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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 3:35:04 GMT
The only way this could work for an entire game would be for the protagonist to be restricted to elf-only, and we all saw how well the removal of multiple race selection went over in Dragon Age 2 . To have so much content reserved for just elves isn't fair to players who would want to explore those areas as humans, dwarves or qunari. Could you imagine trying to finish Origins if non elf Wardens were immediately shot upon entering the Brecilian Forests, or non dwarves were barred from Orzimmar, GW treaties be damned? Not mention elf players who would rather their characters not be xenophobic racists .
I have no idea what you're quoting, but I'm not advocating elven supremacy, or that the game be restricted to elves. I do think they deserve to have their own lands returned to them where they can live in peace and practice their culture(s). Solas' solution is not tenable, but neither is the long-term abuse and oppression of an entire people, who can be raped, enslaved, or killed at the whim of any human around without the human suffering repercussions. That is what I want to see stopped, and I don't see it happening in Thedas without some kind of massive upheaval or shift of power. As it stands, I'm at the burn it all down and start over stage with it all.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 4, 2018 3:55:32 GMT
The only way this could work for an entire game would be for the protagonist to be restricted to elf-only, and we all saw how well the removal of multiple race selection went over in Dragon Age 2 . To have so much content reserved for just elves isn't fair to players who would want to explore those areas as humans, dwarves or qunari. Could you imagine trying to finish Origins if non elf Wardens were immediately shot upon entering the Brecilian Forests, or non dwarves were barred from Orzimmar, GW treaties be damned? Not mention elf players who would rather their characters not be xenophobic racists .
I have no idea what you're quoting, but I'm not advocating elven supremacy, or that the game be restricted to elves. I do think they deserve to have their own lands returned to them where they can live in peace and practice their culture(s). Solas' solution is not tenable, but neither is the long-term abuse and oppression of an entire people, who can be raped, enslaved, or killed at the whim of any human around without the human suffering repercussions. That is what I want to see stopped, and I don't see it happening in Thedas without some kind of massive upheaval or shift of power. As it stands, I'm at the burn it all down and start over stage with it all. It didn't quote that particular paragraph, guess I minimized too much?
When you say:
Exactly inhospitable how? Legally restricted while there, killed on sight, or the physical and spiritual land active rejects non elves/spirits? How would such a nation be able to survive without any outside trade and defense allies? How would such isolationism and xenophobia not lead to more wars? How would having a culture that constantly nurses old hatreds not doom their children and future generations to lives of paranoia, fear, and misery? I'm all for exploring darker and negative outcomes, so long as you acknowledge that they are negative. You can't truly fight evil with more evil, after all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 5:10:13 GMT
I have no idea what you're quoting, but I'm not advocating elven supremacy, or that the game be restricted to elves. I do think they deserve to have their own lands returned to them where they can live in peace and practice their culture(s). Solas' solution is not tenable, but neither is the long-term abuse and oppression of an entire people, who can be raped, enslaved, or killed at the whim of any human around without the human suffering repercussions. That is what I want to see stopped, and I don't see it happening in Thedas without some kind of massive upheaval or shift of power. As it stands, I'm at the burn it all down and start over stage with it all. It didn't quote that particular paragraph, guess I minimized too much?
When you say:
Exactly inhospitable how? Legally restricted while there, killed on sight, or the physical and spiritual land active rejects non elves/spirits? How would such a nation be able to survive without any outside trade and defense allies? How would such isolationism and xenophobia not lead to more wars? How would having a culture that constantly nurses old hatreds not doom their children and future generations to lives of paranoia, fear, and misery? I'm all for exploring darker and negative outcomes, so long as you acknowledge that they are negative. You can't truly fight evil with more evil, after all. Inhospitable the way the paths between eluvians were to humans vs. elves in The Masked Empire: Excerpt from Chapter 14:
“What is this place?” she asked Felassan, who was rocking back and forth on his heels.
“You know, da’len, I honestly have no idea.” He leaned over and poked at the stones. “It’s not the Fade. The runes are elven … If I had to guess, I would say that our ancestors actually created some sort of tiny world between the eluvians.”
“Can that be done?”
“Apparently.” Felassan stepped off the path and reached down into the grass.
“The demon said not to do that.”
“The demon says a lot of things.” Felassan focused his gaze, and the gray grass around his hand filled with color, one lone spot of lush green in the strange dim meadow. “And this little world seems to like us.”
Briala was about to ask him to explain when Ser Michel stepped through the eluvian and onto the path.
