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Post by Gileadan on Jan 10, 2019 10:01:17 GMT
I've considered myself as mostly neutral towards Anthem so far, but now I'm beginning to move towards the skeptic camp. The reason are the recent gameplay videos from LadyInsanity and RyanCentral. They were good videos that I enjoyed watching, but they showed me clearly what to me is one of the biggest weaknesses of the game - the lack of enemy variety in all aspects.
I can't remember any other game right now that looked so good and had such boring enemies and gunplay. No matter what difficulty you play at, the Scars seem to be very static opponents that sometimes move around slowly but often are happy to stand around in a big group while the player runs circles around them and decimates them one by one. Their movement speed is so slow that they probably have trouble to reach the toilet in time.
They don't seem to use any special abilities. There don't seem to be any melee units. The game doesn't make use of the fact that it is taking place on a big map - there were no enemy snipers or mortars or similar units that could viably attack from a greater distance. The gameplay was just moving from one local skirmish against dumb, static enemies to the next.
And we apparently once again get weak gear and pea shooter guns that are balanced for the use of consumable boosters, something I hated in ME MP and hoped to never see again. Then I saw this help text pop up during RyanCentral's video: "Craft Expedition Consumables to boost your javelin on your next Mission".
Well, crap.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jan 10, 2019 11:09:19 GMT
I need a new rig. Maybe I'll look at buying one soon. Then I could maybe checkout Anthem.
But then again, I watched MagZ give a rundown on the Tomcat which is coming up for DCS and I was like "damn, I need a new rig to play DCS again". It's like a year or so they updated DCS, but my thing has trouble handling it. So yeah, Anthem isn't really top priority.
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Post by helios969 on Jan 10, 2019 11:48:46 GMT
I've considered myself as mostly neutral towards Anthem so far, but now I'm beginning to move towards the skeptic camp. The reason are the recent gameplay videos from LadyInsanity and RyanCentral. They were good videos that I enjoyed watching, but they showed me clearly what to me is one of the biggest weaknesses of the game - the lack of enemy variety in all aspects. I can't remember any other game right now that looked so good and had such boring enemies and gunplay. No matter what difficulty you play at, the Scars seem to be very static opponents that sometimes move around slowly but often are happy to stand around in a big group while the player runs circles around them and decimates them one by one. Their movement speed is so slow that they probably have trouble to reach the toilet in time. They don't seem to use any special abilities. There don't seem to be any melee units. The game doesn't make use of the fact that it is taking place on a big map - there were no enemy snipers or mortars or similar units that could viably attack from a greater distance. The gameplay was just moving from one local skirmish against dumb, static enemies to the next. And we apparently once again get weak gear and pea shooter guns that are balanced for the use of consumable boosters, something I hated in ME MP and hoped to never see again. Then I saw this help text pop up during RyanCentral's video: "Craft Expedition Consumables to boost your javelin on your next Mission". Well, crap. Yep, the mobs are incredibly static. Either Bio needs to make them more reactive or they need to incorporate more units with special attacks in support (preferably both). They've got a month to tweak things...and I think if this game is going to survive long-term they will have to address such...people will get bored really quick if that's the extent of each and every mission. And there's little point to the loot grind if the engagements lack any challenge. They've got some work to do.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jan 10, 2019 12:47:51 GMT
I've considered myself as mostly neutral towards Anthem so far, but now I'm beginning to move towards the skeptic camp. The reason are the recent gameplay videos from LadyInsanity and RyanCentral. They were good videos that I enjoyed watching, but they showed me clearly what to me is one of the biggest weaknesses of the game - the lack of enemy variety in all aspects. I can't remember any other game right now that looked so good and had such boring enemies and gunplay. No matter what difficulty you play at, the Scars seem to be very static opponents that sometimes move around slowly but often are happy to stand around in a big group while the player runs circles around them and decimates them one by one. Their movement speed is so slow that they probably have trouble to reach the toilet in time. They don't seem to use any special