The Blanketfort (crying and throwing up) - The Official Solas Thread [Spoilers]

Imprisoned in the golden city?
XD

.. I'm really going to feel sorry for Cassandra (since I made her Divine) if that being the case.

Imagine all your life believing that the Golden City is the seat of the Maker.. Only to find out later that it's actualy a maximum security prison built by elves.

Also makes sense why Solas doesn't want Corypheus to re-breach that place again, in fear he might accidently set those crazies free this time, or weakening the nature of the prison it self, giving the Evanuris a room to wrigle.

But not really sure if the Evanuris is being trap together in 1 place (but different containment cells).. or imprisoned individually anywhere across Thedas?

Hmn...

The biggest revelation to me in game, I think, the one I didn'T see coming at all, was the veil. We were taught from the first game one that the veil was just a thing that exits in the world of Thedas. People might not be quite sure how it works, but that's been the case for many natural phenomas in the real world too. So, to learn it's an artificial construct, and the work of one single, powerful, elf? Dang, talk about whiplash! And then there's this codex about how the veil is less a physical, or even magical barrier and more like... having your eyes? Being blind to part of the world? Did Solas find a way to manipulate perception for everyone and everything on Thedas, including animals and Spirits? That makes little sense to me, what with the tears and the breack and the rest of the world-building. So, I'm still confused on WTH the veil is anyway.

Even that seems more like a working theory the Qunari have than any kind of objective truth. So we have several theory but not clear understanding (although one of those theory might end up true. The vibration one seems more plausible than most). I hope we have the opportunity to ask Solas about it and get an explanation of what he did.

Well dang... hadn't thought of it that way but: tricking the world into believing the veil exist? Because the divide isn't actually a thing that is there apart from in people's mind? That's some crazy shit and I LOVE the concept. Would that mean that to "tear down teh veil", Solas would have to go into the fade to reach into everyone's mind and remove their blinder, so to speak? Unfortunately, the appearance of things like the breach, which are quite apparently THERE physically, would seem to run counter to this theory. But still... that would be some really nice plot twist. 

The idea is very interesting, particularly because of Solas personality, I agree. But I have a doubt, I don't know exactly why, but I thought whatever Solas needs to do, he needs to do it from this side? Did I make up this up? It's perfectly possible Thinking about it I only remember a line from Cole, than can actually mean anything

Moondreamer IIRC, is the Inquisitor the one that says that the Veil is a vibration, is the arcane knowledge perk, it's one the things you can tell IB to distract him while Krem is moving the dragon skull. Not sure if that makes it more objective, the arcane knowledge perk sometimes gives you the chance to say things as simple as "magic can be used to heal" (oh, really? I needed to study magc for years to say that?) but with the well of sorrows it seems it gives you a good if not too deep insight... I'm not sure how much value things that come out of it have

DA4 Lore drop: Ghilan'nain created the first Halla using children as reagents.

Yes...do it Bioware...do it.

*walks in*

*gets cross eyed from complicated fan theory*

*walks out*

I've also wondered if/how Solas duped an entire world for generations into believing that there's a physical division between the physical and the metaphysical world. I sort of wondered if it might have been a very powerful curse. But then I remembered the mural where he's removing vallaslin from elves' faces, and the ones that no longer have vallaslin seem to be emotionless and have a stronger barrier around them than the ones he's removing vallaslin from. So I have started to wonder if this mural actually shows him starting to construct the Veil - especially if all it is a twist of the perception. If that's the case he would have built it elf by elf - maybe until a critical mass was reached whereby people's belief in the Veil started shaping it into reality. Then even the elves he hadn't magicked would sense it tangibly. And at that point it was self-perpetuating.

Once you believe the Veil is there, you can't draw on magic anymore. So that's why mages became rarer and rarer. And having lost their connection to the Fade the elves started aging. It kind of all makes sense with what we know about the lore.

The whole idea that the Veil is just a perception is very much like Plato's Cave, isn't it?

Random disorganized thought about how vallaslin is a bit like blood magic and maybe the removal of all those tattoos fueled the veil. There sure were a lot of slaves. probably not the total source of power for it. But if belief still had so much sway in a veiless world, maybe the ex slaves combined thought power also helped fuel it.

*scurries away*

Eeehhh, I'm not convinced on this "The Veil is entirely built out of belief" thing. It is cool, but I feel like everything we've seen of the Veil - actually seen of it, not read in a potentially canon-contradictory codex - would point to it having some material existence independent of what people think of it. If the Veil relied purely on belief, it should've evaporated as soon as it was put up, since (As we can see from the codex entries in Trespasser) the newly Veiled Elvhen realized it was a construction, hated it, and would've liked it gone - so it should've been gone, then. Similarly, the various properties the Veil has - wearing thin in some spots, for instance - should not exist since these properties would only exist if people believed they did, when we have no reason to assume that. The Breach should've immediately closed up and the tears vanished as, prior to their existence, people didn't believe such a thing was possible - which means it shouldn't have been. It would also mean that Solas' task is as easy as simply convincing people the Veil isn't real, unless we are going with the theory that Solas intends to mind control some collective mass consciousness - but if such a consciousness exist, why haven't we heard about it or even see hints of it?

