The Blanketfort (crying and throwing up) - The Official Solas Thread [Spoilers]

Kinda funny isn't it? Instead of other characters and their relationship with Solas contextualizing and elevating him above being the apparent scum of the earth, apparently it works the other way around and taints those characters...

It’s quite simple really. He kept things from the Inquisition that needed to be known but instead kept it to himself thus hurting others. Whether that be Rainier not being a Warden and instead just a fugitive murderer or Solas having been the one who armed the people we are trying to stop, things like that were not for him to keep secret or be the sole arbiter of.

Kinda hard to put him on the same level as an accomplice when his understanding of moral obligation is barely on par with that of a child's....no seriously. His dialogue with Cassandra makes it abundantly clear that he has trouble comprehending how his actions could have larger consequences. 

It isn't funny as much as it simply misses the point. I mean... given that I know that you have very high moral standards (I'm not sneering at you btw., you're perfectly within your right to have ones), I'm not sure why you seem to care that Cole keeps Solas's secrets, but not downright murdering people, including killing a person whose death seems to have greatly contributed to devastating mage-templar war. Cole simply doesn't care about criminal acts (especially if he becomes more spirit), regardless of whatever law you think Solas/Cole should operate by. Nor Cole is Justice - he's Compassion.

Cole only really seems to care about intentions or emotions surrounding one's actions and cares especially about caring, compassionate people - if someone is an unrepentant, egoistic a-hole, Cole is very quick to point that out and has little sympathy for such characters. It's been pretty well established. Clearly, it looks like intentions surrounding Solas's actions can't really be that sinister, psychopathic or unencumbered by remorse, guilt or willingness to try and fix past mistakes (including Cory debacle) given that an embodiment of compassion cares about him about as much as he cares about morally pure as snow Inquisitor. That's my point.

The thing is, Solas' plan might very well be destructive, but it would return the world to what it was before and how it's supposed to be. Solas not only broke the world, but he broke the Elves too. Now he seeks to help them by removing what it was that "hurts" them (loss of magic and immortality), not too dissimilar to how Cole goes about removing people's hurt to help them.

Solas tells us that in a world without the Veil, spirits would exist as part of nature. Without the Veil separating the worlds and trapping them in the Fade, you wouldn't have spirits getting twisted into demons by their resentment of mortals and covetous desire to walk in their world.

Why would Cole object to Solas' plan when it would restore the world to it's previous state, in addition to helping the Elves and Spirits?

Oh, Cole seems perfectly aware - or at least spirit!Cole:

Trespasser: "When this is done, I will slip back safely, a Spirit. Someone is hurting. He needs me to remember who he is."

I'm fairly sure we know who he's talking about.

Also, from Trespasser epilogue: "Cole returned to the Fade, saying that there was more pain coming, and that he knew where compassion was most needed. He promised that his friends in the Inquisition would remember him... and that where the hurt was greatest, he would help."

So Cole not only seems aware, he seems pretty certain that he will play a role in Solas's redemption. The redemption angle may not be certain itself, but so far spirit!Cole seems to believe things will resolve in some sort of positive way.

Now, I'm not saying every bald elf is Solas... but you can't prove he isn't.

Thanos, Vader, etc didn’t act out of malice either.

Some new pretties from Nipuni:

I... I love this.

I never thought that Solas was acting from malice where the modern world was concerned. Nevertheless his actions are still going to cause a lot of grief and pain in other people and for that reason you would think Cole would want to stop him. As it is Cole seems awfully selective about whom he considers worthy of his compassion. He has lots for Solas but apparently less for the millions of other souls that his actions will harm.



I was also never entirely sure that Cole was favouring redemption because that would mean he saw Solas as in the wrong for what he was doing. When he was arguing against killing Solas it seemed to be on the basis he wasn't a "bad" wolf at that moment in time. Actually in being willing to destroy an entire state of existence because he doesn't like it as much as the one he wants to replace it with seems to me to be a very bad wolf, particularly as Solas doesn't seem to regard his actions as morally wrong (because essentially he doesn't believe in black and white notions of good and evil).

Does a spirit even have notions of redemption in the same way that we think of it?

Does he though? What if he knows a bit more about Solas's plans and intentions and the choice isn't as simple as either Solas or 'millions of other souls that his actions will harm'? I mean, I think it's clear that Solas doesn't really want to hurt millions of people - but maybe the choice is between harm coming to people either way, especially if nothing is done? Maybe it's something of a trolley problem? Plus, we know the Fade part of the world is hurting. That magical beings are hurting, that spirits are hurting - and that's without us knowing who and how many there are of those who 'sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding and hurting'...
Nnnnnot really? The means to reach the goal may be wrong, not necessarily the goal itself. I mean... it's not like our PCs don't have choices like this all across Dragon Age story, even if smaller in scope - we can choose meaner or more consequential means to reach the some goals after all, regardless of how necessary/morally right it was to reach that goal from the in-world perspective.

And let's not forget that friendly Inquisitor can tell Solas that they will prove him that he doesn't have to destroy this world - quite apparently in a sense that there may be another solution to the problem that Solas doesn't see for some reason and seems to have kept Inky alive for them to find it. He does tell them that he's looking forward to it after all.
Er... I definitely didn't interpret it that way. There was no indicator there that Solas isn't a 'bad' wolf 'at that moment in time'. "He isn't that kind of wolf" is hard to interpret in many other ways than 'there are bad wolves out there and Solas isn't one of them'.
Precisely. Which is why Cole's friendship and evaluation of Solas perhaps suggests that there's more to Solas's plan and motivation than "willing to destroy an entire state of existence because he doesn't like it as much as the one he wants to replace it with", eh?

Also - where did the "Solas doesn't seem to regard his actions as morally wrong" come from ? Then why does he think he should be punished for what he does for the whole of eternity and wants to protect beloved Inquisitor from his own fate? The issue doesn't seem to be that Solas views his actions as not morally wrong or too gray to see the difference - he seems to think he has virtually no other choice but the worst ones. Heck, he literally tells us that.