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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 11, 2019 22:48:35 GMT
Purely curious here: Have other games with similar MTX systems drastically changed their in-game economy post-launch? I can think of one maybe: Shadow of War. But I cannot actually remember if they changed the economy, but rather they did drastically change the endgame so that it wasn't seen as a random grind put in purely to entice people to buy Orc packs. Have Destiny or the Division or Fortnite changed a lot how much each of their items or lootboxes cost? I know they vary depending on rarity for some of those games. Does Battlefront II count? Potentially. I don't remember how that all panned out. Hours before launch they halted all MTX's, but not lootboxes, then I though they reworked costs for heroes and then did they finally put MTX's back in? I can't remember, all I know is that it was a shitstorm, and deservedly so. That could be a decent example. I was hoping for more of one with a decent/smooth launch and the economy just changed due to demand or something, but that's an interesting point. Luckily, as Anthem's MTX are not lootbox-related and are only for cosmetic items (currently) I think they can avoid a similar controversy easily. Time will tell.
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Post by river82 on Feb 11, 2019 23:09:17 GMT
Since the demo there's been suspicions over what the in game economy will be like and Bioware hasn't done all that much to ease those concerns. We'll see what it's like, not at launch, but about a month after launch. Purely curious here: Have other games with similar MTX systems drastically changed their in-game economy post-launch? I can think of one maybe: Shadow of War. But I cannot actually remember if they changed the economy, but rather they did drastically change the endgame so that it wasn't seen as a random grind put in purely to entice people to buy Orc packs. Have Destiny or the Division or Fortnite changed a lot how much each of their items or lootboxes cost? I know they vary depending on rarity for some of those games. There are plenty of examples of games changing their economy post launch, but many of the games which introduce pay to win elements post launch are free to play games, TBH. But players are just jaded right now. Also keep an eye out on Fallout 76 Take Archeage for example, players loved that game at launch and thought it was incredibly well balanced. Then they noticed pay to win broken equipement on the overseas servers. Players asked for those not to be included, company replied they won't be. A month later they were. Big exodus of players. Years later they brought out "fresh start" servers. People regained interest because they thought P2W elements won't be on those servers but MWAHAHAHAHAHA. Sea of Thieves was a purchasable game that introduced microtransactions 3 months post launch. This is why I prefer subscription models, because the game has to be funded in some way right? I'd rather I'd just pay up front with the game. (Which is why many people are irritated as fuck with Blizzard's in game store they introduced for WOW. It's cosmetics only sure, but why do players, who have to pay every month to play the game, still have to fork out?) Anyway Anthem was almost going to be F2P and I would have been jaded as fuck about it if it was. But it's not F2P, you have to purchase the game. IMO that's not enough to sustain the amount of continued investment they're going to pump into the game so sure, there's going to be microtransactions. And this economy is not usually introduced at launch but often introduced later. We'll see what the full extent of their planned economy is.
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terminatorforce
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TerminatorForce2
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 0:48:11 GMT
Not exactly sure how these pay to win issues that's all the talk panned out in other games, having not played them, but the system in ME3mp seemed just right.
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 12, 2019 1:28:08 GMT
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maximusarael020
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 12, 2019 3:23:12 GMT
What...uh.... What's this about?
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 12, 2019 3:46:45 GMT
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,842 Likes: 7,110
inherit
Agent 46
177
0
7,110
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,842
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 12, 2019 10:05:09 GMT
Well at least we're getting somewhere with this comment, though still jumping to conclusions. Would like for there to be a discussion on gameplay since this is where my interests lie. That and I don't have many shooters to compare Anthem having only the Mass Effect games to draw comparisons too, while quite a few here seem to have played games like Warframe and Destiny and could enlighten me on what I'm missing. For starters and to address the quoted post; - the weapons seem like a big improvement over MEAmp (which I'm no fan of) and reminded me more of the ME3mp (big fan of these weapons). - there's also weapon balance to consider, while there was a nice variety of weapons in ME3mp, some can be quiet broken like the Acolyte and Reeger. So there's a fine line that need be considered. - also we've no idea of how big the weapon sample size in demo was. That and some of the best weapons come with DLC when looking at ME3mp, and reasonably so since devs have more focus on weapons from a gameplay perspective with the game having been out for awhile and everyone more comfortable with game and ideas where to improve. We also didn't have a chance to unlock some of the more rare weapons. Again, just look at ME3mp common, to uncommon, to rare, to ultra rare for comparison. - you didn't mention the weak points on