inherit
2550
0
1,958
majesticjazz
2,015
January 2017
majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by majesticjazz on Feb 9, 2019 17:26:05 GMT
Sigh....you still do not get it. If the demo is the final build....then how can the final build on 15 Feb be any different? And IF there are any changes, it would not come until weeks after launch in the form of various patches. But weeks after launch is NOT the final product. How can the final product be better....when we were already shown the final product? Where is your logic? Misrepresenting. The claim was demo 'representative' of final build, obviously not final build. And if demo is not representative of final build, then my assertion would be enough held back for the final build to impress more. And at this late in the game, those changes will not be in by next week but weeks after....thus the final product remains the same.
|
|
inherit
N7
289
0
Sept 21, 2024 0:54:11 GMT
8,016
Terminator Force
4,314
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
|
Post by Terminator Force on Feb 9, 2019 17:36:05 GMT
Misrepresenting. The claim was demo 'representative' of final build, obviously not final build. And if demo is not representative of final build, then my assertion would be enough held back for the final build to impress more. And at this late in the game, those changes will not be in by next week but weeks after....thus the final product remains the same. Demo was based off a December build. And even at that, it's just a slice. Source; ca.ign.com/wikis/anthem/Anthem_DemoSo not final build.
|
|
inherit
2550
0
1,958
majesticjazz
2,015
January 2017
majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by majesticjazz on Feb 9, 2019 17:39:40 GMT
And at this late in the game, those changes will not be in by next week but weeks after....thus the final product remains the same. Demo was based off a December build. And even at that, it's just a slice. Source; ca.ign.com/wikis/anthem/Anthem_Demo And thus they continued deep into January working the game without any feedback from the demo. By the time they got the substantial feedback to "improve" the game, they are near ready to go gold....not enough time to make any substantial improvements based on the demo. Therefore any improvements will not be seen until well after the game is launched in the form of patches.....thus there isnt any "bright side" for the 15 Feb launch product.
|
|
inherit
N7
289
0
Sept 21, 2024 0:54:11 GMT
8,016
Terminator Force
4,314
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
|
Post by Terminator Force on Feb 9, 2019 17:47:33 GMT
And thus they continued deep into January working the game without any feedback from the demo. By the time they got the substantial feedback to "improve" the game, they are near ready to go gold....not enough time to make any substantial improvements based on the demo. Therefore any improvements will not be seen until well after the game is launched in the form of patches.....thus there isnt any "bright side" for the 15 Feb launch product. Moving the goalpost. You've asserted it was final build and I've proven you wrong.
|
|
inherit
2550
0
1,958
majesticjazz
2,015
January 2017
majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by majesticjazz on Feb 9, 2019 17:53:07 GMT
And thus they continued deep into January working the game without any feedback from the demo. By the time they got the substantial feedback to "improve" the game, they are near ready to go gold....not enough time to make any substantial improvements based on the demo. Therefore any improvements will not be seen until well after the game is launched in the form of patches.....thus there isnt any "bright side" for the 15 Feb launch product. Moving the goalpost. You've asserted it was final build and I've proven you wrong. No, my argument is that there is no bright side....which was your original argument. My argument is that the demo was representative of the final build and IF there are substantial changes that improves the game....it will not come by 15 February but rather weeks after. In addition, the game launches next week....the demo ended last week. I doubt Bioware is able to gather all that feedback and data and make any valuable changes in such short turn around.
|
|
inherit
N7
289
0
Sept 21, 2024 0:54:11 GMT
8,016
Terminator Force
4,314
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
|
Post by Terminator Force on Feb 9, 2019 18:29:40 GMT
Moving the goalpost. You've asserted it was final build and I've proven you wrong. No, my argument is that there is no bright side....which was your original argument. My argument is that the demo was representative of the final build and IF there are substantial changes that improves the game....it will not come by 15 February but rather weeks after. In addition, the game launches next week....the demo ended last week. I doubt Bioware is able to gather all that feedback and data and make any valuable changes in such short turn around. So it all comes back to how representative the demo was of the final build.
|
|
inherit
2550
0
1,958
majesticjazz
2,015
January 2017
majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by majesticjazz on Feb 9, 2019 18:31:19 GMT
No, my argument is that there is no bright side....which was your original argument. My argument is that the demo was representative of the final build and IF there are substantial changes that improves the game....it will not come by 15 February but rather weeks after. In addition, the game launches next week....the demo ended last week. I doubt Bioware is able to gather all that feedback and data and make any valuable changes in such short turn around. So it all comes back to how representative the demo was of the final build. No it comes back to how short little time Bioware has to take into account player feedback from the demo.
|
|
inherit
7836
0
2,286
shinobiwan
1,171
Apr 19, 2017 19:26:11 GMT
April 2017
shinobiwan
|
Post by shinobiwan on Feb 9, 2019 18:35:50 GMT
Ahh yes, the old "you're not allowed to determine whether to buy a game until you've already bought it and played through it" argument. We have dismissed that claim. Strawman. "Oh, so you can't personally make direct comparisons to beta, demo and final game." Your words, not mine.
|
|
inherit
1817
0
9,288
Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
3,733
Oct 18, 2016 21:17:18 GMT
October 2016
kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Kappa Neko on Feb 9, 2019 18:49:23 GMT
One thing to consider when it comes to the "demo" is that it was most likely prepared while the rest of the team kept working on the release version. Normally a demo is taken from the final product and prepared after work on the game has been mostly concluded. It's not unusual for demos to be released after the actual game for those on the fence.
