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Post by lennybusker on Feb 17, 2019 2:56:07 GMT
Man after doing a couple dozen main and side quests, I just want to know from BioWare's dialogue writers and VO directors... Whatever fuckin happened to gravitas? Can't anyone take anything fucking seriously in your games anymore? It's always goddamn sarcasm this and quip that and banter this and pun that. Fuckin hell it's just so...exhausting. I hated that shit in Andromeda and it's just as bad if not worse in Anthem.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 17, 2019 2:57:15 GMT
Hell, this was a live topic back on the old NWN boards. The NWN toolset made it easy enough to move NPCs around -- it was actually part of the scripting documentation -- so people were complaining that the devs were too lazy to do this. The dev response was that mobile NPCs were a bad idea, and they had no intention of implementing them. IIRC the reason was that players found it annoying rather than immersive. Yesterday I said that for me Bioware's gone from trendsetter to following others footsteps. The example you highlighted is just one example why. I don't follow. How is refusing to make NPCs mobile a case of following others? Bio's refusing to make mobile NPCs even though other devs do, because they don't believe the feature is useful and never have. Remember, I was responding to Kappa Neko posting that Bio wasn't copying other devs enough.
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Post by river82 on Feb 17, 2019 3:02:32 GMT
Yesterday I said that for me Bioware's gone from trendsetter to following others footsteps. The example you highlighted is just one example why. I don't follow. How is refusing to make NPCs mobile a case of following others? Bio's refusing to make mobile NPCs even though other devs do, because they don't believe the feature is useful and never have. Remember, I was responding to Kappa Neko posting that Bio wasn't copying other devs enough. Mobile NPCs, or NPCs that are more detailed, are constantly quoted as one way to make living and breathing worlds. Open world games rely more strongly on strong worldbuilding or making living, breathing worlds. So the more open world games are the future it's only a matter of time before NPC schedules to be common place. Which means it's only a matter of time before Bioware implements it. After shunning it 10 years ago.
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 17, 2019 3:05:21 GMT
Yesterday I said that for me Bioware's gone from trendsetter to following others footsteps. The example you highlighted is just one example why. I don't follow. How is refusing to make NPCs mobile a case of following others? Bio's refusing to make mobile NPCs even though other devs do, because they don't believe the feature is useful and never have. Remember, I was responding to Kappa Neko posting that Bio wasn't copying other devs enough. You are citing NWN ... and the devs were talking about quest givers and shopkeeps. They didn't want them to have schedules because players didn't want to wait until morning for the shop to open ... etc yadda yadda.
Nevermind that many players DID want the essential npc's to also have schedules but whatever.
The conversation at hand was the inanity of the current decorative npc's in Fort Tarsis and how all they do is gesticulate for no reason, don't do anything convincing, don't interact with the player character and basically should just be removed from the game because Bioware can't even be bothered to give them some semblance of authenticity.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 17, 2019 3:05:59 GMT
Hell, this was a live topic back on the old NWN boards. The NWN toolset made it easy enough to move NPCs around -- it was actually part of the scripting documentation -- so people were complaining that the devs were too lazy to do this. The dev response was that mobile NPCs were a bad idea, and they had no intention of implementing them. IIRC the reason was that players found it annoying rather than immersive. Except that was about essential NPC's like shopkeeps and such.
All of the non essential NPC's in Fort Tarsis that are just going to stalls and such and have zero interaction with the player character should be doing something at least mildly convincing.
Like the people at food stalls should buy food, eat some, and then peace out ... the food stall could be empty for a bit then some new npc's come and get some food. Maybe the people near the trade stalls could actually buy stuff and mosey along. All they do right now is stand around and gesticulate in an inane manner for no reason. Better to just remove all non essential npc's than have them as they are. You're right. That's not really the same thing.
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Post by river82 on Feb 17, 2019 3:08:00 GMT
Nevermind that many players DID want the essential npc's to also have schedules but whatever. Lol, Bioware refuse to listen to anyone they don't want to listen to. And the people they want to listen to are just those that reaffirm their own opinions. It's part of the problem.
