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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 15, 2018 18:53:28 GMT
I think you're absolutely right that informed discussion should be the lead activity in our forum and should apply to most threads. But if there's anywhere where posters can indulge their cynicism and/or their fanboiism (if that's a word) it's probably these two threads. I respect your wish to debate the matter and typically I enjoy your posts, but these two threads are more about people expressing their feelings in line with a common theme, rather than arguing both the pros and cons. But how is claiming BioWare is worse then 90% of companies with communication and Bethesda is way better got anything to do with Skepticism about Anthem? I don't really see what "SJW propagandists" have got to do with the topic either, yet that's in a post above too. At some point, it just becomes mud slinging. Do you not think at that point you may have to back up your opinions with some sembelence of facts? It's a view. You may not agree with it (I probably don't either) But this is no more the place to make a big debate about it than to drop 'concerns' into the Hype thread. This is an extract from the OP: But we don't really have a thread where you can just come and share your general worries about Anthem, so here it is. Just to be clear, not every post needs to be 'full on doom and gloom', but posters are welcome to share their skepticism. We're not looking to get into fights with fan-boys/girls in this thread, mostly ignore them if they swing by, or direct them to their thread: The Anthem Hype Train - bsn.boards.net/thread/14134Occasionally we'll move other skeptical posts or threads in here that didn't really justify being a thread in their own right. That's it, I hope you will gain comfort, discussing your worries with other people who are legitimately concerned about Anthem. I hope that makes sense. If further discussion about the 'Skepticism/Hype' format is required, may I suggest take it to the Forum Feedback area?
And no, we're not going to start insulting each other either, please. I'll just move those.
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 15, 2018 18:57:10 GMT
But how is claiming BioWare is worse then 90% of companies with communication and Bethesda is way better got anything to do with Skepticism about Anthem? I don't really see what "SJW propagandists" have got to do with the topic either, yet that's in a post above too. At some point, it just becomes mud slinging. Do you not think at that point you may have to back up your opinions with some sembelence of facts? It's a view. You may not agree with it (I probably don't either) But this is no more the place to make a big debate about it than to drop 'concerns' into the Hype thread. This is an extract from the OP: But we don't really have a thread where you can just come and share your general worries about Anthem, so here it is. Just to be clear, not every post needs to be 'full on doom and gloom', but posters are welcome to share their skepticism. We're not looking to get into fights with fan-boys/girls in this thread, mostly ignore them if they swing by, or direct them to their thread: The Anthem Hype Train - bsn.boards.net/thread/14134Occasionally we'll move other skeptical posts or threads in here that didn't really justify being a thread in their own right. That's it, I hope you will gain comfort, discussing your worries with other people who are legitimately concerned about Anthem. I hope that makes sense. If further discussion about the 'Skepticism/Hype' format is required, may I suggest take it to the Forum Feedback area? I don't have a problem with some having severe worries about Anthem, but I do worry that there are some in this forum that use these threads as a way just to have a go at BioWare. You're right that this probably isn't the place to discuss it though.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 15, 2018 19:06:56 GMT
You're right that this probably isn't the place to discuss it though. Indeed. If people want to: - Vent about the killers of RPGs of old and forcing soulless MP 'down our throats' (without abusing devs or each other), or
- Squee about Anthem's exciting arrival to the extent of kissing Electronic Arts' rosy buttocks,
Then both of those things are fine within reason. Let's move on...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 3:56:06 GMT
The more I hear about Anthem's 'evolving over time shared world' the more skeptical I'm becoming. It's more from a game play standpoint rather than can they do it standpoint. Though I suppose that's a valid enough concern.
I'm a slow gamer as I have games that I haven't even started much less finished so my worry with Anthem and the changing world crap Bio seem to be so in love with is this... I play Anthem and say get about a quarter way through the main story arc and end up not touching the game for a few months then pick it back up and everything's different...
My gut reaction would be so say 'fuck it' uninstall Anthem and never play it again. Over reaction? Maybe. It all comes down to implantation I guess.
