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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 12:33:11 GMT
Frequent content updates on a beta? Assume beta lasted more then 3 days then... and looking it up briefly on wiki seems to confirm this. This is a large contrast to Anthem's 3 days strictly stress test beta. So can I say apples to oranges? It was so long in beta with a store up it really felt weird. While it all was working already, it wasn't their vision, but I would never have imagined they'd take it so far as they did.
You can also say kale and carrots. I'd have a hard time to choose between. I just love the juicy orange of carrots, but the dark, saturated green of kale - that's something special, too.
Interesting. And in your humble opinion can you imagine Anthem being taken that far or does the foundation seem too flawed?
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 12, 2019 12:37:08 GMT
It was so long in beta with a store up it really felt weird. While it all was working already, it wasn't their vision, but I would never have imagined they'd take it so far as they did.
You can also say kale and carrots. I'd have a hard time to choose between. I just love the juicy orange of carrots, but the dark, saturated green of kale - that's something special, too.
Interesting. And in your humble opinion can you imagine Anthem being taken that far or does the foundation seem too flawed? Maybe. I don't think it will. Cos EA, but I already was wrong with Warframe and how far you can take a game. I think Anthem is a bit short on content at released, based from what I saw.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Feb 12, 2019 12:39:14 GMT
ok no, the last part is bullshit. Most well thought out RPGs allow you to shotgun the story if you want and then mop up the side quests as, you know, they are side content. In ACO you CANNOT. The story is XP gated and you HAVE to do the side quests to progress. Worse those XP boosters are called TIME SAVERS which confirms that the ACO developers saw the side quests as CHORES so that they could bore you into buy these xP boosts that LO AND BEHOLD allow you to play the campaign straight up and be always at the proper level as you progress almost as of this was planned. Now I know what some are gonna say "but it is for player's choice". Nope. No it is not. Player's choice would be a FREE TOGGLE in the game's many labelled as "faster XP" or something. Non dissimilar from a difficulty level menu. This is something that is given to you as a mean to avoid what even the developers indirectly labeled and directly designed as an ANNOYANCE (they are repetitive as fuck and necessary...thus, annoyances.) This is more like a "pay us more cash to avoid ads" or "pay a premium to skip the grind" fuck that shit TYVM. My sister even bought XP boosters and she's a completionist, loves to do every side quest. She felt she had to, though because a lot of completionists do the main quest first then the side contents and side missions (minus the ones which have a effect on the main quest). In ACO you can't do that.
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Feb 12, 2019 12:41:47 GMT
Remember when we had cheat codes in single-player games for faster leveling and other unlocks?
Pepperidge farm remembers. Now... THAT is indeed choice.
Skyrim 2011, is choice.
As soon as a company introduces additional ways to gain income within the game (microtransactions in single player games) then it no longer becomes a choice, the game will be designed to lure people into buying.
Otherwise you would not have these things which gives the company another possible income, introduced in the first place.
