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Post by cloud9 on Mar 12, 2018 1:48:10 GMT
I think is safe to say that BioWare has been officially screwed at this point. This has been obvious for a long time. The very best game writers -- Hideo Kojima, Yoko Taro, Chris Avellone, Erik Wolpaw, Ken Levine and Ron Gilbert -- have never even worked on Anthem! If that's not a vote of "no confidence" in Bioware and EA, I don't know what is. What is that supposed to mean?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 12, 2018 1:57:09 GMT
Might be overeating a little bit IMO. He's apparently a good writer, I've liked what I've heard he has done in games and his books get good reviews. But, its not like he is the only writer of theirs whose stuff I liked. Lot of key devs were leaving BioWare during the development of Andromeda, and look how that turned out. *looks at Andromeda* A really fun and good game was released?
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 12, 2018 2:00:25 GMT
Lot of key devs were leaving BioWare during the development of Andromeda, and look how that turned out. *looks at Andromeda* A really fun and good game was released? Just because *you* enjoyed it doesn't mean that others should enjoy what you like, and it doesn't change the fact that the game received a lot of negative reviews of the game's performance.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 12, 2018 2:07:28 GMT
*looks at Andromeda* A really fun and good game was released? Just because *you* enjoyed it doesn't mean that others should enjoy what you like, and it doesn't change the fact that the game received a lot of negative reviews of the game's performance. I never said other should enjoy what I like. You said to look at how Andromeda turned out as a way of predicting Anthem's fate, in which I replied how I saw the game thus why this news doesn't frighten me about Anthem.
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Post by mattfon on Mar 12, 2018 6:32:10 GMT
When it bombs let's be sure to make clear that it was EA's fault for pushing too much multiplayer. hopefully we can shift the blame away from Bioware.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 12, 2018 8:03:57 GMT
When it bombs let's be sure to make clear that it was EA's fault for pushing too much multiplayer. hopefully we can shift the blame away from Bioware. Bioware. A division of EA.
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Post by biggydx on Mar 12, 2018 14:35:28 GMT
It's sad to see the guy leave, but considering how long these people have been working at Bioware I also don't know anyones surprised. You can't expect these people to work at the same company for the rest of their lives; or even gaming for that matter. The constant crunch times would probably take its toll on anyone. You just hope they can continue finding quality talent to fill the ranks. I will say though that it seems like Bioware can never escape the watchful eyes of gamers whenever someone leaves; something many other long-standing development companies don't have to deal with. While I want to wait until we get more information about the game, I will say that people need to stop assuming that Drew is the only good writer for Bioware.
John Dombrow is a another good writer for the team, and was not only responsible for the Priority: Surkesh, Tuchanka, and Thessia missions (as well as associated characters), but he also wrote the entire story for Mass Effect 2's "Overlord" DLC, a story that people liked. He also did the "Buried at Sea" DLC for Bioshock: Infinite. I'm sure most people have never even heard of him; including myself (prior to Drew leaving and me getting curious). I don't know if he's working on Anthem, but Bioware isn't just Drew; he just gets most of the spotlight. Hell, even Mac Walters was working with him as lead writer for Mass Effect 2.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: GVArcian
XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
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Post by Arcian on Mar 12, 2018 17:14:27 GMT
Or you could just wait and see the product. Crazy idea, I know. We did this with Andromeda and it was garbage.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 12, 2018 18:06:03 GMT
Or you could just wait and see the product. Crazy idea, I know. We did this with Andromeda and it was garbage. And you knew that because you saw the product and were able to make an informed judgement, point? EDIT:I don’t actually agree that it was garbage, still, the point is that you came to that conclusion by actually looking at the game.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 12, 2018 20:17:29 GMT
Or you could just wait and see the product. Crazy idea, I know. We did this with Andromeda and it was garbage. Funny, I didn't think Andromeda was garbage, I don't think it was BioWare's best showing, but there are plenty of other games out there that are far worse.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 12, 2018 21:23:48 GMT
We did this with Andromeda and it was garbage. Funny, I didn't think Andromeda was garbage, I don't think it was BioWare's best showing, but there are plenty of other games out there that are far worse. "ME:A" was the "Mass Effect" series' "DA2"...rushed out the door by the publisher before it was ready but still fun and playable. Almost a year later, I'm still playing it and I've almost finished a "100%" run through.
