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Post by phoray on Dec 31, 2018 19:31:44 GMT
hen even if I bought into it for the wrong reasons I will end up staying for the right ones! I like this. It's like skeptical optimism.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Dec 31, 2018 19:58:54 GMT
I mean, what else are they going to say? If there was any time to be skeptical about a PR statement, this is it. Wishing a business disaster on Anthem is just playing Russian Roulette with the future of Bioware. I don't care what they say publicly, it's obvious that if Anthem bombs, things are going to change for Bioware. Like, all of the microtransaction revenue they were hoping to get from Anthem will now have to be made up by DA4. You want paywalls and mtx in your next DA? Go ahead and keep wishing for Anthems demise. While I agree that it’s not wise to hope for anthems failure, I don’t think your conclusion follows. They aren’t going to say oh we made lots of money on anthem, let’s drop live services from other games. No. They will want live service mtx in all games going forward to maximize their profits. There is no correlation with how anthem does at all. Remember they rebooted da4 to add more live services already, whatever that will mean. And no, it’s naive to think all it means is dlc business as usual. Time will tell though. ETA : I should add, that’s my own guess, which also may be inaccurate.
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Post by wright1978 on Dec 31, 2018 20:02:21 GMT
I mean, what else are they going to say? If there was any time to be skeptical about a PR statement, this is it. Wishing a business disaster on Anthem is just playing Russian Roulette with the future of Bioware. I don't care what they say publicly, it's obvious that if Anthem bombs, things are going to change for Bioware. Like, all of the microtransaction revenue they were hoping to get from Anthem will now have to be made up by DA4. You want paywalls and mtx in your next DA? Go ahead and keep wishing for Anthems demise. Wishing immense business success on anthem is playing Russian roulette with the future of bioware sp rpgs.
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Post by taarsidathanhalsaam on Dec 31, 2018 20:49:15 GMT
Well, crap! What can we do, then?
Spending money on Anthem is a risk, NOT spending money on Anthem is a risk... feels like we’re trapped!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 21:05:11 GMT
You're never trapped. If you have the discretionary income to buy Anthem, just to support BioWare overall … sure, go for it, why not? But realistically, a single purchase, by a single customer … just a drop in the bucket … will not decide things, one way or another. So not trapped, just not capable of effecting the outcome in any significant way.
You want BioWare to remain a viable entity to produce the games (IPs) you are interested in. That has more to do with how successfully BioWare develops its concepts for (primarily) multiplayer IPs (like Anthem) as well as concepts for (primarily) single player RPG IPs (like DA or ME) … than it does anything that goes on here at BSN or out in the "wilds" of YouTube or Reddit.
If they have a well developed concept for an IP, a decent story, solid game mechanics, competent graphics, an open world filled with content and a monetization scheme that does not alienate its player base, then word of mouth alone (via Twitter and Facebook mostly) will go a long way to ensure the viability of their various IPs. If their concepts, story, game mechanics, graphics, content and monetization schemes are not so well developed … or more likely, problems in two or more of these areas … then no amount of money from you will matter. So really, it's on them to learn the right lessons from their successes and failures, take those lessons and move forward.
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Post by phoray on Dec 31, 2018 21:19:02 GMT
Well, crap! What can we do, then? Spending money on Anthem is a risk, NOT spending money on Anthem is a risk... feels like we’re trapped! You could also just be a neutral voice among all the dramatic posts that are going to come out and balance post release discussions about it. Can't do that if you never played it
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jan 1, 2019 1:08:25 GMT
Well, crap! What can we do, then? Spending money on Anthem is a risk, NOT spending money on Anthem is a risk... feels like we’re trapped! As Grinch said, money from any of us is a tiny drop in the bucket, so don’t feel obligated either way. I suggest trying the demo in February, then decide if it’s something you want to spend money on. There are two vocal sides to this, pro and anti-Anthem. Each with their axe to grind. One side thinks any criticism of the game will bring doom to BioWare, and the other thinks BioWare deserves it. Both are wrong. Make up your own mind.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 1, 2019 3:16:42 GMT
