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Post by OhDaniGirl on Apr 8, 2019 19:10:44 GMT
I look forward to getting more info on Solas' backstory in DA4. Me too. I hope we get lots of info on all the Evanuris, and the ancient world in general. I live for that stuff.
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 9, 2019 8:07:00 GMT
To be fair, he does have strong reason both to feel and remain detached from current people and conflicts beyond his overall mission, given that they're both so pointless compared to what he thinks of as natural, and he intends to overturn the game table anyway, rendering the current world order as others understand it mostly moot. On some level I also think he enjoys being able to take a back seat and engage intellectually without each and every one of his actions having a world of repercussions. The way he talks about the war and his youthful rage and righteousness, aside from the danger of Coryphewhatshisface actually achieving godhood, the day-to-day of the game must be the lowest the stakes have been for him for thousands of years. I imagine it's no accident that he seems more animated and emotionally engaged in Trespasser. The vacation is over, and everything is on him again. If/when he returns in 4, it wouldn't surprise me for him to be a bit more ruthless and vindictive than we're used to, akin to his old resolve to fight to save his people, come what may. See, I felt he was actually colder and more reserved in Trespasser, not more animated and emotional. (For the same reason as you, though: the vacation is over, the armor is firmly back on, both literally and figuratively.) He seemed much more lively and emotional during the vanilla game. I admit part of that might be cus I saw his romance, but he was lively with the party banter, too. He was having a pretty good time just being "Solas" and nothing else, I think. Re-donning the mantle of Fen'Harel seemed like it made him tighten the reigns on his emotions, not let them loose. That's exactly what I mean though. In the base game he's relaxed and mostly just a bit curious and a bit intrigued and a bit encouraged by what's going on, like a professor pretending to be fully engaged in his students' assignments when they're asking him for help, only actually affected when something goes horrendously right or wrong. In Tresspasser he's positively exploding with tension, sarcastic, full of blame, easily annoyed and offended, and touching you and acknowledging your points almost brings him to his knees. People often talk about how hard this romance is for Lavellan, but Solas must've been a nerve wreck through the whole thing. I imagine him being overwhelmed by feelings of guilt over hiding the truth, anxiety from the fact that it can't last, the idea of her death and so on. Meh. If he's really spent the last part of his life fighting a bitter revolutionary war with everything that entails and eventually destroying the world as he knew it, I don't think that the stress of simply keeping some secrets would touch him a whole lot. And the romance itself is short on actual promises or declarations or anything along those lines. It's a serious but completely noncommittal affair, and he never gives you the impression of anything else. I think he's more likely to feel guilty for, in his eyes, essentially having robbed Lavellan of her birthright as an elf, and her people by extension, rather than simply not being completely forthright with her. He may even accept the added pain of lying to her and not being able to have a real relationship as some sort of small twisted penance. Forcing himself to face the consequences of his actions fully and intimately. (Speculating as someone who has definitely fouled an otherwise promising relationship or two by being dishonest and trying to keep important things from my partner. The secret-keeping would have gotten a bit harder on him during a full-time romantic entanglement while living together, but Solas and Lavellan just don't get to that point over the course of the game before he leaves at the end.)
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Post by Sifr on Apr 9, 2019 13:52:33 GMT
I look forward to getting more info on Solas' backstory in DA4. Me too. I hope we get lots of info on all the Evanuris, and the ancient world in general. I live for that stuff. I'd like to learn more about the other side of the story.
Were all the Evanuris as bad as Solas described? Or has he, much like Flemeth, let bitterness cloud his memories?
Obviously having slaves and pretending to be Gods paints them in a bad light, but were all the Evanuris power-hungry, petty tyrants? Mythal was counted among their number, had slave/subjects who worshipped her as a goddess and was known for being someone not to be crossed... yet we know that Solas still viewed her as the best of them and rained an eternity of pain down on the others to avenge her murder. So what was it that made the others worse and which of them were the worst of the lot?
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Post by Iddy on Apr 9, 2019 17:54:58 GMT
Me too. I hope we get lots of info on all the Evanuris, and the ancient world in general. I live for that stuff. I'd like to learn more about the other side of the story.