abilities. There don't seem to be any melee units. The game doesn't make use of the fact that it is taking place on a big map - there were no enemy snipers or mortars or similar units that could viably attack from a greater distance. The gameplay was just moving from one local skirmish against dumb, static enemies to the next. And we apparently once again get weak gear and pea shooter guns that are balanced for the use of consumable boosters, something I hated in ME MP and hoped to never see again. Then I saw this help text pop up during RyanCentral's video: "Craft Expedition Consumables to boost your javelin on your next Mission". Well, crap. Yep, the mobs are incredibly static. Either Bio needs to make them more reactive or they need to incorporate more units with special attacks in support (preferably both). They've got a month to tweak things...and I think if this game is going to survive long-term they will have to address such...people will get bored really quick if that's the extent of each and every mission. And there's little point to the loot grind if the engagements lack any challenge. They've got some work to do. Although you raise valid points which I hope are adressed, do keep in mind that: 1) this is a single mission, 2) this is one of the first missions in the game
Obviously, there's a whole big game beyond this mission waiting, and from some of the fragments we've seen in other video's, there are a lot of other enemies. Also, theres a video circulating discussing enemy AI with difficulty, which states that enemies use more different abilities with growing difficulty.
That said, this video/mission does not represent that in any way though, sadly.
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Post by helios969 on Jan 10, 2019 20:07:42 GMT
Although you raise valid points which I hope are adressed, do keep in mind that: 1) this is a single mission, 2) this is one of the first missions in the game
Obviously, there's a whole big game beyond this mission waiting, and from some of the fragments we've seen in other video's, there are a lot of other enemies. Also, theres a video circulating discussing enemy AI with difficulty, which states that enemies use more different abilities with growing difficulty.
That said, this video/mission does not represent that in any way though, sadly. I agree with your point on it being one mission early on. I've already preordered so I'm committed. Still you'd think they'd want to feature something beyond spawning, static mobs. Hell, even if they showed them separating into 2 groups immediately on spawn in order to flank you from either side that would be an improvement. Here's hoping enemies and encounters evolve according to difficulty and player tendencies as has been suggested.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 11, 2019 4:45:23 GMT
the lack of enemy variety in all aspects. TBH, this is a complaint I've had about all of Bioware's games, so I guess my expectations were already so low this didn't really bother me. And it is an early level mission. Judging any game only on one early mission is kind of unfair. The first mission of Destiny 1 had no more enemy variety than the Lost Arcanist mission we were shown. Not that Destiny is any kind of exemplar. Did you look at the Nvidia trailer/advertisement? It shows some new enemies. Other YTbers have leaked some additional enemies too. So there is more variety than in the Lost Arcanist. Whether it's enough for my taste, I doubt. I had the opposite reaction to the combat and gameplay. I think Hard level difficulty looks just right to me, not too spongey, not too faceroll.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jan 11, 2019 7:26:02 GMT
the lack of enemy variety in all aspects. TBH, this is a complaint I've had about all of Bioware's games, so I guess my expectations were already so low this didn't really bother me. And it is an early level mission. Judging any game only on one early mission is kind of unfair. The first mission of Destiny 1 had no more enemy variety than the Lost Arcanist mission we were shown. Not that Destiny is any kind of exemplar. Did you look at the Nvidia trailer/advertisement? It shows some new enemies. Other YTbers have leaked some additional enemies too. So there is more variety than in the Lost Arcanist. Whether it's enough for my taste, I doubt. I had the opposite reaction to the combat and gameplay. I think Hard level difficulty looks just right to me, not too spongey, not too faceroll. Yeah I agree with pretty much all you said.
Specifically: Indeed, it's not like Bioware has had a plethora of enemy variety in previous games...
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Post by river82 on Jan 11, 2019 7:31:15 GMT
the lack of enemy variety in all aspects. TBH, this is a complaint I've had about all of Bioware's games, so I guess my expectations were already so low this didn't really bother me. Baldur's Gate had decent variety (the advantages of creating a game in an already established world).