“Maker’s breath!” he swore, shaking his head and stumbling. Briala reached out and grabbed one armored arm to steady him. A moment later, Celene came through as well. She stiffened, clutched her head, and dropped to one knee with a low cry.
“Felassan, what’s wrong?” It seemed worse for them than it had been for her. Celene shuddered, wincing, and used Briala for support as she slowly pulled herself up.
“I suspect that this land was made for the elves,” Felassan said as Michel stood up, stiff and awkward, wincing against the light. “Which they aren’t.”
“Majesty?” Michel asked. “Are you all right?”
Celene took a deep breath, shading her eyes against the light. “I will survive.” She looked at Briala thoughtfully. “Though it seems this is more comfortable for you, Bria.”
“So it seems.” Briala looked down at the brilliant runes. “It seems strange, but that is all. What about you, Michel?”
“It feels wrong.” Michel’s posture was stiff, and his hand twitched as though he wanted to draw his blade. “There’s a noise at the edge of hearing, and the light from those stones seems to twist when you look at it.” He shook his head. “I’d hate to have to fight in here.”
“And on that cheery thought, we should be off,” Felassan said. “If the humans are ready?”
Celene nodded, and they set off, with Felassan and Briala leading the way. The path stretched ahead of them, bright and unchanging, curving gently one way or the other, though it always felt as though they were walking straight ahead.
“It is amazing,” Briala said, matching her pace to Felassan’s. “I would never have thought to see such a display meant for our people.”
“It’s a bit hard to take in,” Felassan said, “especially when almost every elf you’ve ever seen is a servant in secondhand clothes or a peasant in the slums.” He shook his head. “We had an empire. It was … everything one thinks of when one hears such a word. Do you understand? Take the richest district of Val Royeaux. That was our people.”
Briala smiled to think of it. “It must have been beautiful, if they had the power to craft a world between the eluvians.”
“From what little survives among the Dalish, it was.” Felassan sighed. “Take the richest district of Val Royeaux, and add the magic that was part of our everyday life. Every statue fountain could speak through the water that poured from her mouth. Every column glowed with runes that the fools in Tevinter copied by rote like children tracing letters. When night fell, the roads were lit by stones like these, bright enough to find your way safely, but soft enough that you could still see the stars.”
“I can only imagine.”
“Can you?” Felassan looked over sharply. “Can you, truly? Then tell me, da’len, who scrubbed the floors?”
She blinked. “I … if the stone is enchanted, then … perhaps it cleans itself. Or if our people had golems, like the dwarves…”
“We were an empire,” Felassan said again, and this time she heard the anger in his voice. “It was not the Golden City. It was not the peaceful afterlife of this Maker the humans have made for themselves. Take the richest district of Val Royeaux, and tell me how many fools are scheming against each other at every ball? How many servants are flogged for improperly arranging the silverware?”
It's not that humans wouldn't be able to go to these places (actually I was kind of irked that non-elves didn't get a stamina penalty when in the in-between places in Trespasser where elves could see the world differently), just that they would find them draining and annoying to stay in for long. Whereas elves would find them energizing, because when they're naturally exposed to enough of the Fade they are stronger. Solas claims he stole their "selves" from them, while Felassan has to go into a sleep trance to enter the Fade and find his "true self" at one point. There's a whole aspect of being elven that is disrupted by the existence of the Veil. Creating "Fadeland" areas like Hrungr has suggested, would make regions where the elves are whole, and humans would have reason to want to avoid.
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Post by Blaze on Feb 4, 2018 8:11:45 GMT
YES! let them all BURN! muahahahahahHHaha!!!
also after the evenuris are freed, may fen'harel's plan to contain/destroy them fails as well!!! =D
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Post by jnericsonx on Feb 4, 2018 9:15:21 GMT
To paraphrase a scene from Posse: "If I might approach the bench your honor, I've never oppressed or enslaved anyone, so you all can kiss my human/dwarf/qunari ass."
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 4, 2018 16:44:17 GMT
It didn't quote that particular paragraph, guess I minimized too much?
When you say:
Exactly inhospitable how? Legally restricted while there, killed on sight, or the physical and spiritual land active rejects non elves/spirits? How would such a nation be able to survive without any outside trade and defense allies? How would such isolationism and xenophobia not lead to more wars? How would having a culture that constantly nurses old hatreds not doom their children and future generations to lives of paranoia, fear, and misery? I'm all for exploring darker and negative outcomes, so long as you acknowledge that they are negative. You can't truly fight evil with more evil, after all. Inhospitable the way the paths between eluvians were to humans vs. elves in The Masked Empire: Excerpt from Chapter 14:
“What is this place?” she asked Felassan, who was rocking back and forth on his heels.
