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Post by midnight tea on May 10, 2019 15:20:13 GMT
One thing I don't understand is, why are there warriors and rogues among the ancient elves. Didn't Solas say that everyone had a connection to the Fade back then? So how come not everyone was a mage? A. It's been thousands of years and we don't know how affected many of these ancient elves are by changes to the world or lenght of Uthenera, plus we do know that there were differences in power levels among ancient elves. B. Why assume that these warriors and rogues aren't connected to the Fade? Clearly ancient elves fought with normal (or what look like normal) weapons and we have known this long before we discovered Sentinels in ToM, given that bow is considered an elven weapon that is (as are shields or swords) depicted frequently in ancient art. Arcane Warriors are also an ancient elvhen thing. Heck, even some Evanuris used what at least looked like normal weapons (as Andruil used her bow). And Cole is a spirit, and while he says that he is the way he is because original Cole wanted to be non-magical and thus he sticks to blades, it's quite obvious that he uses his connection to the Fade to be as deadly with those blades as he is. He also suggests that Sera is so good with bow because she is tuned in to the Fade. So ancient elves can be magical and still use their connection most effectively with melee weapons. And like... I'm fairly sure this guy needs magic to even lift this damn thing
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Post by Elessara on May 10, 2019 22:40:55 GMT
One thing I don't understand is, why are there warriors and rogues among the ancient elves. Didn't Solas say that everyone had a connection to the Fade back then? So how come not everyone was a mage? A. It's been thousands of years and we don't know how affected many of these ancient elves are by changes to the world or lenght of Uthenera, plus we do know that there were differences in power levels among ancient elves. B. Why assume that these warriors and rogues aren't connected to the Fade? Clearly ancient elves fought with normal (or what look like normal) weapons and we have known this long before we discovered Sentinels in ToM, given that bow is considered an elven weapon that is (as are shields or swords) depicted frequently in ancient art. Arcane Warriors are also an ancient elvhen thing. Heck, even some Evanuris used what at least looked like normal weapons (as Andruil used her bow). And Cole is a spirit, and while he says that he is the way he is because original Cole wanted to be non-magical and thus he sticks to blades, it's quite obvious that he uses his connection to the Fade to be as deadly with those blades as he is. He also suggests that Sera is so good with bow because she is tuned in to the Fade. So ancient elves can be magical and still use their connection most effectively with melee weapons. And like... I'm fairly sure this guy needs magic to even lift this damn thing One thing I've always wanted to do in a DA game was multiclass. I love the idea of a mage/rogue. I honestly also think that in DA2 if you were a mage you should have been required to do some kind of multiclassing just to hide your mage-iness. Unfortunately being an apostate was one of the things that was virtually ignored in DA2. Also, that guy in the pic definitely needs magic just to lift that damn thing ... because seriously wtf? lol
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Post by midnight tea on May 10, 2019 23:08:11 GMT
One thing I've always wanted to do in a DA game was multiclass. I love the idea of a mage/rogue. I honestly also think that in DA2 if you were a mage you should have been required to do some kind of multiclassing just to hide your mage-iness. Unfortunately being an apostate was one of the things that was virtually ignored in DA2. Also, that guy in the pic definitely needs magic just to lift that damn thing ... because seriously wtf? lol I still dream of magic archer And yea, the first time I saw that elf swinging that big-ass hammer thingy I was like "hang on... wut, wut, WUT???". Another question I've had is why is this elf wielding a weapon that looks distinctly not elvhen? Looks more like something a giant ancient Avvar would be using. Anybody knows if this is a weapon that exists in other places? Or is it something only this elf swings and if so - why?
