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Post by The Elder King on May 18, 2022 20:32:25 GMT
I do think that based on how you roleplay your character the punching option could work, but yeah, it's much more satisfying to beat her by destroying her arguments, to me personally.
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on May 18, 2022 20:38:53 GMT
How was Emily's death fixed? Was the newspiece simply removed with some mod? With a mod. It doesn't keep her alive but you get an email from Allers letting you know what happened and a last message. Sometimes the little things matter. IMO either Khaleesa or Emily would have been perfect on the Normandy. Khaleesa was simply asking hard questions that few dare to ask and Shep's scripted renegade responses to them were ridiculous. And all this punching thing, it's absolutely childish and repulsive. But I guess having to get along with her would remind us too much of the real world? I agree on all counts. Just before I signed off last night I met Al-Jilani on the Citadel. I swear I pressed the button for the interrupt by accident and punched her. Had to go to the last save, which was right after I stepped on board. I stopped myself. It is childish but once you've seen how upset she is in ME3 it really shows you her motivations. She's not anti-alien but she wants more for Earth. Not in a "I'll turn people into husks for science" way but instead into promotion of humanity.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on May 18, 2022 23:11:33 GMT
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Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on May 19, 2022 3:54:20 GMT
New concept art from the teaser: One of them looked like an hourglass, which makes me think "Hourglass Nebula". One also looked like there was a black hole in the middle. That makes me think Heleus Cluster. If those are both right then there's a link between MW and Andromeda. I mean, proof that both galaxies are in play.
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Post by hulluliini on May 19, 2022 6:56:39 GMT
I wonder what the star explosion is about? Maybe they will explore the dark energy plotline in the next games. Why are all these stars suddenly exploding? Dark energy! I'm sure they can come up with some nonsensical, nonscientific way to make it sound cool.
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Post by hulluliini on May 19, 2022 7:09:06 GMT
How was Emily's death fixed? Was the newspiece simply removed with some mod? IMO either Khaleesa or Emily would have been perfect on the Normandy. Khaleesa was simply asking hard questions that few dare to ask and Shep's scripted renegade responses to them were ridiculous. And all this punching thing, it's absolutely childish and repulsive. But I guess having to get along with her would remind us too much of the real world? Holy smokes, someone else with some sense about this! I can't understand this revolting obsession with assaulting people that this fanbase is gripped by. Never mind the fact that destroying her argument with words and facts is infinitely more satisfying. Also it makes Shepard not look like a mentally unhinged lunatic on galactic television. Bioware is making it really easy for the player to go with animal instincts and it made me wonder what kind of people they are exactly. Are these their secret violent fantasies that they finally get to realise through a videogame? It's such a tired old trope that video games either make us more violent or offer a release for some pent-up violence. Not all of us want to inflict violence. I have plenty of aggression towards other people but I could never, ever physically harm anyone. Even while sparring in krav maga. I sucked so bad because I couldn't bring myself to punch my opponent even with these huge padded gloves. It just got worse in ME2, e.g. being able to push a merc off the ledge, for the lulz. Basically renegade = sadistic. I really liked the middle options in ME1 because they often felt the most realistic (most diplomatic, neutral or shades of grey). It's definitely more time-consuming to create those options instead of just the good and the evil. But I remember from the old forums how people complained that if fans complain about some feature being imperfect, Bioware goes and removes it completely instead of trying to improve it based on feedback.