Obviously this is not the case here. But on the bright side, this means that Bioware has worked about two months on the game since work on the demo started. Obviously the feedback from the demo only gave Bioware about 2 weeks to implement changes that are a direct result of these technical issues found in said demo which are expected to persist in the game. However, they may have known of several issues in the demo that were deemed acceptable and have since fixed them. The demo will surely have had bugs that are only present in the demo because it's an old build. Bioware said this too.
Of course the release version will have new bugs. And we cannot know how many of the technical issues of the demo were known and how many of those are still present today in the newer build. How quickly Bioware can fix issues before release depends on for how long they've known about them and how difficult it is to fix them. Meaning, do they know how to fix them.
Some of you here seem to think the development process went like this: Work on game, stop working on game to make demo, resume working on the final version. This leaves only 2 weeks to fix all bugs.
The reality was most likely: Work on game, small team prepares the demo while the rest keeps polishing the game. After the demo, everyone works on the release version. Time to fix bugs since the build used for the demo is around 8 weeks. Two weeks to fix surprise bugs from demo that they were not aware of and that are also present in current build.
This still doesn't give us any idea how buggy the game will be on release. My guess is quite buggy. But I thought I'd leave this here for everyone to contemplate.
|
|
inherit
N7
289
0
Sept 21, 2024 0:54:11 GMT
8,016
Terminator Force
4,314
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
|
Post by Terminator Force on Feb 9, 2019 18:51:18 GMT
So it all comes back to how representative the demo was of the final build. No it comes back to how short little time Bioware has to take into account player feedback from the demo. That comes with the caveat that you know how much was left out of demo slice to focus on having a demo build out in time. For all we know a lot of those player feedback could have been in the pipeline (especially when considering there may have been plenty of player feedback to be inserted from alpha).
|
|
inherit
N7
289
0
Sept 21, 2024 0:54:11 GMT
8,016
Terminator Force
4,314
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
|
Post by Terminator Force on Feb 9, 2019 18:54:16 GMT
"Oh, so you can't personally make direct comparisons to beta, demo and final game." Your words, not mine. That wasn't my assertion, someone else made it. And was more curious if he had at least played alpha to compare with.
|
|
inherit
N7
289
0
Sept 21, 2024 0:54:11 GMT
8,016
Terminator Force
4,314
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
|
Post by Terminator Force on Feb 9, 2019 19:09:01 GMT
Lets look at this quote again, forgot what it was about. Ahh yes, the old "you're not allowed to determine whether to buy a game until you've already bought it and played through it" argument. We have dismissed that claim. Strawman. It's a misrepresentation of my argument in that I never claimed you can't make educated decisions on current information and hands on playing of demo and alpha. I'm just questioning the validity of some of the Anthem skepticism by pointing out the person hasn't even hands on with the alpha build to compare and contrast, yet is completely fine to also assert comparisons to unreleased final build with no good arguments to back up.
|
|
inherit
7836
0
2,286
shinobiwan
1,171
Apr 19, 2017 19:26:11 GMT
April 2017
shinobiwan
|
Post by shinobiwan on Feb 9, 2019 19:37:12 GMT
Lets look at this quote again, forgot what it was about. It's a misrepresentation of my argument in that I never claimed you can't make educated decisions on current information and hands on playing of demo and alpha. I'm just questioning the validity of some of the Anthem skepticism by pointing out the person hasn't even hands on with the alpha build to compare and contrast, yet is completely fine to also assert comparisons to unreleased final build with no good arguments to back up. Lol, no, not a strawman or misrepesentation. The quotes speak for themselves.
|
|
inherit
N7
289
0
Sept 21, 2024 0:54:11 GMT
8,016
Terminator Force
4,314
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
|
Post by Terminator Force on Feb 9, 2019 19:43:14 GMT
Lets look at this quote again, forgot what it was about. It's a misrepresentation of my argument in that I never claimed you can't make educated decisions on current information and hands on playing of demo and alpha. I'm just questioning the validity of some of the Anthem skepticism by pointing out the person hasn't even hands on with the alpha build to compare and contrast, yet is completely fine to also assert comparisons to unreleased final build with no good arguments to back up. Lol, no, not a strawman or misrepesentation. The quotes speak for themselves. Going to have to back that claim by pointing out where I said; If not, it's a strawman.