bosses that can reveal a main weakness for more dmg and other tactics to help wear down bosses faster. Not to mention more gear and weapons to unlock. Plus who knows what other strats would be discovered with time (Incendiary glitch, anyone?). So again, jumping to conclusions. - the idea of bosses lasting longer with mooks getting in the way is in my opinion an interesting gameplay mechanic. Keeps things more spontaneous and it's something the devs could work with for spicing things up and adding more depth with what new enemies could be introduced. Enemies in this game are also again interesting again like ME3mp with their little quirks and unique strats, something that was lacking in MEAmp in my opinioin. I'm coming from Warframe instead of MEMP, which may be part of the reason for our difference of opinion. Before I continue, I should mention that modding your weapons and warframes properly is an important part of Warframe's gameplay loop, and in all following statements about weapon effectiveness I am going to assume that a good, effective mod loadout was chosen. To me, Anthem's weapons seemed bland. Not just because of the looks - they look like they're all from the same manufacturer - but because all we got was essentially a small selection of conventional firearms, i.e. assault rifles, snipers, shotguns, various pistols plus some heavier Colossus-specific stuff like autocannons and grenade launchers. Warframe has all those in way greater variations plus energy rifles, plasma shotguns, throwing blades, bows (conventional and otherwise), a whole load of melee weapons in all shapes and forms ranging from conventional daggers to a bone-forged sword-and-whip and really exotic stuff like an organic living vampire-rifle that "reloads" by biting the gunner's arm. That selection makes Anthem's weapons look like an afterthought, which I find very odd for a genre that has the word "shooter" in it. Of course balance is an important factor in a looter-shooter game, but in the case of Anthem's non-moddable weapons that balance should be tuned to a point where weapons are satisfying to use and feel effective. It's a looter-shooter, and a big part of many players' motivation will come from getting more awesome guns - more awesome, not slightly less crappy. Underwhelming, bland guns are a deep flaw in a game about loot. It's true that we don't know what the sample size of loot in the demo was, but since they explicitly mentioned the things where the demo would differ from the final game like in game economy and PC flight controls and loot wasn't mentioned, I assume for now that balance changes aside, the loot in the demo was the same as in the final game. Of course there will be more rare and powerful versions of those guns in higher difficulties, but constantly looting duplicates of existing weapons and gear with slightly bigger numbers as you progress gets boring really fast, at least for me. Also, it was stated that there is only one loot table in the game, the only modification being the Javelin and difficulty you picked. There is no item that only drops in a specific place or from a specific creature or boss. You can get anything anywhere. To me this is a hint that there aren't too many different items (other than more of the same with bigger numbers) in the loot pool, because putting many different items into one single loot pool would give players a very small chance to get the items they actually want, with no chance to influence what kind of item they get. MEMP's distinction of common/uncommon/rare/ultra is in my opinion better than this. You're right, I didn't mention the weak points on bosses, but I kinda factored them into my statement. Even with shooting at weak points I found the process of whittling away hit points rather tedious, which was compounded by the fact how incredibly stupid some big enemies acted. The ursix just sat and stared at me and occasionally flung a projectile, but the time between those throwing attacks was more than enough for my shields to fully regenerate, and we both remained stationary while I slowly killed it. The lesser ash titans were happy to remain out of line of sight and spammed their attacks against the rock between me and them while I engaged them one by one. It was as boring as can be. The strongly MEA inspired robot boss seemed the exact opposite - completely relentless, constantly hammering me with damage and stuns and staggers, constantly respawning mooks all over the place, and no weak point I could discern in the resulting mess, forcing me to slowly prime-detonate it to death while running from cover to cover. Mooks getting in the way during boss fights is of course a rather standard mechanic, but in Anthem I found it obnoxious because the stream of reinforcements never abated, so much that shooting them had no purpose other than getting health or ammo pickups from them. A better balanced game would have rewarded players with at least a moment of respite and time to focus on the boss for killing them. You are assuming that better strategies will be discovered later? That's not unlikely, but isn't it you who's jumping to conclusions here? I stated the things that were present in the demo, you speculate on what might or might not be present in the finished game. It's not unreasonable of course, but I feel that in comparison to that I'm not jumping to conclusions with my statements. All these things made the shooting not very fun and the looting not very exciting to me, and in my opinion Anthem excels in neither aspect, both of which are integral to a good looter-shooter. I also think that it lacks depth because there are only four Javelins (vs. Warframe's 40 frames) and weapons can't be modded. But that is purely personal preference since I know many people who'd rather not deal with Warframe's sometimes overwhelming number crunching, so I'd consider that a neutral fact.
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Praise the Justicat!
