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Post by Aroihkin on Aug 28, 2016 15:56:10 GMT
I like to check in once in a while. Didn't expect to see 'the new' BSN being shut down, le sigh. Perfect last words for the place, though. I have to say I registered to the social network recently (read : this week) and reading the popup about the "brand new" awesome official forum to check out... was kinda painful What, were they doing a third forum or something? I still miss the original. Nostalgia. Getting tired of starting over, y'know? Probably part of why I just check in once in a while instead of living on the forums like I once did.
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 28, 2016 16:02:57 GMT
I shall answer with screen shots. A few things... First post in this thread. I was lured by all of the good lore discussion and lols. Too good a combo to pass up. Secondly, I gotta agree with Lyn. "I don't always vallaslin, but when I do, I go June." It's just too beautiful. (Though I did pick Mythal's design, unknowingly, for my first Inquisitor.) Finally, Lynroy, is that awesome armor in the middle pic available in-game, or strictly via mod shenanigans? I've been admiring it in several of your pics, of late. Since I'll be resuming DAI play this week, I thought I'd ask. Alright, peoples. Didn't mean to derail. I'm not even sure if I am derailing, since I'm pages back, playing catch-up.
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Crazy Cat Lady/Free Hugs Provider
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Post by LliiraAnna on Aug 28, 2016 16:12:46 GMT
Tinfoil hats time!
The part that interested me the most was about the Void. I gave it a little bit of thought.
So we have:
"All that the Maker has wrought is in His hand Beloved and precious to Him. Where the Maker has turned His face away, Is a Void in all things; In the world, in the Fade, In the hearts and minds of men."
So the Void is an absence of something. Where the Maker turned His face away... absence of the Maker, his presence, attention, love.
Then there's this little tidbit that I couldn't get over:
"There is strength in absence. Absence of weakness, and of limitation. Absence of caution, and of mercy. The Void has always been within."
The Void within... an absence; of weakness, limitation, caution, mercy. Absence of what makes one human; of humanity.
The absence of Maker = the Void The Void = absence of humanity The absence of Maker = the absence of humanity
And this:
"The Empty Ones were a small and short-lived Nevarran cult predating the Chantry. They worshiped the Blight itself and, by extension, the darkspawn. They preached that the Blight came from the Void, a place of nothing, and that returning to the Void would end all suffering and thus should be celebrated."
Okay, so we have the Maker, the Void, and the Blight/the Darkspawn. Going by the above logic about the "absence of humanity", the Darkspawn would basically be the perfect manifestations of the Void - absolutely devoid of any humanity. Since the Void seems to be regarded as some kind of punishment for sinners, this'd reinforce the idea of the Blight being Maker's punishment...
Of course, there's still the matter of the Void-as-a-place. And I have honestly no idea where I'm going with all of this. Just wrote it down to pass the time, figured I'd share.
Edit: "strength in absence" and "the Void within" actually gave me strong Buddhist vibes, which made it... difficult to look at it from another perspective, haha.
P.S. "men" generally refers to humans... why not write "other elves" or "our people" or whatnot otherwise? So it's possibe it was humans.
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Seven Zettabytes
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Post by Seven Zettabytes on Aug 28, 2016 16:31:31 GMT
I always took 'mortal men' to simply mean 'not gods/not divine'.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 28, 2016 16:35:48 GMT
I guess that is possibly the meaning, but I still find it to be a strange way of putting it... I guess we will have to wait to find out more.
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Current Location: Oregon
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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PSN: The3tWits
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Post by lynroy on Aug 28, 2016 16:41:00 GMT
A few things... First post in this thread. I was lured by all of the good lore discussion and lols. Too good a combo to pass up. Secondly, I gotta agree with Lyn. "I don't always vallaslin, but when I do, I go June." It's just too beautiful. (Though I did pick Mythal's design, unknowingly, for my first Inquisitor.) Finally, Lynroy, is that awesome armor in the middle pic available in-game, or strictly via mod shenanigans? I've been admiring it in several of your pics, of late. Since I'll be resuming DAI play this week, I thought I'd ask. Alright, peoples. Didn't mean to derail. I'm not even sure if I am derailing, since I'm pages back, playing catch-up. Cheers. Sadly, the armor is only available with mods.