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Gileadan
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Post by Gileadan on Jan 11, 2019 8:24:01 GMT
the lack of enemy variety in all aspects. TBH, this is a complaint I've had about all of Bioware's games, so I guess my expectations were already so low this didn't really bother me. And it is an early level mission. Judging any game only on one early mission is kind of unfair. The first mission of Destiny 1 had no more enemy variety than the Lost Arcanist mission we were shown. Not that Destiny is any kind of exemplar. Did you look at the Nvidia trailer/advertisement? It shows some new enemies. Other YTbers have leaked some additional enemies too. So there is more variety than in the Lost Arcanist. Whether it's enough for my taste, I doubt. I had the opposite reaction to the combat and gameplay. I think Hard level difficulty looks just right to me, not too spongey, not too faceroll. Well, it's normal that an early mission is meant to ease players into the game and enemy variety is meant to increase as you advance through the game, but this was an extreme case. Not only was there mostly just one enemy type with one type of weaponry, it was also the way they acted - moving very slowly or staying stationary, taking shots at the player. You can't get much lower in variety than one enemy that uses one weapon and doesn't do anything but stand around in the open, maybe walk a little in a random direction and shoot at the player. It's this combination of practically zero enemy variety with completely slow and predictable behaviour that makes the combat look so boring to me. Many games have a low variety of enemies up to the end but are still fun to play because said enemies use cover and a variety of weapons and tactics. Scars however seem to be completely dumb and slow, like zombies with guns. That is pretty rare in shooters, even in a beginner mission. I didn't watch the entire Nvidia trailer, but I did see that spider bot that looks A LOT like a reskinned Remnant Destroyer from MEA.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 12, 2019 3:06:42 GMT
TBH, this is a complaint I've had about all of Bioware's games, so I guess my expectations were already so low this didn't really bother me. Baldur's Gate had decent variety (the advantages of creating a game in an already established world). Fair enough. I meant from DAO on.
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Post by river82 on Jan 16, 2019 20:38:03 GMT
Still not hearing much hype, and we're getting pretty close to release.
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 17, 2019 5:36:45 GMT
I think a restrained level of hype may be a good thing.
EDIT: This is probably born of my fear that this may be a rough launch and I don't mean in terms of gameplay performance. There is an army of gamers that will tear through whatever content is available in days and potentially be disappointed after that, and then there is another army of gamers and content creators out there ready to set fire to this game online.
Maybe I'm being too much of a pessimist and I certainly don't belong to either camp but I just get the sense they are there, waiting in the wings, eager to swarm come release week.
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Post by river82 on Jan 17, 2019 7:46:23 GMT
Many hardcore Bioware fans like to comfort themselves with the idea that the gamers hold a grudge against Bioware and that's why Bioware's games underperform. But the gamers currently have a big grudge against Blizzard, and actually WOW players have had a grudge against Blizzard (Activision) for a long time, and yet Blizzard is still incredibly successful.
Dragon Age Inquisition was the most successful game Bioware's ever produced, did angry gamers affect the sales there? Not particularly. Sales of Andromeda were affected because it was a flawed game.
If Anthem is a good product then it will sell well. If it is a heavily flawed product then it may not. Perpetuating this idea that it's somehow the gamers' fault for Bioware not performing is a security blanket, it's perpetuated to make fans feel better - it's not the game that's at fault, I like the game so it can't possibly be the game, it's the gamers and youtube and Nazis, and reviewers, and any other group of people that's convenient to point at.
And at the end of the day Bioware's target audience is gamers. Gamers buy games. So if there are huge number of gamers getting ready to shit on Bioware games (and not a loud minority), and the sale figures of recent Bioware games doesn't really support this argument, then that's a problem because Bioware wants to target these people. So you'd then have to wonder why that is.