“You know, da’len, I honestly have no idea.” He leaned over and poked at the stones. “It’s not the Fade. The runes are elven … If I had to guess, I would say that our ancestors actually created some sort of tiny world between the eluvians.”
“Can that be done?”
“Apparently.” Felassan stepped off the path and reached down into the grass.
“The demon said not to do that.”
“The demon says a lot of things.” Felassan focused his gaze, and the gray grass around his hand filled with color, one lone spot of lush green in the strange dim meadow. “And this little world seems to like us.”
Briala was about to ask him to explain when Ser Michel stepped through the eluvian and onto the path.
“Maker’s breath!” he swore, shaking his head and stumbling. Briala reached out and grabbed one armored arm to steady him. A moment later, Celene came through as well. She stiffened, clutched her head, and dropped to one knee with a low cry.
“Felassan, what’s wrong?” It seemed worse for them than it had been for her. Celene shuddered, wincing, and used Briala for support as she slowly pulled herself up.
“I suspect that this land was made for the elves,” Felassan said as Michel stood up, stiff and awkward, wincing against the light. “Which they aren’t.”
“Majesty?” Michel asked. “Are you all right?”
Celene took a deep breath, shading her eyes against the light. “I will survive.” She looked at Briala thoughtfully. “Though it seems this is more comfortable for you, Bria.”
“So it seems.” Briala looked down at the brilliant runes. “It seems strange, but that is all. What about you, Michel?”
“It feels wrong.” Michel’s posture was stiff, and his hand twitched as though he wanted to draw his blade. “There’s a noise at the edge of hearing, and the light from those stones seems to twist when you look at it.” He shook his head. “I’d hate to have to fight in here.”
“And on that cheery thought, we should be off,” Felassan said. “If the humans are ready?”
Celene nodded, and they set off, with Felassan and Briala leading the way. The path stretched ahead of them, bright and unchanging, curving gently one way or the other, though it always felt as though they were walking straight ahead.
“It is amazing,” Briala said, matching her pace to Felassan’s. “I would never have thought to see such a display meant for our people.”
“It’s a bit hard to take in,” Felassan said, “especially when almost every elf you’ve ever seen is a servant in secondhand clothes or a peasant in the slums.” He shook his head. “We had an empire. It was … everything one thinks of when one hears such a word. Do you understand? Take the richest district of Val Royeaux. That was our people.”
Briala smiled to think of it. “It must have been beautiful, if they had the power to craft a world between the eluvians.”
“From what little survives among the Dalish, it was.” Felassan sighed. “Take the richest district of Val Royeaux, and add the magic that was part of our everyday life. Every statue fountain could speak through the water that poured from her mouth. Every column glowed with runes that the fools in Tevinter copied by rote like children tracing letters. When night fell, the roads were lit by stones like these, bright enough to find your way safely, but soft enough that you could still see the stars.”
“I can only imagine.”
“Can you?” Felassan looked over sharply. “Can you, truly? Then tell me, da’len, who scrubbed the floors?”
She blinked. “I … if the stone is enchanted, then … perhaps it cleans itself. Or if our people had golems, like the dwarves…”
“We were an empire,” Felassan said again, and this time she heard the anger in his voice. “It was not the Golden City. It was not the peaceful afterlife of this Maker the humans have made for themselves. Take the richest district of Val Royeaux, and tell me how many fools are scheming against each other at every ball? How many servants are flogged for improperly arranging the silverware?”
It's not that humans wouldn't be able to go to these places (actually I was kind of irked that non-elves didn't get a stamina penalty when in the in-between places in Trespasser where elves could see the world differently), just that they would find them draining and annoying to stay in for long. Whereas elves would find them energizing, because when they're naturally exposed to enough of the Fade they are stronger. Chalk it up to Gameplay and Story Segregation ; by the time players get to Trespasser, they might not have any elves in the party if they're playing a non-elven Inquisitor and/or fired Sera. Sure it would be lore appropriate, but it be annoying to actually play/fight in those sections for most players. If you really want to talk in-game "realism", non qunari would face melee penalties when fighting qunari enemies due to the height and weight disparity, and dwarves would always own mages, among other things.
I have no problem exploring the story implications and moral dilemmas of "Fadelands" that reject non elves. But painting such areas as an absolute good seems to much like promoting segregation and racism, as in "stay with your own kind" .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 17:24:45 GMT
Inhospitable the way the paths between eluvians were to humans vs. elves in The Masked Empire: Excerpt from Chapter 14:
“What is this place?” she asked Felassan, who was rocking back and forth on his heels.