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Post by OhDaniGirl on May 11, 2019 0:51:47 GMT
One thing I've always wanted to do in a DA game was multiclass. I love the idea of a mage/rogue. I honestly also think that in DA2 if you were a mage you should have been required to do some kind of multiclassing just to hide your mage-iness. Unfortunately being an apostate was one of the things that was virtually ignored in DA2. Also, that guy in the pic definitely needs magic just to lift that damn thing ... because seriously wtf? lol I still dream of magic archer And yea, the first time I saw that elf swinging that big-ass hammer thingy I was like "hang on... wut, wut, WUT???". Another question I've had is why is this elf wielding a weapon that looks distinctly not elvhen? Looks more like something a giant ancient Avvar would be using. Anybody knows if this is a weapon that exists in other places? Or is it something only this elf swings and if so - why? It's called a Barbarian Lord Maul, and there isn't really anything particularly special that I can see. Doesn't Krem carry one?
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on May 11, 2019 1:14:50 GMT
I still dream of magic archer And yea, the first time I saw that elf swinging that big-ass hammer thingy I was like "hang on... wut, wut, WUT???". Another question I've had is why is this elf wielding a weapon that looks distinctly not elvhen? Looks more like something a giant ancient Avvar would be using. Anybody knows if this is a weapon that exists in other places? Or is it something only this elf swings and if so - why? It's called a Barbarian Lord Maul, and there isn't really anything particularly special that I can see. Doesn't Krem carry one? I don't think so. I thought Krem was sword 'n board?
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Post by OhDaniGirl on May 11, 2019 1:20:45 GMT
It's called a Barbarian Lord Maul, and there isn't really anything particularly special that I can see. Doesn't Krem carry one? I don't think so. I thought Krem was sword 'n board? <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.5800000000000125" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 4.58px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -6px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_9159747" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.5800000000000125" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 4.58px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -6px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_4799977" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.5800000000000125" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 4.58px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 169px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_30559674" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.5800000000000125" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 4.58px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 169px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_36300112" scrolling="no"></iframe> Oh, yeah. I don't remember where, but I'm pretty sure I've seen others besides that elf carrying one.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on May 11, 2019 3:38:16 GMT
It's a skull on a stick. (Probably a draconic skull, based on the horns.) Unless it is petrified, it wouldn't actually be as heavy as it looks! The horn bases, which in IRL animals are pretty well solid bone, would add a good bit of weight, but the rest of the skull would be pretty light, really. The brain case and rostrum (nose) would be largely empty space.
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Post by Elessara on May 11, 2019 12:28:40 GMT
It's a skull on a stick. (Probably a draconic skull, based on the horns.) Unless it is petrified, it wouldn't actually be as heavy as it looks! The horn bases, which in IRL animals are pretty well solid bone, would add a good bit of weight, but the rest of the skull would be pretty light, really. The brain case and rostrum (nose) would be largely empty space. A skull ... even a dragon-type creature's skull ... isn't going to be resilient enough to smash around like that as a weapon. Maybe it's a giant rock shaped lik- you know what? Either way magic has to be involved lol.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on May 11, 2019 14:13:41 GMT
It's a skull on a stick. (Probably a draconic skull, based on the horns.) Unless it is petrified, it wouldn't actually be as heavy as it looks! The horn bases, which in IRL animals are pretty well solid bone, would add a good bit of weight, but the rest of the skull would be pretty light, really. The brain case and rostrum (nose) would be largely empty space. A. We don't know how much a "draconic skull" weights B. It would have to be considerably weighty or weighted in order to do damage, otherwise what's the point.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on May 11, 2019 14:27:23 GMT
It's a skull on a stick. (Probably a draconic skull, based on the horns.) Unless it is petrified, it wouldn't actually be as heavy as it looks! The horn bases, which in IRL animals are pretty well solid bone, would add a good bit of weight, but the rest of the skull would be pretty light, really. The brain case and rostrum (nose) would be largely empty space. A. We don't know how much a "draconic skull" weights B. It would have to be considerably weighty or weighted in order to do damage, otherwise what's the point. A. We don't, but skulls tend to be hollow, which tends to mean "lighter than a solid thing with the same dimensions." Which is exactly what I said in my first post. B. The point is that it still has weight, but maybe not as much weight as you would think on first glance? I did say the horn bits would be heavy. Either way, as Elessara mentioned, there would have to be magic involved - either to make a solid/petrified skull or stone carving of a skull light enough for the wielder to lift, or to make regular bone strong enough to resist being smashed to splinters with each strike.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on May 11, 2019 17:13:51 GMT
Well, dragon bone has one of the highest armor ratings of any material in the game, so it must be stronger/more resilient than regular bone. Does that mean it's also heavier? Who knows.
