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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 19:16:56 GMT
Jisandra oh no I'm sorry. I must have typed that wrong lol whenever I say Mythal has a piece of herself in people I don't mean they become her, just that they gain her power she herself said she loves to nudge or shove history along so I think she keeps adding her power to those who would fall so the story can keep going. She's sneaky, conniving and a bit too good at justice, wisdom and manipulation. I would be disappointed if we won't see Valta again. There were no variables to her fate, and everything ended in mild cliffhanger. But I don't think she would be changed, I think she would be ambassador to Titan. And I liked her too. I don't think that all titan era dwarves were like sha-brytol. Of course elven codex states that, but is could be simply a propaganda to dehumanize the enemies. I wouldn't take ancient elven sleepers as threat. In the mine was couple of dozens and we easily killed sentinels. They have no magic, they aren't ageless, they don't have numbers. You may not be wrong about the meine being the place of worship, though. In my country there is salt mine where is underground church, all sculpted from salt (it looks AWESOME). The miners used to go there to pray for luck. I could easily see elves working underground, with very unstable substance that is lyrium to pray frequently to their queen-goddess, to save their lives. I like that. She could help us understand what happened with the Titans and Elves! I suspect the Titan did not like the Inquisitor because of the Mark on their hand. They sensed elven power of ancient and was protecting itself. We know all the elves are disappearing so I kind of jokingly headcanoned that we took out part of Solas' army in the Deep Roads by accident That sounds amazing! I loved that eerie yet beautiful setup with the Mythal statue, lyrium well and coffins. I wanted so badly to jump over the ledge and enter the area behind it. I died the first time I tried lol my Inquisitor looked like she had been set on fire.
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Post by ellawyn on Aug 12, 2016 19:30:04 GMT
The Sera being Andruil is one of most nonsensical theories I heard. Seriously there is so much evidence for this as Orsino being Falon'din. I think Solas was talking to her about elfy things because he couldn't stand her not identify herself as elf. Lavellan must somewhat accept their heritage as dalish, but Sera is actively against everything that make her an elf. Solas feels that he must fix it, hence their banter. As for her ears pointing to fade, her feelings when she looks through breach it's simply part of being elven. I bet our elven inquisitors feel the same but just accept it. Speaking about how spirits and Fade was shown to us players I completely agree. The DAI completely changed my view on them and many other things. I don't believe it, but I can see how you might get there. Some of the evidence people put out in support of the theory is kinda silly - the Sera's companion card being similar to Andruil's vallaslin, for instance. Like both incorporate a drawn bow of course they're going to have some vague similarities - but some of the evidence I think hints at Sera, while not being Andruil really, isn't just a normal elf either. The codex said she apparently picked up archery without really trying. Her greatest fear being the Nothing. Her nightmares. How she explicitly points out that her weird deja vu doesn't effect the Inquisitor, even if they're an elf. I mean, she straight up says "It's not an elfy thing. The Inquisitor isn't doing it." If Lavellan experienced any of these things, the game should've addressed them. It should've also addressed them in the cases of past elven companions, especially ones who don't seem to really care for their heritage like Fenris. Since it didn't, I think this really is something unique to Sera. Does that make her Andruil? Eeehh, that's still too much of a stretch for me. But I do think something's up with her - more than what's up with elves in general.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 19:33:30 GMT
If you get to know Sera she tells you the truth. How she was taught to use a weapon, her so-called family and meeting the HOF (which happens in DAO) so all of that sort of punches a whole in the Andruil theory. Her absolute fear of magic makes me wonder if during the events in Denerim she heard of the orphanage and what happened.