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 12, 2019 10:22:43 GMT
Well at least we're getting somewhere with this comment, though still jumping to conclusions. Would like for there to be a discussion on gameplay since this is where my interests lie. That and I don't have many shooters to compare Anthem having only the Mass Effect games to draw comparisons too, while quite a few here seem to have played games like Warframe and Destiny and could enlighten me on what I'm missing. For starters and to address the quoted post; - the weapons seem like a big improvement over MEAmp (which I'm no fan of) and reminded me more of the ME3mp (big fan of these weapons). - there's also weapon balance to consider, while there was a nice variety of weapons in ME3mp, some can be quiet broken like the Acolyte and Reeger. So there's a fine line that need be considered. - also we've no idea of how big the weapon sample size in demo was. That and some of the best weapons come with DLC when looking at ME3mp, and reasonably so since devs have more focus on weapons from a gameplay perspective with the game having been out for awhile and everyone more comfortable with game and ideas where to improve. We also didn't have a chance to unlock some of the more rare weapons. Again, just look at ME3mp common, to uncommon, to rare, to ultra rare for comparison. - you didn't mention the weak points on bosses that can reveal a main weakness for more dmg and other tactics to help wear down bosses faster. Not to mention more gear and weapons to unlock. Plus who knows what other strats would be discovered with time (Incendiary glitch, anyone?). So again, jumping to conclusions. - the idea of bosses lasting longer with mooks getting in the way is in my opinion an interesting gameplay mechanic. Keeps things more spontaneous and it's something the devs could work with for spicing things up and adding more depth with what new enemies could be introduced. Enemies in this game are also again interesting again like ME3mp with their little quirks and unique strats, something that was lacking in MEAmp in my opinioin. I'm coming from Warframe instead of MEMP, which may be part of the reason for our difference of opinion. Before I continue, I should mention that modding your weapons and warframes properly is an important part of Warframe's gameplay loop, and in all following statements about weapon effectiveness I am going to assume that a good, effective mod loadout was chosen. To me, Anthem's weapons seemed bland. Not just because of the looks - they look like they're all from the same manufacturer - but because all we got was essentially a small selection of conventional firearms, i.e. assault rifles, snipers, shotguns, various pistols plus some heavier Colossus-specific stuff like autocannons and grenade launchers. Warframe has all those in way greater variations plus energy rifles, plasma shotguns, throwing blades, bows (conventional and otherwise), a whole load of melee weapons in all shapes and forms ranging from conventional daggers to a bone-forged sword-and-whip and really exotic stuff like an organic living vampire-rifle that "reloads" by biting the gunner's arm. That selection makes Anthem's weapons look like an afterthought, which I find very odd for a genre that has the word "shooter" in it. Of course balance is an important factor in a looter-shooter game, but in the case of Anthem's non-moddable weapons that balance should be tuned to a point where weapons are satisfying to use and feel effective. It's a looter-shooter, and a big part of many players' motivation will come from getting more awesome guns - more awesome, not slightly less crappy. Underwhelming, bland guns are a deep flaw in a game about loot. It's true that we don't know what the sample size of loot in the demo was, but since they explicitly mentioned the things where the demo would differ from the final game like in game economy and PC flight controls and loot wasn't mentioned, I assume for now that balance changes aside, the loot in the demo was the same as in the final game. Of course there will be more rare and powerful versions of those guns in higher difficulties, but constantly looting duplicates of existing weapons and gear with slightly bigger numbers as you progress gets boring really fast, at least for me. Also, it was stated that there is only one loot table in the game, the only modification being the Javelin and difficulty you picked. There is no item that only drops in a specific place or from a specific creature or boss. You can get anything anywhere. To me this is a hint that there aren't too many different items (other than more of the same with bigger numbers) in the loot pool, because putting a many different items into one single loot pool would give players a very small chance to get the items they actually want, with no chance to influence what kind of item they get. MEMP's distinction of common/uncommon/rare/ultra is in my opinion better than this. You're right, I didn't mention the weak points on bosses, but I kinda factored them into my statement. Even with shooting at weak points I found the process of whittling away hit points rather tedious, which was compounded by the fact how incredibly stupid some big enemies acted. The ursix just sat and stared at me and occasionally flung a projectile, but the time between those throwing attacks was more than enough for my shields to fully regenerate, and we both remained stationary while I slowly killed it. The lesser ash titans were happy to remain out of line of sight and spammed their attacks against the rock between me and them while I engaged them one by one. It was as boring as can be. The strongly MEA inspired robot boss seemed the exact opposite - completely relentless, constantly hammering me with damage and stuns and staggers, constantly respawning mooks all over the place, and no weak point I could discern in the resulting mess, forcing me to slowly prime-detonate it to death while running from cover to cover. Mooks getting in the way during boss fights is of course a rather standard mechanic, but in Anthem I found it obnoxious because the stream of reinforcements never abated, so much that shooting them had no other purpose other than getting health or ammo pickups from them. A better balanced game would have rewarded players with at least a moment of respite and focus on the boss for killing them. You are assuming that better strategies will be discovered later? That's not unlikely, but isn't it you who's jumping to conclusions here? I stated the things that were present in the demo, you speculate on what might or might not be present in the finished game. It's not unreasonable of course, but I feel that in comparison to that I'm not jumping to conclusions with my statements. All these things made the shooting not very fun and the looting not very exciting to me, and in my opinion Anthem excels in neither aspect, both of which are integral to a good looter-shooter. I also think that it lacks depth because there are only four Javelins (vs. Warframe's 40 frames) and weapons can't be modded. But that is purely personal preference since I know many people who'd rather not deal with Warframe's sometimes overwhelming number crunching, so I'd consider that a neutral fact. At least you had a prime-detonate cycle at hand. Now imagine only shooting the robo while the screen so shakes wildly, even the hips of Shakira would get sick.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,842 Likes: 7,110
inherit
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177
0
7,110
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,842
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 12, 2019 10:35:19 GMT
At least you had a prime-detonate cycle at hand. Now imagine only shooting the robo while the screen so shakes wildly, even the hips of Shakira would get sick. Heh, that was my first experience with it too. It taught me the error of relying on my guns and made me reconsider my Javelin's loadout.
