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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 12, 2021 2:58:36 GMT
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Post by Sifr on Jan 12, 2021 4:01:02 GMT
That too.
If the only option for Solas to live was to force him back into Uthenera or the Fade, I'd take that as a bittersweet but acceptable outcome. I'd prefer to keep him alive, even if I have to stick him in time out for another thousand years until he cools the hell down.
Between the Evanuris and the Old Gods, I'm sure there's still space on the shelf for another sealed "evil" in a can.
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Post by fluffysmom on Jan 12, 2021 10:12:08 GMT
That too.
If the only option for Solas to live was to force him back into Uthenera or the Fade, I'd take that as a bittersweet but acceptable outcome. I'd prefer to keep him alive, even if I have to stick him in time out for another thousand years until he cools the hell down.
Between the Evanuris and the Old Gods, I'm sure there's still space on the shelf for another sealed "evil" in a can.
I’m kind of torn about this. Or what his punishment will be. I don’t see him dying. If all the gods couldn’t completely kill Mythal, then I don’t see him dying. Plus they’ve built him up for too long. The only logical punishment I can think of is to strip him of his power. But would he even want to live like that? I don’t think so. Or ‘killing’ him and he becomes a fragment that wanders for millennia like Mythal did. Sucks for the romance though. Forcing him to sleep or be trapped in the fade is probably what he wants, it’s where he’s happiest. A lavellan choosing to go with him could be bittersweet I guess but mine would happily do so. As much as I love him, he has to lose something for what he’s done/will do, even if he helps in the end. My punishment would be the stripped of power and forced to go around teaching the dalish and merging them with the ancient elves. He would be miserable (lol) but alive but also consider himself tranquil so...meh. My head goes in circles about it.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Feb 1, 2021 23:29:22 GMT
so...I randomly found this as I'm currently replaying Inquisition...and I've already turned several on even knowing it has no direct impact (unless they put it in the DA Keep for some reason) post does make you wonder...what do those things do if not strengthen the Veil like Solas says they are?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2021 23:33:22 GMT
so...I randomly found this as I'm currently replaying Inquisition...and I've already turned several on even knowing it has no direct impact (unless they put it in the DA Keep for some reason) post does make you wonder...what do those things do if not strengthen the Veil like Solas says they are? They were proven to strengthen the Veil as of the story "The Wigmaker Job" in the Tevinter Nights book. Whether they have any other uses is yet to be discovered. For all intents and purposes, they're just a way to farm approval with Solas.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Feb 1, 2021 23:55:17 GMT
so...I randomly found this as I'm currently replaying Inquisition...and I've already turned several on even knowing it has no direct impact (unless they put it in the DA Keep for some reason) post does make you wonder...what do those things do if not strengthen the Veil like Solas says they are? They were proven to strengthen the Veil as of the story "The Wigmaker Job" in the Tevinter Nights book. Whether they have any other uses is yet to be discovered. For all intents and purposes, they're just a way to farm approval with Solas. ...I really should buy that book...kinda broke atm. but it's definitely on my list anyway, thanks for clarifying
My Inquisitor's just turn them on whenever they find them even if Solas is not in the team, they don't need to farm the points with him anyways, because they (and I) are naturally curious and bug him with questions
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Feb 2, 2021 2:53:20 GMT
I have zero basis for this other than that it would make sense, but since playing Trespasser for the first time back in 2015, I have thought that if Solas' artifacts can strengthen the Veil, they can probably also weaken it - especially if one of the codices of the Veil is correct about it being a sort of vibration (like radio waves, light waves, etc. IRL).