|
|
inherit
7836
0
2,286
shinobiwan
1,171
Apr 19, 2017 19:26:11 GMT
April 2017
shinobiwan
|
Post by shinobiwan on Feb 9, 2019 19:45:22 GMT
Lol, no, not a strawman or misrepesentation. The quotes speak for themselves. Going to have to back that claim by pointing out where I said; If not, it's a strawman. Did already, several times.
|
|
inherit
N7
289
0
Sept 21, 2024 0:54:11 GMT
8,016
Terminator Force
4,314
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
|
Post by Terminator Force on Feb 9, 2019 19:46:19 GMT
Going to have to back that claim by pointing out where I said; If not, it's a strawman. Did already, several times. Must have missed it, could you quote it for me?
|
|
inherit
7836
0
2,286
shinobiwan
1,171
Apr 19, 2017 19:26:11 GMT
April 2017
shinobiwan
|
Post by shinobiwan on Feb 9, 2019 19:52:04 GMT
"Oh, so you can't personally make direct comparisons to beta, demo and final game." Your words, not mine. Feel free to rehash the same arguments you made in response to this, they're completely unconvincing.
|
|
inherit
2754
0
6,000
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,295
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 9, 2019 20:02:12 GMT
Guess Caveman Force got tired of his Flat Earth BS thread if he's hanging around here...
|
|
inherit
N7
289
0
Sept 21, 2024 0:54:11 GMT
8,016
Terminator Force
4,314
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
|
Post by Terminator Force on Feb 9, 2019 20:09:39 GMT
"Oh, so you can't personally make direct comparisons to beta, demo and final game." Your words, not mine. Feel free to rehash the same arguments you made in response to this, they're completely unconvincing. Taking it out of context. Here are the preceding quotes ...
...
|
|
inherit
N7
289
0
Sept 21, 2024 0:54:11 GMT
8,016
Terminator Force
4,314
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
|
Post by Terminator Force on Feb 9, 2019 20:10:11 GMT
Guess Caveman Force got tired of his Flat Earth BS thread if he's hanging around here... I see you've not tired of making non-arguments.
|
|
inherit
2754
0
6,000
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,295
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 9, 2019 20:12:56 GMT
Guess Caveman Force got tired of his Flat Earth BS thread if he's hanging around here... I see you've not tired of making non-arguments. And I see your still doing the same old shit. Learn to do some new tricks. Because your old tricks are pure rubbish.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
244
0
Sept 26, 2016 13:29:55 GMT
19,064
Arijon van Goyen
10,446
August 2016
kaiserarian
17300
|
Post by Arijon van Goyen on Feb 9, 2019 20:18:47 GMT
With neutral approach one can say that demos are massive failures sometimes ...
|
|
inherit
8089
0
Sept 25, 2024 16:34:17 GMT
5,352
lennybusker
1,860
April 2017
lennybusker
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LennyBusker
|
Post by lennybusker on Feb 9, 2019 20:25:16 GMT
Please, before engaging with Terminator Force on anything, do yourself a favor and peruse the Flat Earth thread in the Off Topic sub, you can see you won't be arguing/debating/conversing with a sane individual.
|
|
inherit
2754
0
6,000
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,295
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 9, 2019 20:27:13 GMT
Please, before engaging with Terminator Force on anything, do yourself a favor and peruse the Flat Earth thread in the Off Topic sub, you can see you won't be arguing/debating/conversing with a sane individual. Ain't that the truth.
|
|
inherit
✜ Forge Mechanic
352
0
Jun 12, 2024 13:49:30 GMT
6,256
PapaCharlie9
3,851
August 2016
papacharlie9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 9, 2019 20:49:27 GMT
Conclusion = Either A, EA lied about it being a bets in a marketing attempt to show players that they are confident in the product by calling it a demo Or B, it was a demo and was representative of the final product. Which one is it folks? Neither, because there is an option that fits the known facts better, but that I'm surprised you didn't think of yourself, since it puts EA in a bad light. They had every intention of doing BOTH a Beta (probably closed) and a Demo. The Beta should have been an end-to-end test of all of the online services needed for a smooth launch. Notice I'm not saying gameplay (client) testing, because that shit should have been completed during the Alpha and other testing. The Demo should have been a rock solid, polished, slice of the game, since it is entirely a marketing/PR driven effort. The whole point of a demo is to get more people to buy the full product. This is supported by all the VIP spin, the incentives to pre-order, the friend code giveaways, and the EA Game Changer PR roll-out. But that's not what happened. Either because they ran out of time, perhaps because the game client was still so buggy and took more time to fix than anticipated, or competitive pressures, whatever the reason, they decided to COMBINE the Beta and the Demo, but still call it a Demo. Alternatively, they just decided to skip the Beta, based on the results of the closed Alpha. Not taking seriously enough the risk of what adding the VIP entitlement flow would do to end-to-end stability. Big mistake.
|
|