If Anthem does poorly, and it's far too early to speculate, then I would look at the game before I'd look at gamers.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jan 17, 2019 9:23:22 GMT
Baldur's Gate had decent variety (the advantages of creating a game in an already established world). Fair enough. I meant from DAO on. Mass effect on maybe?
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 17, 2019 9:24:26 GMT
Many hardcore Bioware fans like to comfort themselves with the idea that the gamers hold a grudge against Bioware and that's why Bioware's games underperform. But the gamers currently have a big grudge against Blizzard, and actually WOW players have had a grudge against Blizzard (Activision) for a long time, and yet Blizzard is still incredibly successful. Dragon Age Inquisition was the most successful game Bioware's ever produced, did angry gamers affect the sales there? Not particularly. Sales of Andromeda were affected because it was a flawed game. If Anthem is a good product then it will sell well. If it is a heavily flawed product then it may not. Perpetuating this idea that it's somehow the gamers' fault for Bioware not performing is a security blanket, it's perpetuated to make fans feel better - it's not the game that's at fault, I like the game so it can't possibly be the game, it's the gamers and youtube and Nazis, and reviewers, and any other group of people that's convenient to point at. And at the end of the day Bioware's target audience is gamers. Gamers buy games. So if there are huge number of gamers getting ready to shit on Bioware games (and not a loud minority), and the sale figures of recent Bioware games doesn't really support this argument, then that's a problem because Bioware wants to target these people. So you'd then have to wonder why that is. If Anthem does poorly, and it's far too early to speculate, then I would look at the game before I'd look at gamers. I think Mass Effect 3's ending definitely had an effect on Andromeda. Andromeda is nowhere near as flawed as the vitriol spat at it would suggest. The idea that there isn't a culture of negativity and a will to exert force and influence surrounding that kind of negativity just isn't taking into account the whole story. Not sure what Nazi's have to do with anything related to this discussion. Kind of a red herring that you even throw that in there.
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Post by river82 on Jan 17, 2019 9:34:44 GMT
Many hardcore Bioware fans like to comfort themselves with the idea that the gamers hold a grudge against Bioware and that's why Bioware's games underperform. But the gamers currently have a big grudge against Blizzard, and actually WOW players have had a grudge against Blizzard (Activision) for a long time, and yet Blizzard is still incredibly successful. Dragon Age Inquisition was the most successful game Bioware's ever produced, did angry gamers affect the sales there? Not particularly. Sales of Andromeda were affected because it was a flawed game. If Anthem is a good product then it will sell well. If it is a heavily flawed product then it may not. Perpetuating this idea that it's somehow the gamers' fault for Bioware not performing is a security blanket, it's perpetuated to make fans feel better - it's not the game that's at fault, I like the game so it can't possibly be the game, it's the gamers and youtube and Nazis, and reviewers, and any other group of people that's convenient to point at. And at the end of the day Bioware's target audience is gamers. Gamers buy games. So if there are huge number of gamers getting ready to shit on Bioware games (and not a loud minority), and the sale figures of recent Bioware games doesn't really support this argument, then that's a problem because Bioware wants to target these people. So you'd then have to wonder why that is. If Anthem does poorly, and it's far too early to speculate, then I would look at the game before I'd look at gamers. I think Mass Effect 3's ending definitely had an effect on Andromeda. Andromeda is nowhere near as flawed as the vitriol spat at it would suggest. The idea that there isn't a culture of negativity and a will to exert force and influence surrounding that kind of negativity just isn't taking into account the whole story. Not sure what Nazi's have to do with anything related to this discussion. Kind of a red herring that you even throw that in there. Mark Darrah himself said that Andromeda was pretty flawed and was lapped by genuinely better games. While there may be negativity, people have continuously failed to equate that negativity from internet warriors to reduced sales. EA Sports is one of the most hated franchises on the planet, and yet FIFA is one of the most succesful gaming franchises on the planet. What does Nazis have to do with anything? When people equate the criticism of Andromeda as a mask for people to rage against "diversity in games", then Nazis or the "alt-right" gets thrown around pretty quick. That people are citing negativity of gamers this far out from release just says to me that they're already looking for excuses
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Post by lennybusker on Jan 17, 2019 16:42:46 GMT
It's funny to me that the BioWare Faithful are more concerned about people's reaction to Anthem than Anthem itself, though I suppose that's to be expected.