Were all the Evanuris as bad as Solas described? Or has he, much like Flemeth, let bitterness cloud his memories?
Obviously having slaves and pretending to be Gods paints them in a bad light, but were all the Evanuris power-hungry, petty tyrants? Mythal was counted among their number, had slave/subjects who worshipped her as a goddess and was known for being someone not to be crossed... yet we know that Solas still viewed her as the best of them and rained an eternity of pain down on the others to avenge her murder. So what was it that made the others worse and which of them were the worst of the lot?
I find it hard to imagine Ghilain'nan as a tyrant. The tales make her look as non-threatening as possible.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 18:10:21 GMT
I'd like to learn more about the other side of the story.
Were all the Evanuris as bad as Solas described? Or has he, much like Flemeth, let bitterness cloud his memories?
Obviously having slaves and pretending to be Gods paints them in a bad light, but were all the Evanuris power-hungry, petty tyrants? Mythal was counted among their number, had slave/subjects who worshipped her as a goddess and was known for being someone not to be crossed... yet we know that Solas still viewed her as the best of them and rained an eternity of pain down on the others to avenge her murder. So what was it that made the others worse and which of them were the worst of the lot?
I find it hard to imagine Ghilain'nan as a tyrant. The tales make her look as non-threatening as possible. Er... tales maybe, but we can find multiple notes in Trespasser that come across as 99% her writing and they make her look like a mad scientist who is more interested in magical experiments than lives of even the very last specimen that she jails and uses in those experiments...
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Apr 9, 2019 18:53:58 GMT
Indeed. Ghilan'nain was a monster.
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Post by Elessara on Apr 9, 2019 22:25:12 GMT
I took a break from the thread for a few days. After reading this article I'm not sure I have a great deal of hope for DA4 anymore. kotaku.com/the-past-and-present-of-dragon-age-4-1833913351Why does EA have to fuck everything up with "live service" crap? And I actually enjoy Anthem although I think it would have made a much better single player game. And DA4 is still in early development? Ugh. I suppose the biggest thing for me is if Patrick Weekes is still the lead writer. I haven't heard otherwise so I'm assuming he is.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 9, 2019 22:30:40 GMT
Yeah, Ghilly currently has my vote for "worst evanuris" from what we know of their activities, with Falon'Din or Andruil a close second. On a personal level, I may end up disliking Andruil more, but we'll see. All we have against June, that I know of, is that his staffing abilities leave a little to be desired. But that seemed more likely to be simple neglect to me, given what we know of him. I'm expecting June to be an objects > people(except maybe Sylaise) kinda guy, who just didn't care much about the slaves/nobles under him or how they resolved things, so long as they carried out his creative vision properly when he assigned it to them. When it comes to Elgar'nan, one main thing I want to know is what the dynamic was between the Evanuris, specifically if they really were family or if that was some bit of story/metaphor/misinterpretation that's been handed down. Like, if Elgar'nan really had the relationship he seems to have had with Mythal in the myths, then I have a hard time believing he killed her for power. And regardless I have a hard time believing he'd team up with other people to do it instead of just acting on his own. I have a theory that there will be more to the whole "they murdered Mythal" story than Solas actually knows, much less what he told us. It'd be entirely his luck to have screwed up and have it turn out that one or more of the Evanuris he imprisoned actually wasn't in on it. Elgar'nan and Dirthamen (with his backstabbed fade statue) are the most likely to fit the bill to me.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 22:40:33 GMT
