linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 20, 2019 21:13:46 GMT
Illusive Man and Irenicus are the only two I can comfortably say are great. Solas might be a third. The rest....serviceable sure but forgettable ultimately. Jon Irenicus was excellently done, friggin Sovereign (I hated Harbinger tbh), LOGHAIN, hell even Master Li was written well for an otherwise average game. I do like Loghain, but if you really think about it his shtick is just paranoid racism and stupidity. Sovereign is overrated, Master Li is a good twist more than a good villain. He is better than Sarevok, Corypheus, Saren and Malak though.
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Post by 10k on Feb 20, 2019 21:15:24 GMT
Illusive Man and Irenicus are the only two I can comfortably say are great. Solas might be a third. The rest....serviceable sure but forgettable ultimately. Loghain Mac Tir forgettable...? Whaaaat?
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 20, 2019 21:18:23 GMT
Illusive Man and Irenicus are the only two I can comfortably say are great. Solas might be a third. The rest....serviceable sure but forgettable ultimately. Loghain Mac Tir forgettable...? Whaaaat? Can you explain his motivations for me?
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Post by inquisitor007 on Feb 20, 2019 21:20:20 GMT
It wouldn't surprise me if Anthem started out as more of a single-player adventure with prominent multi-player elements (more of a destiny clone) and then was forced to become something else. But... it is a Destiny clone now. I don't know if I agree. With Anthem they're trying to position it as a multiplayer experience by default. But much of destiny was a single-player experience. The vast majority of the game could easily be played just by yourself. With raids and strikes and the crucible you needed to have people with you. But destiny's role-playing aspect - the personal quest - was very much a single player thing. Furthermore, Destiny 1 had very few microtransactions, almost as though they were an afterthought. It wouldn't surprise me if EA had little interest in such a design scheme.
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 20, 2019 21:23:39 GMT
Does anyone know how Bioware Edmonton ended up working on this title? The game doesn't interest me at all, but I'm curious as to why they put this out in the first place. It's so different from anything else they've done in the past two decades. I can only think of three ways they ended up with this project. EA had a looter shooter they wanted developed and specifically handed it off to Bioware. EA wanted to make a looter shooter and asked if any studios wanted to make it and Bioware took the chance to do something different. EA solicited ideas for a new game and Bioware had this idea which EA green lit.
Don't think EA is responsible for the choice perse, other than setting the framework they work within. This is Bioware poorly thought out attempt(imo) to seek its master's approval via attempting a hybrid looter shooter.
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Post by 10k on Feb 20, 2019 21:30:19 GMT
Loghain Mac Tir forgettable...? Whaaaat? Can you explain his motivations for me? Well first I'm going to preface by saying I haven't played the game in a very long time. But as I can remember he wanted a stronger rulership for ferelden. His motivations were wanting more for his country. He wasn't a powerseeker like most villains, which is why at the end of the game he ultimately sides with the wardens. The man only wanted best for his country.
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Post by river82 on Feb 20, 2019 21:39:55 GMT
I'm listening to SkillUp who's actually doing a fairly comprehensive analysis, and right now he's saying Bioware are not hiding the repetition from the player and it's painfully obvious, and the thing that popped into my head was Dragon Age 2 caves xD
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 20, 2019 21:40:13 GMT
Can you explain his motivations for me? Well first I'm going to preface by saying I haven't played the game in a very long time. But as I can remember he wanted a stronger rulership for ferelden. His motivations were wanting more for his country. He wasn't a powerseeker like most villains, which is why at the end of the game he ultimately sides with the wardens. The man only wanted best for his country. All true from his perspective. The problem is he contradicts that perspective constantly because of a paranoia of Orlais. His motivation does not match his actions or even choice of allies, such as Howe. I love loghain because he's a tragic villain, but ultimately his acts as a villain is to cause chaos because of stupidity and fear, coming from one of the best tactical minds per the lore. It always bothered me that contradiction.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 20, 2019 21:42:09 GMT
Can you explain his motivations for me? Well first I'm going to preface by saying I haven't played the game in a very long time. But as I can remember he wanted a stronger rulership for ferelden. His motivations were wanting more for his country. He wasn't a powerseeker like most villains, which is why at the end of the game he ultimately sides with the wardens. The man only wanted best for his country. I think he was, but like with most real world power seekers, in his mind, there is no distinction between the "good of the country" and his own power grab and sometimes his conscious actions lean more towards one side or the other. IMO that is exactly what made him such a great villain in the first place, because his convoluted motivations were very life-like. A very Nixon-esque character if you ask me.
