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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 29, 2023 13:15:42 GMT
1. Solas claimed that his plan will benefit modern elves. I was surprised because, well, they are "not his people". And it is hard to know for certain that he was telling the truth or just selling a false promise to get Charter to join him. I'm not convinced Charter is a modern elf. Her origins are obscure. According to WoT2, prior to joining the Inquisition she went by the pseudonym the Black Hart and the in-world writer of her entry suggests that was also an alias. What is clear is that she clearly covered her tracks so no one knows her true identity. What Solas says to her is "What I am doing will save this world and, those like you, the elves who still remain, may even find it better when it is done". There are two aspects to this speech I have always found strange. Firstly, he claims his action will save this world. That seems in complete contradiction to his statement in Trespasser when he says he will save the elven people even if this world must die. So, has his plan altered from when he spoke with the Inquisitor? Secondly, he says " elves like you" to Charter and seems to imply that he has no doubt she will survive. So, how does he categorise her? We know she is not Dalish, so is she a city elf? Thus, is it only the Dalish he referred to when he says Lavellan's people will perish? That does seems strange, bearing in mind that Abelas recognised neither Lavellan (a Dalish), nor Sera (a city elf) as his people but did acknowledge Solas as such. This is what led me to believe that Charter is an ancient elf who has gone "native" so to speak among the modern races. That being the case, when she asks him for her life, it isn't just because of her presence at the meeting but because she knows how he has dealt in the past with defectors like Felassan. To my mind, that is the only explanation that makes any sense in view of his previous conversation with Lavellan.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 29, 2023 13:28:00 GMT
2. The elves in fancy armor that killed those dwarves with arrows. At first I thought they were ancient elves, but one had a Fereldan accent and the other, Dalish. But neither had vallaslin. Maybe Solas removes it from those that have earned his trust? I say that because that Dalish Fen'harel agent who spoke to the dwarven assassin still had the tattoos. Or perhaps he simply allows them that choice as he did with Lavellan. I still think they were probably ancient elves. The one with a Ferelden accent had probably adopted it to blend in whilst operating among city elves, whilst he says that whilst the other has the accent of a Dalish, he sounds more formal, as though "reading from a poem". That suggests he speaks in iambic pentameter, like Solas, so either the dwarf thinks a "Welsh" accent sounds like an "Irish" one or may be just that a strange accent must mean a Dalish, but he does acknowledge that the form of speech is not like a Dalish. Now the earlier one who approached them with the plan probably was genuine Dalish. The dwarf makes no mention of his accent or form of speech being in any way different from regular Dalish. So, probably he was a Dalish convert to Fen'Harel's cultists or may be his story was true and he was inspired by a dream. I can easily suggest who might have been responsible for that. The concern the other elves showed for him may well have been gratitude and genuine regret at his passing because they were hoping to recruit him.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 29, 2023 13:40:14 GMT
3. He apparently regrets telling the Inquisitor about his evil master plan. He called it a moment of weakness. That was interesting. I'm not entirely convinced by this. He was so careful to avoid giving anything away whilst in the Inquisition, deliberately involves us in dealing with the Qunari (which he was clearly able to deal with himself) and then blurts out his plan to even a hostile Inquisitor. Apart from a desire to mock the latter for thinking they had saved the world and the way he had fooled them, I really can't see him potentially jeopardising his plan by succumbing to a rush of conscience. 4. "When you report back to the Inquisitor…” His voice faltered. “Say that I am sorry.” His voice faltered. I can tell Patrick Weekes was thinking of the Solas romance when he wrote that, even if it can't be said openly because he can't be too specific about the Inquisitor. It certainly doesn't apply to a hostile Inquisitor. Why on earth would Solas be apologising to them now when he was totally unapologetic in Trespasser? Why apologise yet again to a friendly Inquisitor/lover? It is empty rhetoric once again because if he was really sorry he wouldn't do it, or at the very least give the explanation he denied us before as to why the world has to die to save the elves. Bearing in mind he now says he is going to save this world, what is he apologising for? Killing everyone who isn't an elf?