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N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,647 Likes: 12,855
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 12, 2018 21:33:14 GMT
Funny, I didn't think Andromeda was garbage, I don't think it was BioWare's best showing, but there are plenty of other games out there that are far worse. "ME:A" was the "Mass Effect" series' "DA2"...rushed out the door by the publisher before it was ready but still fun and playable. Almost a year later, I'm still playing it and I've almost finished a "100%" run through. I just finished my 100% run last week. i was actually initially harsh on Andromeda, but it grew on me with time.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 12, 2018 21:40:39 GMT
"ME:A" was the "Mass Effect" series' "DA2"...rushed out the door by the publisher before it was ready but still fun and playable. Almost a year later, I'm still playing it and I've almost finished a "100%" run through. I just finished my 100% run last week. i was actually initially harsh on Andromeda, but it grew on me with time. I find it's immersive if you really buy into it. I find it's easier to dive in if I use a game+ save and can zip around in a fully upgraded Nomad. After a while, you just get into a rhythm. What I usually do now is complete everything I can - all Nexus mission and loyalty missions, 100% viability on all planets, all side quests, all "Task:" quests, all Architect battles - before going to the Archon's ship to rescue the Salarian Ark. From there, I find it funnels nicely towards the Meridian missions and the conclusion.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 13, 2018 4:10:44 GMT
Or you could just wait and see the product. Crazy idea, I know. We did this with Andromeda and it was garbage. And they called Andromeda a AAA game, and it looked like a disaster. BioWare is really pathetic right now.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Mar 13, 2018 11:45:18 GMT
Concerning Andromeda I was willing to believe all the departures and the rumors are just that, people finishing their jobs and rumors. Now I see the same for Anthem, also with not fulfilled promises of more info as there was in Andromeda. Fool me once...
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 14, 2018 2:28:06 GMT
Concerning Andromeda I was willing to believe all the departures and the rumors are just that, people finishing their jobs and rumors. Now I see the same for Anthem, also with not fulfilled promises of more info as there was in Andromeda. Fool me once... Andromeda had a big change in 2014 when Mac came on and hauled it together in a new direction. The lead writer left almost two years later and I think the final script seemed heavily iterated upon the new "co-leads" while keeping the macro-level plot as it was. ME2's Garrus romance made Drew go "WHAT!?" when he saw that and that was added in the half year after his departure. Similarly the ME2 intro text crawl was written by Mac Walters and things like that. It's not proper of writers to quit because their core work is done. Anthem is going to cut and change from now to its release, that's games development. This means Drew will not be there to fix anything if any of his currently finished work has to be cut or adapted to new changes and that's when other writers come in to bastardize his work. Another case. Ann Lemay wrote Drack. She left in 2016, then an editor "Ben Gelinas" took over and wrote the Kadara bar scene that ripped off lines from The Avengers like a terrible fanfiction because duh he wasn't actually a story-writer. When Drew had left Patrick Weekes had free rein to make Garrus your body-pillow. it's stuff like that and the point is, Anthem would be better if Drew could sit still and not run off to do a million things and the world is doomed etc.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 14, 2018 2:38:13 GMT
It's sad to see the guy leave, but considering how long these people have been working at Bioware I also don't know anyones surprised. You can't expect these people to work at the same company for the rest of their lives; or even gaming for that matter. The constant crunch times would probably take its toll on anyone. You just hope they can continue finding quality talent to fill the ranks. I will say though that it seems like Bioware can never escape the watchful eyes of gamers whenever someone leaves; something many other long-standing development companies have to deal with. While I want to wait until we get more information about the game, I will say that people need to stop assuming that Drew is the only good writer for Bioware. John Dombrow is a another good writer for the team, and was not only responsible for the Priority: Surkesh, Tuchanka, and Thessia missions (as well as associated characters), but he also wrote the entire story for Mass Effect 2's "Overlord" DLC, a story that people liked. He also did the "Buried at Sea" DLC for Bioshock: Infinite. I'm sure most people have never even heard of him; including myself (prior to Drew leaving and me getting