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Post by traks on Aug 25, 2019 13:11:28 GMT
Exactly. I would rather talk about potential game scenarios from a story standpoint or whether they open the door for something to be brought out later, then the bickering I see around here (too often). What is there to talk about it though? ... Whatever you want. Kett, Jaardan, Shepard, Wrex, Reapers, whatever is of interest to you. I was talking in general as a (trying to stay) neutral reader, that it is pretty tiresome to read "I'm right", "No, I'm right", page over page over page. That's why I initially said we need news. NEWS from Bioware sources, not some speculated "leaks" no one can verify.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 14:46:14 GMT
Why do you assume Bioware wants the franchise to end though? If they get another hit game, wouldn't they want to continue with whatever story that entails? Why go to all the trouble to look for a means of continuing storywise only to plan to write that opening into another finale within a single game?... while still abandoning a story in mid-stream in the process. That sort of attitude/action on their part makes the least sense to me. Their time would be better spent developing another new IP, something completely removed from either Anthem or Mass Effect. Why should they abandon a story mid-stream if they approach the next game as if it is the last? I just think we are lucky if we get one more Mass Effect game and somehow think the original team (Hudson, Falkner, P. Watamaniak, Watts, ... who are all still or again there; that only wanted to do a trilogy) comes in now, to give the series a high quality (remember: quality, not necessarily high sales) fifth game. Just because they - especially Hudson - surely don't want their baby to end with a sour note. Not sure if they then feel rejuvenated enough to go through more trouble. Of course it would be nice, if they announce a new trilogy set 1000 years after the first, but I doubt they are in the position now. Another reminder: they wanted to do something different after ME3, that's why they started working on a new IP and left MEA to the Montreal team. So my best guess is a fifth game that links both galaxies (relays returning either at the start or the end depending on the point where the story picks up...). If they aren't doing an Andromeda sequel, then they are abandoning that story mid-stream. For just one game of a franchise that has a "tainted name" (regardless of which game you blame for tainting it - ME3 or ME:A), it doesn't make sense to plan for it to be the last game possible for that franchise. They should then just let ME:A stand as proof that they weren't capable of recovering the franchise from the ME3 debacle. The franchise then is simply not worth the risks of trying to recover its name a second time. They should, IMO, then just let it go and focus on yet another new idea and hope they can do better than they did with Anthem.
If plans are already in the works to shutter the company and not shoot for an IP with long-term sustainability, then they should really just focus on making DA4 their grand swan song.
Hudson et al may have an emotion-based desire to "have their baby end on a better note"; but this IS business and their owners are all about business. I don't think Hudson has a snowball's chance of convincing EA to fund just one more ME game as a final game for the franchise just to give it a better ending note with no upside potential for the long-term future of the franchise.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 25, 2019 15:27:49 GMT
Funny that he suddenly decides to release info on a leak he's had all along, after weeks of having his tcontinuation proposals derided. I don't understand what you mean by this. You've been going at it for a while now and I still don't understand what you mean by this. Would like to elaborate? Sure. Assuming, arguendo, that this leak is real and you believe it, your communication strategies have been bizarrely ineffective. While your ideas haven't been all that great on the merits, most of the argument around them has been about your baseline assumptions, which are disputable and disputed. Playing the leak card earlier would have been a much better look for you, since a lot of that would have been off the table, relegated to a side-argument about the leak's provenance and veracity, a debate you could have declined to engage in at all on the grounds that you can not reveal your source. Instead, you've managed to make it look like you're making up stuff out of sheer frustration that nobody's listening to you.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 25, 2019 15:37:06 GMT
Why should they abandon a story mid-stream if they approach the next game as if it is the last? I just think we are lucky if we get one more Mass Effect game and somehow think the original team (Hudson, Falkner, P. Watamaniak, Watts, ... who are all still or again there; that only wanted to do a trilogy) comes in now, to give the series a high quality (remember: quality, not necessarily high sales) fifth game. Just because they - especially Hudson - surely don't want their baby to end with a sour note. Not sure if they then feel rejuvenated enough to go through more trouble. Of course it would be nice, if they announce a new trilogy set 1000 years after the first, but I doubt they are in the position now. Another reminder: they wanted to do something different after ME3, that's why they started working on a new IP and left MEA to the Montreal team. So my best guess is a fifth game that links both galaxies (relays returning either at the start or the end depending on the point where the story picks up...). If they aren't doing an Andromeda sequel, then they are abandoning that story mid-stream. For just one game of a franchise that has a "tainted name" (regardless of which game you blame for tainting it - ME3 or ME:A), it doesn't make sense to plan for it to be the last game possible for that franchise. They should then just let ME:A stand as proof that they weren't capable of recovering the franchise from the ME3 debacle. The franchise then is simply not worth the risks of trying to recover its name a second time. They should, IMO, then just let it go and focus on yet another new idea and hope they can do better than they did with Anthem.