It is just basic business.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 12:43:46 GMT
Hold on, was enjoying the read you until pulled a strawman tactic against this line of mine "Who knows what other strats would be discovered with time" is not jumping to conclusions, it's making an assumption (well more like an educated guess based on how gamers completely rip apart games with time. ME3mp under 20 min solo speedrunning anyone?) Onto the robot boss, you're talking about the giant mech spider, correct? If so, his weakness soon become the legs. Hit a weakened leg enough for extra dmg and it will reveal a new weakness on his body (good time to unleash your ultimate). Question. Did you play Warframe beta/demo for comparison and if not how long after Warframe release did you play? Or are you strictly comparing Anthem demo to current Warframe build? Because says Warframe has been out since March 2013 (with closed beta October 2012). Looking at review summary on wiki, looks like it was panned on release too, maybe suggesting players warmed up to it with time and/or updates. And can you share your opinion on Anthem strictly comparing it to MEAmp & ME3mp for the rest of us who haven't played Warframe or Destiny? A simple broad stroke answer will do. Okay, I'll give you the assumption vs jumping to conclusion point. That was my mistake for using the wrong expression. Assumption is the better word. Sorry. Yes, I was referring to the spider bot, and I never noticed the weak points at his legs. I just couldn't stay out of cover for long enough to do anything but pop a few quick shots or powers at it. Thank you for letting me know. I never played the Warframe beta, I started playing it four years after release. However, both games started development in 2012 and Warframe was made by a smaller team. So both teams had about the same time to develop their product, Warframe just has had way more player exposure. That gives Digital Extremes five years (that anniversary was some time last year) of "public testing" and a pretty damn good idea of what their players like and don't like, but it doesn't give them more time to make and update their game. I'm comparing two products about six years in the making by two different teams, which I don't think is unfair. Warframe's release version was indeed quite barebones compared to what it is today, but it took them only one year to make that... not six. It's also not the amount of content I criticized - I didn't expect a massive pile of weapons on release. It's how similar they look and how none of them stands out in any way that I don't like. It's like a super average selection of conventional guns, in a game about flying suits and big monsters. I expected something more exciting in the shooting department and would gladly trade half the amount of weapons the game currently has for more punch and variety for the rest. Hmm, unfortunately a broad answer is the only thing I can give you when comparing it to MEAMP or ME3MP. I haven't played either in a while and never got far enough in either to get the ultra rares fully maxed out. Anyone with more experience in either game could contradict me and would likely be right. I can just try to give a very subjective impression. I like Anthem's movement much better than in both games. The flying is awesome, and running feels better due to camera position, no cover to stick to and a better field of view. In relation to that, I like Anthem's big maps and their verticality. I can explore instead of being confined to an arena style battleground. The variety in kits is clearly smaller. Even with the customization slots, four Javelins don't get close to what MEAMP and ME3MP offered. Anthem's shooting actually feels slightly better than in either game, as far as the mook kill rate is concerned, and I prefer mobility in combat over sticking to cover. The weapon selection does not compare to ME3MP or MEAMP. Especially in ME3MP I could look at a weapon's silhouette and knew which one it was. They were distinctive. In Anthem I had to mouse over my guns every time I picked another one because they all look so similar. I also like that there were levels of rarity in ME3MP and MEAMP. Getting an ultra-rare was an exciting moment. Anthem initially had me excited when something was blue or even purple because those color codes seem to have become universal in loot related gaming, but when the loot was actually revealed at the end of the expedition I generally wasn't overly impressed. I think BioWare's combat design in both the Mass Effect and Anthem franchise favors power use over weapon use. It worked in ME3MP and MEAMP because of how many kits these games have. Anthem however only has four Javelins, so in my opinion it should try to get some variety into combat in some other way, like a bunch of fun to use and effective weapons. To be fair, with Anthem most of that time seemed spent on brainstorming to come up with something new enough. And going by some info BioWare released, seems a lot of that time was used to plan well ahead too (which contrasts with building as you go tactic of Warframe).
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 12:47:09 GMT
dropzofcrimzon some interesting insight into pay to win model I was not aware of, thank you. Lets hope they adopt a ME3 & MEA lootbox model.
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N3
People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Feb 12, 2019 12:48:12 GMT
Regardless. EA have had Apex Legends released recently.
And considering it's popularity the easy conclusion to be made would be: Keep a free-to-play game economy restricted to free-to-play games.
If your game is free-to-play, then by all means, fill it to the brim with microtransactions. If it has a 60$ pricetag, son... you may want to cut down the microtransactions a little.