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terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 11:46:07 GMT
Well at least we're getting somewhere with this comment, though still jumping to conclusions. Would like for there to be a discussion on gameplay since this is where my interests lie. That and I don't have many shooters to compare Anthem having only the Mass Effect games to draw comparisons too, while quite a few here seem to have played games like Warframe and Destiny and could enlighten me on what I'm missing. For starters and to address the quoted post; - the weapons seem like a big improvement over MEAmp (which I'm no fan of) and reminded me more of the ME3mp (big fan of these weapons). - there's also weapon balance to consider, while there was a nice variety of weapons in ME3mp, some can be quiet broken like the Acolyte and Reeger. So there's a fine line that need be considered. - also we've no idea of how big the weapon sample size in demo was. That and some of the best weapons come with DLC when looking at ME3mp, and reasonably so since devs have more focus on weapons from a gameplay perspective with the game having been out for awhile and everyone more comfortable with game and ideas where to improve. We also didn't have a chance to unlock some of the more rare weapons. Again, just look at ME3mp common, to uncommon, to rare, to ultra rare for comparison. - you didn't mention the weak points on bosses that can reveal a main weakness for more dmg and other tactics to help wear down bosses faster. Not to mention more gear and weapons to unlock. Plus who knows what other strats would be discovered with time (Incendiary glitch, anyone?). So again, jumping to conclusions. - the idea of bosses lasting longer with mooks getting in the way is in my opinion an interesting gameplay mechanic. Keeps things more spontaneous and it's something the devs could work with for spicing things up and adding more depth with what new enemies could be introduced. Enemies in this game are also again interesting again like ME3mp with their little quirks and unique strats, something that was lacking in MEAmp in my opinioin. I'm coming from Warframe instead of MEMP, which may be part of the reason for our difference of opinion. Before I continue, I should mention that modding your weapons and warframes properly is an important part of Warframe's gameplay loop, and in all following statements about weapon effectiveness I am going to assume that a good, effective mod loadout was chosen. To me, Anthem's weapons seemed bland. Not just because of the looks - they look like they're all from the same manufacturer - but because all we got was essentially a small selection of conventional firearms, i.e. assault rifles, snipers, shotguns, various pistols plus some heavier Colossus-specific stuff like autocannons and grenade launchers. Warframe has all those in way greater variations plus energy rifles, plasma shotguns, throwing blades, bows (conventional and otherwise), a whole load of melee weapons in all shapes and forms ranging from conventional daggers to a bone-forged sword-and-whip and really exotic stuff like an organic living vampire-rifle that "reloads" by biting the gunner's arm. That selection makes Anthem's weapons look like an afterthought, which I find very odd for a genre that has the word "shooter" in it. Of course balance is an important factor in a looter-shooter game, but in the case of Anthem's non-moddable weapons that balance should be tuned to a point where weapons are satisfying to use and feel effective. It's a looter-shooter, and a big part of many players' motivation will come from getting more awesome guns - more awesome, not slightly less crappy. Underwhelming, bland guns are a deep flaw in a game about loot. It's true that we don't know what the sample size of loot in the demo was, but since they explicitly mentioned the things where the demo would differ from the final game like in game economy and PC flight controls and loot wasn't mentioned, I assume for now that balance changes aside, the loot in the demo was the same as in the final game. Of course there will be more rare and powerful versions of those guns in higher difficulties, but constantly looting duplicates of existing weapons and gear with slightly bigger numbers as you progress gets boring really fast, at least for me. Also, it was stated that there is only one loot table in the game, the only modification being the Javelin and difficulty you picked. There is no item that only drops in a specific place or from a specific creature or boss. You can get anything anywhere. To me this is a hint that there aren't too many different items (other than more of the same with bigger numbers) in the loot pool, because putting many different items into one single loot pool would give players a very small chance to get the items they actually want, with no chance to influence what kind of item they get. MEMP's distinction of common/uncommon/rare/ultra is in my opinion better than this. You're right, I didn't mention the weak points on bosses, but I kinda factored them into my statement. Even with shooting at weak points I found the process of whittling away hit points rather tedious, which was compounded by the fact how incredibly stupid some big enemies acted. The ursix just sat and stared at me and occasionally flung a projectile, but the time between those throwing attacks was more than enough for my shields to fully regenerate, and we both remained stationary while I slowly killed it. The lesser ash titans were happy to remain out of line of sight and spammed their attacks against the rock between me and them while I engaged them one by one. It was as boring as can be. The strongly MEA inspired robot boss seemed the exact opposite - completely relentless, constantly hammering me with damage and stuns and staggers, constantly respawning mooks all over the place, and no weak point I could discern in the resulting mess, forcing me to slowly prime-detonate it to death while running from cover to cover. Mooks getting in the way during boss fights is of course a rather standard mechanic, but in Anthem I found it obnoxious because the stream of reinforcements never abated, so much that shooting them had no purpose other than getting health or ammo pickups from them. A better balanced game would have rewarded players with at least a moment of respite and time to focus on the boss for killing them. You are assuming that better strategies will be discovered later? That's not unlikely, but isn't it you who's jumping to conclusions here? I stated the things that were present in the demo, you speculate on what might or might not be present in the finished game. It's not unreasonable of course, but I feel that in comparison to that I'm not jumping to conclusions with my statements. All these things made the shooting not very fun and the looting not very exciting to me, and in my opinion Anthem excels in neither aspect, both of which are integral to a good looter-shooter. I also think that it lacks depth because there are only four Javelins (vs. Warframe's 40 frames) and weapons can't be modded. But that is purely personal preference since I know many people who'd rather not deal with Warframe's sometimes overwhelming number crunching, so I'd consider that a neutral fact. Hold on, was enjoying the read you until pulled a strawman tactic against this line of mine "Who knows what other strats would be discovered with time" is not jumping to conclusions, it's making an assumption (well more like an educated guess based on how gamers completely rip apart games with time. ME3mp under 20 min solo speedrunning anyone?) Onto the robot boss, you're talking about the giant mech spider, correct? If so, his weakness soon become the legs. Hit a weakened leg enough for extra dmg and it will reveal a new weakness on his body (good time to unleash your ultimate). Question. Did you play Warframe beta/demo for comparison and if not how long after Warframe release did you play? Or are you strictly comparing Anthem demo to current Warframe build? Because says Warframe has been out since March 2013 (with closed beta October 2012). Looking at review summary on wiki, looks like it was panned on release too, maybe suggesting players warmed up to it with time and/or updates. And can you share your opinion on Anthem strictly comparing it to MEAmp & ME3mp for the rest of us who haven't played Warframe or Destiny? A simple broad stroke answer will do.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 11:56:11 GMT