If plans are already in the works to shutter the company and not shoot for an IP with long-term sustainability, then they should really just focus on making DA4 their grand swan song.
Hudson et al may have an emotion-based desire to "have their baby end on a better note"; but this IS business and their owners are all about business. I don't think Hudson has a snowball's chance of convincing EA to fund just one more ME game as a final game for the franchise just to give it a better ending note with no upside potential for the long-term future of the franchise.
Yeah, this is where I've been for a while. If things are really as bad as some of us think the are -- I'm agnostic; don't have the data -- then bringing ME back at all isn't a high-percentage move.
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Post by traks on Aug 25, 2019 15:38:56 GMT
Why should they abandon a story mid-stream if they approach the next game as if it is the last? I just think we are lucky if we get one more Mass Effect game and somehow think the original team (Hudson, Falkner, P. Watamaniak, Watts, ... who are all still or again there; that only wanted to do a trilogy) comes in now, to give the series a high quality (remember: quality, not necessarily high sales) fifth game. Just because they - especially Hudson - surely don't want their baby to end with a sour note. Not sure if they then feel rejuvenated enough to go through more trouble. Of course it would be nice, if they announce a new trilogy set 1000 years after the first, but I doubt they are in the position now. Another reminder: they wanted to do something different after ME3, that's why they started working on a new IP and left MEA to the Montreal team. So my best guess is a fifth game that links both galaxies (relays returning either at the start or the end depending on the point where the story picks up...). If they aren't doing an Andromeda sequel, then they are abandoning that story mid-stream. For just one game of a franchise that has a "tainted name" (regardless of which game you blame for tainting it - ME3 or ME:A), it doesn't make sense to plan for it to be the last game possible for that franchise. They should then just let ME:A stand as proof that they weren't capable of recovering the franchise from the ME3 debacle. The franchise then is simply not worth the risks of trying to recover its name a second time. They should, IMO, then just let it go and focus on yet another new idea and hope they can do better than they did with Anthem.
If plans are already in the works to shutter the company and not shoot for an IP with long-term sustainability, then they should really just focus on making DA4 their grand swan song.
Hudson et al may have an emotion-based desire to "have their baby end on a better note"; but this IS business and their owners are all about business. I don't think Hudson has a snowball's chance of convincing EA to fund just one more ME game as a final game for the franchise just to give it a better ending note with no upside potential for the long-term future of the franchise.
Maybe you understand 'connecting both galaxies' wrong. I expect the next game to wrap up the Kett-plot - just with a connection to the Milky Way. Either direct or indirect. All interesting open questions are in Andromeda right now.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 25, 2019 15:40:00 GMT
which are disputable and disputed You can dispute them, but so far, all I've seen is confirmations of the things I've predicted. I would very much like to see something that you argue in favour of what your preference is and see it realized. If you know something I am not aware of, feel free to share. Playing the leak card earlier would have been a much better look for you, I don't care about looks. Instead, you've managed to make it look like you're making up stuff out of sheer frustration that nobody's listening to you. Who the fuck cares about how I feel? Is this a board to talk about my PTSD or something?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 25, 2019 15:43:55 GMT
bringing ME back at all isn't a high-percentage move. Unless they develop another new franchise in the meantime, what else do they have?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 16:08:51 GMT
If they aren't doing an Andromeda sequel, then they are abandoning that story mid-stream. For just one game of a franchise that has a "tainted name" (regardless of which game you blame for tainting it - ME3 or ME:A), it doesn't make sense to plan for it to be the last game possible for that franchise. They should then just let ME:A stand as proof that they weren't capable of recovering the franchise from the ME3 debacle. The franchise then is simply not worth the risks of trying to recover its name a second time. They should, IMO, then just let it go and focus on yet another new idea and hope they can do better than they did with Anthem.
If plans are already in the works to shutter the company and not shoot for an IP with long-term sustainability, then they should really just focus on making DA4 their grand swan song.
Hudson et al may have an emotion-based desire to "have their baby end on a better note"; but this IS business and their owners are all about business. I don't think Hudson has a snowball's chance of convincing EA to fund just one more ME game as a final game for the franchise just to give it a better ending note with no upside potential for the long-term future of the franchise.