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Post by General Mahad on Jun 17, 2018 5:23:15 GMT
The more I hear about Anthem's 'evolving over time shared world' the more skeptical I'm becoming. Bungie tried that with Destiny and we all know how that turned out.
BioWare's world building strength was developing worlds that reacted to your choices not them evolving on their own. Unrealistic and predictable yes, but from that predictability, they could create branching stories and conflicts.
I don't see the same here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 5:44:08 GMT
The more I hear about Anthem's 'evolving over time shared world' the more skeptical I'm becoming. Bungie tried that with Destiny and we all know how that turned out.
BioWare's world building strength was developing worlds that reacted to your choices not them evolving on their own. Unrealistic and predictable yes, but from that predictability, they could create branching stories and conflicts.
I don't see the same here.
Never played Destiny so can't comment on that but I agree with the rest of what you said.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 18, 2018 2:28:20 GMT
The more I hear about Anthem's 'evolving over time shared world' the more skeptical I'm becoming. Bungie tried that with Destiny and we all know how that turned out.
BioWare's world building strength was developing worlds that reacted to your choices not them evolving on their own. Unrealistic and predictable yes, but from that predictability, they could create branching stories and conflicts.
I don't see the same here.
Bungie’s problem with Destiny wasn’t really the shared world part. Nothing in the actual design prevented them from creating a stronger narrative, just one we couldn’t individualize with a selection of world states to choose from. They gutted the narrative to the point where it was just a barebones formality to unlock parts of the maps and new missions. It suffered from a lot of development problems and then bits of it was fed back to us piecemeal in expansions.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 18, 2018 16:17:22 GMT
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Post by paznehtiovecka on Jun 18, 2018 17:33:16 GMT
Mass Effect 3 also had these binary choices paragon/renegate and nobody complained. So where is a problem? I know there is no problem. Only problem i have they didnt show conversation systems yet.
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Post by Camel on Jun 18, 2018 17:47:08 GMT
I think Bioware's main strength is their memorable characters and we have 4 bland bots so far in Anthem. On the other hand ME3 multiplayer was really great. So I'm conflicted.
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Post by Camel on Jun 18, 2018 18:05:29 GMT
Mass Effect 3 also had these binary choices paragon/renegate and nobody complained. So where is a problem? I know there is no problem. Only problem i have they didnt show conversation systems yet. Bio had to build a dialogues module for Frostbite from scratch and they struggled with it. So I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 18, 2018 18:08:57 GMT
Mass Effect 3 also had these binary choices paragon/renegate and nobody complained. So where is a problem? I know there is no problem. Only problem i have they didnt show conversation systems yet. I don't necessarily have a problem with some (!) options being binary (and in ME3, the issue why they had to stick to binary a lot was also because they had to deal with a shitload of branches from the saves already). I have a problem with this "our audience can't deal with complexity". I hate it when devs assume their audience is stupid. To me, this is on the level of "whenever you press a button, something awesome has to happen".
The way I see it, dialogue options shouldn't be set to a specific default number (not six and certainly not 2). It should be up to the situation. Sometimes, two choices are fine but very often in interesting stories, situations do get too complex to just always deal with them within binary choices all the time. Saying to restrict the options because the audience supposedly can't deal with more is just insulting to both, the audience and the authors alike IMO.
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 18, 2018 18:09:33 GMT
Mass Effect 3 also had these binary choices paragon/renegate and nobody complained. So where is a problem? I know there is no problem. Only problem i have they didnt show conversation systems yet. Bio had to build a dialogues module for Frostbite from scratch and they struggled with it. So I wouldn't hold my breath. They've produced two games already with Frostbite which had dialogue choices. I suspect they may have figured that part out with the engine already...