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Post by hulluliini on May 19, 2022 7:14:22 GMT
Interestingly, all these moments you give as examples were not emotional to me at all (and were indeed completely nonsensical). I was thinking of my personally emotional moments - the first one being when I booted up ME1 for the very first time and hearing Vigil and seeing these murky figures on the screen, wondering who and what they were and I just sat there daydreaming for several minutes. Or that woman who got abducted by batarians and got beaten and raped her whole life until she was finally rescued. Or Ilos, looking at all those cryopods and pondering on the fate of an extinct race. In ME2, seeing how people lived on Omega and nobody really caring about them. That poor girl who fell for Morinth. These subtle side stories and environmental storytelling are the most emotional for me, not the 'big scenes' that were clearly written to pack a punch. I see through it and don't care or feel much. I couldn't tell you why exactly they feel cheap, they just do. I am not good at parsing the logic of storytelling because my attention span isn't too wide. I can still tell when writers tried too hard to make something give great feelz. I agree that the cheap emotional moments that were written on purpose to give an emotional punch are actually not very effective, at least to everyone. I felt absolutely nothing when Thane died. Well, I did feel annoyed because I hate the character and just wanted to get it over with. Those poems, ughh. Still, emotions are important. Despite all the story writing flaws, ME is hugely successful. And we are here, discussing it. They did something right. And if I think about all the series, movies and games I have watched and played, I can't think of a single one that didn't have some logical flaw in the story. I prefer to have a logical story but I've seen how immensely rare it is (in the genres that I personally enjoy). So if a story is directed well enough to give me emotional moments, I don't care about some individual problems with logic as long as the lore and the world around has its own internal logic. And in my experience, people who feel that a story is completely ruined if there is a single thing 'wrong', are indeed a minority. Most people seem to go, oh now that you point it out, yes you're right. Meaning they are able to see it but it doesn't affect or ruin their experience. Ah I see, this I agree with. Those are the moments I also had, those are the types of things that made me so hooked to begin with...but ultimately for me, and many other people stuff like that isn't enough if the "main attraction" that is so consistently nonsensical that it ultimately not only takes you out of the illusion, but makes it impossible to enjoy it the same way again. Yep, it's easy to assume what people are referring to when we aren't specific enough... I suppose I've never really cared about the main story and how much it makes sense. I'm always drawn to the world and lore and the smaller storylines. And it's so much easier to make those smaller plots logical and well directed - probably in part because there's less micromanagement for them as they are seen as less important by the bosses so the writers can do as they please. In ME:A, there are so many good stories in the emails and logs and side quests. The main plot just feels awkward(ly stupid). So I don't focus on it.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 8:13:18 GMT
Holy smokes, someone else with some sense about this! I can't understand this revolting obsession with assaulting people that this fanbase is gripped by. Never mind the fact that destroying her argument with words and facts is infinitely more satisfying. Also it makes Shepard not look like a mentally unhinged lunatic on galactic television. Bioware is making it really easy for the player to go with animal instincts and it made me wonder what kind of people they are exactly. Creative people writing things, with variable success. Uh... That's a giant question, and in some cases the answer is definitely yes. This game is a power fantasy. BioWare has used moral dilemmas consistently in their work as far back as I can remember. But some of us do. Sometimes. Is this good or healthy? No, maybe not. Is it better that I relish sniping imaginary space aliens and watching their heads disappear in a misty vapor, rather than go hunting people with a shotgun? Why yes, yes that is a lot better actually! This is fine. Not everyone wants to be physically combative - thank god! I don't look for trouble, but if it comes at me I have and will hurt people as bad as I have to. With enough training, the instant you have control of a fight, there's an eery calm that overtakes you and everything is simply mechanical until it's over. This calm can also allow the fight to stop at any moment the aggressor is either asleep or controlled. Krav can teach you this, so can other arts, but if you aren't willing to harm someone to defend yourself then that is that. I disagree. It got more pragmatic, with a grim sense of humor. I was going to kill that merc anyway. So were you. They were going to die, and if you didn't push them off, yes you or Garrus your homie for life, killed his ass dead dead dead and laughed about it, because he was an idiot merc trying to kill them. Push him off then, that's one less idiot with a gun trying to kill me for drinking creds at Afterlife. Survival matters. Totally agree.
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Post by hulluliini on May 19, 2022 9:21:17 GMT
Bioware is making it really easy for the player to go with animal instincts and it made me wonder what kind of people they are exactly. Creative people writing things, with variable success. Uh... That's a giant question, and in some cases the answer is definitely yes. This game is a power fantasy. BioWare has used moral dilemmas consistently in their work as far back as I can remember. But some of us do. Sometimes. Is this good or healthy? No, maybe not. Is it better that I relish sniping imaginary space aliens and watching their heads disappear in a misty vapor, rather than go hunting people with a shotgun? Why yes, yes that is a lot better actually! This is fine. Not everyone wants to be physically combative - thank god! I don't look for trouble, but if it comes at me I have and will hurt people as bad as I have to. With enough training, the instant you have control of a fight, there's an eery calm that overtakes you and everything is simply mechanical until it's over. This calm can also allow the fight to stop at any moment the aggressor is either asleep or controlled. Krav can teach you this, so can other arts, but if you aren't willing to harm someone to defend yourself then that is that. I disagree. It got more pragmatic, with a grim sense of humor. I was going to kill that merc anyway. So were you. They were going to die, and if you didn't push them off, yes you or Garrus your homie for life, killed his ass dead dead dead and laughed about it, because he was an idiot merc trying to kill them. Push him off then, that's one less idiot with a gun trying to kill me for drinking creds at Afterlife. Survival matters. Totally agree. I don't know how to answer point by point but you can probably tell what I'm referring to: - some needing outlets for violent traits? not a problem per se. I'm just saying there are far better games for that. It just doesn't fit the utopian feeling that ME1 had. It feels jarring when it happens, doesn't fit the game overall IMO. If I wanted to feel close to actually killing someone, there are so much better games for that. - punching someone while sparring is very different from defending yourself and having to hurt someone in the process. Moreover, the law in Finland is very strict about not overdoing it - I could cite so many cases where the victim got fined because they 'overreacted' while defending their life or property. One particularly ridiculous case? a psychotic neighbour used a fucking chainsaw to cut through a door and charged towards his neighbour, who defended himself by shooting the assailant in the shoulder. The shoulder never healed properly and the shooter had to pay a LOT (i.e. bye bye comfortable life). So basically the message is that he should have allowed the guy to kill him with the chainsaw because "it was not certain that he attempted to hurt or kill him". There was also a very public case where an old man was pushed against the floor by a burglar and thought he would be killed so he pulled a gun on the assailant. The old man was going to receive a much harsher punishment than the burglar. So yeah. I'm glad I don't have the ability to hurt someone on purpose. Krav maga has plenty of techniques to avoid the need for that. - the merc thing was unnecessarily sadistic. The difference is between shooting a person who can see you and defend themselves and pushing them off the ledge before they have any chance to defend themselves. May not seem like a big difference but it's there.