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 29, 2023 13:45:44 GMT
5. The giant wolf in the Fade reminds me of Gervaise's theory on that being a separate persona. I think that was just Solas in a badass form and I really hope that will be part of the final boss battle in DA:D. That is my hope too, that in order to defeat him we will have to confront his wolf form in the Fade. That would be awesome, especially as it would seem he will have a cohort of spirits on his side. I wonder if it will be like Baldurs' Gate 2. There we defeat Irenicus in the real world, only to be whisked off to the hells to confront him there with his demon allies. In that case, the reason was he had part of our soul, which is why we had to defeat him on both planes of existence to get it back, whereas with Solas it will be the fact that he is a split soul and cannot be defeated in the Waking World so long as the Dread Wolf exists in the Fade.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 29, 2023 14:53:15 GMT
1. Solas claimed that his plan will benefit modern elves. I was surprised because, well, they are "not his people". And it is hard to know for certain that he was telling the truth or just selling a false promise to get Charter to join him. I'm not convinced Charter is a modern elf. Her origins are obscure. According to WoT2, prior to joining the Inquisition she went by the pseudonym the Black Hart and the in-world writer of her entry suggests that was also an alias. What is clear is that she clearly covered her tracks so no one knows her true identity. What Solas says to her is "What I am doing will save this world and, those like you, the elves who still remain, may even find it better when it is done". There are two aspects to this speech I have always found strange. Firstly, he claims his action will save this world. That seems in complete contradiction to his statement in Trespasser when he says he will save the elven people even if this world must die. So, has his plan altered from when he spoke with the Inquisitor? Secondly, he says " elves like you" to Charter and seems to imply that he has no doubt she will survive. So, how does he categorise her? We know she is not Dalish, so is she a city elf? Thus, is it only the Dalish he referred to when he says Lavellan's people will perish? That does seems strange, bearing in mind that Abelas recognised neither Lavellan (a Dalish), nor Sera (a city elf) as his people but did acknowledge Solas as such. This is what led me to believe that Charter is an ancient elf who has gone "native" so to speak among the modern races. That being the case, when she asks him for her life, it isn't just because of her presence at the meeting but because she knows how he has dealt in the past with defectors like Felassan. To my mind, that is the only explanation that makes any sense in view of his previous conversation with Lavellan. - Well, you could say the same of any bard or spy in Thedas. They often do use different aliases and their past is only known to a select few. I'd also point out that Charter doesn't even have her own codex in the game, likely because she wasn't a big enough character before the comics came along. However, Solas did include her among the elves who will remain, so I won't be all that surprised if she does turn out to be an ancient elf who has embraced the modern world. But who knows? There might be a slim chance that lifting the Veil will benefit all elves after all, as the Solas apologists have been claiming all this time. - Just before that line about saving this world, he also tells Charter he is going to end this world. So I'd say that he wasn't telling a different version of his plan, but merely phrased it as though the world that will be destroyed and the one that will be created were just the same. Like someone who says that the Earth will be destroyed and rebuilt.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 29, 2023 15:26:52 GMT
- Just before that line about saving this world, he also tells Charter he is going to end this world. So I'd say that he wasn't telling a different version of his plan, but merely phrased it as though the world that will be destroyed and the one that will be created were just the same. Like someone who says that the Earth will be destroyed and rebuilt. It may be the problem with him using the word "world", which can mean both the current civilisations and the actual Waking World they exist in. No doubt, the actual fabric of the world will remain the same even if the altered reality with/without the Veil will be fundamentally different, although the breaking up of the entire landscape when Cory opened his hole in the Veil again would suggest otherwise. Technically no one in that immediate area should have survived the raising up of that fragmented landscape and then its sudden return to earth, whilst the shock waves of the latter should have had repercussions over a much wider area, so it is hard to know what he meant really. However, I do think it may have something to do with red lyrium. That seemed to have been locked away safely but has now been released on the surface and can multiply freely. What with the Blight transmitted by the darkspawn and this new source of taint, the