I don't know what the ancient elves would have used them for, but purely speculatively, I have imagined that the artifacts might have been used to make structures more permanent since we always find them in elven ruins. If the world pre-Veil was as mutable as myth and our trips to the Fade suggest it might have been, then maybe they used the artifacts to stabilize "reality" so they could build stone buildings. And that might not be so different from "strengthening the Veil," which is what we were doing with them in DAI.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Feb 2, 2021 17:26:44 GMT
so...I randomly found this as I'm currently replaying Inquisition...and I've already turned several on even knowing it has no direct impact (unless they put it in the DA Keep for some reason) post does make you wonder...what do those things do if not strengthen the Veil like Solas says they are? Personally, I think they alter the veil either way, strengthening or weakening it depending on how they're used.
Tevinter Nights showed it strengthening the veil, apparently.
In-game, you get coordinates of a veil rift after you activate enough of them. So activating the artifacts either gave Solas some kind of data that he could use to guess where a tear would occur, or activating them actually caused a tear in a specific place that could be predicted b/c you knew which artifacts you activated and where they were. I think it might be the latter.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 2, 2021 18:48:28 GMT
They definitely have something to do with the Veil because they look very similar to the astrariums and apparently the Order of Fiery Promise went around destroying them "Because they believed the astrariums held together the Veil, and that destroying them would destroy the Veil and thus the world." Now I don't know how the OFP acquired their information but presumably from pictures, which is why the similarity between the two items had them confuse one for the other. So substitute elven artifact for astratrium and the belief would read: "Because they believed the elven artifacts held together the Veil, and that destroying them would destroy the Veil and thus the world."
Somehow Solas managed to co-ordinate his trap so all the gods were imprisoned at once so may be the artifacts had something to do with that. So he triggered one and it fired a beam to another and another and so on until the entire Veil was formed from the network of crisscrossing magical beams, which he then made permanent.
That would also explain how the creators of the astrariums probably got their ideas for beams fired from different astrariums intersecting at a certain point where they hid their stash and why they looked so similar to the artifacts, because they had been looking at the same pictures as the OFP but in a different era without making the Veil connection.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 3, 2021 20:54:03 GMT
Personally, I think they alter the veil either way, strengthening or weakening it depending on how they're used.
Tevinter Nights showed it strengthening the veil, apparently.
In-game, you get coordinates of a veil rift after you activate enough of them. So activating the artifacts either gave Solas some kind of data that he could use to guess where a tear would occur, or activating them actually caused a tear in a specific place that could be predicted b/c you knew which artifacts you activated and where they were. I think it might be the latter. Upon learning his plan in Trespasser was to tear down the Veil, it made me think that perhaps the real purpose for activating those artefacts was to allow Solas to measure the Veil in different areas of Thedas to allow him to tear down the Veil in a more "safe" and "controlled" manner.
Like a controlled demolition of a building, Solas may be attempting to work out where the Veil is strongest, where the structural weaknesses are and work out how much power is required (and where it needs to be placed) to take down the whole thing in one go.
From what we saw from his lab in Vir Dirthara, he worked long and hard on the calculations needed to put up the Veil, so he probably wants to be as methodical in taking it down. As he said, he's not Corypheus, so I can't see Solas using sheer brute force to tear down the Veil as anything but a last resort.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Feb 4, 2021 6:17:06 GMT
Personally, I think they alter the veil either way, strengthening or weakening it depending on how they're used.
Tevinter Nights showed it strengthening the veil, apparently.
In-game, you get coordinates of a veil rift after you activate enough of them. So activating the artifacts either gave Solas some kind of data that he could use to guess where a tear would occur, or activating them actually caused a tear in a specific place that could be predicted b/c you knew which artifacts you activated and where they were. I think it might be the latter. Upon learning his plan in Trespasser was to tear down the Veil, it made me think that perhaps the real purpose for activating those artefacts was to allow Solas to measure the Veil in different areas of Thedas to allow him to tear down the Veil in a more "safe" and "controlled" manner.
Like a controlled demolition of a building, Solas may be attempting to work out where the Veil is strongest, where the structural weaknesses are and work out how much power is required (and where it needs to be placed) to take down the whole thing in one go.