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Post by Amburu on Aug 28, 2016 16:41:29 GMT
I have to say I registered to the social network recently (read : this week) and reading the popup about the "brand new" awesome official forum to check out... was kinda painful What, were they doing a third forum or something? No, they just hadn't removed the announcement of old bsn, because of course they hadn't, it was still young *sigh*
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Post by Solas on Aug 28, 2016 16:44:54 GMT
A few things... First post in this thread. I was lured by all of the good lore discussion and lols. Too good a combo to pass up. Alright, peoples. Didn't mean to derail. I'm not even sure if I am derailing, since I'm pages back, playing catch-up. hello! welcome I'm glad the thread is a combination of good discussion and lulz don't worry about derailing, people commenting on discussions pages-past is nice cause it's further input on those lore questions.
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 28, 2016 16:46:50 GMT
A few things... First post in this thread. I was lured by all of the good lore discussion and lols. Too good a combo to pass up. Secondly, I gotta agree with Lyn. "I don't always vallaslin, but when I do, I go June." It's just too beautiful. (Though I did pick Mythal's design, unknowingly, for my first Inquisitor.) Finally, Lynroy, is that awesome armor in the middle pic available in-game, or strictly via mod shenanigans? I've been admiring it in several of your pics, of late. Since I'll be resuming DAI play this week, I thought I'd ask. Alright, peoples. Didn't mean to derail. I'm not even sure if I am derailing, since I'm pages back, playing catch-up. Cheers. Sadly, the armor is only available with mods. No worries about dashing my hopes on that account. It was far too nice to believe otherwise. I'd missed a lot of DLC, though, so I figured I'd ask!
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 28, 2016 16:52:26 GMT
I shall answer with screen shots. A few things... First post in this thread. I was lured by all of the good lore discussion and lols. Too good a combo to pass up. Secondly, I gotta agree with Lyn. "I don't always vallaslin, but when I do, I go June." It's just too beautiful. (Though I did pick Mythal's design, unknowingly, for my first Inquisitor.) Finally, Lynroy, is that awesome armor in the middle pic available in-game, or strictly via mod shenanigans? I've been admiring it in several of your pics, of late. Since I'll be resuming DAI play this week, I thought I'd ask. Alright, peoples. Didn't mean to derail. I'm not even sure if I am derailing, since I'm pages back, playing catch-up. Don't think you have anything to worry about, I derail this thread all the time and they haven't kicked me out yet. xD Then again, I do provide amazingly cute bunny-gifs...
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Post by LliiraAnna on Aug 28, 2016 16:56:10 GMT
I've also been thinking about what I'd do if it was *me* at the end of Trespasser. I think I wouldn't leave Solas, because, well, I'm not leaving a friend/a loved one, even if they're planning a Thedas-shattering kaboom. Especially if they're lonely. I can't stand leaving sad/lonely people alone forever. No one deserves to be alone. I'd be stuck like a leaf and get a fireball to the face.
So what would you guys do?
P.S. derailing? I'm usually barely on topic. Like now. So no worries!
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Post by lilyenachaos on Aug 28, 2016 17:06:44 GMT
I've also been thinking about what I'd do if it was *me* at the end of Trespasser. I think I wouldn't leave Solas, because, well, I'm not leaving a friend/a loved one, even if they're planning a Thedas-shattering kaboom. Especially if they're lonely. I can't stand leaving sad/lonely people alone forever. No one deserves to be alone. I'd be stuck like a leaf and get a fireball to the face. Why do you say my priorities aren't straight? What do you mean I should get a life?So what would you guys do? P.S. derailing? I'm usually barely on topic. Like now. So no worries! I'd have been hanging on to his ankle with my one arm crying pathetically for him not to leave me. My dear quizzy has more pride than I do though. Thankfully.
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Post by Amburu on Aug 28, 2016 17:25:28 GMT
I've also been thinking about what I'd do if it was *me* at the end of Trespasser. I think I wouldn't leave Solas, because, well, I'm not leaving a friend/a loved one, even if they're planning a Thedas-shattering kaboom. Especially if they're lonely. I can't stand leaving sad/lonely people alone forever. No one deserves to be alone. I'd be stuck like a leaf and get a fireball to the face. So what would you guys do? P.S. derailing? I'm usually barely on topic. Like now. So no worries! Jumping in teh mirror without the slightest bit of dignity because the anchor pain is agonizing Fall over Solas on the other side and we crash on the ground there Then hug and beg forev I never said it was a good plan
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Aug 28, 2016 17:56:59 GMT
I wouldn't have been able to follow him through the eluvian anymore than our Inquisitors could, but I certainly would have returned to my other friends, told them what went down, and started planning what to do next. Also, Patrick Weekes just retweeted this: "You are more than the things you have told yourself about yourself. You are a spirit expressing as a human being. And you have no limits." And of course it made me wonder if there's any Dragon Age significance to it.