world is pretty much doomed without some action to cleanse it. If that is the case, then wholesale destruction as a result of the cleansing is an unfortunate by-product of it but unavoidable because otherwise the world would die anyway, or at least be uninhabitable by non tainted creatures. Still, if that is the reason he feels he has to go ahead to save his people, why can't he just tell us that is the case? Then at least we would have something to go on when trying to come up with a less destructive alternative in order to convince him not to advance his plan. It will be annoying if they make him so frustratingly reticent merely to advance the story they want to tell, when it is not something that he needs to keep secret. How would knowing why this world has to die get in the way of his plan? Yet, that seemed the reason he withheld the information from us.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 29, 2023 16:13:48 GMT
3. He apparently regrets telling the Inquisitor about his evil master plan. He called it a moment of weakness. That was interesting. I'm not entirely convinced by this. He was so careful to avoid giving anything away whilst in the Inquisition, deliberately involves us in dealing with the Qunari (which he was clearly able to deal with himself) and then blurts out his plan to even a hostile Inquisitor. Apart from a desire to mock the latter for thinking they had saved the world and the way he had fooled them, I really can't see him potentially jeopardising his plan by succumbing to a rush of conscience. 4. "When you report back to the Inquisitor…” His voice faltered. “Say that I am sorry.” His voice faltered. I can tell Patrick Weekes was thinking of the Solas romance when he wrote that, even if it can't be said openly because he can't be too specific about the Inquisitor. It certainly doesn't apply to a hostile Inquisitor. Why on earth would Solas be apologising to them now when he was totally unapologetic in Trespasser? Why apologise yet again to a friendly Inquisitor/lover? It is empty rhetoric once again because if he was really sorry he wouldn't do it, or at the very least give the explanation he denied us before as to why the world has to die to save the elves. Bearing in mind he now says he is going to save this world, what is he apologising for? Killing everyone who isn't an elf? I'm not sure what to make of it. While he has concealed information even while speaking to a romanced Lavellan, it is also true that he almost told her everything in that cutscene where he breaks up with her. The occasional slip due to an emotional impulse isn't entirely impossible (though he is very good at avoiding it). Still... assuming that he lied to Charter about having revealed his plan in a moment of weakness, what would be the benefit? As for him being sorry, my best guess would be that he isn't apologising for what he is about to do. He is apologising for the sadness and hurt he's inflicted upon the Inquisitor as a result. Of course, there is an obvious moral contradiction, but that is the part he truly feels sorry for.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 29, 2023 16:46:28 GMT
Speaking of Solas changing his wording depending on the person he’s speaking to, he changes what he says yet again in the latest Mussing comic. Varric,
You need not have worried. The artifact was never in danger of falling into Venatori hands. I hope that in time you give up this pursuit. What must be done will be done cautiously, and I will limit damage as best I can. I have no wish to be the villain in one of your stories, but interfering in matters you do not understand can only make things worse.
Solas
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 29, 2023 17:57:31 GMT
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 29, 2023 18:06:16 GMT
Also going to post this one on the Missing thread Varric, You need not have worried. The artifact was never in danger of falling into Venatori hands. I hope that in time you give up this pursuit. What must be done will be done cautiously, and I will limit damage as best I can. I have no wish to be the villain in one of your stories, but interfering in matters you do not understand can only make things worse. Solas This is curious. It sounds like he will make modifications to his plan to limit the damage, although once again seems to be taking all the responsibility for this on himself, so not getting any critical input that might point out potential flaws in his plan. Also, as I thought, the Crucious Stone was just a misdirection on the part of the writers. I just don't understand, if he wants them to stop following him, he should ensure there are no clues to follow, or was this latest trail just test to see how determined Varric and Co are?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 29, 2023 18:49:39 GMT