Not exactly sure how these pay to win issues that's all the talk panned out in other games, having not played them, but the system in ME3mp seemed just right. Curious why no one is addressing my question to the problem with lootboxes in PVE games? To someone who only experienced lootboxes in MEAmp & ME3mp, I fail to see the issue here.
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Praise the Justicat!
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 12, 2019 12:05:37 GMT
I'm coming from Warframe instead of MEMP, which may be part of the reason for our difference of opinion. Before I continue, I should mention that modding your weapons and warframes properly is an important part of Warframe's gameplay loop, and in all following statements about weapon effectiveness I am going to assume that a good, effective mod loadout was chosen. To me, Anthem's weapons seemed bland. Not just because of the looks - they look like they're all from the same manufacturer - but because all we got was essentially a small selection of conventional firearms, i.e. assault rifles, snipers, shotguns, various pistols plus some heavier Colossus-specific stuff like autocannons and grenade launchers. Warframe has all those in way greater variations plus energy rifles, plasma shotguns, throwing blades, bows (conventional and otherwise), a whole load of melee weapons in all shapes and forms ranging from conventional daggers to a bone-forged sword-and-whip and really exotic stuff like an organic living vampire-rifle that "reloads" by biting the gunner's arm. That selection makes Anthem's weapons look like an afterthought, which I find very odd for a genre that has the word "shooter" in it. Of course balance is an important factor in a looter-shooter game, but in the case of Anthem's non-moddable weapons that balance should be tuned to a point where weapons are satisfying to use and feel effective. It's a looter-shooter, and a big part of many players' motivation will come from getting more awesome guns - more awesome, not slightly less crappy. Underwhelming, bland guns are a deep flaw in a game about loot. It's true that we don't know what the sample size of loot in the demo was, but since they explicitly mentioned the things where the demo would differ from the final game like in game economy and PC flight controls and loot wasn't mentioned, I assume for now that balance changes aside, the loot in the demo was the same as in the final game. Of course there will be more rare and powerful versions of those guns in higher difficulties, but constantly looting duplicates of existing weapons and gear with slightly bigger numbers as you progress gets boring really fast, at least for me. Also, it was stated that there is only one loot table in the game, the only modification being the Javelin and difficulty you picked. There is no item that only drops in a specific place or from a specific creature or boss. You can get anything anywhere. To me this is a hint that there aren't too many different items (other than more of the same with bigger numbers) in the loot pool, because putting many different items into one single loot pool would give players a very small chance to get the items they actually want, with no chance to influence what kind of item they get. MEMP's distinction of common/uncommon/rare/ultra is in my opinion better than this. You're right, I didn't mention the weak points on bosses, but I kinda factored them into my statement. Even with shooting at weak points I found the process of whittling away hit points rather tedious, which was compounded by the fact how incredibly stupid some big enemies acted. The ursix just sat and stared at me and occasionally flung a projectile, but the time between those throwing attacks was more than enough for my shields to fully regenerate, and we both remained stationary while I slowly killed it. The lesser ash titans were happy to remain out of line of sight and spammed their attacks against the rock between me and them while I engaged them one by one. It was as boring as can be. The strongly MEA inspired robot boss seemed the exact opposite - completely relentless, constantly hammering me with damage and stuns and staggers, constantly respawning mooks all over the place, and no weak point I could discern in the resulting mess, forcing me to slowly prime-detonate it to death while running from cover to cover. Mooks getting in the way during boss fights is of course a rather standard mechanic, but in Anthem I found it obnoxious because the stream of reinforcements never abated, so much that shooting them had no purpose other than getting health or ammo pickups from them. A better balanced game would have rewarded players with at least a moment of respite and time to focus on the boss for killing them. You are assuming that better strategies will be discovered later? That's not unlikely, but isn't it you who's jumping to conclusions here? I stated the things that were present in the demo, you speculate on what might or might not be present in the finished game. It's not unreasonable of course, but I feel that in comparison to that I'm not jumping to conclusions with my statements. All these things made the shooting not very fun and the looting not very exciting to me, and in my opinion Anthem excels in neither aspect, both of which are integral to a good looter-shooter. I also think that it lacks depth because there are only four Javelins (vs. Warframe's 40 frames) and weapons can't be modded. But that is purely personal preference since I know many people who'd rather not deal with Warframe's sometimes overwhelming number crunching, so I'd consider that a neutral fact. ... Question. Did you play Warframe beta/demo for comparison and if not how long after Warframe release did you play? Or are you strictly comparing Anthem demo to current Warframe build? Because says Warframe has been out since March 2013 (with closed beta October 2012). Looking at review summary on wiki, looks like it was panned on release too, maybe suggesting players warmed up to it with time and/or updates. ... Beta Warframe had more frames than Anthem has Javelins. No open world. Good soundtrack. Working solo mode. Progression for frames and weapons was mostly the same. Frequent content updates were already a thing. "Towers" were endgame (Playing for loot in the Void).