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Post by Jisandra on Aug 12, 2016 19:34:06 GMT
@ladyamell - I don't know how they stuff elven-titan drama in the next game. There is so much going on. The Weisshaupt, the Tevinter-Qunari war and Solas. But the fifth game? Who knows. I'm SURE that Solas recruited Abelas if we took him to the Arbor wilds. To us he says that he told him that Abelas should change the name, but if we translate the words we are left with some blood duty (it's not mine, I have read it somewhere). But as I said wouldn't take all sleeping ancient elves as a threat and kill them on sight. Some of them might even despise Solas fro what he done to their favourite (their owner) god. I love the lifting, they did to the Deep Roads. I simply hated them in Origin, but Descent has the best gameplay from all the DLC and with Trespasser they have one of most impressive sights and atmosphere in all DAI. I jumped there too. Then I treed with barrier. Then with this new mark power. I really wanted to see the coffins closer. ellawyn - Exactly. But I would attribute her strange feelings to the fact that for the most of her live she loved only in cites. She haven't visited ancient elven ruins or been to battlefields (I assume that, because why would she) and now, when she goes on missions with us she experiences new things, that are normal to our Lavellan, because she/he got accustomed to that. Imagine you are pearson who lived their whole life in lowlands and now you had to move to mountains. You fell vertigo whenever you look down, yet no one else does. I think the same is with Sera. As for the elfy feelings not addressed in previous games, only in DAI they started to develop elves as something different than humans with pointy ears, ancient lost history and isolationist tendencies. Now they really wanted to state that elves are diametrically different from humans in perceiving the world. Why not show this on elf who wants to be human? Her tombstone in my language localisation says "the nothingness". In the english is the nothing (I was surprised). But it's THE nothing not just nothing. I can't explain it easily. But she fears what is on the bottom of the abyss, the unknown. I'm so persistent because, even if I really don't like Sera, her character would lose if she would be confirmed something extraditionary. It would state that you have to be goddess or undeveloped mage to be exceptionally talented. Sera is the best being simple common elf, which struggle with her identity.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 19:39:07 GMT
@ladyamell - I don't know how they stuff elven-titan drama in the next game. There is so much going on. The Weisshaupt, the Tevinter-Qunari war and Solas. But the fifth game? Who knows. I'm SURE that Solas recruited Abelas if we took him to the Arbor wilds. To us he says that he told him that Abelas should change the name, but if we translate the words we are left with some blood duty (it's not mine, I have read it somewhere). But as I said wouldn't take all sleeping ancient elves as a threat and kill them on sight. Some of them might even despise Solas fro what he done to their favourite (their owner) god. I love the lifting, they did to the Deep Roads. I simply hated them in Origin, but Descent has the best gameplay from all the DLC and with Trespasser they have one of most impressive sights and atmosphere in all DAI. I jumped there too. Then I treed with barrier. Then with this new mark power. I really wanted to see the coffins closer. Oh the way this is going DA4 cannot cover all of this! It's way too much! I think he did too. He told him that there was a home for him if I recall? Yeah and this pic I found on Tumblr is so cool. It has Fen'Harel, Mythal and the coffins with lyrium. I keep thinking grand doors lie beyond the light! And it reminds me of Mythal's temple. Like she was having a new one made. The floor in that room is almost the same too.
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Post by ellawyn on Aug 12, 2016 19:44:03 GMT
What if Sandal is forsaken Sha-brytol? Myhal wasn't worshiped in Deep Roads. Her statues (and Fen'Harel's) in that lyrium mine in Trespasser, for me is just statement that it was her establishment. I don't know what to make of those coffins. Cole clearly states that something sleeps there, but maybe we are wrong to assume those are elves? I honestly don't have any theory. SWEET MYHAL I KNOW! The ancient egyptian tombs were frequently robbed already in antiquity. The priests from the late New Kingdom (the era of egyptian history before they have fallen to Alexander the Great) were aware of that and they simply relocated most of their revered god-kings from the past to plain cave, stealing their riches (gotta be practical), but securing their never ending sleep. What if elves, post Veil did the same? They started to age and saw their revered elders tombs/sleeping rooms desecrated by greedy humans and wanted to relocate them? Why no to the old, forgotten mining outpost (there weren't any darkspawn, and it was completely forsaken)? They could have limited access to crossroads, but Qunari easily recovered key to the mine eluvian so it couldn't be so difficult. I'm so sad now that we eventually killed them by flooding the place... I still feel somewhat guilty over the fact that it looks like we destroyed a bunch of sleeping someones. Wasn't any other choice of course, but geez. And nothing was ever really mentioned about it. Well then have I got good news for you, because those "coffins" in the Deep Roads were actually filled with lyrium, not sleeping elves. A lot of companion comments there explicitly say things like "That's a lot of lyrium" and such. Check it: corseque.tumblr.com/post/135486694637
