole truth” and all that.

What if he also saw it as a memory in the Fade?  Would that then be considered lying?  It's entirely possible that Solas witnessed events in the Fade that he also happened to witness when they actually happened.  He could have even been reliving his own memories.  I would say that technically that's not lying.

Note:  I'm not advocating that Solas never lied.  I don't remember if I did in the past although I wouldn't now.  But then I also don't see lying as some sort of massive sin; it mostly depends on what one is lying about and why.

They did. Here, have an ancient description of the Fade from Vir Dirthara:

"Epiphany requires a mind smooth as mirror glass, still as stone. Put aside ten years for practice, and the next hundred for searching. What others have learned will ease your journey. Those who never manifested outside the Fade will find it easier to find its stillest roots, but it is rare the compulsion overtakes our brethren of the air."
That is not true at all. It's actually one of Solas's favorite tricks - he can tell the truth, while people understand it however they like or perceive something.
Not to Solas, clearly. And he understands Fade better than most people.
I'm sorry, but that's like saying that we don't know what gravity or weak force are because they're intrinsically connected to our world...

And I've already pointed out that they definitely have known the Fade back then with example above. There are more mentions of it, including dialogue recorded between trapped elves where they express shock how could the Dread Wolf separate the waking and dreaming world. What the elves didn't have a concept of was the Veil (or both worlds being separate), not the Fade.

So the fact that people now think of it as something definitely separate and different from the physical world - rather than part of it, like during ancient times - doesn't make it unknowable or indescribable. Heck, Elvenhan could only exist and be as powerful and magical because of their deep understanding of the Fade. It's just that their understanding is different from the understanding of it of modern Thedosians. So Solas can totally tell the truth and people understand it only how they understand it, because their (and thus our, as an audience) understanding of it is likely overly-simplistic or simply incomplete.

Well, you've literally stated "the Fade wasn't a concept back then" and thus I addressed it. I mean... you clearly thought it's relevant before you were shown evidence that your assessment is simply wrong in this regard.
Didn't I point that out before - that this is Solas's favorite trick? There is however a difference between giving someone enough room to arrive at incorrect conclusions and 'flat out lying'.

Nevermind that Solas actually doesn't overuse "I saw it in the Fade" as much as we joke he does - mostly he uses it for things he must've seen in the Fade, like pieces of modern history (Ostagar or memory of what preceded Orlais). Like, look at the scene where he and Inky are talking about the orb and tell me please where he said that he 'saw it in the Fade'? Everything he's stated there is true, actually - the rest is done by assumptions of those he talks with. All this falls well within Solas having a reputation of 'lying by omission' - oh, it's lying, just not 'flat out lying', because technically what he conveyed is actually objectively (in-universe) true.
How do you know how he learned about the ancient elven empire? Don't we have suggestions that he was a spirit who didn't want to leave the Fade, before (presumably) Mythal summoned him? Didn't he say that he's grown in a small village, but left it after he explored all the Fade in the area? We have no idea how much he's learned just living in the Empire and how much by exploring the Fade - or whether making a distinction is even that relevant, especially when it comes to ancient past OR because Fade reflects the world to begin with.
This is a textbook ad hominem, Iddy. You're trying to dismiss my argumentation based only on the presumption that I'm a 'die hard fan' and then assume further that for me Solas can do no wrong.

Not only it's not true, not cool and not a way to have a good discussion - people usually deploy ad hominems when they have no valid arguments to make. So the fact that you did that doesn't reflect good on you, rather than me, a 'diehard fan'.

I mean, I'm not sure how we've even arrived at the point where we're supposedly arguing about whether Solas lies at all or in any form, when it's established both in story (by Solas himself) and Word Of God (PW) that Solas can indeed lie by omission and I didn't really see this contested here or anywhere else, aside from having fun discussions sometimes about whether a given line is a lie/obfuscation or not OR occasionally having arguments whether Solas is a 'pathological liar' because he sometimes doesn't tell the whole truth/obfuscates?

All I've argued right now is that it's definitely not as simple to deem it a 'flat out lie' when it comes to the whole "I saw it in the Fade" thing, NOT that Solas doesn't lie at all...

The 'according to diehards Solas can do no wrong' angle is weird indeed, especially that it's made by somebody who frequents the thread long enough they should know that a considerable majority of Solas fans find him compelling precisely because he's not perfect (which is also pretty much the reason why he's so polarizing overall).

Short answer: Because I wanted to and because I can.

And this is what I responded to and keep responding to - you can make arguments whether Solas lies directly or not; what I was pointing out was that calling all the times Solas said that he 'saw something in the Fade', especially in relation to something he may have experienced personally during Elvenhan, a 'flat out lie' just ain't going to work for the thesis you've set out to prove, given that these are usually perfect examples of how Solas lied by omission/"withheld information" rather than 'flat out lied' .

Direct, and especially 'flat out lies' mean lying to the max: with no basis in facts or personal experience or whatnot; something completely made up, which I think both you and I can agree 'seeing in the Fade' for Solas... simply isn't.
You're free to do so, but then I am entirely free to ignore your own fan theories about what and how Solas experienced things in Elvenhan, which - I'd like to point out - is what you've chosen to support your thesis on the frequency or heaviness of his lies when he tells us he saw something in the Fade. You are making a lot of assumptions about Solas's experience of which neither you or me or anyone else aside from devs in Bioware know, as well as assumptions about how Fade works or has worked during times of Elvenhan.