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 17, 2019 3:09:17 GMT
Nevermind that many players DID want the essential npc's to also have schedules but whatever. Lol, Bioware refuse to listen to anyone they don't want to listen to. And the people they want to listen to are just those that reaffirm their own opinions. It's part of the problem. At least the toolset let you have npc schedules in your own modules.
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 17, 2019 3:23:09 GMT
And yeah, sound bug. Annoying, but probably an easy fix. The fix for the lack of good content? Not so easy. Unless... the sound bug is the same issue they had in MEA. IIRC, the devs said the problem was in Frostbite, apparently super difficult to isolate and fix.
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Post by natetrace on Feb 17, 2019 3:29:08 GMT
So Anthem. I enjoyed Andromeda. It had it's issues, but it still had companions and fun combat and all that. Anthem's animations are improved. I think what I'm saying is both Anthem and Andromeda contain pieces of the past and what could have been.
I've been wondering what it would be like if it was more single player focused and Owen, Tassyn and Haluk and Yarric or yarrow or whatever were companions. You'd have more character creation options. Third person in fort tarsis, which does look great at night.
I'm enjoying Anthem, but it is making me yearn for ye olde days of BioWare.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 17, 2019 3:29:09 GMT
Just when you thought you were done with the "fetch quest as main quest" thing, it pops up again later on as "go do some other bullshit to enable you to do the main quest" I complained about this same bad design in ME and DA. It seems to be a BW thing. Force players to go do stuff because otherwise they might miss it. So much for player agency. Stuff like Free Play in Anthem should be good enough to have its own intrinsic attraction. If it doesn't and you have to force people to go experience it, maybe it should be cut?
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Feb 17, 2019 3:58:40 GMT
we will soon see how close to reality it is. After all one Bioware studio was killed already after being set up for failure and botching Andromeda. Aww man, it's been over since ME3 ending to be honest, it died officially when they shut the forum down. This game isn't for us it's for a market of online FPS players, Anthem isn't really a "Bioware game". It is foolish but a small part of me still holds hope that the next Dragon Age won't be a shit show, or that someday somehow they will take up Mass Effect in the milky way again, but lets be honest that's probably not likely. it never was a Bioware game, Bioware was only a mean to combat the WoW effect
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 4:07:42 GMT
<abbr> <snip> ... </abbr>other than that the only reason it loads in a mission is because you entered a cave or because your team mate is flying ahead of you and teleporting you. Tbh the latter really pisses me off, my first two missions ... had a guy that had obviously already done the mission as they were like a level 6 to our 2 and they were constantly flying off before the way point showed so the rest of the squad was way far behind and stopping to harvest plants and we all got teleported about 5 times in total. Super annoying experience.
Good examples for the reasons why I cannot enjoy MP play. Hoping I will enjoy SP-freeplay.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 4:29:42 GMT
Yeah, why it was the Premier or bust for me, as I'm enjoying this game taking my time and playing at my own pace. Thank you for making your comment; it's comments like yours speaking to the quality (or lack thereof) of the SP experience in Anthem that I am most interested in reading.
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Obadiah
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Obadiah on Feb 17, 2019 5:03:36 GMT
Yeah, the NPC idle animations are on the same level as Bethesda, 12 years after ME1 when it was fine. That's sad in 2019. Both companies seem to have acquired a learning disability. They are stagnating or even regressing in too many areas. At least in Bethesda's case they make huge organic open worlds. Running on that crippled old engine this basic level of idle animation is as far as it will go. And yet their NPCs actually move around. There is no excuse for Bioware. I have to assume that 80% of their very long development went into the flying mechanics. Everything else is sub par. They tried something new which is not a bad thing. But didn't actually deliver anything noteworthy. I haven't seen so many loading screens in a decade. Anthem really makes me want to try FO76 after all. *sob* The quest design can't be worse. And the shotgun sound is better than any gun in Anthem. I might even have bought it already in childish defiance if it was on Steam. Might buy it used on console to avoid the launcher... It's not like the promised private servers could save the game. But I honestly think I'd have more fun than with Anthem. The gameplay loop looks about equally mindless and underwhelming but at least FO76 lets you explore and read the damn notes in peace. Did you play Skyrim ? I think the loading is about the same as that. Every city on there loads as does every cave. On anthem, fort tarsis loads, and the caves load cos they're separate instances, other than that the only reason it loads in a mission is because you entered a cave or because your team mate is flying ahead of you and teleporting you. Tbh the latter really pisses me off, my first two missions (when I got to choose difficulty) on hard both had a guy that had obviously already done the mission as they were like a level 6 to our 2 and they were constantly flying off before the way point showed so the rest of the squad was way far behind and stopping to harvest plants and we all got teleported about 5 times in total. Super annoying experience. This is a standard problem with coop games with matchmaking (especially like Destiny) - there is always some clown racing the mission. I suspect players payed to level up characters, but I'm not sure that's still a thing. That's why I like strikes in Destiny 1 a bit more than 2 - the players still in 1 are most definitely NOT power-levelling, etc...