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Post by lilyenachaos on Aug 12, 2016 19:44:29 GMT
@ladyamell - I don't know how they stuff elven-titan drama in the next game. There is so much going on. The Weisshaupt, the Tevinter-Qunari war and Solas. But the fifth game? Who knows. I'm SURE that Solas recruited Abelas if we took him to the Arbor wilds. To us he says that he told him that Abelas should change the name, but if we translate the words we are left with some blood duty (it's not mine, I have read it somewhere). But as I said wouldn't take all sleeping ancient elves as a threat and kill them on sight. Some of them might even despise Solas fro what he done to their favourite (their owner) god. I love the lifting, they did to the Deep Roads. I simply hated them in Origin, but Descent has the best gameplay from all the DLC and with Trespasser they have one of most impressive sights and atmosphere in all DAI. I jumped there too. Then I treed with barrier. Then with this new mark power. I really wanted to see the coffins closer. Oh the way this is going DA4 cannot cover all of this! It's way too much! I think he did too. He told him that there was a home for him if I recall? Yeah and this pic I found on Tumblr is so cool. It has Fen'Harel, Mythal and the coffins with lyrium. I keep thinking grand doors lie beyond the light! And it reminds me of Mythal's temple. Like she was having a new one made. The floor in that room is almost the same too. There truly are so many storylines that have branched off that I would love to explore. While I loved Descent, it did nothing but leave me with more questions about everything. I hope that they answer/complete all of these plots in a good way. Don't leave us hanging!
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Post by lilyenachaos on Aug 12, 2016 19:46:18 GMT
I still feel somewhat guilty over the fact that it looks like we destroyed a bunch of sleeping someones. Wasn't any other choice of course, but geez. And nothing was ever really mentioned about it. Well then have I got good news for you, because those "coffins" in the Deep Roads were actually filled with lyrium, not sleeping elves. A lot of companion comments there explicitly say things like "That's a lot of lyrium" and such. Check it: corseque.tumblr.com/post/135486694637Interesting. That does make me feel better P.S. I must do a really bad job of listening to party banter sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 19:52:41 GMT
Wait I got it! What if it's the lyrium they were digging for and sealed away when they got scared? That's where we find the mural about Mythal and the Titan too!
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Post by CapricornSun on Aug 12, 2016 19:58:11 GMT
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Post by Jisandra on Aug 12, 2016 20:02:13 GMT
I still feel somewhat guilty over the fact that it looks like we destroyed a bunch of sleeping someones. Wasn't any other choice of course, but geez. And nothing was ever really mentioned about it. Well then have I got good news for you, because those "coffins" in the Deep Roads were actually filled with lyrium, not sleeping elves. A lot of companion comments there explicitly say things like "That's a lot of lyrium" and such. Check it: corseque.tumblr.com/post/135486694637Haha! So I have dig to my ancient egypt lore for nothing. Well those looked too small for ancient elves (Ableas and co. are huge!). The first time I did this mission I haven't really thought about anything than sleeping elves, but in my recent playthrough I took Vivienne here and she indeed was talking about lyrium. It struck me as strange and now I know why. It's most likely true. But why would they keep the boxes in perfect rows? Maybe it's ancient elven thing Sweet Mythal, Solas as Alice is adorable in so many wrong ways. I don't even know how to feel about. It's good that he kept his glorious calves though.
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Post by NightSymphony on Aug 12, 2016 20:08:10 GMT
I...kind of want to see Solas as the Cheshire Cat now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 20:16:36 GMT
Jisandra Based on the Mythal statues, maybe it's like a protection or paying respects sort of setup? We know they harvested the stuff and maybe they sealed them there to return to later but when they awoke something that was very angry at them, Solas had them shut off access to the Deep Roads so the temple was never fully built. We know in those Roads was a room for Solas too. What I find familiar is this part of the codex I bolded (didn't we see this somewhere?): "Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!" For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy. A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic. Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast. A voice whispers: "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."