Also going to post this one on the Missing thread Varric, You need not have worried. The artifact was never in danger of falling into Venatori hands. I hope that in time you give up this pursuit. What must be done will be done cautiously, and I will limit damage as best I can. I have no wish to be the villain in one of your stories, but interfering in matters you do not understand can only make things worse. Solas This is curious. It sounds like he will make modifications to his plan to limit the damage, although once again seems to be taking all the responsibility for this on himself, so not getting any critical input that might point out potential flaws in his plan. Also, as I thought, the Crucious Stone was just a misdirection on the part of the writers. I just don't understand, if he wants them to stop following him, he should ensure there are no clues to follow, or was this latest trail just test to see how determined Varric and Co are? I think it’s more he’s just saying that to try to assuage Varric and thus the Inquisition to get them not to focus as hard on him as they have been. We already know his “limiting the damage” line is bogus since we’ve seen what’s happened in Arlathan and his plan has the whole world going through at the absolute least that meaning it will still kill countless innocent people. Plus as I said before, the rest seems to be him deluding himself that he’s doing the right thing or what must be done to soothe his conscience and stroke his ego instead of the reality which is him committing genocide.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 30, 2023 7:54:17 GMT
Musings here: I think it’s more he’s just saying that to try to assuage Varric and thus the Inquisition to get them not to focus as hard on him as they have been. Or actually it is just the writers trying to backtrack somewhat on his plan because it did present him in such a terrible light? I've always maintained that I found the option to redeem Solas/save him from himself was gobsmacking considering he had just admitted that he was going to destroy the world, or at least the majority of its population, and no one else mattered apart from his people. It seemed to me the priority should always be to stop him and once that was achieved, then you could debate about what to do with him, if he wasn't already dead (which seems even more pertinent if the Inquisitor is not going to be the one in the field going forward). Yet, they insisted on this binary choice that clearly was meant to present the "stop him at all costs" as the ruthless option that only someone who already disliked Solas would take. The "adjustment" to how he presented his plan in Tevinter Nights suggested PW was already having doubts about how their beloved Solas came across in Trespasser. Now it was hinted that the plan was necessary to save the current world, even though this contradicted his previous statement as to why he told the Inquisitor his plan. Nevertheless, he still admitted that his plan would result in the death of all but a few elves "who remained" after the destruction. Now he seems to be suggesting that it will be possible for him to "limit the damage". Even if he is telling the truth and is not deluded in his assertion, because let's face it he didn't anticipate the destruction of creating the Veil (or did he?), why is he only saying this now and why would he expect anyone to believe him given his previous track record of half truths and deception? I also find the whole Varric/Harding hunting for Solas rather implausible as well. Where are they getting their clues from as to his whereabouts if not from Solas himself? I still don't understand why they thought he had anything to do with the disappearances from Marnas Pell or why they would look for him in the Deep Roads. They only found the clue to Vyrantium because apparently he left his hideout unguarded and unwarded, so any random stranger could walk in. He has control of the Crossroads. Why wouldn't he make his hideout there? Then when they get to Vyrantium, once again he leaves evidence there of his presence (there are other ways of killing people other than petrification) and doesn't remove the clues as to his next possible destination. Now if they had heard of strange phenomena in Arlathan Forest whilst in Kirkwall, then it would have made sense they would go there seeking Solas because, you know, weird magical stuff is what you associate with him. Instead apparently they already knew something weird was happening up there but instead chose to head to Marnas Pell, or are we to understand they heard about this from the crew of the ship they traveled on? In which case, how would they know? Remember the forest has been pretty much ringed with Qunari since before the weirdness started happening, particularly on the Tevinter side. Anyway, now they are headed for Minrathous. Any particular reason for this apart from someone thought they saw Solas there? If he knows Varric is being somewhat persistent in looking for him, wouldn't he take extra care not to give away his position? This is why I think he says one thing but does another. So he tells Varric not to follow him but then ensures that he leaves a trail for him to follow, which presumably will become our trail in game.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 30, 2023 14:18:32 GMT
While the most rational thing to do is to never believe a single word from Solas, it may be necessary to consider Patrick Weekes' point of view. He obviously intends him to be a sympathetic character (to a degree), so at least some part of what Solas says about feelings of sympathy or regret must be true.