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 17, 2019 16:46:26 GMT
Mark Darrah himself said that Andromeda was pretty flawed and was lapped by genuinely better games. While there may be negativity, people have continuously failed to equate that negativity from internet warriors to reduced sales. EA Sports is one of the most hated franchises on the planet, and yet FIFA is one of the most succesful gaming franchises on the planet. What does Nazis have to do with anything? When people equate the criticism of Andromeda as a mask for people to rage against "diversity in games", then Nazis or the "alt-right" gets thrown around pretty quick. That people are citing negativity of gamers this far out from release just says to me that they're already looking for excuses Andromeda did have quite a number of flaws, more pronounced at launch. However, I completely disagree with him (Darrah) that other games released around that time frame were better. The general consensus IS that the games released around that time were better and MEA was at best an average game so I can concede that my opinion does not really mesh up with the general populace.
I think it is too early to tell if peoples frustrations with EA will catch up to sports games, we will probably see an effect in USA first. FIFA is like church in Europe. The amount of microtransactions that game sells is mind boggling. This just makes me feel better about my opinion not really lining up with the general populace all the time. I do tend to like shit things, but much of what is heralded by the masses as great, I strongly disagree with.
Maybe just leave the nazi and alt right stuff out ... I never brought it up in my arguments, it feels out of place.
Anthem has an uphill battle to wage and it will come down to more than if it is just a good game, especially because 'good game' has a lot of subjective elements attached. If you don't think game media and youtube have any influence on sales then I'm not really sure what to say. The stuff wouldn't exist if it didn't.
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 17, 2019 16:49:38 GMT
It's funny to me that the BioWare Faithful are more concerned about people's reaction to Anthem than Anthem itself, though I suppose that's to be expected. Who says I am more concerned?
Can I not have several different factors of concern?
Are there not different layers to any conversation? The fact that I am concerned by potential negativity towards EA and/or Bioware does NOT mean I am not more concerned that Anthem just be a really fun and engaging experience. They are just two really large conversations. I don't want to write books up in here.
If you are going to put words in my mouth address me directly please.
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Post by akots on Jan 17, 2019 18:27:37 GMT
Although you raise valid points which I hope are adressed, do keep in mind that: 1) this is a single mission, 2) this is one of the first missions in the game The only video I watched with half-decent number of views is this one by IGN: As of now, it has 25K likes, 7.5K dislikes and about 2 million views. I gave it a firm dislike: 1. There is some constant background talking with very poorly written casual meaningless lines. Well, good thing, they got rid of Andromeda orgasmic panting. Still, extremely annoying. IMHO, any communication during the mission should serve some purpose. "Cover me", "I'm wounded", "Rawwwr", "For Tuchanka" sounds about right. You are being shot at and you exchange some meaningless casual comments about where some guy is hiding. Pretty dumb design. 2. Very poor background music track. 3. Generally poor sound quality with assets largely recycled from Andromeda. Voices are a bit unpleasant and lack personality. 4. Very chaotic gameplay with cameras constantly jumping around. I lost track of what is happening after a few seconds. Low fps, this should have been a 60fps gameplay and same for video quality. Looks dated. 5. First 7 minutes was the journey around the map with some Andromeda style hold-the-button to activate. There was no explanation of anything. Might be some plot is missing. Anyhow, this should have been explained, at least briefly. 6. Too flashy combat. There is no way to understand what is going on. 7. Suit animations are largely recycled from Andromeda. And not the best animations are used either. 8. Combat is not very cohesive. Enemies seem unable to move at all and are very slow. Visual enemy variety is lacking. Seems more like some action game sprites. They don't seem to communicate or have any sound and display a general lack of personality. 