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Post by NightSymphony on Aug 12, 2016 20:22:19 GMT
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Post by ellawyn on Aug 12, 2016 20:27:02 GMT
ellawyn - Exactly. But I would attribute her strange feelings to the fact that for the most of her live she loved only in cites. She haven't visited ancient elven ruins or been to battlefields (I assume that, because why would she) and now, when she goes on missions with us she experiences new things, that are normal to our Lavellan, because she/he got accustomed to that. Imagine you are pearson who lived their whole life in lowlands and now you had to move to mountains. You fell vertigo whenever you look down, yet no one else does. I think the same is with Sera. As for the elfy feelings not addressed in previous games, only in DAI they started to develop elves as something different than humans with pointy ears, ancient lost history and isolationist tendencies. Now they really wanted to state that elves are diametrically different from humans in perceiving the world. Why not show this on elf who wants to be human? Her tombstone in my language localisation says "the nothingness". In the english is the nothing (I was surprised). But it's THE nothing not just nothing. I can't explain it easily. But she fears what is on the bottom of the abyss, the unknown. I'm so persistent because, even if I really don't like Sera, her character would lose if she would be confirmed something extraditionary. It would state that you have to be goddess or undeveloped mage to be exceptionally talented. Sera is the best being simple common elf, which struggle with her identity. Well, they've been establishing elves as sort of weird from the start - since Origins it's been true that elven/human couples can only bear human children, and way back before Inquisition was released, Gaider personally confirmed it's because elves have weird magic genetics. And I might be getting mixed up, but I believe DA2 established that elven blood is just better for blood magic. So I don't think that elves being diametrically different from humans is a recent development - there have always been very small hints. Inquisition/Trespasser just brought them to the front, because it was the first time we had a companion from Elvhenan, and because it was the first time we physically entered the Fade/Crossroads. But I can understand thinking Sera would lose something if she were confirmed to be... I dunno, a reincarnated Elvhen priestess or something. I still think it's too many loose ends to be explained away as just an elfy thing, however.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 20:33:42 GMT
Seeing as the Veil was made with elven magic, that's probably why all those elve's blood sacrifices allowed the magisters to enter the Fade.
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Post by Seven Zettabytes on Aug 12, 2016 21:33:18 GMT
If you get to know Sera she tells you the truth. How she was taught to use a weapon, her so-called family and meeting the HOF (which happens in DAO) so all of that sort of punches a whole in the Andruil theory. Her absolute fear of magic makes me wonder if during the events in Denerim she heard of the orphanage and what happened. That small painted box the Warden has to deliver for the Red Jenny quest (that Sera played with as a child) is picked up in Irving's chamber in the Circle Tower, so it's possibly a magical item. Maybe there was something in there that really scared her. I do like the orphanage idea much better, though.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Aug 12, 2016 21:44:52 GMT
I hope that valta makes a return as well. If we're not gonna get an infodump from an elf that was around way back when, I'd settle for getting it from a titan. I just want a primary source who doesn't speak in cryptic for once. Though, the Titan likely would talk cryptically cus of its more alien nature, maybe Valta can interpret. lol
I was thinking about he epilogue of Trespasser today and I now have a real fear that the next game is going to begin 10+ years in the future. Just given the timeframe they reference in the slides, talking about what the characters are doing for years down the road. I hope they retcon that aspect. It would really beggar belief to me that the basement team takes 5 to 10 years to actually find these "people that Solas doesn't know", not to mention it would kinda hurt the urgency and threat level of Solas to take that long to act on this plan to drop the veil. I mean, what's he waiting for? Sozin's Comet?
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Post by ellawyn on Aug 12, 2016 23:15:45 GMT
You know, reading modern AU fanfic of Solas is so weird because... there's just so much about him that doesn't transfer at all.