Bosses had invincibility often, there were certain sequences to do sth / deal damage to spot to take them down.
Loot wasn't that much more I think weapon wise. Or maybe it was? We had different melee weapons from start. Even a radiator onna stick, most ugly hammer ever. Content was already quite ample. At the time I dint really look for cosmetic stuff.
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Post by river82 on Feb 12, 2019 12:07:11 GMT
Not exactly sure how these pay to win issues that's all the talk panned out in other games, having not played them, but the system in ME3mp seemed just right. Curious why no one is addressing my question to the problem with lootboxes in PVE games? To someone who only experienced lootboxes in MEAmp & ME3mp, I fail to see the issue here. Not sure what your question is? In multiplayer and especially PvP, pay to win is an abomination granting advantages to the rich in games with other people. In single player ... nobody cares.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 12, 2019 12:11:11 GMT
Curious why no one is addressing my question to the problem with lootboxes in PVE games? To someone who only experienced lootboxes in MEAmp & ME3mp, I fail to see the issue here. Not sure what your question is? In multiplayer and especially PvP, pay to win is an abomination granting advantages to the rich in games with other people. In single player ... nobody cares. Unless progress is throttled by design to sell all the paid cheats and mtx to make the grind bearable again.
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Post by saandrig on Feb 12, 2019 12:13:04 GMT
Curious why no one is addressing my question to the problem with lootboxes in PVE games? To someone who only experienced lootboxes in MEAmp & ME3mp, I fail to see the issue here. Not sure what your question is? In multiplayer and especially PvP, pay to win is an abomination granting advantages to the rich in games with other people. In single player ... nobody cares. Unless it's like Shadow of War (prepatch) where they introduced a long boring grind in order to continue the story. Or you could pay for boxes to skip it. Not exactly P2W, but just as crappy. And people were right to be angry. There was some crying that AC Odyssey also tries to force you into buying Exp boosts, but that was probably only for people who ignored the million ways to get exp (all quests outside the main one for example) and also couldn't use a simple free trainer program to modify the exp gain.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 12:16:58 GMT
Curious why no one is addressing my question to the problem with lootboxes in PVE games? To someone who only experienced lootboxes in MEAmp & ME3mp, I fail to see the issue here. Not sure what your question is? In multiplayer and especially PvP, pay to win is an abomination granting advantages to the rich in games with other people. In single player ... nobody cares. Why PVE was specifically mentioned. And not like removing lootboxes would prevent new players running into endgame equipment players.
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Post by river82 on Feb 12, 2019 12:20:14 GMT
Not sure what your question is? In multiplayer and especially PvP, pay to win is an abomination granting advantages to the rich in games with other people. In single player ... nobody cares. Why PVE was specifically mentioned. And not like removing lootboxes would prevent new players running into endgame equipment players. Unless that equipment is almost impossible to get without paying for it...
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 12:22:50 GMT
... Question. Did you play Warframe beta/demo for comparison and if not how long after Warframe release did you play? Or are you strictly comparing Anthem demo to current Warframe build? Because says Warframe has been out since March 2013 (with closed beta October 2012). Looking at review summary on wiki, looks like it was panned on release too, maybe suggesting players warmed up to it with time and/or updates. ... Beta Warframe had more frames than Anthem has Javelins. No open world. Good soundtrack. Working solo mode. Progression for frames and weapons was mostly the same. Frequent content updates were already a thing. "Towers" were endgame (Playing for loot in the Void).
Bosses had invincibility often, there were certain sequences to do sth / deal damage to spot to take them down.
Loot wasn't that much more I think weapon wise. Or maybe it was? We had different melee weapons from start. Even a radiator onna stick, most ugly hammer ever. Content was already quite ample. At the time I dint really look for cosmetic stuff.