I took a break from the thread for a few days. After reading this article I'm not sure I have a great deal of hope for DA4 anymore. kotaku.com/the-past-and-present-of-dragon-age-4-1833913351Why does EA have to fuck everything up with "live service" crap? And I actually enjoy Anthem although I think it would have made a much better single player game. And DA4 is still in early development? Ugh. I suppose the biggest thing for me is if Patrick Weekes is still the lead writer. I haven't heard otherwise so I'm assuming he is. We don't know what 'live service' for DA4 entails, other than assurances from Casey Hudson that it allows them for 'continuous storytelling' (in one of the recent articles Mark Darrah also suggests that the post-release content will look differently in their future titles, with less classic DLCs, but more content in smaller batches updated more frequently than once every few months and with them able to react to community demands faster than they did before). I mean, live service works in two last Assassin's Creed, which are full SP games, or FFXV, so I see no reason why they can't in DA too. Also, keep in mind that current BW devs cited in the article have dismissed the idea that Dragon Age will be basically 'Anthem with dragons', as much as we could discuss what it would mean for DA or whether it's good or bad. Never mind that the article is huge on speculation, but very light in terms of any concrete details, especially after the reboot - and that was in mid-to-late 2017. I think we can confidently say that we have no clue how the game will look like, other than there's likely a lot more to it than vague concepts and writer's disjointed ideas about game's live service component that we get in the article.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 9, 2019 22:47:52 GMT
I took a break from the thread for a few days. After reading this article I'm not sure I have a great deal of hope for DA4 anymore. kotaku.com/the-past-and-present-of-dragon-age-4-1833913351Why does EA have to fuck everything up with "live service" crap? And I actually enjoy Anthem although I think it would have made a much better single player game. And DA4 is still in early development? Ugh. I suppose the biggest thing for me is if Patrick Weekes is still the lead writer. I haven't heard otherwise so I'm assuming he is. I've seen nothing indicating Patrick is leaving.
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Post by Elessara on Apr 9, 2019 22:58:05 GMT
I took a break from the thread for a few days. After reading this article I'm not sure I have a great deal of hope for DA4 anymore. kotaku.com/the-past-and-present-of-dragon-age-4-1833913351Why does EA have to fuck everything up with "live service" crap? And I actually enjoy Anthem although I think it would have made a much better single player game. And DA4 is still in early development? Ugh. I suppose the biggest thing for me is if Patrick Weekes is still the lead writer. I haven't heard otherwise so I'm assuming he is. We don't know what 'live service' for DA4 entails, other than assurances from Casey Hudson that it allows them for 'continuous storytelling' (in one of the recent articles Mark Darrah also suggests that the post-release content will look differently in their future titles, with less classic DLCs, but more content in smaller batches updated more frequently than once every few months and with them able to react to community demands faster than they did before). I mean, live service works in two last Assassin's Creed, which are full SP games, or FFXV, so I see no reason why they can't in DA too. Also, keep in mind that current BW devs cited in the article have dismissed the idea that Dragon Age will be basically 'Anthem with dragons', as much as we could discuss what it would mean for DA or whether it's good or bad. Never mind that the article is huge on speculation, but very light in terms of any concrete details, especially after the reboot - and that was in mid-to-late 2017. I think we can confidently say that we have no clue how the game will look like, other than there's likely a lot more to it than vague concepts and writer's disjointed ideas about game's live service component that we get in the article. Yeah, I've just been feeling a little doomy and gloomy lately I think. Which is one of the reasons I took a break from the thread. Although ever since how they tried to hype up DA2 I've always taken BioWare's "assurances" with a grain of salt heh.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 23:07:21 GMT
Yeah, I've just been feeling a little doomy and gloomy lately I think. Which is one of the reasons I took a break from the thread. Although ever since how they tried to hype up DA2 I've always taken BioWare's "assurances" with a grain of salt heh. You're free to do so, but I'd take information from article that is this speculative and vague on details with a grain of salt as well. I think it's safe to say that we know little more than we've known yesterday...