From what we saw from his lab in Vir Dirthara, he worked long and hard on the calculations needed to put up the Veil, so he probably wants to be as methodical in taking it down. As he said, he's not Corypheus, so I can't see Solas using sheer brute force to tear down the Veil as anything but a last resort. I am of a similar mind. Wouldn't surprise me if the artifacts can both measure and effect the veil.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 4, 2021 6:35:27 GMT
If they do serve some purpose in his plans, I'm even more happy I never did that for him (was suspicious since first playthrough).
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 4, 2021 17:23:14 GMT
From what we saw from his lab in Vir Dirthara, Which was his lab? What calculations had he done?
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Post by xerrai on Feb 5, 2021 4:53:10 GMT
From what we saw from his lab in Vir Dirthara, Which was his lab? What calculations had he done? I think they are referring to this note? In the Scholar's Retreat? The only other note that I can think that contains formulae is the note we find by broken eluvians in the darvaarad trying to prove theoretical magic. But I always assumed that the note, was likely created by a member of the qunari given the qunlat annotations. Likely making notes about the area before Solas awoke the librarians. Although I suppose it is entirely possible that they were simply writing on a document that was created in ancient Arlathan. But I find that unlikely since the documents found in the Vir Dirthara are not real documents but rather ideas/memories that happen to take the shape of books per our perceptions. But then again, it wouldn't be the first time a piece of parchment was attributed to that time period... Still, it's mere placement in the Vir Dirthara at all makes it unlikely that Solas or one of his agents was the author. If this document was about creating the veil, why was it written and abandoned anywhere near the ancient equivalent of a public library? You would think such calculations would be done at one of his secure bases. And why was it supposedly abandoned? I certainly wasn't under the impression that the veil was a last minute rush-job. Just a last resort. But perhaps Sifir was referring to something different? I could be mistaken.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 5, 2021 8:59:11 GMT
If this document was about creating the veil, why was it written and abandoned anywhere near the ancient equivalent of a public library? You would think such calculations would be done at one of his secure bases. That's why I was puzzled at the assertion about having found his laboratory. If Solas needed to write down calculations at all, I would have thought that once done, he would memorise them and then destroy the originals, not leave them around for anyone to find. Nor do I think the spirit of the Vir Dirthara could have read his mind because Solas would know how to shield himself from such intrusion, again because of the need to keep his plan about the Veil secret until the time came to use it. Upon learning his plan in Trespasser was to tear down the Veil, it made me think that perhaps the real purpose for activating those artefacts was to allow Solas to measure the Veil in different areas of Thedas to allow him to tear down the Veil in a more "safe" and "controlled" manner. Now this does make a lot of sense except that he maintained that originally the plan was for Corypheus to unlock the orb and die, then Solas would have recovered the orb and then entered the Fade in order to bring down the Veil from the other side. That being the case, unless he left out the bit about a period between the two whilst he was setting things up by activating the artifacts, then if he needed them to do a controlled removal of the Veil he would have to have activated them before giving his orb to Corypheus. Also, from what he says about the fiery chaos that would have followed his action, it doesn't sound to me like it was being brought down in a "safe and controlled manner". In fact, if the words of Solas in the Dark Future actually mean that he didn't foresee removing the Veil to result in what it did there, then it doesn't seem like he was basing his action off careful calculations but just his own theory that all he had to do was reverse his previous action. However, it is possible that he knew that a slow removal would create problems, which is why he would have gone for a quick collapse. Also Corypheus tore open the Veil from the Waking World side. As Dagna says, the anchor would seem to be like a key that can either lock or unlock the door/Veil and what Solas specifically wanted to do was unlock the door so he could get back into the Fade physically and then remove the Veil from that side using his orb. Unfortunately for him, whilst the Inquisitor could get him into the Fade, he didn't have his orb, so had to work with the Inquisition in the hope of recovering it. I often wonder what he would have done if the orb hadn't been destroyed in that final battle with Corypheus. Would he have forced the Inquisitor to open the Veil for him so he could step through? Would he have looked for a Veil tear and try to step through that? Would he have simply crafted himself another anchor?