curious). I don't know if he's working on Anthem, but Bioware isn't just Drew; he just gets most of the spotlight. Hell, even Mac Walters was working with him as lead writer for Mass Effect 2. Newsflash! People like crap. John Dombrow is overrated as heck and Overlord was a dumb DLC that everyone liked because it has #Emotion at the end (some circlejerk about an equation that the characters reiterate to cement the "deepness" of the story every chance they get... Mordin said "Had to be me etc." because Dombrow also did the same trick) Overlord had these stupid jumpscare things. It was the first time before the other ME2 DLC where I thought "Huh, Mass Effect feels kinda dumbed down now" but at the time I went with it because it was DLC, like "hey this is bonus content and this is awesome". Frankly I can go with a bit of sillyness in the vibe of the Commander Shepard song so long as the main story keeps it real which it did in ME2---eeerrrrrr I mean world building of the main plot. I always liken modern BioWare writing to "fanfiction" and I've seen many other people, outside of this board mind you, do the same. I think that "fanfiction" esque quality I first noticed in the Kasumi DLC when the animation suddenly looked like a Disney cartoon and didn't aim for realism when she jumps onto Donovan's ship. Then in Lair of the Shadow Broker that was the first time I felt the dialogue itself had a kind of cheap "wannabe [insert that movie] movie" feel to it. Dialogue can be super stiff, super unnatural in ME1 but it had so much idea to it. ME2 DLC was when it started aiming downwards towards "Ooh I wanna write it like that movie I love so much, I'll recreate that scene!" and point is: Dombrow came on board as a DLC writer and so did Sylvia Feketekuty who both went on to main stuff in ME3 and ME3 was the game when BioWare lost me... before the ending, and thus ENTER THE ERA OF BIOWARE ARE FANFICTION WRITERS. Dombrow is overrated.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 22, 2018 0:11:22 GMT
BioWare 1995-2017
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 22, 2018 13:10:39 GMT
Got to love the pundits presumptions on everything. I guess if you repeat it enough it becomes a fact. But this is why I can't take anyone seriously in the end. Most of this is just talking heads spouting opinions. Fun to listen to sometimes sure, but never to be taken as gospel, especially if they confirm your personal biases.
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N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 22, 2018 13:17:26 GMT
It's sad to see the guy leave, but considering how long these people have been working at Bioware I also don't know anyones surprised. You can't expect these people to work at the same company for the rest of their lives; or even gaming for that matter. The constant crunch times would probably take its toll on anyone. You just hope they can continue finding quality talent to fill the ranks. I will say though that it seems like Bioware can never escape the watchful eyes of gamers whenever someone leaves; something many other long-standing development companies have to deal with. While I want to wait until we get more information about the game, I will say that people need to stop assuming that Drew is the only good writer for Bioware. John Dombrow is a another good writer for the team, and was not only responsible for the Priority: Surkesh, Tuchanka, and Thessia missions (as well as associated characters), but he also wrote the entire story for Mass Effect 2's "Overlord" DLC, a story that people liked. He also did the "Buried at Sea" DLC for Bioshock: Infinite. I'm sure most people have never even heard of him; including myself (prior to Drew leaving and me getting curious). I don't know if he's working on Anthem, but Bioware isn't just Drew; he just gets most of the spotlight. Hell, even Mac Walters was working with him as lead writer for Mass Effect 2. Newsflash! People like crap. John Dombrow is overrated as heck and Overlord was a dumb DLC that everyone liked because it has #Emotion at the end (some circlejerk about an equation that the characters reiterate to cement the "deepness" of the story every chance they get... Mordin said "Had to be me etc." because Dombrow also did the same trick) Overlord had these stupid jumpscare things. It was the first time before the other ME2 DLC where I thought "Huh, Mass Effect feels kinda dumbed down now" but at the time I went with it because it was DLC, like "hey this is bonus content and this is awesome". Frankly I can go with a bit of sillyness in the vibe of the Commander Shepard song so long as the main story keeps it real which it did in ME2---eeerrrrrr I mean world building of the main plot. I always liken modern BioWare writing to "fanfiction" and I've seen many other people, outside of this board mind you, do the same. I think that "fanfiction" esque quality I first noticed in the Kasumi DLC when the animation suddenly looked like a Disney cartoon and didn't aim for realism when she jumps onto Donovan's ship. Then in Lair of the Shadow Broker that