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Post by Elessara on Apr 9, 2019 23:41:36 GMT
Yeah, I've just been feeling a little doomy and gloomy lately I think. Which is one of the reasons I took a break from the thread. Although ever since how they tried to hype up DA2 I've always taken BioWare's "assurances" with a grain of salt heh. You're free to do so, but I'd take information from article that is this speculative and vague on details with a grain of salt as well. I think it's safe to say that we know little more than we've known yesterday... I wasn't feeling doomy and gloomy about DA4 specifically, just in general. I didn't want to it to spill over here, hence the break. That article didn't help although you are correct, it's very speculative. BioWare in general does tend to learn from its mistakes so hopefully they learn from the mistakes made on Anthem (and ME:A). I'm also pretty negative about any attempt to add multiplayerness (that is now a word!) to traditionally single player games. One of the reasons I play single player games is because I don't have to worry about anyone else.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Apr 10, 2019 0:24:12 GMT
Elessara Emily Taylor (a game designer at BioWare; she was on Anthem but I suspect will be on DA now since she's at the Edmonton studio) did an informal poll on Twitter in February. It was out of personal interest, not work-related, and not sponsored by BioWare at all. She asked what it is about multiplayer games that people dislike. The top thing that people disliked was having to deal with other people - and the abuse that frequently entails for certain players. It was, as I say, an informal survey, but I hope that game companies pay attention, and that researchers who study video games might do a proper study along similar lines that might have an impact on how multiplayer spaces are moderated, so as to improve player experience in the future.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 10, 2019 0:25:48 GMT
You're free to do so, but I'd take information from article that is this speculative and vague on details with a grain of salt as well. I think it's safe to say that we know little more than we've known yesterday... I wasn't feeling doomy and gloomy about DA4 specifically, just in general. I didn't want to it to spill over here, hence the break. That article didn't help although you are correct, it's very speculative. BioWare in general does tend to learn from its mistakes so hopefully they learn from the mistakes made on Anthem (and ME:A). I'm also pretty negative about any attempt to add multiplayerness (that is now a word!) to traditionally single player games. One of the reasons I play single player games is because I don't have to worry about anyone else. I've participated in that discussion more than 5 years ago, when many people were unhappy with the idea that a traditionally single player franchise is going full MMO. Now that I've played ESO more than I played Skyrim and Oblivion combined I can't say that I'm as opposed to multiplayer/online elements in a single-player game, especially that we don't know what those elements would actually be. I mean, live service doesn't really mean multiplayer - it's everything that allows for continued revenue, which also includes any DLCs and updates or patches, the likes of which we got in DAI (including tinting table, storage chest, different PJ's, golden nug or Black Emporium). In fact, DA devs chimed in long ago and point out that every DA title to date had some form of live services. What that means for DA4? Well, aside from probably a different approach towards post-launch content (no more an afterthought, now it's a more deliberate thing spread across longer period... can you imagine getting a DLC the size of Trespasser, story-wise, every year for a few years, for example?) we may see something like a store we saw in Assassin's Creed. I have no idea how much DA devs want to play with interactive, dynamic world, but I wouldn't mind some form of dynamic events or even effects like weather across different maps or zones, if we're even heading in that direction anyway.
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Post by Elessara on Apr 10, 2019 1:06:58 GMT
Elessara Emily Taylor (a game designer at BioWare; she was on Anthem but I suspect will be on DA now since she's at the Edmonton studio) did an informal poll on Twitter in February. It was out of personal interest, not work-related, and not sponsored by BioWare at all. She asked what it is about multiplayer games that people dislike. The top thing that people disliked was having to deal with other people - and the abuse that frequently entails for certain players. It was, as I say, an informal survey, but I hope that game companies pay attention, and that researchers who study video games might do a proper study along similar lines that might have an impact on how multiplayer spaces are moderated, so as to improve player experience in the future. If that's the same Domino, then she was also a dev for EQ2. She was much beloved as the tradeskill developer. Player toxicity is one of the main reasons I avoid any pvp like the plague. I have tried it in various MMOs but overwhelmingly the people I encounter are rude and abusive. However, when I say I often prefer single player games because I don't have to "worry" about other people it's not just player toxicity - although it is partially that. When I play a single player game I don't have to worry about waiting for friends to be online to do things. I don't have to worry about whether or not my friends and I will be able to handle the content as the three of us prefer to play together and it's hard to find content that's scaled for 3 people. I don't have to worry about whether my friends are enjoying themselves or are just playing a particular game to humor me. Also, traditionally single player rpgs have less gear grind than multiplayer games and player choices can generally have more impact on the world at large.