BTW, I disagree with linksocarina on the BW villains in more than this. I also really liked Saren as a villain, especially if you read Revelation and thus knew a little more about his backstory. He also was lured in by the combination of seeking power for himself and thinking he was doing the right thing, first for his species, than for all organics even.
Revan (not directly a villain but held up as one for the longest part of the game) and Master Li from Jade Empire were mainly very effective because of their plot twists.
TIM was not too bad, intrinsically an interesting character but he suffered IMO from requiring too many convoluted explanations to allow him to exist in this way in the first place (the whole Cerberus conundrum in ME2/3 that empowers him) and his integration into the overall lore was kinda screwed up. Of course, it didn't really help that his appearance on the screen was basically always an indication that now Shepard would get railroaded and player choice was suspended.
The Qunari (and the Arishok in DA2) also were interesting villains because with the Qun they just have this completely different and incompatible but not necessarily entirely invalid philosophy.
I do agree that Solas has a lot of potential, we'll see where that leads us.
Most of the other BW villains such as Malak, Corypheus or the Archon were indeed fairly standard, not necessarily ineffective just not that memorable.
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 20, 2019 21:50:52 GMT
Well first I'm going to preface by saying I haven't played the game in a very long time. But as I can remember he wanted a stronger rulership for ferelden. His motivations were wanting more for his country. He wasn't a powerseeker like most villains, which is why at the end of the game he ultimately sides with the wardens. The man only wanted best for his country. I think he was, but like with most real world power seekers, in his mind, there is no distinction between the "good of the country" and his own power grab and sometimes his conscious action lean more towrds one or the other. IMO that is exactly what made him such a great villain in the first place, because his convoluted motivations were very life-like. A very Nixon-esque character if you ask me.
BTW, I disagree with linksocarina on the BW villains in more than this. I also really liked Saren as a villain, especially if you read Revelation and thus knew a little more about his backstory. He also was lured in by the combiantion of seeking power for himself and thinking he was doing the right thing. Revan (not directly a villain but held up as one for the longest part of the game) and Master Li from Jade emire were mainly very effective because of their plot twists.
TIM was not too bad, intrinsically an interesting character but he suffered IMO from requiring too may convoluted explanations to allow him to exist in this way in the first place (the whole Cerberus conundrum in ME2/3 that empowers him) and his integration into the overall lore was kinda screwed up.
The Qunari (and the Arishok in Da2) also were interesting villains because with the Qun they just have this completely different but not necessarily entirely invalid philosophy.
I do agree that Solas has a lot of potential, we'll see where that leads us.
Most of the other BW villains such as Corypheus or the Archon were indeed fairly standard, not necessarily ineffective just not that memorable.
I was thinking more Trump than Nixon, but that fits too. I never saw the Arishok as a villain. Antagonist sure but thats a perspective issue regarding the Qun. Saren is not that impressive honestly...because we see so little of him in game. His motivation is an empty platitude and his presence is rarely noticed other than the chase for him. The book is not good enough to justify it, that's just extra information on his backstory and character motivation, like Kai Leng who was also weak.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Feb 20, 2019 21:52:51 GMT
Sorry to not join in here but I don't think the old "Evil EA forced them" lament is holding much water in this case. As I remember it, Casey and a lot of people on the old ME3 team moved on to project Dylan pretty quickly after ME3 was out (IIRC it was in 2013). Of course, all we had back then were rumors but those did mention that after about 10 years on Mass Effect they wanted to do something very different (and who can blame them). As an MP and coop focused open world looter shooter with flying mechanics, Anthem certainly fits that bill and I have never heard even a whisper that the project got refocused since then. Also, don't forget that in the heydays of ME3 MP, a lot of people on the BW forums and elsewhere were screaming for coop gameplay in BW campaigns and whatnot ("why can't we play the story as coop with those squad mates?!?!?!"). In concept, a title like Anthem must have made perfect sense in 2013. So I really doubt anyone forced anyone's hand there. And hey, to be honest, I get it. After 10 years (more if you count KotOR, which they were working on before), I understand that you may want to try your hand at something new. In the end, I am just hoping all those ventures into new things (and their overall rather medicore success with it), they might now be ready to a little bit back to the roots maybe? Who knows. doubtful EA wanted a piece of the destiny pie. The problem with that is the WOW effect. Why play anthem if your friends are all playing Destiny 2 or the division 2? Even if anthem was better the player base would have been low which is the death of "live bullshit" ahem..."live service games". Now, how do you fight that? With an established, devoted fanbase. E.G. you make Bioware produce the game, you lie during the lead up marketing by saying it will feel like a proper Bioware game and you trick the proverbial frog by slowly telling the truth in bits and pieces right before launch "hey guys...no romances, no companions/squadmates no choices, no consequences, no replayable campaign". Notice also how Anthem repeats the same mistakes as destiny almost as if someone went to biowate mid cycle, tossed a copy of destiny on the table and said "you see that? Make me THAT" which EA has done before btw
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 20, 2019 21:54:04 GMT
The book is not good enough to justify it, that's just extra information on his backstory and character motivation Mow that is a matter of perspective and I disagree with you there.