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 18, 2018 18:10:32 GMT
Bio had to build a dialogues module for Frostbite from scratch and they struggled with it. So I wouldn't hold my breath. Wait, what? The dialogue worked perfectly in DA:I, which was also Frostbite. EDIT: aaaand ed
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Post by paznehtiovecka on Jun 18, 2018 18:29:11 GMT
Bio had to build a dialogues module for Frostbite from scratch and they struggled with it. So I wouldn't hold my breath. Wait, what? The dialogue worked perfectly in DA:I, which was also Frostbite. EDIT: aaaand ed Yeah, that is probably why Mark referred to "six choices" for there were six choices max in dialogue tree. DA:I had basically the most complex dialogue wheel ever. And it was awesome.
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Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 18, 2018 18:30:11 GMT
Mass Effect 3 also had these binary choices paragon/renegate and nobody complained. So where is a problem? I know there is no problem. Only problem i have they didnt show conversation systems yet. I don't necessarily have a problem with some (!) options being binary (and in ME3, the issue why they had to stick to binary a lot was also because they already had to deal with a shitload of branches from the saves already). I have a problem with the this "our audience can't deal with complexity". I hate it when devs assume their audience is stupid. To me, this is on the level of "whenever you press a button, something awesome has to happen".
The way I see it, dialogue options shouldn't be set to a specific default number (not six and certainly not 2). It should be up to the situation. Sometimes, two choices are fine but very often in interesting stories, situations do get too complex to just always deal with them within binary choices all the time. Saying to restrict the options because the audience supposedly can't deal with more is just insulting to both, the audience and the authors alike IMO.
It didn’t sound like a strict limit to me, but yeah I don’t like that they want to limit it for fear of shooter fans being intimidated. It strikes me as the same kind of thing Bungie did before Destiny was released when they remarked that they didn’t think their fanbase was into reading. Lo and behold, fans have been asking for an in game codex ever since the release of Destiny (And may finally get it when the Forsaken DLC drops in September)
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Post by bshep on Jun 18, 2018 19:14:31 GMT
People should keep asking for a detailed codex to Mark, instead of doing the same question over and over on twitter. MEA codex was lacking a lot when it came to vehicles or wildlife for instance.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 18, 2018 20:40:11 GMT
On the ‘professional critics expressing disappointment with BioWare’s presentation’ front, Jim Sterling declared Anthem one of the losers of E3. Skip to 6:48 to hear his argument.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jun 18, 2018 20:52:23 GMT
Omg can somebody shoot Bioware in the head behind the shed already and do everyone a favor?!
This is just sad at this point.
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Post by paznehtiovecka on Jun 18, 2018 21:08:04 GMT
On the ‘professional critics expressing disappointment with BioWare’s presentation’ front, Jim Sterling declared Anthem one of the losers of E3. Skip to 6:48 to hear his argument. Another one "profesional critics" who haven't see or play the E3 demo. Everyone who did, professional or casual expressed nothing more than positive thoughts. To Starling defence and to everyone who had negative impression i can see why they thought what they thought for the gameplay trailer was dreadfully cut together and overall entire presentation did not compliment this game at all. Shite marketing is shite and i dont know who is to blame. Ea or Bioware.
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Post by river82 on Jun 18, 2018 23:04:22 GMT
So the ability to choose how to respond is an "intimidating thing"? Jesus Christ ...
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Post by Iakus on Jun 18, 2018 23:13:23 GMT
Bioware really doesn't think very highly of their customers, do they?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 23:25:43 GMT
So the ability to choose how to respond is an "intimidating thing"? Jesus Christ ... You know that sounds an awful lot like the crappy defense that was given for removing the crystal system in SW:TOR for buying end game gear. The excuse went as I recall something along the line of "New players find the crystal system intimidating so we're replacing it with Galactic Command." -- Ben Irving. And guess who's game director of Anthem... Ben Irving.
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Post by General Mahad on Jun 18, 2018 23:54:16 GMT
“You know what we need guys? Less dialogue options.” -Guy who wasn’t kicked out of the design meeting.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Jun 19, 2018 0:36:59 GMT
While the justification seems stupid to be fair the whole crystal system on SWTOR was a grindfest: having to participate in several operations just to be able to buy one piece plus everyone (8 or 16 players) having to "fight" for a piece of loot from a boss wasn't that great.
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