I mean, what else are they going to say? If there was any time to be skeptical about a PR statement, this is it. Wishing a business disaster on Anthem is just playing Russian Roulette with the future of Bioware. I don't care what they say publicly, it's obvious that if Anthem bombs, things are going to change for Bioware. Like, all of the microtransaction revenue they were hoping to get from Anthem will now have to be made up by DA4. You want paywalls and mtx in your next DA? Go ahead and keep wishing for Anthems demise. While I agree that it’s not wise to hope for anthems failure, I don’t think your conclusion follows. They aren’t going to say oh we made lots of money on anthem, let’s drop live services from other games. No. They will want live service mtx in all games going forward to maximize their profits. There is no correlation with how anthem does at all. Remember they rebooted da4 to add more live services already, whatever that will mean. And no, it’s naive to think all it means is dlc business as usual. Time will tell though. ETA : I should add, that’s my own guess, which also may be inaccurate. It's a good point. I didn't mean to imply it's either/or. Sure, DA4 may still get mtx even if Anthem is a success. But I think it's fair to say there will more pressure to push aggressive and exploitative mtx into DA4 if Anthem fails. And in any case, I was just giving an example of a negative change to Bioware if Anthem fails. Another possible change is accelerating the trend away from RPG and more to action gaming. Anthem was meant to add a pure action game to the Bioware portfolio. If it fails, DA4 may have to span the gap. BTW, live services and mtx are not the same thing. You can have live services with no recurring revenue, and you can have recurring revenue with no live services. Lives services can be used as a means to obtain recurring revenue, but that's not the only thing it's good for.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 1, 2019 3:18:32 GMT
I mean, what else are they going to say? If there was any time to be skeptical about a PR statement, this is it. Wishing a business disaster on Anthem is just playing Russian Roulette with the future of Bioware. I don't care what they say publicly, it's obvious that if Anthem bombs, things are going to change for Bioware. Like, all of the microtransaction revenue they were hoping to get from Anthem will now have to be made up by DA4. You want paywalls and mtx in your next DA? Go ahead and keep wishing for Anthems demise. Wishing immense business success on anthem is playing Russian roulette with the future of bioware sp rpgs. I agree, which is why I don't do that either. I don't want Anthem to be the next Fortnite, that would be just as dire to Bioware as Anthem failing. We need Anthem to hit the Goldilocks zone; not too hot, not too cold.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jan 1, 2019 4:06:09 GMT
While I agree that it’s not wise to hope for anthems failure, I don’t think your conclusion follows. They aren’t going to say oh we made lots of money on anthem, let’s drop live services from other games. No. They will want live service mtx in all games going forward to maximize their profits. There is no correlation with how anthem does at all. Remember they rebooted da4 to add more live services already, whatever that will mean. And no, it’s naive to think all it means is dlc business as usual. Time will tell though. ETA : I should add, that’s my own guess, which also may be inaccurate. It's a good point. I didn't mean to imply it's either/or. Sure, DA4 may still get mtx even if Anthem is a success. But I think it's fair to say there will more pressure to push aggressive and exploitative mtx into DA4 if Anthem fails. And in any case, I was just giving an example of a negative change to Bioware if Anthem fails. Another possible change is accelerating the trend away from RPG and more to action gaming. Anthem was meant to add a pure action game to the Bioware portfolio. If it fails, DA4 may have to span the gap. BTW, live services and mtx are not the same thing. You can have live services with no recurring revenue, and you can have recurring revenue with no live services. Lives services can be used as a means to obtain recurring revenue, but that's not the only thing it's good for. EA has made it clear recurring revenue is its goal. There is no ambiguity. But I’m not up to attempting to provide a cite so feel free to take that with a grain of salt.
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Post by Shinobu on Jan 1, 2019 16:40:55 GMT
I am sorry, there is too much common sense going on in this thread. I say we need some good old fashioned PANICANGERDRAMAJust kidding. Continue making me proud, BSN.
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Post by Shinobu on Jan 1, 2019 17:12:31 GMT
Anthem certainly has some appealing features to me, but if you forced me at gunpoint to answer truthfully why I’m getting the game, well... I’m just afraid that if Anthem bombs Bioware might not be around long enough to make the next Dragon Age game. I love Dragon Age enough that I’ll throw money at this company to make sure it doesn’t become a dead franchise. I sympathize with your point of view; I also wish Bioware financial success so they can be around to make more games that I like. But don't feel forced to buy things if you don't care for them.
A more targeted approach could be to financially reward them for content you want them to make more of. So if you like DA, buy DA related things like DLC. You can make the conscious choice to buy at full price rather than during a sale as a "donation." If you have already bought everything DA related, you could buy DA for your friends, who might also go on to buy DLC. (I've bought DAO and ME2 for a few people who then went on to buy the rest of the games, DLC, merch, etc. A really good reward for Bioware and I only paid a few dollars.) Bioware still gets your money, but also receives feedback on what you like. "Oh, DA is still selling even after all this time, we will have a fanbase waiting for us if we decide to make another."