So that means that occasionally, his contradictions may be simply a sign that he is a confused and delusional individual. And yes, sometimes he is lying to your face.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 30, 2023 18:31:57 GMT
So that means that occasionally, his contradictions may be simply a sign that he is a confused and delusional individual. And yes, sometimes he is lying to your face. Actually PW says that he rarely outright lies, which is why I found Varric calling him the god of lies so peculiar because that is not how he is known to the Dalish. What Solas far more frequently does is evades or changes the subject when he doesn't want to tell you something. Or he equivocates, making a statement to your face but qualifies it will a clarification in his head, or in the statement itself, so that it is misleading rather than an outright lie. For example, he tells the Inquisitor that there is nothing in lore to link the Old Gods to his people (or something like that). The qualifier there is "in lore" because that is perfectly true. Neither in Dalish, nor in human lore has any link been made. However, should we subsequently discover they are related in some way, he would deny he lied because he only said "in lore". Another example is how if you ask how he knows something, he invariably says "I saw it in the Fade". Now that may be true and it is possible to see what he asserts in the Fade if you find the right spirit but actually the majority of the time, the reason he knows something, at least when it comes to the ancient elves, is because he actually witnessed it. There is also the occasion he is discussing with Blackwall about Val Royeaux: " The Val Royeaux market was once nothing but tents of oils, leather, and mud. Filled with ragged humans selling strings of beads made of bone." Blackwall asks if this was in the Fade and Solas doesn't give a straight yes but says how he left quickly because of the smell. May be it was just in the Fade but I'd hazard a guess he was actually there in person, bearing in mind that humans were around before the Veil but would have been primitive barbarians. I also wasn't aware you can have smelly vision in the Fade.
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Pathfinding my way through life.
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Post by DragonEffect on Mar 30, 2023 18:50:54 GMT
I saw some mentions about the unknown "Moon Men" in the thread and found an interesting Codex in the Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts quest concerning the issue. It talks about a play by an obscure Orlesian author with a very curious description: "The Setting of the Light takes place in the mysterious city of Demhe, implied to be another world that somehow becomes our own moon."Here are the Codexes: It could be connected to the weird Codexes from JoH or not. Either way, it's too telling to ignore. Might the origin of the moon men myth be purely fictional? Was it born from an Orlesian play? Is it just the game joking about conspiracy theories? Or is there some truth to it in Thedosian lore that we are unaware of?
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 30, 2023 22:45:57 GMT
The ancient elves had magic and a liminal space travel network; and Mythal *is* associated with the moon. Its not out of the realm of possibility that there is a base or city in crazy places, like the moon or the bottom of the ocean or wherever, that the ancients used to have access to and that might have lived on in myths and stories.
Is that "Lumiere Bartlet" or his play a meta reference to anything?
Interesting that one character in that particular play is so adamant "The dawn will not come." and then our Inquisitorial troupe's sing-a-long number (and main musical motif in the OST) is "The Dawn Will Come". No idea what it means, but it could imply there is some import to that story since its directly being juxtaposed to a main theme of the game. Its a roughly 500 year old story, too. Implying that maybe it and the hymn* we sing in the mountains after Haven have some common origin or connection?
* I say "hymn" b/c the reverend mother is the one who starts it and every Andrastian in the crowd new it enough to sing along. So its always been my headcanon its actually a widespread church hymn. The Andrastian version of Amazing Grace or something.
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Pathfinding my way through life.
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Post by DragonEffect on Mar 31, 2023 1:36:20 GMT
The ancient elves had magic and a liminal space travel network; and Mythal *is* associated with the moon. Its not out of the realm of possibility that there is a base or city in crazy places, like the moon or the bottom of the ocean or wherever, that the ancients used to have access to and that might have lived on in myths and stories. That's entirely possible. Ancient elves did use eluvians to get everywhere. Also, I wonder if Thedas is a multi-layered world rather than a spherical one. I'm entertaining this theory because the Titan we visit in Descent seems illuminated by natural light. The world also looks upside down in it. Almost as if we had stepped into another world, with another source of light. As in, we're still in Thedas, but not the Thedas we know. If Thedas were multi-layered, then somehow it would be possible to get to the moon, which would just be another world, possibly connected by the Crossroads and only accessible through very specific means, such as eluvians. I tried doing some research, but nothing came up. However, his name does sound like it was inspired by some obscure classic writer of sorts, doesn't it? That's a very interesting parallel. Not sure if it was intentional, but still very interesting!