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Crazy Cat Lady/Free Hugs Provider
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by LliiraAnna on Aug 28, 2016 18:01:39 GMT
I wouldn't have been able to follow him through the eluvian anymore than our Inquisitors could, but I certainly would have returned to my other friends, told them what went down, and started planning what to do next. Also, Patrick Weekes just retweeted this: "You are more than the things you have told yourself about yourself. You are a spirit expressing as a human being. And you have no limits." And of course it made me wonder if there's any Dragon Age significance to it. This reminds me of the beginning of the mage origin story in DAO, where a spirit tells you that "mortals" hold on to their physical image too much to be able to shapeshift in the Fade...
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Aroihkin
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Post by Aroihkin on Aug 28, 2016 18:25:53 GMT
What, were they doing a third forum or something? No, they just hadn't removed the announcement of old bsn, because of course they hadn't, it was still young *sigh* Wow, they hadn't? That's a whole other level of lame right there, isn't it.
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Solas
N5
blep mlem mlem
ratlobster banger
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Solas on Aug 28, 2016 19:03:29 GMT
huehuehue check my new title, @howyummy is a perfect human
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 28, 2016 19:20:22 GMT
Harking back to the posts on Andruil, I wonder if it did mean humans that she hunted because in the history of Arlathan as told by Gisharel, he mentions how their ancestors thought of humans as little more than vermin (or something similar) and that they had as little respect for them as the humans do for alienage elves. We know that Chevaliers use city elves for training their recruits in killing, so may be Andruil and her followers did the same with early humans. If you go by the timeline, particularly the one in the Keep, humans were meant to have arrived before the elves started to feel the quickening, which would mean they did arrive before the Veil, although the humans out in the material world wouldn't have been aware of it. This would also tie in with the fact that towards the end the Evanuris were steadily getting more out of control, which is why they ended up killing Mythal, who was the only one who seemed bothered about or able to keep them in order.
I wonder if Mythal objected to Andruil hunting humans and she got Fen'Harel to help them. I seem to recall that the old Alamarri tribes revered the wolf but I can't recall where I saw that. Still it could be that it was down to some racial memory of the Dread Wolf or his followers saving them from Andruil's hunters. There were definitely ruins in the Brecillian Forest where it appeared both humans and elves lived together. May be they were both sheltering from the same enemy.
As for the Void, I know the Chant seems to imply it is simply an absence of the Maker and possibly more a spiritual thing, but the codex on Andruil definitely suggests that she went there physically. Also the Dalish have a word banalhan, which means "the place of nothing" and the use it to refer both to the Blight and the place where it comes from. To my mind "the place of nothing" is another way of saying "the Void". I find it quite interesting that the Dalish definitely believe that the origin of the Blight is in the Void considering that they believe at least one of the Forgotten Ones is responsible for pestilence and the ancient elves believe they lived in the Void.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 28, 2016 20:01:36 GMT
I've found that reference about the wolf I was looking for. It comes from the Core Rule Book, which would have been the original reference material that was updated in 2015 when it was issued on-line.
The entry for Ferelden says for the old Alamarri tribes that they were an animist people who worshipped a wide variety of nature deities. "Most sacred of all creatures was the wolf, which they believe was created by the gods to be both a guide and protector to mankind." The ancient Alamarri used to pair up promising young warriors with wolf cubs in much the same way as apparently the Emerald Knights did in the Dales.