Frequent content updates on a beta? Assume beta lasted more then 3 days then... and looking it up briefly on wiki seems to confirm this. This is a large contrast to Anthem's 3 days strictly stress test beta. So can I say apples to oranges?
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 12:23:26 GMT
Why PVE was specifically mentioned. And not like removing lootboxes would prevent new players running into endgame equipment players. Unless that equipment is almost impossible to get without paying for it... Explain.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 12:26:31 GMT
Not sure what your question is? In multiplayer and especially PvP, pay to win is an abomination granting advantages to the rich in games with other people. In single player ... nobody cares. Unless it's like Shadow of War (prepatch) where they introduced a long boring grind in order to continue the story. Or you could pay for boxes to skip it. Not exactly P2W, but just as crappy. And people were right to be angry. There was some crying that AC Odyssey also tries to force you into buying Exp boosts, but that was probably only for people who ignored the million ways to get exp (all quests outside the main one for example) and also couldn't use a simple free trainer program to modify the exp gain. Ah, ok. Being forced to pay does sound problematic. Therefore a valid argument against lootboxes.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 12, 2019 12:26:44 GMT
Beta Warframe had more frames than Anthem has Javelins. No open world. Good soundtrack. Working solo mode. Progression for frames and weapons was mostly the same. Frequent content updates were already a thing. "Towers" were endgame (Playing for loot in the Void).
Bosses had invincibility often, there were certain sequences to do sth / deal damage to spot to take them down.
Loot wasn't that much more I think weapon wise. Or maybe it was? We had different melee weapons from start. Even a radiator onna stick, most ugly hammer ever. Content was already quite ample. At the time I dint really look for cosmetic stuff.
Frequent content updates on a beta? Assume beta lasted more then 3 days then... and looking it up briefly on wiki seems to confirm this. This is a large contrast to Anthem's 3 days strictly stress test beta. So can I say apples to oranges? It was so long in beta with a store up it really felt weird. While it all was working already, it wasn't their vision, but I would never have imagined they'd take it so far as they did.
You can also say kale and carrots. I'd have a hard time to choose between. I just love the juicy orange of carrots, but the dark, saturated green of kale - that's something special, too.
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Post by river82 on Feb 12, 2019 12:29:45 GMT
Unless that equipment is almost impossible to get without paying for it... Explain. Pay to win is a design mechanic that's pretty much a staple of free to play games. These games will typically allow you to play for free, but to progress in any meaningful manner, or to actually compete you have to pay, and sometimes pay a lot of money. The worst part is, you don’t even have to aim if you pay. There’s the pet system in the game. These pets attack other players automatically. F2P’ers won’t have enough pet parts to upgrade their mythical pets (if they even have them, as mythical pets are very rare), so their pets will barely do damage. However those who spend $54.99 on a max upgraded mythical pet will get ridiculously OP pets, such as a pet with a laser that can 2-shot from across the map, or a pet that can 2-shot and slow the enemy down to a crawl.
www.quora.com/What-is-the-worst-Pay-To-Win-gameWhich is why it was a good move for Anthem to move away from being F2P. F2P games have a bad reputation. There was a big cry recently when someone dug into the code for Fallout 76 and found placeholders for improved weapons you could get through microtransactions, but Bethesda came out and said those weapons were to be obtained through events. Worth keeping an eye on though. Lootboxes are frowned upon for other reasons, but lootboxes don't automatically mean pay to win.
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 12, 2019 12:30:07 GMT
Hold on, was enjoying the read you until pulled a strawman tactic against this line of mine "Who knows what other strats would be discovered with time" is not jumping to conclusions, it's making an assumption (well more like an educated guess based on how gamers completely rip apart games with time. ME3mp under 20 min solo speedrunning anyone?) Onto the robot boss, you're talking about the giant mech spider, correct? If so, his weakness soon become the legs. Hit a weakened leg enough for extra dmg and it will reveal a new weakness on his body (good time to unleash your ultimate). Question. Did you play Warframe beta/demo for comparison and if not how long after Warframe release did you play? Or are you strictly comparing Anthem demo to current Warframe build? Because says Warframe has been out since March 2013 (with closed beta October 2012). Looking at review summary on wiki, looks like it was panned on release too, maybe suggesting players warmed up to it with time and/or updates. And can you share your opinion on Anthem strictly comparing it to MEAmp & ME3mp for the rest of us who haven't played Warframe or Destiny? A simple broad stroke answer will do. Okay, I'll give you the assumption vs jumping to conclusion point. That was my mistake for using the wrong expression. Assumption is the better word. Sorry. Yes, I was referring to the spider bot, and I never noticed the weak points at his legs. I just couldn't stay out of cover for long enough to do anything but pop a few quick shots or powers at it. Thank you for letting me know. I never played the Warframe beta, I started playing it four years after release. However, both games started development in 2012 and Warframe was made by a smaller team. So both teams had about the same time to develop their product, Warframe just has had way more player exposure. That gives Digital Extremes five years (that anniversary was some time last year) of "public testing" and a pretty damn good idea of what their players like and don't like, but it doesn't give them more time to make and update their game. I'm comparing two products about six years in the making by two different teams, which