Like his attitude about the Dalish. In-game it's still kinda racist, but it also makes sense. The Dalish didn't turn out as he hoped they would when he left, they demonize and invalidate the struggles and sacrifices he made, they claim to be experts on his culture and history while getting it all wrong, and outright rejecting his attempts to inform them. Maybe it's not right of him to unilaterally dismiss them, but at the same time, it's understandable that he has.
But in modern AUs it's just like "The Dalish are trash and I hate them because one was mean to me once."
Not to mention the whole set-up with the Evanuris and Elvhenan. I still haven't seen a modern AU give a very good counterpart to that.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Aug 12, 2016 23:46:15 GMT
Getting caught up on the thread again... Back on page 38 people were talking about Titans maybe giving rise to spirits who then turned into elves and turned against the Titans, and someone brought up Forgotten Ones, and I had a sudden thought - what if the Titans are the Forgotten Ones?
Probably they aren't. But... what if they are? No one remembered them until Valta, really. And there's evidence in The Descent that the Shaperate's records were altered long ago. What if some darn elf (or group of elves) had something to do with that?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 23:46:42 GMT
If you get to know Sera she tells you the truth. How she was taught to use a weapon, her so-called family and meeting the HOF (which happens in DAO) so all of that sort of punches a whole in the Andruil theory. Her absolute fear of magic makes me wonder if during the events in Denerim she heard of the orphanage and what happened. That small painted box the Warden has to deliver for the Red Jenny quest (that Sera played with as a child) is picked up in Irving's chamber in the Circle Tower, so it's possibly a magical item. Maybe there was something in there that really scared her. I do like the orphanage idea much better, though. I always thought it was odd I gave a little giggling girl a painted box found in the Circle Tower.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 23:54:07 GMT
Getting caught up on the thread again... Back on page 38 people were talking about Titans maybe giving rise to spirits who then turned into elves and turned against the Titans, and someone brought up Forgotten Ones, and I had a sudden thought - what if the Titans are the Forgotten Ones? Probably they aren't. But... what if they are? No one remembered them until Valta, really. And there's evidence in The Descent that the Shaperate's records were altered long ago. What if some darn elf (or group of elves) had something to do with that? I've put this theory forward multiple times, but it always gets rejected on the basis that Geldauran, Anaris and Daern'athal are believed to be outcast Evanuris, and are called the Forgotten Ones. The only thing we really know about them from legend, other than cults for them still exist, and that Geldauran seemed to have been imprisoned for a time in the Arbor Wilds, is that Solas supposedly locked them up at the same time as the Evanuris. We have no idea what they looked like, what their real function was, or how they interacted with the Evanuris... or for that matter, what being "Forgotten" really means in Elvhen culture. They could have been working for the Titans for all we know, which certainly would have brought them into conflict with the other Evanuris who wanted to conquer them. I definitely think they have ties to the Titans.
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Post by Elessara on Aug 13, 2016 0:05:08 GMT
That small painted box the Warden has to deliver for the Red Jenny quest (that Sera played with as a child) is picked up in Irving's chamber in the Circle Tower, so it's possibly a magical item. Maybe there was something in there that really scared her. I do like the orphanage idea much better, though. I always thought it was odd I gave a little giggling girl a painted box found in the Circle Tower. We don't really know that the painted box she references is actually the painted box you pick up in Irving's chamber. It's possible it's the same box but also possible that it isn't. Also, the Warden didn't give the painted box to a small child, they went to a door in Denerim, knocked on the door and gave the box to someone who isn't described.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 13, 2016 0:23:37 GMT
I think the whole 'painted boxes' Sera mentions was simply an easter egg with no further implications to the plot. Same with the box in DAO - from the looks of it it never was anything other than a small fetch quest.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 0:29:22 GMT
I always thought it was odd I gave a little giggling girl a painted box found in the Circle Tower. We don't really know that the painted box she references is actually the painted box you pick up in Irving's chamber. It's possible it's the same box but also possible that it isn't. Also, the Warden didn't give the painted box to a small child, they went to a door in Denerim, knocked on the door and gave the box to someone who isn't described. You never heard the child giggle? You always hear her when you give the box to her and when you exit and enter the warehouse or Wonders of Thedas you can hear the girl giggling a bit madly.
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