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Post by themikefest on May 19, 2022 11:19:00 GMT
New concept art from the teaser: One of them looked like an hourglass, which makes me think "Hourglass Nebula". One also looked like there was a black hole in the middle. That makes me think Heleus Cluster. If those are both right then there's a link between MW and Andromeda. I mean, proof that both galaxies are in play. I would be more interested in the explanation for having both galaxies in the game. Will it be another you don't need to know, and there's not enough time to explain moment? I prefer staying in one galaxy. The black hole could be in the Milky Way since a small fraction of it has been explored
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
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Post by wright1978 on May 19, 2022 12:20:41 GMT
The thought of bringing back Shep doesn't fill me with the antipathy it used to. I think we're at the stage where some kind of canonisation is the only way forward. Shep is a strong lead (certainly better than the bad joke that is Ryder and probably a safer bet than a blank slate in terms of reception) Playing a completely generic shep rather than my shep would certainly be something i'd find less appealing but probably now wouldn't stop me playing the game.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on May 19, 2022 14:37:33 GMT
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Post by N7Pathfinder on May 19, 2022 17:05:49 GMT
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on May 19, 2022 18:01:07 GMT
One of them looked like an hourglass, which makes me think "Hourglass Nebula". One also looked like there was a black hole in the middle. That makes me think Heleus Cluster. If those are both right then there's a link between MW and Andromeda. I mean, proof that both galaxies are in play. I would be more interested in the explanation for having both galaxies in the game. Will it be another you don't need to know, and there's not enough time to explain moment? I prefer staying in one galaxy. The black hole could be in the Milky Way since a small fraction of it has been explored The black hole could be in the MW, sure, but it doesn't make sense. Unless they plan to link the galaxies through black holes. Maybe some weird time distortion. Or imagine if people from the MET went through a black hole and go there in the present. Then we get involved with whatever led to the Golden Worlds being ruined. Link it to Haestrom somehow.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on May 19, 2022 18:19:07 GMT
How was Emily's death fixed? Was the newspiece simply removed with some mod? IMO either Khaleesa or Emily would have been perfect on the Normandy. Khaleesa was simply asking hard questions that few dare to ask and Shep's scripted renegade responses to them were ridiculous. And all this punching thing, it's absolutely childish and repulsive. But I guess having to get along with her would remind us too much of the real world? Holy smokes, someone else with some sense about this! I can't understand this revolting obsession with assaulting people that this fanbase is gripped by. Never mind the fact that destroying her argument with words and facts is infinitely more satisfying. Also it makes Shepard not look like a mentally unhinged lunatic on galactic television.
Not everyone takes the game that seriously, punching her is just funny to them. Especially given how many play throughs many people have.
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Post by smilesja on May 19, 2022 18:45:32 GMT
Holy smokes, someone else with some sense about this! I can't understand this revolting obsession with assaulting people that this fanbase is gripped by. Never mind the fact that destroying her argument with words and facts is infinitely more satisfying. Also it makes Shepard not look like a mentally unhinged lunatic on galactic television.
Not everyone takes the game that seriously, punching her is just funny to them. Especially given how many play throughs many people have.