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Post by dayze on Mar 31, 2023 2:23:45 GMT
The ancient elves had magic and a liminal space travel network; and Mythal *is* associated with the moon. Its not out of the realm of possibility that there is a base or city in crazy places, like the moon or the bottom of the ocean or wherever, that the ancients used to have access to and that might have lived on in myths and stories. Is that "Lumiere Bartlet" or his play a meta reference to anything? Interesting that one character in that particular play is so adamant "The dawn will not come." and then our Inquisitorial troupe's sing-a-long number (and main musical motif in the OST) is "The Dawn Will Come". No idea what it means, but it could imply there is some import to that story since its directly being juxtaposed to a main theme of the game. Its a roughly 500 year old story, too. Implying that maybe it and the hymn* we sing in the mountains after Haven have some common origin or connection? * I say "hymn" b/c the reverend mother is the one who starts it and every Andrastian in the crowd new it enough to sing along. So its always been my headcanon its actually a widespread church hymn. The Andrastian version of Amazing Grace or something. So among the various takes on divinity we get "What if God was an Astronaut?' as well.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 31, 2023 7:02:56 GMT
So that means that occasionally, his contradictions may be simply a sign that he is a confused and delusional individual. And yes, sometimes he is lying to your face. Actually PW says that he rarely outright lies, which is why I found Varric calling him the god of lies so peculiar because that is not how he is known to the Dalish. What Solas far more frequently does is evades or changes the subject when he doesn't want to tell you something. Or he equivocates, making a statement to your face but qualifies it will a clarification in his head, or in the statement itself, so that it is misleading rather than an outright lie. There’s a word for this. It’s called lying. Lies of omission specifically, which are still lies. Patrick may think that’s not lying, but they’re wrong. It’s why in court for example you don’t just swear to tell the truth but the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That oath covers all three kinds of lies. To your musings to me, yeah all those are examples of why I’m not having much if any faith in the writing for this game.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 31, 2023 19:10:07 GMT
God, what I wouldn't give to see Briala and Lavellan working together post-Trespasser, articulating political strategies to improve the lives of the People. Trading information gathered by their agents and exchanging secret letters.
I am completely absorbed by all the possibilities for her future. I think about how comtesse Lavellan could sponsor young elves who want to get into an university or follow another career. Or alternatively, join the human-elven led council of Wycome to help them keep the peace.
I also ask myself if the former Inquisitor will be revered among the nobles for her deeds, or will they gradually begin to look upon her with disdain because now she is just a knife-ear who's fallen from grace. After all, she no longer has the army and political influence that forced humans to respect her.
sigh... with luck, maybe there will be a Hawke style cameo. Not ideal, all know, but it provides us with more information than codex text. We would be able to interview her (or him) a little, as we could do with the Champion in Skyhold.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 31, 2023 19:12:32 GMT
By the way, I don't believe in the servant notes in Trespasser that suggest that Briala would backstab the Inquisitor if necessary. DAI insists in portraying her as a snake, but I know from The Masked Empire that her ideals are genuine and she would not betray an ally who never let her down.
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Post by xerrai on Apr 1, 2023 5:52:06 GMT
Actually PW says that he rarely outright lies, which is why I found Varric calling him the god of lies so peculiar because that is not how he is known to the Dalish. What Solas far more frequently does is evades or changes the subject when he doesn't want to tell you something. Or he equivocates, making a statement to your face but qualifies it will a clarification in his head, or in the statement itself, so that it is misleading rather than an outright lie. There’s a word for this. It’s called lying. Lies of omission specifically, which are still lies. Patrick may think that’s not lying, but they’re wrong. It’s why in court for example you don’t just swear to tell the truth but the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That oath covers all three kinds of lies. To your musings to me, yeah all those are examples of why I’m not having much if any faith in the writing for this game. They may be lies in conventional definition....but I also think it is excellent that those aspects of certain types of lies are being explored. It just gives me more to chew on with characters. At what point is a lie, in fact, a partial truth? Which lies are full lies and which ones are partial? Which ones reveal otherwise never-before-seen truths and which ones are just made up? Can 'lies' be worth more than a faulty but earnestly believed truth that could, in fact, not be true at all? A world where all shades of truth are explored seems like the prime place to explore its supposed opposite--especially in a world like Dragon Age where several truths are revealed to be lies later on. So yeah, bring on the 'lies'! Lies for everyone!