Maybe you understand 'connecting both galaxies' wrong. I expect the next game to wrap up the Kett-plot - just with a connection to the Milky Way. Either direct or indirect. All interesting open questions are in Andromeda right now. No, I don't think I'm understanding that part wrong. I consider the idea of connecting both galaxies as a move to try to create room to write interesting stories for future ME games involving locations in both galaxies... not as a means of creating a final swan song. I'm not talking about not specifically leaving hangers or teases about possible future plots, I'm talking about writing something with the writing room to continue it on theme into the future if the opportunity arises rather than writing something again with the express intent of it being a finale (which is what they did with ME3) and is, for the most part, why we are where we're at with it today. Not all series episodes contain cliffhangers for the next. In fact, most don't... but they are still written with a sense that the series will be going on for awhile after that episode. At this stage, if the next ME game is being pitched to EA as a last grand finale, it probably won't even get to the drawing board.
I do believe that if they opt to do a MET sequel in the Milky Way without even trying to draw in some elements from Andromeda (in effect, making it a sequel of some sort to Andromeda), then they are not ever going to pick up anything from Andromeda ever again. I personally don't want to see that happen. I personally don't think that is there best move. I don't think such a move would significantly help the possible sales of a next ME game (that is, I don't think having a connection to Andromeda and allowing it to stand as part of the MEU in some way would affect sales nearly as adversely as some others here do). Of course, they have innumerable options...
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 25, 2019 17:41:11 GMT
bringing ME back at all isn't a high-percentage move. Unless they develop another new franchise in the meantime, what else do they have? Letting the IP die. I should have been explicit about that. Hail Marys are OK in a football game, since you're already playing. But paying $60-100 million to throw one? Not likely.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 18:45:06 GMT
Unless they develop another new franchise in the meantime, what else do they have? Letting the IP die. I should have been explicit about that. Hail Marys are OK in a football game, since you're already playing. But paying $60-100 million to throw one? Not likely. True - sigh.
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Post by natetrace on Aug 25, 2019 19:50:36 GMT
I don't think abandoning the IP is a good move, though they might several years from now. They might pull a blizzard and shoot it like StarCraft. Besides, sci-fi games these days need some genius hook or mechanic, like death stranding where you can pee.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 26, 2019 11:21:56 GMT
That is perfectly valid, but what are they going to release, if not another game? The IPs they currently have, besides Mass Effect are Dragon Age and Anthem. Are they going to make Jade Empire 2? Develop a new IP? Developing a new IP, as evident by Anthem, is a lot harder than making another game in an established IP. In addition to that, EA will have to be willing to support Bioware in another endeavor to develop a new IP and considering how Anthem did go, EA might, understandably so, not be very supportive of such a practice. I can't see them not doing a ME game after DA4. If they are, they will have to already be in the process of making a new franchise and I've not heard anything like that.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 26, 2019 17:00:13 GMT
bringing ME back at all isn't a high-percentage move. Unless they develop another new franchise in the meantime, what else do they have? IF ME fails its brand-equity check, developing another new IP is the alternative, yep. I don't know it that's the case or not. I presume they've been focus-grouping and so forth to test that.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 26, 2019 17:02:15 GMT
IF ME fails its brand-equity check, developing another new IP is the alternative, yep. We'll see if and how that goes, but EA is not up to funding another Anthem.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 26, 2019 17:04:39 GMT
*shrugs* Developing an IP isn't a huge part of the costs anyway. That wasn't what they threw away the Anthem budget on.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 26, 2019 17:22:57 GMT
*shrugs* Developing an IP isn't a huge part of the costs anyway. That wasn't what they threw away the Anthem budget on. That's not what I mean. Anthem had a complete lack of vision. Evident by how the Anthem was a concept shoved into the game literally in the last moment, because they couldn't get Beyond in the title. Everything about it was last minute. At least with an established IP, you have a setting, themes etc. You already know where it can go and what you can do, the limitations of it etc. You have a very specific guideline of what you can work with, which is why Andromeda was better received than Anthem; it stuck to its guns, didn't try to reinvent the wheel too much and was subsequently a much better game overall. You can still choose to develop a new IP, no doubt, but the prospect of it being produced in a state similar or worse than Anthem are very real. Also, a seven year production cycle for that new IP? Cost isn't a problem? 7 years? Bargain bin price 4-5 months post release? It just isn't worth the RoI.