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Feb 17, 2019 5:56:12 GMT
Man after doing a couple dozen main and side quests, I just want to know from BioWare's dialogue writers and VO directors... Whatever fuckin happened to gravitas? Can't anyone take anything fucking seriously in your games anymore? It's always goddamn sarcasm this and quip that and banter this and pun that. Fuckin hell it's just so...exhausting. I hated that shit in Andromeda and it's just as bad if not worse in Anthem. They've abandoned the whole "soap opera" style writing in favor of "sticom" style writing. I don't hate it, but I don't see it as a positive.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Feb 17, 2019 6:15:27 GMT
I don't follow. How is refusing to make NPCs mobile a case of following others? Bio's refusing to make mobile NPCs even though other devs do, because they don't believe the feature is useful and never have. Remember, I was responding to Kappa Neko posting that Bio wasn't copying other devs enough. You are citing NWN ... and the devs were talking about quest givers and shopkeeps. They didn't want them to have schedules because players didn't want to wait until morning for the shop to open ... etc yadda yadda.
Nevermind that many players DID want the essential npc's to also have schedules but whatever.
The conversation at hand was the inanity of the current decorative npc's in Fort Tarsis and how all they do is gesticulate for no reason, don't do anything convincing, don't interact with the player character and basically should just be removed from the game because Bioware can't even be bothered to give them some semblance of authenticity.
Nah, I actually want shops to be open 24 hours a day (even in RL) so I can visit them whenever I want!
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Post by Blast Processor on Feb 17, 2019 6:36:28 GMT
98 pages... LOL.
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Post by river82 on Feb 17, 2019 7:32:39 GMT
So some are beginning to wonder whether no PVP will hurt Anthem in the short term. While some people don't like PVP, myself included actually, quite a few people are saying it's what gives these sorts of shooters their lasting appeal.
I wonder what Destiny's PVP is like.
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 17, 2019 7:47:40 GMT
Man after doing a couple dozen main and side quests, I just want to know from BioWare's dialogue writers and VO directors... Whatever fuckin happened to gravitas? Can't anyone take anything fucking seriously in your games anymore? It's always goddamn sarcasm this and quip that and banter this and pun that. Fuckin hell it's just so...exhausting. I hated that shit in Andromeda and it's just as bad if not worse in Anthem. They've abandoned the whole "soap opera" style writing in favor of "sticom" style writing. I don't hate it, but I don't see it as a positive. The MCU affect
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Post by ShadowAngel on Feb 17, 2019 8:01:43 GMT
So some are beginning to wonder whether no PVP will hurt Anthem in the short term. While some people don't like PVP, myself included actually, quite a few people are saying it's what gives these sorts of shooters their lasting appeal. I wonder what Destiny's PVP is like. PvP helps but it's not essential SO LONG as the pve can hold up. Destiny's pvp is outnumbered by pve players by about 100k (using destiny tracker as the source). That said the numbers are so close that you can't ditch one or the other as crucible is a part of destiny regardless if pve players despise it. destinytracker.com/As for other loot shooters I just don't see it, the divisions PvP was flat out broke on launch because of griefing (people could camp spawn ins for players) , Borderlands had other as a tacked on feature for the heck of it but 99% of it's players ignored it and Warframe doesn't play smooth enough to have a viable PvP audience although it gives the option nonetheless. I don't think anthem would feel all that great as a PvP game and you'd have to have some extreme weapon balancing done to compensate for the players movements IE weapon magnetism, upscaling hotboxes, most likely nerfing combos, etc etc which would honestly ruin it if you ask me as that's how a lot of games with a big focus on fast mobility tend to go.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Feb 17, 2019 10:58:50 GMT
I don't follow. How is refusing to make NPCs mobile a case of following others? Bio's refusing to make mobile NPCs even though other devs do, because they don't believe the feature is useful and never have. Remember, I was responding to Kappa Neko posting that Bio wasn't copying other devs enough. Mobile NPCs, or NPCs that are more detailed, are constantly quoted as one way to make living and breathing worlds. Open world games rely more strongly on strong worldbuilding or making living, breathing worlds. So the more open world games are the future it's only a matter of time before NPC schedules to be common place. Which means it's only a matter of time before Bioware implements it. After shunning it 10 years ago. DAI had some mobile NPC's. Strangely it weas quest NPC's that would move around during those non cutscene conversations, forcing you to move with them to avoid them moving out of range and ending the conversation.