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Post by Kymira on Apr 10, 2019 1:15:14 GMT
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Post by Elessara on Apr 10, 2019 1:29:12 GMT
I wasn't feeling doomy and gloomy about DA4 specifically, just in general. I didn't want to it to spill over here, hence the break. That article didn't help although you are correct, it's very speculative. BioWare in general does tend to learn from its mistakes so hopefully they learn from the mistakes made on Anthem (and ME:A). I'm also pretty negative about any attempt to add multiplayerness (that is now a word!) to traditionally single player games. One of the reasons I play single player games is because I don't have to worry about anyone else. I've participated in that discussion more than 5 years ago, when many people were unhappy with the idea that a traditionally single player franchise is going full MMO. Now that I've played ESO more than I played Skyrim and Oblivion combined I can't say that I'm as opposed to multiplayer/online elements in a single-player game, especially that we don't know what those elements would actually be. I mean, live service doesn't really mean multiplayer - it's everything that allows for continued revenue, which also includes any DLCs and updates or patches, the likes of which we got in DAI (including tinting table, storage chest, different PJ's, golden nug or Black Emporium). In fact, DA devs chimed in long ago and point out that every DA title to date had some form of live services. What that means for DA4? Well, aside from probably a different approach towards post-launch content (no more an afterthought, now it's a more deliberate thing spread across longer period... can you imagine getting a DLC the size of Trespasser, story-wise, every year for a few years, for example?) we may see something like a store we saw in Assassin's Creed. I have no idea how much DA devs want to play with interactive, dynamic world, but I wouldn't mind some form of dynamic events or even effects like weather across different maps or zones, if we're even heading in that direction anyway. The Elder Scrolls did not exclusively go online though. Yes, there is one game that is an MMO but that doesn't mean they're going to stop making single player ES games and ESO was designed to be an MMO from the start. Also, the ES games have little in the way of story continuity. They're all basically separate games set in the same world. The concern for many I think is they would take DA4 and suddenly make it an MMO or even a co-op. Ok, I seriously doubt they'd do an actual MMO. Personally though I'm even opposed to co-op. I mean, say they turn DA4 into a live service with constant story updates. Does that mean no DA5? No conclusion to the story that we currently have? And if that fails would they even continue with DA as a series? I also played ESO. I didn't do the beta but I was there from day 1. It was ... ok. When I played however, end game was pvp. Ew. Then they came out with end game non-pvp content but it was all scaled around a group of 4 players or a raid (which I forget how many that was .. 8? 16?). At the time that sucked because we basically had 5 of us who wanted to play together which was too much for the group content. Then two people stopped playing which meant we had not enough for the group content. Also, the way they initially handled quests and phasing sucked ass. I understand they've made changes to that though. Then there's the cash shop; they tend to get out of control. I play a number of online/multiplayer/co-op games. Not every game needs to be that or have that. And let's be honest, when EA says "live service" it means they want some form of online, multiplayer/co-op thing going on which is why ME3 and DAI and MEA all had the multiplayer parts tacked on.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 10, 2019 1:48:10 GMT
I play a number of online/multiplayer/co-op games. Not every game needs to be that or have that. And let's be honest, when EA says "live service" it means they want some form of online, multiplayer/co-op thing going on which is why ME3 and DAI and MEA all had the multiplayer parts tacked on. They also mean for the live services in question to make them money, which is why it is definitely not going to just be "Hey look, we get a free event this month!" and that's it. There is no point to having people play the game longer if it does not benefit the company in some monetary way. Live services have either got to make the game great enough that new people continue to buy new copies, or its got to have some kind of game-related transaction system going. Cosmetics, microtransactions, sub. Something. Maybe some content that you only have access to if you are an EA/Origin Access subscriber.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 10, 2019 2:11:57 GMT