Maybe the Veil draws some strength from people's belief in it. But I don't think that it's entire existence depends on that. I think that it is, at least partially - not physical, but material. Objective. Otherwise we'd never see supposedly impossible things done to or with the Veil - and yet rifts and time travel and the Veil's very existence are all things people didn't think could happen until they did.

EDIT: Also, to the "Solas somehow convinced his followers to believe in a Veil, thus making it reality" doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. The Veil was something that came down hard, instantaneously, from a specific action. If it was made by a trickle, then the elves we hear about in Trespasser who were suddenly struck by the Veil's existence - and all the world-ending things that entailed - wouldn't have be caught by surprise and suddenly killed. If the Veil's creation - and consequently, it's effects - were gradually put in place, then people should've known what it was doing for a long time before it progressed to the point of global destruction. As such, they would've either fought back against it (Nullifying it) or they would've at least gotten out of the way instead of hanging out in the trans-dimensional floating library and then acting all surprised when the Veil - which they would've known was a thing - suddenly destroyed it.

I'd say that we've never seen the Veil existing independently from Thedosian's mind. To test that hypothesis technically we'd have to purge life from entire world. In fact... the Veil shatters and disintegrates in a world where Corypheus manages to wipe most population.

... This is why the main idea is that Solas has somehow *tricked* people into believing that the Veil exists. What kind of process that would be, we don't know - plus, you can't forget that we don't know if at the time Vir Dirthara was affected Solas had enough 'critical mass' (of minds believing in concept of the Veil) to basically make the Veil reality for all, including those elves trapped in Vir Dirthara, no matter how much they hate the thing.

Plus, you're talking about a world where a powerful Dreamer can literally plant ideas in people's heads - some random modern Dreamer Joe Schmoes can even drive people mad or get them killed. And Solas - at that time at least - is first class Dreamer with power of Evanuris and probably a super-scary amount of knowledge. Even in his weakened state we've seen him selectively remove Cole's memory and force Inky to wake up. Needless to say, it's almost a certainty that he knows many tricks to make minds of people open to his suggestions.

But people believe that the Veil can thin and that the Fade is a danger. That in itself creates conditions where the Veil CAN thin - because people know that the Veil ain't foolproof. And even if they assure themselves between one another that the Veil will protect them, there are always those pesky whispers from the other side.

And no - the Breach won't immediately vanish, since it was created by an artifact that has accumulated magical power over millenia - the orb. That in itself guarantees that it stays and people's fear of demons and world ending basically guarantees that the Veil will tear further.

...We did hear about it and seen the hints of it.

Cole in Descent: It's singing. A they that's an it that's asleep, but still making music.

Then there's Dagna and her musings about her weird episode where her thought was all of thoughts of her people.

You could say that it refers only to dwarves, but the Titans themselves - beings intrinsically connected to the Fade - DO seem to be a form of collective consciousness and we're yet to find out how it relates to other people in Thedas, but we do know that humans can tap into power of Titan too: Cole explains it to us when we ask hima bout the templars; how they reach for something 'bigger than themselves'.

Then there's also a question of how did Evanuris manage to enslave so many people. Or how come Warden mages that go through some sort of ritual become Corypheus' puppets, entirely controlled by him.

And what do you think the Calling or Darkspawn hive-mind is? It's a form of collective consciousness.

Your mistake in regard to this speculation seems to be that you're thinking of concepts like 'people believe in the Veil therefore the Veil exists' like it's the only force existing in the universe or the only thing occupying people's minds. But we do know that there are more powers at play - those with either deep pockets of knowledge and even deeper reserves of willpower, those can as well sway considerable number of population to do their bidding or manipulate events.

I mean, we're talking about the world that is consistently shown to exist on an edge, where people are constantly threatened with world falling apart, conflict and potential ultimate Blight. There's more to people's life than believing in the Veil - I mean, if they start believe that their world is crumbling, for example, then it may as well be a self-fulfilling prophecy who shall overpower anything else, including phenomenons that are supposed to guarantee the world its stability, like the Veil.

You know, kinda what happened when the Breach appeared...

And I'm not saying that there's no other component to the Veil other than belief - there likely exist methods or artifacts to strengthen the Veil. But it may be likely the key to its existence and ultimate destruction.