As for Kai Leng, he was somewhat interesting in Retribution but the game seemed to rather use hhis template from Deception or something. Needless to say, in ME3, he was an abomination.
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Post by river82 on Feb 20, 2019 22:02:19 GMT
And now SkillUp is saying that enemies materialising out of nowhere means implementing strategy during the fight is impossible. Yes! That was also a key criticism of Dragon Age 2's wave combat, or as it was more colloquially known, "it's raining men combat".
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Post by OdanUrr on Feb 20, 2019 22:04:39 GMT
And now SkillUp is saying that enemies materialising out of nowhere means implementing strategy during the fight is impossible. Yes! That was also a key criticism of Dragon Age 2's wave combat, or as it was more colloquially known, "it's raining men combat". Far worse is getting to an area and being mercilessly subjected to enemy fire from nowhere because the enemies haven't even spawned yet!
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 20, 2019 22:16:59 GMT
And now SkillUp is saying that enemies materialising out of nowhere means implementing strategy during the fight is impossible. Yes! That was also a key criticism of Dragon Age 2's wave combat, or as it was more colloquially known, "it's raining men combat". Far worse is getting to an area and being mercilessly subjected to enemy fire from nowhere because the enemies haven't even spawned yet! I am really skeptical of Bioware's ability to achieve technical proficiency with Frostbite. And I don't think it's all the engine's fault. In fact I would be more inclined to argue that it is not the engine's fault at all ... that is just an easy excuse for Bioware to make.
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Post by saandrig on Feb 20, 2019 22:22:36 GMT
And now SkillUp is saying that enemies materialising out of nowhere means implementing strategy during the fight is impossible. Yes! That was also a key criticism of Dragon Age 2's wave combat, or as it was more colloquially known, "it's raining men combat". Far worse is getting to an area and being mercilessly subjected to enemy fire from nowhere because the enemies haven't even spawned yet! Just happened to me in Freeplay. Worst yet, I was trying my first GM1 roam. I was down before even realizing what was going on. I went back for revenge only to valiantly get killed again. Then the game booted me out because the instance creator (first player there) logged out. Apparently this bug is not fixed yet.
I spent half my time tonight trying to get past technical issues. Quickplay was seriously crap. It kept backfilling me into missions where players have disconnected because the game tries to load a cutscene. Then I watch the cutscene (unskippable btw) after a long load and get nothing at the end. Do you know how many times I have seen a certain big cutscene tonight? Seriously, be mindful if you want to do Quickplay atm. Half the time it throws you into missions where something is preventing players to play and they quit.
And there was a campaign mission where a chest spawns for you to loot. However the chest is a bit far from the defense point you just had to protect and you rush to the chest, but the game boots you out before you can open it cuz mission ends in 2 seconds... Nice trolling, Bioware At least that is supposed to get fixed.
The sound glitch is back with a vengeance.
So many of those problems could have been found and avoided with a beta. But then I guess people would have seen the game for what it is sooner than Bioware wanted.