I've participated in that discussion more than 5 years ago, when many people were unhappy with the idea that a traditionally single player franchise is going full MMO. Now that I've played ESO more than I played Skyrim and Oblivion combined I can't say that I'm as opposed to multiplayer/online elements in a single-player game, especially that we don't know what those elements would actually be. I mean, live service doesn't really mean multiplayer - it's everything that allows for continued revenue, which also includes any DLCs and updates or patches, the likes of which we got in DAI (including tinting table, storage chest, different PJ's, golden nug or Black Emporium). In fact, DA devs chimed in long ago and point out that every DA title to date had some form of live services. What that means for DA4? Well, aside from probably a different approach towards post-launch content (no more an afterthought, now it's a more deliberate thing spread across longer period... can you imagine getting a DLC the size of Trespasser, story-wise, every year for a few years, for example?) we may see something like a store we saw in Assassin's Creed. I have no idea how much DA devs want to play with interactive, dynamic world, but I wouldn't mind some form of dynamic events or even effects like weather across different maps or zones, if we're even heading in that direction anyway. The Elder Scrolls did not exclusively go online though. Yes, there is one game that is an MMO but that doesn't mean they're going to stop making single player ES games and ESO was designed to be an MMO from the start. Also, the ES games have little in the way of story continuity. They're all basically separate games set in the same world. The concern for many I think is they would take DA4 and suddenly make it an MMO or even a co-op. Ok, I seriously doubt they'd do an actual MMO. Personally though I'm even opposed to co-op. I mean, say they turn DA4 into a live service with constant story updates. Does that mean no DA5? No conclusion to the story that we currently have? And if that fails would they even continue with DA as a series? The last SP ES game was in 2011. We can't rule out that the next TES game will not be online or have online components - although given that this is a general trend, it seems likely. They didn't just push into their engine and experimented with online tools for Fallout 76... Who said that there will be no conclusion to the story we currently have, especially that we already have overt hints via teaser that DA4 will continue the story of DAI? I mean, look at Anthem - it's designed specifically to continue and expand the story *within* one game, with content planned to arrive more regularly over months and years, rather than a single big chapter every 3 to 6 years. If things go well, then however the story will conclude, it will conclude within 1st Anthem. That doesn't mean at all that this is what will happen with Dragon Age - but since we're already waiting 5th year on next DA chapter, I personally wouldn't mind getting live service content for at least 3 of those, instead of merely 1. They can think of stuff that doesn't conclude the overarching story, but give us something to chew on in the meantime, I'm sure. I certainly wouldn't mind *playing* Deception, not just reading it, for example. Solas's story during times of Elvenhan? If enough people want it they'd have less technical hurdles and more incentives to create it. You want a kissy scene that they didn't manage to include during main game's production? Hey, if enough people want it, they may patch it in as a live service. I mean, the live services wouldn't have to fail for the game to not continue - there's no reason to assume that even if they've made DA4 the 'old-fashioned way' that it will actually conclude DAI's story or guarantee a sequel. In fact, live services are there to try and make it happen in ever-changing realities of the gaming market. That was 5 years ago. The current game is basically entirely different. You don't want endgame consisting of group content or PVP? OK - there are elaborate, oftentimes multi-chapter fully narrative-driven, entirely soloable stories, each lasting from 10ish to over 30 hours long. Recurring characters and choices that have consequences included, and that's aside from a lot of that being some of the best RPG stories around. I don't mind cash shop if it continuously gives us high quality content each year, especially that most of it is cosmetic or just plain convenience. Is this also the reason why the very first Bioware game had multiplayer? Or Baldur's Gate? Or Neverwinter Nights? Didn't BW fans make a stink when KOTOR did not have multiplayer? Bioware has been adding multiplayer where it could when it wasn't even a big thing in the industry. In fact, DAI began its life as a solely multiplayer, codenamed Blackfoot - and it's that game that later became the core of Inquisition, as the project pivoted to single player. So the multiplayer isn't 'tacked on' - it's actually what the game is built around. I think it's fair to say that Bioware simply likes multiplayer and co-op and will try to add it wherever it's possible, EA mandate or no.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 10, 2019 2:19:43 GMT