At the end of the day, it's just a video game. I think punching the journalist was hilarious and done it a couple of times. Why deprive a person of choice in an RPG? If they want to "give in" to their base instincts let them.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2022 5:53:14 GMT
I can see your reasoning, hulluliini. Particularly in regard to your laws. America isn't totally the Wild West, and I have spent time in the clink for dealing damage. Fortunately, the other guy got more time, as he was acting criminally whereas I acted properly in self-defense, then got annoyed at attitude and gave my "friend" a short nap. 10 days in county sucks, I can testify. Wild west will be later this year, maybe. Cross that when we get there. Anyways, I guess my overall point was that many entertainment mediums use these tropes, for better or worse, and despite their flaws and at times galling lack of civility or kindness, even a shred of empathy, reading a character like Renegade Shep is a lot of fun for some folks and to step outside your own skin and be an absolute demon is a release of sorts. For the record, I have completed the entire series now probably 15-20 times. Unlike Mike, my runs almost always end up the same - full Paragon bar, half Renegade bar. I help the people and the creatures, I treat all the life forms with the respect I believe they are due. My one pure Renegade was uncomfortable at times and not an experience I will repeat. But I did enjoy it. I guess, it's all in the eye of the beholder. And I think a bridge too far to apply any gaming behavior to what people actually think or feel in real life... Those people usually tell us who they are anyway, no deciphering necessary.
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Post by themikefest on May 20, 2022 11:32:32 GMT
Not everyone takes the game that seriously, punching her is just funny to them. Especially given how many play throughs many people have.
At the end of the day, it's just a video game. I think punching the journalist was hilarious and done it a couple of times. Why deprive a person of choice in an RPG? If they want to "give in" to their base instincts let them. I have punch al-Jilani a couple of times, but overall I choose the blue/red dialogue when talking with her. I would guess punching the reporter was another one of those wouldn't it be cool thing. If there's to be any punching, how about punching Jack? I was surprised Shepard couldn't hit her back, or at the very least have some words about that.
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Post by therevanchist25 on May 20, 2022 16:29:14 GMT
Holy smokes, someone else with some sense about this! I can't understand this revolting obsession with assaulting people that this fanbase is gripped by. Never mind the fact that destroying her argument with words and facts is infinitely more satisfying. Also it makes Shepard not look like a mentally unhinged lunatic on galactic television.
Not everyone takes the game that seriously, punching her is just funny to them. Especially given how many play throughs many people have.
Explain what's funny about randomly assaulting someone on TV for basically no reason. I did it the first time I played, not knowing what the option was going to do, and I just sat there confused as to why that was even an option, there's nothing funny about random acts of psychoticness.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on May 20, 2022 17:45:12 GMT
If there's to be any punching, how about punching Jack? I was surprised Shepard couldn't hit her back, or at the very least have some words about that. "I told you not to trust Cerberus!" Yeah, Jack, you were with me the entire time and left them the same time as me! And Jack knows full well their mission was very important. It was a crap bit of cut scene.
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Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on May 20, 2022 17:46:54 GMT
Explain what's funny about randomly assaulting someone on TV for basically no reason. I did it the first time I played, not knowing what the option was going to do, and I just sat there confused as to why that was even an option, there's nothing funny about random acts of psychoticness. Nothing. In a world where lots of things don't make sense, this goes the extra mile. It would make sense for a Shepard like that to not have Council backing. Then again, the Council thought Saren was charismatic so maybe this behavior would be something they'd like.
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Post by therevanchist25 on May 22, 2022 2:53:16 GMT
Explain what's funny about randomly assaulting someone on TV for basically no reason. I did it the first time I played, not knowing what the option was going to do, and I just sat there confused as to why that was even an option, there's nothing funny about random acts of psychoticness. Nothing. In a world where lots of things don't make sense, this goes the extra mile. It would make sense for a Shepard like that to not have Council backing. Then again, the Council thought Saren was charismatic so maybe this behavior would be something they'd like. I mean the prequal novel made it very clear Saren was quite the Spectre pre-Sovereign. Now that I think about it, Saren is basically Loghain Mac Tir in terms of how his society viewed him, except proving Loghain was no longer the paragon people thought took much longer.
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Post by smilesja on May 22, 2022 5:50:30 GMT
Explain what's funny about randomly assaulting someone on TV for basically no reason. I did it the first time I played, not knowing what the option was going to do, and I just sat there confused as to why that was even an option, there's nothing funny about random acts of psychoticness. Nothing. In a world where lots of things don't make sense, this goes the extra mile. It would make sense for a Shepard like that to not have Council backing. Then again, the Council thought Saren was charismatic so maybe this behavior would be something they'd like. Are you crazy? In a video game, random acts of psychoticness is hilarious.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 22, 2022 6:01:06 GMT
Nothing. In a world where lots of things don't make sense, this goes the extra mile. It would make sense for a Shepard like that to not have Council backing. Then again, the Council thought Saren was charismatic so maybe this behavior would be something they'd like. Are you crazy? In a video game, random acts of psychoticness is hilarious. There’s nothing hilarious about things like that video or anything like that. It’s disgusting so many people find that funny.
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Post by smilesja on May 22, 2022 19:47:34 GMT
It's a great way to blow off steam.
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