On the bright side - second Masterwork drop. A nice Scout gun with 33 % chance to deal huge electrical damage. Shield buster! I am so torn between it and the Devastator.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 20, 2019 22:22:50 GMT
And now SkillUp is saying that enemies materialising out of nowhere means implementing strategy during the fight is impossible. Yes! That was also a key criticism of Dragon Age 2's wave combat, or as it was more colloquially known, "it's raining men combat". That always irritates me in games. If I clear a room I should be able to turn my back to it and use its door as cover without having to worry about enemies spawning behind me in the room I just cleared.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 20, 2019 22:53:50 GMT
Far worse is getting to an area and being mercilessly subjected to enemy fire from nowhere because the enemies haven't even spawned yet! I am really skeptical of Bioware's ability to achieve technical proficiency with Frostbite. And I don't think it's all the engine's fault. In fact I would be more inclined to argue that it is not the engine's fault at all ... that is just an easy excuse for Bioware to make. So far Frostbite 3 has successfully been used for bog standard PVP shooters, sports games, and Need For Speed. And then you have Bioware's attempts. I think it's a combination of not being well suited for RPG-ish games and BioWare just not being up to the task. They made a big mistake switching over to it, everything they've done with it so far could have been better and simpler in UE4. Shit go look at Mass Effect 2 and 3, they still look good!
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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 20, 2019 22:55:03 GMT
I don't know if I agree. With Anthem they're trying to position it as a multiplayer experience by default. But much of destiny was a single-player experience. The vast majority of the game could easily be played just by yourself. With raids and strikes and the crucible you needed to have people with you. But destiny's role-playing aspect - the personal quest - was very much a single player thing. Furthermore, Destiny 1 had very few microtransactions, almost as though they were an afterthought. It wouldn't surprise me if EA had little interest in such a design scheme. I totally agree, Destiny has a true singleplayer campaign, designed to be experienced solo. One can argue the is campaign short, generic and (for the most part) shallow, but it is still a singleplayer campaign. Perhaps Anthem did have that design in mind, but what we ended up getting is a full-on multiplayer game, and I believe multiplayer is thrown at the player the way it is due to the heavy focus on micro-transactions Anthem has built-in. EA knows there are people who don't get into the endgame, they play the campaign and shelf the game afterwards (I know some who did that with Destiny). Being a Bioware game, we can bet there will be lots of people buying Anthem for the campaign alone. Since Anthem's Hub does not support multiplayer (unlike Destiny's), EA probably just had to come up with a way to connect players somehow, so they can see each other, show off their loot and such. Hence we got this weird and unnatural multiplayer campaign design.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 20, 2019 23:25:15 GMT
Oh, by the way guys, did you ever wonder what it would feel like to suit up in a Javelin in real life? Then check this out:
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Feb 21, 2019 0:13:08 GMT
Is it true that BioWare Austin will be doing post-launch support for Anthem ? SWTOR guys ? I hope this is just a gossip, as these guys are barely able to deliver 2h DLC twice a year...
Btw. I just cannot believe that it took 6 years to do... so little. MEA was having 5 years BUT 3 years of development landed in the bin (which was confirmed by different sources). So MEA have different planets, companions, talks, ship, main story + sub-quests; Anthem got what ? half-empty hub, 1 map, no companions, short story + same sub-quests...
I think that whatever Project Dylan was in 2013, this is not what people get in 2019.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 21, 2019 1:45:38 GMT
Is it true that BioWare Austin will be doing post-launch support for Anthem ? SWTOR guys ? I hope this is just a gossip, as these guys are barely able to deliver 2h DLC twice a year...
Btw. I just cannot believe that it took 6 years to do... so little. MEA was having 5 years BUT 3 years of development landed in the bin (which was confirmed by different sources). So MEA have different planets, companions, talks, ship, main story + sub-quests; Anthem got what ? half-empty hub, 1 map, no companions, short story + same sub-quests...
I think that whatever Project Dylan was in 2013, this is not what people get in 2019.
When the inevitable behind-the-scenes story of Anthem's reboot is finally revealed I am going to rub it in some faces here so fucking hard
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Post by 10k on Feb 21, 2019 2:28:21 GMT
angryjoe has put up his rant
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 21, 2019 2:54:35 GMT
I can't believe there is dumb shit like this in this game. i.imgur.com/EGbFxck.jpg"99+" It knows how much I have because it displays the full amount (400 some-odd) on the actual crafting screen. But "99+" here. Unbelievable.
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