Apex Legends is proving a lot of stuff it seems.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by saandrig on Feb 12, 2019 12:58:32 GMT
My sister even bought XP boosters and she's a completionist, loves to do every side quest. She felt she had to, though because a lot of completionists do the main quest first then the side contents and side missions (minus the ones which have a effect on the main quest). In ACO you can't do that. So a certain type of play (main quest only) is gated. That is something to look at, true. Other games have done that too and they didn't even offer exp boosts (DAI, SWTOR before the Cartel market, etc). I had zero issues in that regard in 2 runs of the game since I took it slow as an exploration journey and never rushed the main story only. Was never underlevel. And many side quests were even better than the main ones, so hardly a chore. But I always preffered side questing (I call DA2 one giant side quest). There is an argument for playing the game as the developer (may have) intended or as the player prefers. In ACOD it probably sucks the most for console players who follow the main quest only since they don't have any free way to modify the exp. Personally I would avoid such a game if I had that playstyle. But in ACOD I literally never felt the need for exp boosts as I just accepted and did the stuff that was being thrown at me while following the main quests. I can't pass an exclamation mark without checking what is going on.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Feb 12, 2019 13:10:11 GMT
dropzofcrimzon some interesting insight into pay to win model I was not aware of, thank you. Lets hope they adopt a ME3 & MEA lootbox model. *resists urge to say models are pseudoscience* Anyway, why are lootcrates preferred? I thought that sort of thing got them in trouble for gambling.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 12, 2019 13:11:44 GMT
Regardless. EA have had Apex Legends released recently. And considering it's popularity the easy conclusion to be made would be: Keep a free-to-play game economy restricted to free-to-play games. If your game is free-to-play, then by all means, fill it to the brim with microtransactions. If it has a 60$ pricetag, son... you may want to cut down the microtransactions a little. Apex Legends is proving a lot of stuff it seems. It's also less demanding on hardware requirements so addresses more players.
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 3,703 Likes: 7,744
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Post by saandrig on Feb 12, 2019 13:14:20 GMT
dropzofcrimzon some interesting insight into pay to win model I was not aware of, thank you. Lets hope they adopt a ME3 & MEA lootbox model. *resusts urge to say models are pseudoscience* Anyway, why are lootcrates preferred? I thought that sort of thing got them in trouble for gambling. If the crates contain non-cosmetic items (better guns/gear, etc.) and you can buy crates with real money - gambling (aleggedly). If it's just cosmetic fashion show, nobody cares.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 12, 2019 13:18:52 GMT
*resusts urge to say models are pseudoscience* Anyway, why are lootcrates preferred? I thought that sort of thing got them in trouble for gambling. If the crates contain non-cosmetic items (better guns/gear, etc.) and you can buy crates with real money - gambling (aleggedly). If it's just cosmetic fashion show, nobody cares. Any RNG based loot crate you can buy for cash is gambling.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 3,703 Likes: 7,744
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Post by saandrig on Feb 12, 2019 13:24:01 GMT
If the crates contain non-cosmetic items (better guns/gear, etc.) and you can buy crates with real money - gambling (aleggedly). If it's just cosmetic fashion show, nobody cares. Any RNG based loot crate you can buy for cash is gambling. They take all the fun out of it 😂 Makes sense, but I still don't care if it's just cosmetic. Does SWTOR dance around it? It has RNG crates that you get by leveling up in Rank and you can buy boosters that help you level up quicker. So you pay to get RNG crates faster. Everything else you pay for is not RNG though.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Feb 12, 2019 13:26:25 GMT