It would have made more sense to have them stop while talking. It was a bizarre design that I hope they don't repeat. That said, it would make sense for them to roam and do stuff (ie not aimlessly) when not being talked to.
Of course, Biowares traditional approach is to cut something out entirely if there are complaints, rather than fixing or improving it.
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 17, 2019 12:35:08 GMT
So some are beginning to wonder whether no PVP will hurt Anthem in the short term. While some people don't like PVP, myself included actually, quite a few people are saying it's what gives these sorts of shooters their lasting appeal. I wonder what Destiny's PVP is like. PvP helps but it's not essential SO LONG as the pve can hold up. Destiny's pvp is outnumbered by pve players by about 100k (using destiny tracker as the source). That said the numbers are so close that you can't ditch one or the other as crucible is a part of destiny regardless if pve players despise it. destinytracker.com/As for other loot shooters I just don't see it, the divisions PvP was flat out broke on launch because of griefing (people could camp spawn ins for players) , Borderlands had other as a tacked on feature for the heck of it but 99% of it's players ignored it and Warframe doesn't play smooth enough to have a viable PvP audience although it gives the option nonetheless. I don't think anthem would feel all that great as a PvP game and you'd have to have some extreme weapon balancing done to compensate for the players movements IE weapon magnetism, upscaling hotboxes, most likely nerfing combos, etc etc which would honestly ruin it if you ask me as that's how a lot of games with a big focus on fast mobility tend to go. The issue is in Destiny, when I get tired of pve I can go do a round of pvp or vice versa, and it does a lot to mix things up and keep things feeling fresh. PvP in anthem is a bad idea, but the devs needed to recognize the function it serves in other looter shooters and put in something similar, perhaps a ME3-style horde mode. Their failure to do that puts enormous strain on the existing pve content and is another example of them not really understanding the genre they decided to enter.
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 17, 2019 13:56:06 GMT
So some are beginning to wonder whether no PVP will hurt Anthem in the short term. While some people don't like PVP, myself included actually, quite a few people are saying it's what gives these sorts of shooters their lasting appeal. I wonder what Destiny's PVP is like. It's like FPS PVP with multiple game modes but you get to bring your character and gear into the match to fight with others. Almost all modes normalize power level differences but every now and then you get some Iron Banner that allows for power level differences to have an impact on the balance of PVP. There is also a PVEVP mode where teams compete to summon a boss and then kill it while players from each side can have opportunities to invade the opposing team and disrupt them.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 17, 2019 15:11:02 GMT
lmao one of the three strongholds is just the last story mission on repeat. really taking a page out of Destiny's playbook in D2Y1, I see.
Welp I finished the main story 14 hours in. The story is just nothing. Nothing happens, you get a Macguffin that does nothing, your friends do things that lead to nothing, then it ends with nothing. Absolute rubbish.
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Post by saandrig on Feb 17, 2019 15:21:34 GMT
lmao one of the three strongholds is just the last story mission on repeat. really taking a page out of Destiny's playbook in D2Y1, I see. Welp I finished the main story 14 hours in. The story is just nothing. Nothing happens, you get a Macguffin that does nothing, your friends do things that lead to nothing, then it ends with nothing. Absolute rubbish. To be continued... (Message sponsored by Bioware. Disclaimer: Unless we pull MEA again)
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