9. Not sure if there is any purpose or goal to the whole thing. These are simply enemies, they neither look evil or are identified as clearly evil, again similar to Andromeda. Neither they are cute or interesting to look at. Don't seem Dangerous as well. I do realize this might change with difficulty. But this is the showcase marketing video, so no sure why these things should be hidden. 10. Lack of any meaningful information in the description. 11. Not sure why, but there is no showcasing of the gunplay. 12. Apparently, the abilities are auto-targeting DAI-style. This is horrible. Maybe a console thing. 13. Does not seem to be any cover, lots of AoE stuff, apparently need to constantly move around, seems very twitchy. 14. Generally boring, I made myself watch the last 5 minutes, not very engaging. 15. Looks like a Warframe clone with less variety, less content, possibly more story, and $60 price tag. 16. Even a small lag would completely destroy the gameplay. It seems extremely lag-sensitive. How am I going to play this with Spacevegan or Pheabus? It is possible to continue for some time with the list but it is probably better to stop. There are some good things as well although this is the skepticism thread and these don't belong here. I'm certainly not preordering and not buying it at release unless it gets 9 out of 10 on AngryJoe, Gamespot, and metacritic at the same time and a generally positive reaction here on the forum.
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Post by biggydx on Jan 17, 2019 18:45:53 GMT
Why not just default to not getting it? If you're not interested in it now, I don't see how the reviewers you cited would sway you?
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Post by akots on Jan 17, 2019 19:26:54 GMT
Why not just default to not getting it? If you're not interested in it now, I don't see how the reviewers you cited would sway you? I generally like the genre. For example, I recently spent about 60 hours in Shadow Warrior 2 solo and about 10 hours in multiplayer. The game was free on GOG and it is really hilarious and very well designed. Wang's dick jokes do get old after the first 5 hours, plot is non-existent and I skipped almost all cutscences but gameplay is brilliant.
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Post by river82 on Jan 17, 2019 20:40:38 GMT
I think it is too early to tell if peoples frustrations with EA will catch up to sports games, we will probably see an effect in USA first. FIFA is like church in Europe. The amount of microtransactions that game sells is mind boggling. This just makes me feel better about my opinion not really lining up with the general populace all the time. I do tend to like shit things, but much of what is heralded by the masses as great, I strongly disagree with. The frustrations won't catch up to EA Sport. Go look at the steam ratings for NBA 2k19. You'll see the reviews are "mostly negative" and it averages maybe 5/10. People rage against the microtransactions in that game and how 2kSports try and force you to buy upgrades. However 2k19 was the most successful launch for the series yet, the reviews just didn't matter. The Sims has a lot of shit said about it, the way it builds a bare boned base game and sells other aspects of the game piecemeal for 40 dollars a hit. It's still very successful. At the end of the day people just want to be entertained, they know what they like and online talk is less influential for big AAA franchises than you'd think.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 17, 2019 21:55:38 GMT
Still not hearing much hype, and we're getting pretty close to release. From where? My freakin YT recommendations are full of Anthem vids. Though I admit super smash bros ultimate is getting a lot more hype.
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Post by river82 on Jan 17, 2019 22:13:19 GMT
Still not hearing much hype, and we're getting pretty close to release. From where? My freakin YT recommendations are full of Anthem vids. Though I admit super smash bros ultimate is getting a lot more hype. YT recommends vids based on what you've previously watched, which is why I have zero Anthem videos recommended to me. It's a poor way to try and track what's trending. You've asked this question before I believe, and I answered before - based on my viewing of about 4 or 5 RPG forums and a couple of gaming forums, I'm not seeing much hype. If you want to compare the hype of Anthem with a game that's quite hyped but still years away from release, AnthemTheGame subreddit has 50,000 subscribers and it's released next month. Cyberpunk 2077 subreddit has 120,000 subscribers with no release in sight.
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