dropzofcrimzon some interesting insight into pay to win model I was not aware of, thank you. Lets hope they adopt a ME3 & MEA lootbox model. there is also a lovely video out there with an XP chart that shows the progression pre and post XP boost compared to the campaign xp requirements tho show people how it is perfectly engendered to give you back the experience you were MEANT to have before they throttled the progression to sell you the xp boosts. It is pretty pathetic. Also...it would be better if they just let me play the game solo at a reasonable progression rate and let me ignore loot boxes. Or exclude them altogether.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Feb 12, 2019 13:30:42 GMT
because a lot of completionists do the main quest first then the side contents and side missions (minus the ones which have a effect on the main quest). In ACO you can't do that. So a certain type of play (main quest only) is gated. That is something to look at, true. Other games have done that too and they didn't even offer exp boosts (DAI, SWTOR before the Cartel market, etc). I had zero issues in that regard in 2 runs of the game since I took it slow as an exploration journey and never rushed the main story only. Was never underlevel. And many side quests were even better than the main ones, so hardly a chore. But I always preffered side questing (I call DA2 one giant side quest). There is an argument for playing the game as the developer (may have) intended or as the player prefers. In ACOD it probably sucks the most for console players who follow the main quest only since they don't have any free way to modify the exp. Personally I would avoid such a game if I had that playstyle. But in ACOD I literally never felt the need for exp boosts as I just accepted and did the stuff that was being thrown at me while following the main quests. I can't pass an exclamation mark without checking what is going on. The difference is that in this case even the way the devs labelled items and services in the game shows you that this was done with malice and trying to bore people into spending more. Also, I am a fan of the free market. If enough backlash is leveled at EA and they lose enough money (and they lost A LOT lately) they will pull back Hence my hope for Anthem to fail miserably, publicly and undeniably with no way to board members to spin it.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Feb 12, 2019 13:31:58 GMT
Any RNG based loot crate you can buy for cash is gambling. They take all the fun out of it 😂 Makes sense, but I still don't care if it's just cosmetic. Does SWTOR dance around it? It has RNG crates that you get by leveling up in Rank and you can buy boosters that help you level up quicker. So you pay to get RNG crates faster. Everything else you pay for is not RNG though. not technically as you are paying for a known quantity not the loot box itself.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 13:32:16 GMT
dropzofcrimzon some interesting insight into pay to win model I was not aware of, thank you. Lets hope they adopt a ME3 & MEA lootbox model. *resists urge to say models are pseudoscience*
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 13:55:40 GMT
So a certain type of play (main quest only) is gated. That is something to look at, true. Other games have done that too and they didn't even offer exp boosts (DAI, SWTOR before the Cartel market, etc). I had zero issues in that regard in 2 runs of the game since I took it slow as an exploration journey and never rushed the main story only. Was never underlevel. And many side quests were even better than the main ones, so hardly a chore. But I always preffered side questing (I call DA2 one giant side quest). There is an argument for playing the game as the developer (may have) intended or as the player prefers. In ACOD it probably sucks the most for console players who follow the main quest only since they don't have any free way to modify the exp. Personally I would avoid such a game if I had that playstyle. But in ACOD I literally never felt the need for exp boosts as I just accepted and did the stuff that was being thrown at me while following the main quests. I can't pass an exclamation mark without checking what is going on. The difference is that in this case even the way the devs labelled items and services in the game shows you that this was done with malice and trying to bore people into spending more. Also, I am a fan of the free market. If enough backlash is leveled at EA and they lose enough money (and they lost A LOT lately) they will pull back Hence my hope for Anthem to fail miserably, publicly and undeniably with no way to board members to spin it. Why not hope they get it right?