In view of the fact that elements of the old elven poem found in the Temple of Mythal lamenting what happened as a result of the Wolf failing/winning ended up in a much later Alamarri war poem, I pretty sure there is some sort of connection there. If nothing else, the tribes must have chanced upon old elven paintings of Fen'Harel protecting the elves and it became integrated in their own legends, but I wonder if Fen'Harel or his followers really did protect the early humans.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 28, 2016 20:14:40 GMT
I wouldn't have been able to follow him through the eluvian anymore than our Inquisitors could, but I certainly would have returned to my other friends, told them what went down, and started planning what to do next. Also, Patrick Weekes just retweeted this: "You are more than the things you have told yourself about yourself. You are a spirit expressing as a human being. And you have no limits." And of course it made me wonder if there's any Dragon Age significance to it. This reminds me of the beginning of the mage origin story in DAO, where a spirit tells you that "mortals" hold on to their physical image too much to be able to shapeshift in the Fade... Something that's been rattling around in my head for a while is whether Mortals and Spirits were once indistinguishable from each other. But the creation of the Veil meant that Spirits could no longer take bodies, while those who were Mortal were now permanently mode-locked into those particular shapes and often unable to do magic. This might explain why Spirits are so envious of Mortals, as the ability to take bodies is something they've lost the ability to do, thus they must now possess others if they want to experience that state of being. This would further make it clear how Cole was capable of taking on his human form, having somehow managed to do it despite the Veil making it normally impossible. Spirits possessing non-mages or corpses have been able to display magical abilities, perhaps due to the spirit unlocking dormant magical abilities in the host. The idea that Mortals are mode-locked Spirits might explain how certain Mages are capable of shapeshifting, as they have a far stronger connection to the Fade. Much like how Spirits and Dreamers can learn to assume any shape in the Fade, Shapeshifters are aware that their current form is merely a shell and have learned to cast it off to take another? *Takes off the tin-foil hat*
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Post by Roxy on Aug 28, 2016 20:37:39 GMT
I've also been thinking about what I'd do if it was *me* at the end of Trespasser. I think I wouldn't leave Solas, because, well, I'm not leaving a friend/a loved one, even if they're planning a Thedas-shattering kaboom. Especially if they're lonely. I can't stand leaving sad/lonely people alone forever. No one deserves to be alone. I'd be stuck like a leaf and get a fireball to the face. So what would you guys do? P.S. derailing? I'm usually barely on topic. Like now. So no worries! I'd probably would have made love to him one last time and then chain him to something with magical chains (If there could be such a thing in Thedas)to where he can't get away and then lecture him to stop being a dumbass and move on...probably not the brightest idea but that's all I got atm. EDIT: Ah and look we are on page 69 how ironic.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Aug 28, 2016 20:52:16 GMT
*snip* If you go by the timeline, particularly the one in the Keep, humans were meant to have arrived before the elves started to feel the quickening, which would mean they did arrive before the Veil, although the humans out in the material world wouldn't have been aware of it. *snip*
I'm not sure that we can unequivocally say that "humans arrived before the Veil because elves started feeling the quickening after humans arrived," simply because I'm not convinced that a race of people who are somewhat immortal (in that they can be killed, but they do not age) would *immediately* notice the signs of aging once the Veil is up. I think it's quite possible that there could be a lag between the Veil going up, and elves starting to notice wrinkles and grey hairs. Anyway, it's entirely possible that you're correct, but I'd be cautious about making that assumption.
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Post by Roxy on Aug 28, 2016 20:58:20 GMT
I'd probably would have made love to him one last time and then chain him to something with magical chains (If there could be such a thing in Thedas)to where he can't get away and then lecture him to stop being a dumbass and move on...probably not the brightest idea but that's all I got atm. EDIT: Ah and look we are on page 69 how ironic. Okay, now I can't unsee it. Solas: I think you have questions. Lavellan: Yes. *takes clothes off* Who's on top? Sometimes you gotta do whatcha gotta do..... Jk btw
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 28, 2016 21:18:54 GMT
There were definitely spirits before the Veil. What seems open to debate is whether or not humans were around before the Veil. When spirits crossed into the Waking World they seemed to be able to take on material form. There is a memory in the library which shows a spirit lecturing a group of elves but I wonder if this was actually took place in the in-between world that the elves created between the Waking World and the Fade. May be they did this specifically so spirits could retain their own form while interacting with the elves.
What seems strange now is that some spirits are capable of taking on a mortal appearance in the Waking World without needing to possess anyone. Cole isn't the only one who can do this. Imshael did so as well. For some reason he still wants to possess people though. Apparently it must give him some sensation that he cannot experience on his own.
There was another entry concerning wolves that I found interesting, the one on the constellation Fenrir. It mentions how it is strange because there seems no wolf folklore connected with Tevinter, so may be it relates to Fen'Harel. Then it goes on to speak of an old Neromenian legend about a wolf escaping hunters by fleeing into the sky. Again, I wonder if this relates to Solas. Since the sky is synonymous with the Fade to the old elves, if Fen'Harel was fleeing the hunters of Andruil, may be he fled into the Fade to escape capture.
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Sifr
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Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Aug 28, 2016 21:21:19 GMT
Did the spirits exist before the Veil? They might be native to the Fade as it is now, or they might be some... immortal, magical parts of mortals that got cut off by the Veil and now seek to "become one" with them again. In Trespasser, the Spirit Archivists in Vir Dirthara were around to record the last words of the Elves trapped inside when the Veil fell, so they apparently predate it. Solas also comments early in Inquisition about how true understanding with Spirits is impossible in a world where the Veil exists, suggesting that they were around before and trapping them solely in the Fade is what causes so many problems in modern-day Thedas.
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