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Post by xerrai on Feb 5, 2021 18:52:35 GMT
If this document was about creating the veil, why was it written and abandoned anywhere near the ancient equivalent of a public library? You would think such calculations would be done at one of his secure bases. That's why I was puzzled at the assertion about having found his laboratory. If Solas needed to write down calculations at all, I would have thought that once done, he would memorise them and then destroy the originals, not leave them around for anyone to find. Nor do I think the spirit of the Vir Dirthara could have read his mind because Solas would know how to shield himself from such intrusion, again because of the need to keep his plan about the Veil secret until the time came to use it. If his lab would have been found anywhere, it would have been at Skyhold would it not? Since it is almost definitely the place where the veil was raised in the first place. Although one would assume that if there was such a laboratory, most of it would have withered away due to time, or would have already been discovered by someone. In fact, I think we may even have a name of who may have found what was left of Solas's notes on the veil: Ganot. They guy who concluded that the "veil was old" at Skyhold and died getting that information when he was doing some sort of experiment with the sky. Be it due to the sheer potency of the power around that area or some sort of defense in Skyhold itself, the lightning got rid of the researching enchanter AND all of his works. ("His workings brought lightning. Much lightning. The rods are pools of metal now, and all his workings burned"). It is also entirely possible that notes pertaining to the veil were found even earlier by an older occupant, and Ganot simply found the leftovers. Perhaps even by the early followers of Andraste since the Temple of Sacred Ashes is also in the Frostbacks so they were definitely in the area generally speaking. But it says a lot that the most we hear about the particulars of the veil's creation has only been these insanely obscure and vague references to its age at Skyhold. So I think Solas a did good job in covering his tracks. Even if the ravages of time may have helped him out in destroying or scattering what was left of the evidence.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 5, 2021 19:07:49 GMT
Perhaps even by the early followers of Andraste since the Temple of Sacred Ashes is also in the Frostbacks so they were definitely in the area generally speaking. Well if you recall the Promissors believed that the Veil was created because they also believed it needed to be destroyed in order that the world could be cleansed with fire and begin again, free of any corruption both moral and actual (the Blight). They would seem to have been some extreme cult of the Maker and must have got their ideas from somewhere. So maybe they did stumble on Solas' notes somewhere (even possibly Skyhold) and that is why their ideas seem to so closely match what Solas says would happen after the Veil is removed, so far as the fiery chaos is concerned, and is why I thought that the reason he seems so determined to go ahead with it is because that amount of magic would be needed to cleanse the world of the Blight. The alternative explanation would be that someone spoke to the original Promissors in their dreams to give them that idea. (Mythal possibly?)