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 12, 2019 13:57:36 GMT
Regardless. EA have had Apex Legends released recently. And considering it's popularity the easy conclusion to be made would be: Keep a free-to-play game economy restricted to free-to-play games. If your game is free-to-play, then by all means, fill it to the brim with microtransactions. If it has a 60$ pricetag, son... you may want to cut down the microtransactions a little. Apex Legends is proving a lot of stuff it seems. All that conclusion tells me, is they'll start making every game "F2P" so they can keep putting MTXs in all of their products, rather than just some of them.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 12, 2019 13:59:41 GMT
The difference is that in this case even the way the devs labelled items and services in the game shows you that this was done with malice and trying to bore people into spending more. Also, I am a fan of the free market. If enough backlash is leveled at EA and they lose enough money (and they lost A LOT lately) they will pull back Hence my hope for Anthem to fail miserably, publicly and undeniably with no way to board members to spin it. Why not hope they get it right? Drama is today's fuel that keeps people going. Nobody would mind a good game, tho. Drama can be had elsewhere, or with the nerfs of a good game. Tho the drama is just potentially imminent with launch around corner.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 12, 2019 14:02:28 GMT
The difference is that in this case even the way the devs labelled items and services in the game shows you that this was done with malice and trying to bore people into spending more. Also, I am a fan of the free market. If enough backlash is leveled at EA and they lose enough money (and they lost A LOT lately) they will pull back Hence my hope for Anthem to fail miserably, publicly and undeniably with no way to board members to spin it. Why not hope they get it right? Because EA, is the answer you will get. But I simply cannot understand why any gamer who is pro-consumer would wish this game to fail frankly. All content updates are free. mtxs only for cosmetic items, all of which can still be earned with Coin. Literally the only thing you have to pay for is the game, and if your on console PS Pluse or Xbox Live. Given how bad the AAA business model has been, in my humble opinion this game needs to be supported, regardless of weather or not it ends up actually being good. Because if this game crashes and burns, all thats gonna say to EA is "Welp, we tried giving you content for free, you didn't support it so WEEE we're gonna go back to charging you for every little thing!"
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 12, 2019 14:11:53 GMT
Why not hope they get it right? Because EA, is the answer you will get. But I simply cannot understand why any gamer who is pro-consumer would wish this game to fail frankly. All content updates are free. mtxs only for cosmetic items, all of which can still be earned with Coin. Literally the only thing you have to pay for is the game, and if your on console PS Pluse or Xbox Live. Given how bad the AAA business model has been, in my humble opinion this game needs to be supported, regardless of weather or not it ends up actually being good. Because if this game crashes and burns, all thats gonna say to EA is "Welp, we tried giving you content for free, you didn't support it so WEEE we're gonna go back to charging you for every little thing!" With 60 buuck pricetag it is a gamble, (No, not you Mike) since you simply don't know how the after launch content will pan out. In F2P you don't have that upfront risk. That kinda puts some on "wait and see" mode. Me too, if I had the proper rig to run it decently in the first place.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 12, 2019 14:26:06 GMT
Why not hope they get it right? Because EA, is the answer you will get. ME3mp is my most played videogame of all time by a longshot (more then ME Trilogy) at around 4000 hours. From what I've gathered, ME3mp only exists because of EA and it's lootbox system.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 12, 2019 14:31:43 GMT
Because EA, is the answer you will get. ME3mp is my most played videogame of all time by a longshot (more then ME Trilogy) at around 4000 hours. From what I've gathered, ME3mp only exists because of EA and it's lootbox system. Nah, it exists because a bright spark of enlightenment enkindled the team and made them create one jewel of MP to capture that spark forever.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 12, 2019 14:35:44 GMT
Because EA, is the answer you will get. But I simply cannot understand why any gamer who is pro-consumer would wish this game to fail frankly. All content updates are free. mtxs only for cosmetic items, all of which can still be earned with Coin. Literally the only thing you have to pay for is the game, and if your on console PS Pluse or Xbox Live. Given how bad the AAA business model has been, in my humble opinion this game needs to be supported, regardless of weather or not it ends up actually being good. Because if this game crashes and burns, all thats gonna say to EA is "Welp, we tried giving you content for free, you didn't support it so WEEE we're gonna go back to charging you for every little thing!" With 60 buuck pricetag it is a gamble, (No, not you Mike) since you simply don't know how the after launch content will pan out. In F2P you don't have that upfront risk. That kinda puts some on "wait and see" mode. Me too, if I had the proper rig to run it decently in the first place. I understand that reasoning. But the fact remains. People around here who hope this game crashes and burns, and fails on an epic scale? They have no idea what monster that would unleash. This is the most consumer friendly business model a $60 game has had at launch from EA in a long time. Sure, there is no risk in a F2P game, but the odds of a F2P being more lobotomized by mtx is in theory, much greater. Now maybes that is a trade off some people are willing to make, possibly with some of them ending up spending more than $60 in the long run. That is entirely their choice.
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