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Post by Elessara on May 11, 2019 19:40:46 GMT
The Great Weapon Debate of 2019! We really need DA4 news.
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Post by midnight tea on May 12, 2019 23:38:46 GMT
Let's go back to overanalyzing Solas's dialogue in the meantime, shall we Was anyone else curious about this banter? Solas: By the end of Hard in Hightown, almost every character is revealed as a spy or a traitor. Varric: Wait, you read my book? Solas: It was in the Inquisition library. Everyone but Donnen turned out to be in disguise. Is that common? Varric: Are we still talking about books or are you asking if everyone I know is a secret agent? Solas: Are there many tricksters in dwarven literature? Varric: A handful, but they're the exception. Mostly they're just honoring the ancestors. It's very dull stuff. Human literature? Now there's where you'll find the tricky, clever, really deceptive types. Solas: Curious. Varric: Not really. Dwarves write how they want things to be. Humans write to figure out how things are.Because I am, basically every time it comes up.... what does Solas finds so curious about the fact that human literature contains a lot of clever tricksters? From the way he reacts to it one can tell that this isn't just something he has a passing interest in - it's like he really finds it intriguing for some reason and I'm not sure what exactly that reason is... though I can't help to notice that Solas immediately goes to casually comparing tricksters with secret agents/spies/traitors.
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Post by Elessara on May 13, 2019 3:07:30 GMT
Let's go back to overanalyzing Solas's dialogue in the meantime, shall we Was anyone else curious about this banter? Solas: By the end of Hard in Hightown, almost every character is revealed as a spy or a traitor. Varric: Wait, you read my book? Solas: It was in the Inquisition library. Everyone but Donnen turned out to be in disguise. Is that common? Varric: Are we still talking about books or are you asking if everyone I know is a secret agent? Solas: Are there many tricksters in dwarven literature? Varric: A handful, but they're the exception. Mostly they're just honoring the ancestors. It's very dull stuff. Human literature? Now there's where you'll find the tricky, clever, really deceptive types. Solas: Curious. Varric: Not really. Dwarves write how they want things to be. Humans write to figure out how things are.Because I am, basically every time it comes up.... what does Solas finds so curious about the fact that human literature contains a lot of clever tricksters? From the way he reacts to it one can tell that this isn't just something he has a passing interest in - it's like he really finds it intriguing for some reason and I'm not sure what exactly that reason is... though I can't help to notice that Solas immediately goes to casually comparing tricksters with secret agents/spies/traitors. Maybe he's referencing the differences between dwarven and human literature? That could be what he finds interesting.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on May 13, 2019 3:10:32 GMT
I like to think he's just trolling everyone, as he is with the wolf jawbone. I think he takes a wry pleasure in hiding in plain sight. "A wolf jawbone necklace? Haha! I'm the Dread Wolf. Having a conversation about tricksters? Haha, if you guys only knew."
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Post by OhDaniGirl on May 13, 2019 4:07:46 GMT
I like to think he's just trolling everyone, as he is with the wolf jawbone. I think he takes a wry pleasure in hiding in plain sight. "A wolf jawbone necklace? Haha! I'm the Dread Wolf. Having a conversation about tricksters? Haha, if you guys only knew." Prof. Kenric: I suppose I forgot Fen'Harel Fen'Harel: Most people do.
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Post by Iddy on May 13, 2019 11:33:10 GMT
I wonder how did Solas come to be considered a god. He wasn't one of the Evanuris, so it must've happened a different way.
And come to think of it, there is a potential parallel with the Inquisitor. Solas didn't want to be called a god, but people did it anyway. And Lavellan is called the Herald of Andraste, even if she doesn't want them to.