I don't think is unfair. Warframe's release version was indeed quite barebones compared to what it is today, but it took them only one year to make that... not six. It's also not the amount of content I criticized - I didn't expect a massive pile of weapons on release. It's how similar they look and how none of them stands out in any way that I don't like. It's like a super average selection of conventional guns, in a game about flying suits and big monsters. I expected something more exciting in the shooting department and would gladly trade half the amount of weapons the game currently has for more punch and variety for the rest. Hmm, unfortunately a broad answer is the only thing I can give you when comparing it to MEAMP or ME3MP. I haven't played either in a while and never got far enough in either to get the ultra rares fully maxed out. Anyone with more experience in either game could contradict me and would likely be right. I can just try to give a very subjective impression. I like Anthem's movement much better than in both games. The flying is awesome, and running feels better due to camera position, no cover to stick to and a better field of view. In relation to that, I like Anthem's big maps and their verticality. I can explore instead of being confined to an arena style battleground. The variety in kits is clearly smaller. Even with the customization slots, four Javelins don't get close to what MEAMP and ME3MP offered. Anthem's shooting actually feels slightly better than in either game, as far as the mook kill rate is concerned, and I prefer mobility in combat over sticking to cover. The weapon selection does not compare to ME3MP or MEAMP. Especially in ME3MP I could look at a weapon's silhouette and knew which one it was. They were distinctive. In Anthem I had to mouse over my guns every time I picked another one because they all look so similar. I also like that there were levels of rarity in ME3MP and MEAMP. Getting an ultra-rare was an exciting moment. Anthem initially had me excited when something was blue or even purple because those color codes seem to have become universal in loot related gaming, but when the loot was actually revealed at the end of the expedition I generally wasn't overly impressed. I think BioWare's combat design in both the Mass Effect and Anthem franchise favors power use over weapon use. It worked in ME3MP and MEAMP because of how many kits these games have. Anthem however only has four Javelins, so in my opinion it should try to get some variety into combat in some other way, like a bunch of fun to use and effective weapons.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Feb 12, 2019 12:31:08 GMT
Not sure what your question is? In multiplayer and especially PvP, pay to win is an abomination granting advantages to the rich in games with other people. In single player ... nobody cares. Unless it's like Shadow of War (prepatch) where they introduced a long boring grind in order to continue the story. Or you could pay for boxes to skip it. Not exactly P2W, but just as crappy. And people were right to be angry. There was some crying that AC Odyssey also tries to force you into buying Exp boosts, but that was probably only for people who ignored the million ways to get exp (all quests outside the main one for example) and also couldn't use a simple free trainer program to modify the exp gain. ok no, the last part is bullshit. Most well thought out RPGs allow you to shotgun the story if you want and then mop up the side quests as, you know, they are side content. In ACO you CANNOT. The story is XP gated and you HAVE to do the side quests to progress. Worse those XP boosters are called TIME SAVERS which confirms that the ACO developers saw the side quests as CHORES so that they could bore you into buy these xP boosts that LO AND BEHOLD allow you to play the campaign straight up and be always at the proper level as you progress almost as of this was planned. Now I know what some are gonna say "but it is for player's choice". Nope. No it is not. Player's choice would be a FREE TOGGLE in the game's many labelled as "faster XP" or something. Non dissimilar from a difficulty level menu. This is something that is given to you as a mean to avoid what even the developers indirectly labeled and directly designed as an ANNOYANCE (they are repetitive as fuck and necessary...thus, annoyances.) This is more like a "pay us more cash to avoid ads" or "pay a premium to skip the grind" fuck that shit TYVM.
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Post by river82 on Feb 12, 2019 12:32:55 GMT
Unless it's like Shadow of War (prepatch) where they introduced a long boring grind in order to continue the story. Or you could pay for boxes to skip it. Not exactly P2W, but just as crappy. And people were right to be angry. There was some crying that AC Odyssey also tries to force you into buying Exp boosts, but that was probably only for people who ignored the million ways to get exp (all quests outside the main one for example) and also couldn't use a simple free trainer program to modify the exp gain. ok no, the last part is bullshit. Most well thought out RPGs allow you to shotgun the story if you want and then mop up the side quests as, you know, they are side content. In ACO you CANNOT. The story is XP gated and you HAVE to do the side quests to progress. Worse those XP boosters are called TIME SAVERS which confirms that the ACO developers saw the side quests as CHORES so that they could bore you into buy these xP boosts that LO AND BEHOLD allow you to play the campaign straight up and be always at the proper level as you progress almost as of this was planned. Now I know what some are gonna say "but it is for player's choice". Nope. No it is not. Player's choice would be a FREE TOGGLE in the game's many labelled as "faster XP" or something. Non dissimilar from a difficulty level menu. This is something that is given to you as a mean to avoid what even the developers indirectly labeled and directly designed as an ANNOYANCE (they are repetitive as fuck and necessary...thus, annoyances.) This is more like a "pay us more cash to avoid ads" or "pay a premium to skip the grind" fuck that shit TYVM. My sister even bought XP boosters and she's a completionist, loves to do every side quest. She felt she had to, though
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