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Post by xerrai on Feb 5, 2021 19:30:43 GMT
Perhaps even by the early followers of Andraste since the Temple of Sacred Ashes is also in the Frostbacks so they were definitely in the area generally speaking. Well if you recall the Promissors believed that the Veil was created because they also believed it needed to be destroyed in order that the world could be cleansed with fire and begin again, free of any corruption both moral and actual (the Blight). They would seem to have been some extreme cult of the Maker and must have got their ideas from somewhere. So maybe they did stumble on Solas' notes somewhere (even possibly Skyhold) and that is why their ideas seem to so closely match what Solas says would happen after the Veil is removed, so far as the fiery chaos is concerned, and is why I thought that the reason he seems so determined to go ahead with it is because that amount of magic would be needed to cleanse the world of the Blight. The alternative explanation would be that someone spoke to the original Promissors in their dreams to give them that idea. (Mythal possibly?) I myself subscribe to a similar theory. But I while it may been possible the early promisers (or the group that would later become promisers) were influenced by dreams, I don't think that would apply to the Promisers of today. If someone like Mythal or Solas wanted to influence them to take down the veil or search for a way to destroy it, they have seemingly been ineffective and were more concerned about targeting the Chantry's Seekers than anything else. So even if they were influenced back in the day I doubt they would have kept it up for centuries. What I find more interesting is the Promiser's persistence. They have allegedly been destroyed several times over now, and yet they still seem to crop up. They aren't like Old God Cults either where the primary lure for thier followers is power and the grandeur of the Old Imperium documented 'glory days'. Or Dragon Cults that are again seemingly motivated by power or some sort of will to survive in an abandoned region. They believe in a something that downright contradicts modern Chantry doctrine and seemingly leads to nothing but an apocalypse. So I think theorize may have something that originally came from Skyhold. Some sort or artifact or tome that conveys knowledge of some sort. Something (Solas's notes?) that, similar to the Lord Seeker's Book of Secrets, serves as undeniable proof of...something. And that this something causes several new recruits to believe that the world is worth destroying. So long as they have this strong 'proof' of why the world needs to be destroyed, they can pop up again and again and again just because of how compelling it is.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Feb 12, 2021 17:47:41 GMT
How to get over Solas, dear friends? I want to feel pace again
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Feb 12, 2021 18:09:34 GMT
How to get over Solas, dear friends? I want to feel pace again romance anyone but Solas and try not to get taken in by his charms? I've thankfully yet to fall into Solavellan hell so I can't give you a clear answer (I'm a Cullen x Lavellan romancer myself)
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 12, 2021 18:23:48 GMT
Imperator Furiåsa @devilkitten If you ship Solas and Cullen, does that make it Sullen?
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 12, 2021 18:35:25 GMT
How to get over Solas, dear friends? I want to feel pace again Definitely plunge straight back in with an alternative romance. I got over Solas with Dorian. However, I am tempted to replay the game at some point soon with a full on devout Dalish who really rubs him up the wrong way. The trouble is my Inquisitors up to now have always ended up with his approval, even my Trevelyan mage who allied with the Templars and was loved by Vivienne. I couldn't bring myself to finish the game with him because I loathed him. To seriously antagonise Solas I assume you have to do something really bad in his eyes, like kill his friend or all the sentinels, which I can't bring myself to do now I know it is avoidable.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 12, 2021 19:24:21 GMT
How to get over Solas, dear friends? I want to feel pace again Romance Josephine.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Feb 13, 2021 5:34:41 GMT
How to get over Solas, dear friends? I want to feel pace again Romance Garrus, again? That's how I do it. Doesn't last long, but its something. lol
How to get over Solas, dear friends? I want to feel pace again romance anyone but Solas and try not to get taken in by his charms? I've thankfully yet to fall into Solavellan hell so I can't give you a clear answer (I'm a Cullen x Lavellan romancer myself)
Run. Run while you still can!
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Feb 13, 2021 5:41:22 GMT
How to get over Solas, dear friends? I want to feel pace again Definitely plunge straight back in with an alternative romance. I got over Solas with Dorian. However, I am tempted to replay the game at some point soon with a full on devout Dalish who really rubs him up the wrong way. The trouble is my Inquisitors up to now have always ended up with his approval, even my Trevelyan mage who allied with the Templars and was loved by Vivienne. I couldn't bring myself to finish the game with him because I loathed him. To seriously antagonise Solas I assume you have to do something really bad in his eyes, like kill his friend or all the sentinels, which I can't bring myself to do now I know it is avoidable. My Dalish dagger rogue ended up having a solid mentor/mentee friendship with (Divine) Vivienne and still romanced Solas. They agree to disagree. And by "they", I mean all 3 parties involved. Honestly, its no different than being friends with Sera and still romancing Solas in that respect, imo.
Realistically, Viv might even sympathize a bit, though she hides it well (of course). The woman has to have at least one romantic bone in her body given the whole Bastien thing, after all.
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