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Post by Elessara on May 13, 2019 11:45:41 GMT
I wonder how did Solas come to be considered a god. He wasn't one of the Evanuris, so it must've happened a different way. And come to think of it, there is a potential parallel with the Inquisitor. Solas didn't want to be called a god, but people did it anyway. And Lavellan is called the Herald of Andraste, even if she doesn't want them to. Ghilan'nain didn't start out as an Evanuris either though and was raised to that level; though the story from the Temple of Mythal differs from the Dalish legend it still has her starting out as not being one of the gods and then rising to that level. It could even be the Evanuris gave him that rank over his own protests. He didn't start out leading a rebellion and they might have considered it a "reward" for something he did. But I think you're right, it's probably intended as a possible parallel with the Inquisitor. He's running around yelling, "I'm NOT a god, I'm NOT a god!" and everyone else is going, "Oh look, it's the god Fen'Harel up to his usual antics. He's such a card!". There have been quite a few Solas/Inquisitor parallels.
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Post by midnight tea on May 13, 2019 13:04:15 GMT
I like to think he's just trolling everyone, as he is with the wolf jawbone. I think he takes a wry pleasure in hiding in plain sight. "A wolf jawbone necklace? Haha! I'm the Dread Wolf. Having a conversation about tricksters? Haha, if you guys only knew." I'm not sure about that. The conversation isn't in any sort of light or mocking tone - you can tell that when Solas's saying 'curious' that he's actually curious about it. Of course, as someone who's interested in culture studies I'd be quick to point out that society's culture reflects something about that society. Studying it can be no less revealing (and fun) about people's psyche than for Solas browsing through Fade is - in fact I can't think of better equivalent of reflecting our states of mind, especially on scale of the collective. Hence I find the dialogue interesting and got to wonder why Solas seems surprised by humans' affinity to tricksters. Reflecting something from the past?
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Post by fylimar on May 13, 2019 13:04:38 GMT
Let's go back to overanalyzing Solas's dialogue in the meantime, shall we Was anyone else curious about this banter? Solas: By the end of Hard in Hightown, almost every character is revealed as a spy or a traitor. Varric: Wait, you read my book? Solas: It was in the Inquisition library. Everyone but Donnen turned out to be in disguise. Is that common? Varric: Are we still talking about books or are you asking if everyone I know is a secret agent? Solas: Are there many tricksters in dwarven literature? Varric: A handful, but they're the exception. Mostly they're just honoring the ancestors. It's very dull stuff. Human literature? Now there's where you'll find the tricky, clever, really deceptive types. Solas: Curious. Varric: Not really. Dwarves write how they want things to be. Humans write to figure out how things are.Because I am, basically every time it comes up.... what does Solas finds so curious about the fact that human literature contains a lot of clever tricksters? From the way he reacts to it one can tell that this isn't just something he has a passing interest in - it's like he really finds it intriguing for some reason and I'm not sure what exactly that reason is... though I can't help to notice that Solas immediately goes to casually comparing tricksters with secret agents/spies/traitors. I had that conversation once or twice too and I wondered, if SOlas is contemplating recruiting other races for his cause and therefore asked Varric in an indirect way, how the different races see trickster
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Post by Iddy on May 13, 2019 13:22:21 GMT
Let's go back to overanalyzing Solas's dialogue in the meantime, shall we Was anyone else curious about this banter? Solas: By the end of Hard in Hightown, almost every character is revealed as a spy or a traitor. Varric: Wait, you read my book? Solas: It was in the Inquisition library. Everyone but Donnen turned out to be in disguise. Is that common? Varric: Are we still talking about books or are you asking if everyone I know is a secret agent? Solas: Are there many tricksters in dwarven literature? Varric: A handful, but they're the exception. Mostly they're just honoring the ancestors. It's very dull stuff. Human literature? Now there's where you'll find the tricky, clever, really deceptive types. Solas: Curious. Varric: Not really. Dwarves write how they want things to be. Humans write to figure out how things are.Because I am, basically every time it comes up.... what does Solas finds so curious about the fact that human literature contains a lot of clever tricksters? From the way he reacts to it one can tell that this isn't just something he has a passing interest in - it's like he really finds it intriguing for some reason and I'm not sure what exactly that reason is... though I can't help to notice that Solas immediately goes to casually comparing tricksters with secret agents/spies/traitors. I had that conversation once or twice too and I wondered, if SOlas is contemplating recruiting other races for his cause and therefore asked Varric in an indirect way, how the different races see trickster I think Solas is making it too easy to spot his agents by only recruiting elves. Then again, no one else could possibly see the appeal to his plan.