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Post by x19dude95 on Aug 26, 2019 20:26:24 GMT
I want Andromeda 2 tbh. By the end of the game it seemed like it could gave went somewhere goid.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 27, 2019 17:46:35 GMT
We really need some news, to get back to an interesting discussion about the future of the series. OK. Here's some news I've been sitting on for a while. I think it's time to share. - Ryder is out, permanently - New game, new protagonist - Next game will not be called Andromeda, it will have a different subtitle - They are aggressively targeting a prequel to the OT - First Contact setting was already visited and ruined by Andromeda - First Contact War could still be revisited, the setting would require a lot of reworking, i.e. retconning, to be viable, but they are willing to do that Bioware peeps, I know you're reading this, any one of you feel free to come in and say I'm wrong. I don't buy it. If you got this ages ago why didnt you share it then? Plus I doubt they'd cave in like this. However I have said any game in the MW would have to be a prequel.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 27, 2019 17:47:55 GMT
IF ME fails its brand-equity check, developing another new IP is the alternative, yep. We'll see if and how that goes, but EA is not up to funding another Anthem. Crystal ball right? Or another "source"?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 27, 2019 17:58:36 GMT
If you got this ages ago why didnt you share it then? - Hey Casey, some schmuck on the BSN just said he got an email today about stuff we're working on Mass Effect. - Well, that's weird. Hey, wasn't that new guy, Charlie in the room with the storyboarding stuff like one hour ago? - Yeah. - Tell Charlie he's fired. And make his life hell by making sure he never finds work in the industry again and sue his ass for everything his got and his grandad's dentures. Thanks, Mac. Never say anything that is fresh, right off the bat. Not unless someone else has already covered it. You're going to get someone fired and they're also going to be having a very bad time, for a very long time. You sign a disclosure agreement when you sign up for these jobs. BTW, Charlie is a random name I made up for my leaker. I wouldn't be that goddamn stupid to give off their first name. Also, like I've already said, I expect some of the information I've been fed is intentionally wrong. Plus I doubt they'd cave in like this. Define cave in.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 27, 2019 17:59:23 GMT
Crystal ball right? Or another "source"? Female intuition.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 27, 2019 18:04:58 GMT
If you got this ages ago why didnt you share it then? - Hey Casey, some schmuck on the BSN just said he got an email today about stuff we're working on Mass Effect. - Well, that's weird. Hey, wasn't that new guy, Charlie in the room with the storyboarding stuff like one hour ago? - Yeah. - Tell Charlie he's fired. And make his life hell by making sure he never finds work in the industry again and sue his ass for everything his got and his grandad's dentures. Thanks, Mac. Never say anything that is fresh, right off the bat. Not unless someone else has already covered it. You're going to get someone fired and they're also going to be having a very bad time, for a very long time. You sign a disclosure agreement when you sign up for these jobs. BTW, Charlie is a random name I made up for my leaker. I wouldn't be that goddamn stupid to give off their first name. Also, like I've already said, I expect some of the information I've been fed is intentionally wrong. Plus I doubt they'd cave in like this. Define cave in. Possibly all of it is wrong. You dont know and I never trust leaks. By caving in I mean doing what some fans want instead of what they want to do. I know a sequel to Andromeda could be unlikely but I hope they have the bslls to finish what they started. If not I'll still enjoy it but mourn what could have been. Also I'd be very skeptical about their next ME game and watch it closely to decide.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 27, 2019 18:09:38 GMT
By caving in I mean doing what some fans want instead of what they want to do. Maybe they do. Do you claim to know better than them what they want to do? I know a sequel to Andromeda could be unlikely but I hope they have the bslls to finish what they started I hope and wish they do, too, but I genuinely believe the timing for that is wrong. Also I'd be very skeptical about their next ME game and watch it closely to decide. As you should do for every game and every publisher.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 27, 2019 18:12:32 GMT
By caving in I mean doing what some fans want instead of what they want to do. Maybe they do. Do you claim to know better than them what they want to do? I know a sequel to Andromeda could be unlikely but I hope they have the bslls to finish what they started I hope and wish they do, too, but I genuinely believe the timing for that is wrong. Also I'd be very skeptical about their next ME game and watch it closely to decide. As you should do for every game and every publisher. They wouldn't end a game with hints for another if that wasn't the intent. But you're right I don't know what they want for sure just going off past behavior. Maybe the timing is wrong but wait too long and it's irrelevant. True but I dont usually gave to with Bioware and only will if they backpedal.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 27, 2019 18:21:57 GMT
They wouldn't end a game with hints for another if that wasn't the intent I think they intended to follow up on those with DLC etc. You'll get closure through books and related media, as Casey promised, instead. I mean, the studio shut down, so it's not like they can follow up on that. Maybe the timing is wrong but wait too long and it's irrelevant That's not a good thing.
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