Definitely Bioware wants Anthem to make a ton of money at launch, but they won't sneeze at continued revenue from older titles. So try the demo and buy Anthem if it appeals to you, but if it doesn't, remember there are other ways to support the company.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 1, 2019 17:31:33 GMT
Wishing immense business success on anthem is playing Russian roulette with the future of bioware sp rpgs. Perhaps that ship has sailed, as live services will be ever more embedded into future Dragon Age and Mass Effect games? (backs away...)
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Post by taarsidathanhalsaam on Jan 1, 2019 17:39:58 GMT
Anthem certainly has some appealing features to me, but if you forced me at gunpoint to answer truthfully why I’m getting the game, well... I’m just afraid that if Anthem bombs Bioware might not be around long enough to make the next Dragon Age game. I love Dragon Age enough that I’ll throw money at this company to make sure it doesn’t become a dead franchise. I sympathize with your point of view; I also wish Bioware financial success so they can be around to make more games that I like. But don't feel forced to buy things if you don't care for them.
A more targeted approach could be to financially reward them for content you want them to make more of. So if you like DA, buy DA related things like DLC. You can make the conscious choice to buy at full price rather than during a sale as a "donation." If you have already bought everything DA related, you could buy DA for your friends, who might also go on to buy DLC. (I've bought DAO and ME2 for a few people who then went on to buy the rest of the games, DLC, merch, etc. A really good reward for Bioware and I only paid a few dollars.) Bioware still gets your money, but also receives feedback on what you like. "Oh, DA is still selling even after all this time, we will have a fanbase waiting for us if we decide to make another."
Definitely Bioware wants Anthem to make a ton of money at launch, but they won't sneeze at continued revenue from older titles. So try the demo and buy Anthem if it appeals to you, but if it doesn't, remember there are other ways to support the company.
Thank you for this, and thank everyone else for similarly sensible solutions! Bioware isn't dead yet, and I shouldn't make any hasty decisions in any case!
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 1, 2019 18:01:59 GMT
I have basically zero hype for Anthem. I do want to support Bioware, I have for a long time. I am old enough to have purchased Baldur's Gate in a store that sold PC games (it wasn't even a game specific store, it was a military px I think) that came in big giant boxes and had big giant manuals and I paid for the game with paper money that I handed to an actual person who put the big giant box with the big giant manual and game inside of it into a bag with their actual human hands.
However, I am still angry at Bioware for abandoning ME:A and for ignoring their Dragon Age fans for so long.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 1, 2019 19:22:59 GMT
It's a good point. I didn't mean to imply it's either/or. Sure, DA4 may still get mtx even if Anthem is a success. But I think it's fair to say there will more pressure to push aggressive and exploitative mtx into DA4 if Anthem fails. And in any case, I was just giving an example of a negative change to Bioware if Anthem fails. Another possible change is accelerating the trend away from RPG and more to action gaming. Anthem was meant to add a pure action game to the Bioware portfolio. If it fails, DA4 may have to span the gap. BTW, live services and mtx are not the same thing. You can have live services with no recurring revenue, and you can have recurring revenue with no live services. Lives services can be used as a means to obtain recurring revenue, but that's not the only thing it's good for. EA has made it clear recurring revenue is its goal. There is no ambiguity. Of course that's EA's goal, not disputing that. All I'm disputing is using "live service" as a euphemism for recurring revenue. They aren't interchangeable, particularly with respect to degree. So the statement "DA4 will have live services," does not automatically mean a maximum level of mtx. It could be any level, including zero. Though, admittedly, zero is unlikely, but more likely if Anthem is a modest success. I'm willing to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt. I think the main use of live services in DA4 will be to update content for free, such as new maps for the MP mode, assuming it has one. It will probably also have a secondary use of providing cosmetics through mtx for MP mode. In other words, exactly the same usage of live services as Anthem currently is shooting for.