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Post by fylimar on May 13, 2019 13:26:31 GMT
I had that conversation once or twice too and I wondered, if SOlas is contemplating recruiting other races for his cause and therefore asked Varric in an indirect way, how the different races see trickster I think Solas is making it too easy to spot his agents by only recruiting elves. Then again, no one else could possibly see the appeal to his plan. That is why I think, he might branch out with his agents
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Post by Sifr on May 14, 2019 11:52:28 GMT
Because I am, basically every time it comes up.... what does Solas finds so curious about the fact that human literature contains a lot of clever tricksters? From the way he reacts to it one can tell that this isn't just something he has a passing interest in - it's like he really finds it intriguing for some reason and I'm not sure what exactly that reason is... though I can't help to notice that Solas immediately goes to casually comparing tricksters with secret agents/spies/traitors. Maybe what interests him is how it can be seen as an insight into human psychology?
Compared to every other race in Thedas, humans do seem to be the most competitive with each other and the ones most prone to internal conflict, so the amount of trickery and deception featured in their literature may be a subconscious reflection that humans seek to always try to get the upper-hand over one another.
That isn't to say that Qunari, Elves and Dwarves are without internal conflict or factions, but even then, each group seems to operate with far more cohesion.
The Qunari who follow the Qun are kept in-line by it's strict tents, while Tal-/Vashoth are united by their refusal to submit to the Qun. Dwarves (Surface and Underground) are united by their strong sense of tradition, caste/guild affiliation and an ever-present threat of Darkspawn providing a common enemy. While Elves (both City and Dalish) have developed a strong sense of community and tradition in response to the societal/cultural oppression they've faced from humanity over the centuries.
Being aware of roughly what to expect from each race/faction would be crucial for him to factor them into his plans, so maybe he was trying to get a better bead on (modern) humans from Varric, who both grew up surrounded by humanity but has an outsider's perspective?
(Solas' conversations with other characters often seem to have him ask probing questions about their ideals or those of their respective race/faction. He asks Cassandra about the Chantry, Vivienne about the Circle, Dorian about Tevinter, Varric about Dwarves, Sera about Elves, Bull about the Qun, etc.)
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Post by Iddy on May 14, 2019 12:28:04 GMT
I like to think he's just trolling everyone, as he is with the wolf jawbone. I think he takes a wry pleasure in hiding in plain sight. "A wolf jawbone necklace? Haha! I'm the Dread Wolf. Having a conversation about tricksters? Haha, if you guys only knew." What about the wolves painted on the walls of his spot in Skyhold?
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Champion of Kirkwall
1212
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8,025
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on May 14, 2019 13:23:04 GMT
I like to think he's just trolling everyone, as he is with the wolf jawbone. I think he takes a wry pleasure in hiding in plain sight. "A wolf jawbone necklace? Haha! I'm the Dread Wolf. Having a conversation about tricksters? Haha, if you guys only knew." What if Cabot the Bartender figured it out straight away, but didn't tell anyone?
Cabot: Inquisitor.
Quizzy: Uh, I've had a day... the Exalted Council was a nightmare, the Qunari attacked, then Solas showed up and it turns out he's secretly-
Cabot: Fen'Harel. Quizzy: Fen-... yes, did someone already tell you? Cabot: Nope. Quizzy: So how did you know? Cabot: Figured it out.
Quizzy: When?! Cabot: First time he came in.
Quizzy: That was four years ago! Cabot: Yep.
Quizzy: And you didn't tell anyone? Cabot: Nope. Quizzy: Why?! Cabot: Discretion. Quizzy: ...
Cabot: Inquisitor.
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