I play a number of online/multiplayer/co-op games. Not every game needs to be that or have that. And let's be honest, when EA says "live service" it means they want some form of online, multiplayer/co-op thing going on which is why ME3 and DAI and MEA all had the multiplayer parts tacked on. They also mean for the live services in question to make them money, which is why it is definitely not going to just be "Hey look, we get a free event this month!" and that's it. There is no point to having people play the game longer if it does not benefit the company in some monetary way. Live services have either got to make the game great enough that new people continue to buy new copies, or its got to have some kind of game-related transaction system going. Cosmetics, microtransactions, sub. Something. Maybe some content that you only have access to if you are an EA/Origin Access subscriber. So far updates in Anthem remain free, with stuff you can buy (because you can also grind in-game gold) for real money being vanity. And if DA makes for a good enough proposition to keep people sub into EA Access, that alone should bring enough profits from title alone. It's similar to how console exclusives work - console exclusives don't have to directly make money, so long as they incentivize people to buy and use the platform it's on. And a lot of folks will consider it a good value to spend 5 or 15 bucks for a month with a game that majority of players will never play/finish more than once - that is unless 'free updates' provide enough value proposition to buy another month of sub. That is a viable revenue model that EA has been transitioning into in past years.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Apr 10, 2019 2:46:46 GMT
Elessara Emily Taylor (a game designer at BioWare; she was on Anthem but I suspect will be on DA now since she's at the Edmonton studio) did an informal poll on Twitter in February. It was out of personal interest, not work-related, and not sponsored by BioWare at all. She asked what it is about multiplayer games that people dislike. The top thing that people disliked was having to deal with other people - and the abuse that frequently entails for certain players. It was, as I say, an informal survey, but I hope that game companies pay attention, and that researchers who study video games might do a proper study along similar lines that might have an impact on how multiplayer spaces are moderated, so as to improve player experience in the future. If that's the same Domino, then she was also a dev for EQ2. She was much beloved as the tradeskill developer. Player toxicity is one of the main reasons I avoid any pvp like the plague. I have tried it in various MMOs but overwhelmingly the people I encounter are rude and abusive. However, when I say I often prefer single player games because I don't have to "worry" about other people it's not just player toxicity - although it is partially that. When I play a single player game I don't have to worry about waiting for friends to be online to do things. I don't have to worry about whether or not my friends and I will be able to handle the content as the three of us prefer to play together and it's hard to find content that's scaled for 3 people. I don't have to worry about whether my friends are enjoying themselves or are just playing a particular game to humor me. Also, traditionally single player rpgs have less gear grind than multiplayer games and player choices can generally have more impact on the world at large. It is the same Domino. I agree with you about not having to coordinate a time to play with friends, etc. My friends are in multiple time zones, have children, etc. so it's not really easy to find a time we all can play. Then there's also the fact that many of my closest friends aren't into the same type of video games as I am. Those were other reasons people gave, and they also made it onto Emily/Domino's graph, but they weren't cited as frequently as reasons why people don't like MP games. Ideally, game companies would consider all of those reasons.
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Post by Elessara on Apr 10, 2019 11:51:50 GMT
The Elder Scrolls did not exclusively go online though. Yes, there is one game that is an MMO but that doesn't mean they're going to stop making single player ES games and ESO was designed to be an MMO from the start. Also, the ES games have little in the way of story continuity. They're all basically separate games set in the same world. The concern for many I think is they would take DA4 and suddenly make it an MMO or even a co-op. Ok, I seriously doubt they'd do an actual MMO. Personally though I'm even opposed to co-op. I mean, say they turn DA4 into a live service with constant story updates. Does that mean no DA5? No conclusion to the story that we currently have? And if that fails would they even continue with DA as a series? The last SP ES game was in 2011. We can't rule out that the next TES game will not be online or have online components - although given that this is a general trend, it seems likely. They didn't just push into their engine and experimented with online tools for Fallout 76... Who said that there will be no conclusion to the story we currently have, especially that we already have overt hints via teaser that DA4 will continue the story of DAI? I mean, look at Anthem - it's designed specifically to continue and expand the story *within* one game, with content planned to arrive more regularly over months and years, rather than a single big chapter every 3 to 6 years. If things go well, then however the story will conclude, it will conclude within 1st