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Post by NotN7 on Jan 1, 2019 21:13:38 GMT
Pls Live service to me is being able to update without having to shut down the server for weekly Maint. much like Trion(TM) when Rift(TM) launched it has nothing to do with Monetizing
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jan 1, 2019 22:07:59 GMT
EA has made it clear recurring revenue is its goal. There is no ambiguity. Of course that's EA's goal, not disputing that. All I'm disputing is using "live service" as a euphemism for recurring revenue. They aren't interchangeable, particularly with respect to degree. So the statement "DA4 will have live services," does not automatically mean a maximum level of mtx. It could be any level, including zero. Though, admittedly, zero is unlikely, but more likely if Anthem is a modest success. I'm willing to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt. I think the main use of live services in DA4 will be to update content for free, such as new maps for the MP mode, assuming it has one. It will probably also have a secondary use of providing cosmetics through mtx for MP mode. In other words, exactly the same usage of live services as Anthem currently is shooting for. Oh sure, they aren't interchangeable.. but I doubt EA/Bioware mean something mild like free MP stuff. Why else would they reboot the entire game (whatever that means) to add more live services? Wouldn't have to do that for mere MP add ons.
Anyway, whatever the case will be, this is the Anthem skepticism thread, not DA4 skepticism.
Happy new year all!
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Post by correctamundo on Jan 2, 2019 10:10:58 GMT
I mean, what else are they going to say? If there was any time to be skeptical about a PR statement, this is it. Wishing a business disaster on Anthem is just playing Russian Roulette with the future of Bioware. I don't care what they say publicly, it's obvious that if Anthem bombs, things are going to change for Bioware. Like, all of the microtransaction revenue they were hoping to get from Anthem will now have to be made up by DA4. You want paywalls and mtx in your next DA? Go ahead and keep wishing for Anthems demise. Well thats upsetting. I guess I have no choice but to try to support Anthem, then. Who knows, it might end up being a great game: it certainly looks great! Then even if I bought into it for the wrong reasons I will end up staying for the right ones! Until Bioware’s position doesn’t look quite so precarious they will have me by the heartstrings. You do you but I would suggest byuing Anthem if that type of game appeals to you. Try the demo if you're unsure. DA will sort itself out.
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Post by taarsidathanhalsaam on Jan 2, 2019 14:15:35 GMT
Well thats upsetting. I guess I have no choice but to try to support Anthem, then. Who knows, it might end up being a great game: it certainly looks great! Then even if I bought into it for the wrong reasons I will end up staying for the right ones! Until Bioware’s position doesn’t look quite so precarious they will have me by the heartstrings. You do you but I would suggest byuing Anthem if that type of game appeals to you. Try the demo if you're unsure. DA will sort itself out. Noted, thanks! One doubt I have about my personal enjoyment of the game is, well... the mechs have a rather complicated design, which makes them hard to draw. Making fanart is one of the major ways I engage with my fandoms, heh. But of course I could just enjoy the game the way others do: for the fun and engaging combat. Heck, maybe the parts of the story in fort tarsus might be cool and I could draw those!
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Post by helios969 on Jan 3, 2019 11:32:03 GMT
You do you but I would suggest byuing Anthem if that type of game appeals to you. Try the demo if you're unsure. DA will sort itself out. Noted, thanks! One doubt I have about my personal enjoyment of the game is, well... the mechs have a rather complicated design, which makes them hard to draw. Making fanart is one of the major ways I engage with my fandoms, heh. But of course I could just enjoy the game the way others do: for the fun and engaging combat. Heck, maybe the parts of the story in fort tarsus might be cool and I could draw those! Also depends on your particular financial situation and expected return on investment. For me dropping 80$ is fairly trivial...for others much less so. For games I like to get a 1$/hour entertainment at a minimum...a threshold I feel like Anthem will easily clear. Most Bioware games have given me something like 5-10 cents/hour. Since this is not a SP exclusive I expect it to be somewhere between, making a purchase easily justifiable. Even larger than my desire to generally support Bioware is my desire to support the decision to remove lootboxes, paywalls, and pay-for-power. Those are the biggest reasons I've avoided games like COD, Division, and Destiny.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jan 3, 2019 14:59:02 GMT
I am sorry, there is too much common sense going on in this thread. I say we need some good old fashioned PANICANGERDRAMAJust kidding. Continue making me proud, BSN. Your choice of colouring dramatically enrages my panicked persona.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jan 3, 2019 15:15:30 GMT
I am sorry, there is too much common sense going on in this thread. I say we need some good old fashioned PANICANGERDRAMAJust kidding. Continue making me proud, BSN. Your choice of colouring dramatically enrages my panicked persona. You too? It really riled me up for sure.
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Post by Shinobu on Jan 3, 2019 20:44:25 GMT
Your choice of colouring dramatically enrages my panicked persona. You too? It really riled me up for sure. I just realized I subconsciously picked the colors of the endings of Mass Effect 3. Crap, now I've done it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 20:47:41 GMT
And here I thought it was just you being your sneaky, wicked genius self.
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