was the first time I felt the dialogue itself had a kind of cheap "wannabe [insert that movie] movie" feel to it. Dialogue can be super stiff, super unnatural in ME1 but it had so much idea to it. ME2 DLC was when it started aiming downwards towards "Ooh I wanna write it like that movie I love so much, I'll recreate that scene!" and point is: Dombrow came on board as a DLC writer and so did Sylvia Feketekuty who both went on to main stuff in ME3 and ME3 was the game when BioWare lost me... before the ending, and thus ENTER THE ERA OF BIOWARE ARE FANFICTION WRITERS. Dombrow is overrated. So is Karpyshyn, what's your point? Or is this a display of personal preference that is again seen as something factual? Then again, it's easy to claim something as fanfiction, I guess. Although I got to say what you consider fanfiction is more or less par for the course when it comes to video game narrative expectations. Planescape Torment is the best written game of all time, and it also suffers from problems with its narrative and pacing by virtue of it's design. Hell, Knights of the Old Republic...terribly written to be honest. Avellone did a better job hating on Star Wars canon in Knights of the Old Republic 2, it's the Last Jedi of Star Wars video games. But, it's fondly remembered because of the time capsule of it's release. Writing for video games was weak and something that stood out, with a good twist and was genre-heavy into the nerd culture in 2002, hits strong there. Kotor did nothing with the source material but provide interesting characters with terrible narrative pacing and a weak plot. But thats ok, it fits well into what is more or less the standard for video games. Until we break out of that genre writing and embrace different narrative-styled games, the quality will be a bit on the weaker side. But every time the writers try to do something different, or build upon the expectations of what their fans want but everyone cries foul...well, nothing changes I guess.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 22, 2018 14:54:51 GMT
Got to love the pundits presumptions on everything. I guess if you repeat it enough it becomes a fact. But this is why I can't take anyone seriously in the end. Most of this is just talking heads spouting opinions. Fun to listen to sometimes sure, but never to be taken as gospel, especially if they confirm your personal biases. Ahh, "ass-pull speculation" = "Absolutes"...people actually take videos like this seriously?
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 22, 2018 15:11:08 GMT
Got to love the pundits presumptions on everything. I guess if you repeat it enough it becomes a fact. But this is why I can't take anyone seriously in the end. Most of this is just talking heads spouting opinions. Fun to listen to sometimes sure, but never to be taken as gospel, especially if they confirm your personal biases. Ahh, "ass-pull speculation" = "Absolutes"...people actually take videos like this seriously? A lot of people do I speculate. There was one Heimdall posted a while back that was the opposite perspective, telling folks to calm down over Drew K leaving. It's the same thing in the end though.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 22, 2018 15:14:15 GMT
Got to love the pundits presumptions on everything. I guess if you repeat it enough it becomes a fact. But this is why I can't take anyone seriously in the end. Most of this is just talking heads spouting opinions. Fun to listen to sometimes sure, but never to be taken as gospel, especially if they confirm your personal biases. Ahh, "ass-pull speculation" = "Absolutes"...people actually take videos like this seriously? The more there are, the more likely it is some believe there is something to it. That they all jump on clickbait bandwagon doesn't change anything about it.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 22, 2018 18:32:42 GMT
Got to love the pundits presumptions on everything. I guess if you repeat it enough it becomes a fact. But this is why I can't take anyone seriously in the end. Most of this is just talking heads spouting opinions. Fun to listen to sometimes sure, but never to be taken as gospel, especially if they confirm your personal biases. This is not personal it is actual facts that why BioWare is going downhill because of EA. And it explains a lot why Andromeda is a disaster because of troubled development, Frostbite engine that causes problems, and politics. But we'll see that Anthem will live up to it's name, because everyone's expecting the game to fail.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 22, 2018 18:35:38 GMT
Got to love the pundits presumptions on everything. I guess if you repeat it enough it becomes a fact. But this is why I can't take anyone seriously in the end. Most of this is just talking heads spouting opinions. Fun to listen to sometimes sure, but never to be taken as gospel, especially if they confirm your personal biases. because everyone's expecting the game to fail. "Dudes on BSN" = "everyone" Gotcha
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