Anthem. That doesn't mean at all that this is what will happen with Dragon Age - but since we're already waiting 5th year on next DA chapter, I personally wouldn't mind getting live service content for at least 3 of those, instead of merely 1. They can think of stuff that doesn't conclude the overarching story, but give us something to chew on in the meantime, I'm sure. I certainly wouldn't mind *playing* Deception, not just reading it, for example. Solas's story during times of Elvenhan? If enough people want it they'd have less technical hurdles and more incentives to create it. You want a kissy scene that they didn't manage to include during main game's production? Hey, if enough people want it, they may patch it in as a live service. I mean, the live services wouldn't have to fail for the game to not continue - there's no reason to assume that even if they've made DA4 the 'old-fashioned way' that it will actually conclude DAI's story or guarantee a sequel. In fact, live services are there to try and make it happen in ever-changing realities of the gaming market. That was 5 years ago. The current game is basically entirely different. You don't want endgame consisting of group content or PVP? OK - there are elaborate, oftentimes multi-chapter fully narrative-driven, entirely soloable stories, each lasting from 10ish to over 30 hours long. Recurring characters and choices that have consequences included, and that's aside from a lot of that being some of the best RPG stories around. I don't mind cash shop if it continuously gives us high quality content each year, especially that most of it is cosmetic or just plain convenience. Is this also the reason why the very first Bioware game had multiplayer? Or Baldur's Gate? Or Neverwinter Nights? Didn't BW fans make a stink when KOTOR did not have multiplayer? Bioware has been adding multiplayer where it could when it wasn't even a big thing in the industry. In fact, DAI began its life as a solely multiplayer, codenamed Blackfoot - and it's that game that later became the core of Inquisition, as the project pivoted to single player. So the multiplayer isn't 'tacked on' - it's actually what the game is built around. I think it's fair to say that Bioware simply likes multiplayer and co-op and will try to add it wherever it's possible, EA mandate or no. It seems like you're trying to convince me to be happy about the current trend in single player games and it's not going to work. Also, I know you like to argue things but after this post I'm actually done with this topic. Baldur's Gate and NWN "multiplayer" sucked in my opinion. It felt clunky and unsupported. Most of the people I know who played Baldur's Gate and NWN never bothered with it (yes, yes anecdotal blah blah). I have no idea if people complained about KOTOR's lack of multiplayer or not. I actually picked that game up awhile after it was released. I'm very glad they didn't go that route with DAI as I wouldn't have played it. However, most of BioWare's most popular games have been a story centralised around a single character which (in my opinion) is something I find lends itself better to single player games than to multiplayer games. I find it jarring to have a game constantly say "you are The One!" and then turn around and see hundreds of other "The Ones". I'm not sure you can argue that BioWare likes multiplayer and co-op ... as you said KOTOR didn't have it. Mass Effect 1 and 2 didn't have it. DAO and DA2 didn't have it. If they liked it that much they'd have found a way to put it into those games and don't say, "Oh it just wasn't possible" unless you can actually find an article where the devs said that. They did try making an MMO with SWTOR ... and it didn't go so well. And yes, I'm aware SWTOR is still around, I actually play it. One of the problems SWTOR has (again my opinion) is that it tries to be everything to everyone and it can't so all aspects of the game suffer from lack of attention. On the topic of cash shops, I actually have no problem supporting games I enjoy by spending money on them in cash shops as long as those shops are mainly cosmetics or at worse convenience. The last time I looked at the Crown shop for ESO (it was a couple years ago) their prices were entirely too high for me and it wasn't a game I enjoyed enough to want to spend that much money on. Anthem's current cash shop is actually a rather pleasant surprise as everything can be bought with in game money (some things can only be bought with in game money) and the amount of premium currency they charge doesn't seem unreasonable (we'll see if that changes). And now back to our regularly scheduled Solas thread. That guy, am I right?
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Apr 10, 2019 13:28:25 GMT
That guy, yup... Recent art by Nipuni... This was based on some of her followers' sketch ideas. She calls this one "Foolish love". And here's her "mini-Solas". I love that she is still drawing him, 4-5 years on.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 10, 2019 13:39:14 GMT
Recent art by Nipuni... She calls this one "Foolish love". "Hate is always foolish and love is always wise."
Sadly, I've got the feeling that Solas may sometimes forget this.
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