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 1, 2023 8:05:31 GMT
I also feel that Solas has his own perspective on the truth (as people often do) which skews the way something is presented. Take the example of when he describes the magical wonders of ancient Elvenhan. Given his description, which in hindsight is clearly affected by his guilt in causing the destruction, it is hard not to feel regret at what was lost. However, he also later condemns the rulers who were responsible for these marvels. In the description of the Grand Sonellium thousands of elves are employed in its construction. Whether their compliance was enforced as slaves or gained willingly as worshipers of Sylaise, the fact is it was an Evanuris who enabled its production. Solas thinks he can separate one from the other, just as he does with blood magic, but may be such magical wonders as he described were only possible because of the control that the Evanuris exercised. In fact, who is to say that their magic may not have been involved in some way with maintaining them, so it was not just the raising of the Veil which destroyed them but the loss of the Evanuris.
Now Felassan makes a more honest appraisal. When Briala says: "It must have been beautiful, if they had the power to craft the world between the eluvians", after encouraging her to imagine still more the wonders of the empire, he then brings her back to reality with a bump: "Then tell me, da'len, who scrubbed the floors?" He then insists that for all its glory, it was no different to the world she has known as a servant. There were those who ruled and those who were abused.
This is why I question just what Solas thinks he is trying to restore because the "world of the elves" was not some magical paradise and the only real difference between the realities was that a select group of elves ruled over it instead of humans. He is clearly aware that unfettered magic can be a threat to all and that those with the greatest magical power will tend to abuse it, so what exactly is he hoping to gain by restoring that reality? Better to use the wisdom he has gained from bitter experience to work for a different system in the current reality and save the elves that way.
Of course, this assertion is entirely based on the reason he gave the Inquisitor for wanting to do this and when questioned further about his motives, he avoided giving a straight answer, so whether you call it lies or evasion, I'm pretty sure he didn't tell us the "whole truth".
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Post by Iddy on Apr 1, 2023 12:00:40 GMT
I also feel that Solas has his own perspective on the truth (as people often do) which skews the way something is presented. Take the example of when he describes the magical wonders of ancient Elvenhan. Given his description, which in hindsight is clearly affected by his guilt in causing the destruction, it is hard not to feel regret at what was lost. However, he also later condemns the rulers who were responsible for these marvels. In the description of the Grand Sonellium thousands of elves are employed in its construction. Whether their compliance was enforced as slaves or gained willingly as worshipers of Sylaise, the fact is it was an Evanuris who enabled its production. Solas thinks he can separate one from the other, just as he does with blood magic, but may be such magical wonders as he described were only possible because of the control that the Evanuris exercised. In fact, who is to say that their magic may not have been involved in some way with maintaining them, so it was not just the raising of the Veil which destroyed them but the loss of the Evanuris. Now Felassan makes a more honest appraisal. When Briala says: "It must have been beautiful, if they had the power to craft the world between the eluvians", after encouraging her to imagine still more the wonders of the empire, he then brings her back to reality with a bump: "Then tell me, da'len, who scrubbed the floors?" He then insists that for all its glory, it was no different to the world she has known as a servant. There were those who ruled and those who were abused. This is why I question just what Solas thinks he is trying to restore because the "world of the elves" was not some magical paradise and the only real difference between the realities was that a select group of elves ruled over it instead of humans. He is clearly aware that unfettered magic can be a threat to all and that those with the greatest magical power will tend to abuse it, so what exactly is he hoping to gain by restoring that reality? Better to use the wisdom he has gained from bitter experience to work for a different system in the current reality and save the elves that way. Of course, this assertion is entirely based on the reason he gave the Inquisitor for wanting to do this and when questioned further about his motives, he avoided giving a straight answer, so whether you call it lies or evasion, I'm pretty sure he didn't tell us the "whole truth". He seems to believe that with the Evanuris gone (and he has "plans" to keep it that way), the elves will be able to enjoy all benefits from old Elvhenan with none of the oppression.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 1, 2023 13:24:59 GMT
He seems to believe that with the Evanuris gone (and he has "plans" to keep it that way), the elves will be able to enjoy all benefits from old Elvhenan with none of the oppression. I cannot believe he is that naive, given what he has witnessed in both the mage and non-mage ruled human empires. However, he does seem to have this idea that there should be no limits to freedom, so may be he is prepared to take that risk.
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