“You know, da’len, I honestly have no idea.” He leaned over and poked at the stones. “It’s not the Fade. The runes are elven … If I had to guess, I would say that our ancestors actually created some sort of tiny world between the eluvians.”
“Can that be done?”
“Apparently.” Felassan stepped off the path and reached down into the grass.
“The demon said not to do that.”
“The demon says a lot of things.” Felassan focused his gaze, and the gray grass around his hand filled with color, one lone spot of lush green in the strange dim meadow. “And this little world seems to like us.”
Briala was about to ask him to explain when Ser Michel stepped through the eluvian and onto the path.
“Maker’s breath!” he swore, shaking his head and stumbling. Briala reached out and grabbed one armored arm to steady him. A moment later, Celene came through as well. She stiffened, clutched her head, and dropped to one knee with a low cry.
“Felassan, what’s wrong?” It seemed worse for them than it had been for her. Celene shuddered, wincing, and used Briala for support as she slowly pulled herself up.
“I suspect that this land was made for the elves,” Felassan said as Michel stood up, stiff and awkward, wincing against the light. “Which they aren’t.”
“Majesty?” Michel asked. “Are you all right?”
Celene took a deep breath, shading her eyes against the light. “I will survive.” She looked at Briala thoughtfully. “Though it seems this is more comfortable for you, Bria.”
“So it seems.” Briala looked down at the brilliant runes. “It seems strange, but that is all. What about you, Michel?”
“It feels wrong.” Michel’s posture was stiff, and his hand twitched as though he wanted to draw his blade. “There’s a noise at the edge of hearing, and the light from those stones seems to twist when you look at it.” He shook his head. “I’d hate to have to fight in here.”
“And on that cheery thought, we should be off,” Felassan said. “If the humans are ready?”
Celene nodded, and they set off, with Felassan and Briala leading the way. The path stretched ahead of them, bright and unchanging, curving gently one way or the other, though it always felt as though they were walking straight ahead.
“It is amazing,” Briala said, matching her pace to Felassan’s. “I would never have thought to see such a display meant for our people.”
“It’s a bit hard to take in,” Felassan said, “especially when almost every elf you’ve ever seen is a servant in secondhand clothes or a peasant in the slums.” He shook his head. “We had an empire. It was … everything one thinks of when one hears such a word. Do you understand? Take the richest district of Val Royeaux. That was our people.”
Briala smiled to think of it. “It must have been beautiful, if they had the power to craft a world between the eluvians.”
“From what little survives among the Dalish, it was.” Felassan sighed. “Take the richest district of Val Royeaux, and add the magic that was part of our everyday life. Every statue fountain could speak through the water that poured from her mouth. Every column glowed with runes that the fools in Tevinter copied by rote like children tracing letters. When night fell, the roads were lit by stones like these, bright enough to find your way safely, but soft enough that you could still see the stars.”
“I can only imagine.”
“Can you?” Felassan looked over sharply. “Can you, truly? Then tell me, da’len, who scrubbed the floors?”
She blinked. “I … if the stone is enchanted, then … perhaps it cleans itself. Or if our people had golems, like the dwarves…”
“We were an empire,” Felassan said again, and this time she heard the anger in his voice. “It was not the Golden City. It was not the peaceful afterlife of this Maker the humans have made for themselves. Take the richest district of Val Royeaux, and tell me how many fools are scheming against each other at every ball? How many servants are flogged for improperly arranging the silverware?”
It's not that humans wouldn't be able to go to these places (actually I was kind of irked that non-elves didn't get a stamina penalty when in the in-between places in Trespasser where elves could see the world differently), just that they would find them draining and annoying to stay in for long. Whereas elves would find them energizing, because when they're naturally exposed to enough of the Fade they are stronger. Chalk it up to Gameplay and Story Segregation ; by the time players get to Trespasser, they might not have any elves in the party if they're playing a non-elven Inquisitor and/or fired Sera. Sure it would be lore appropriate, but it be annoying to actually play/fight in those sections for most players. If you really want to talk in-game "realism", non qunari would face melee penalties when fighting qunari enemies due to the height and weight disparity, and dwarves would always own mages, among other things.
I have no problem exploring the story implications and moral dilemmas of "Fadelands" that reject non elves. But painting such areas as an absolute good seems to much like promoting segregation and racism, as in " stay with your own kind" . They are already being forced to do that in the alienages, why shouldn't they be allowed to carve out their own place in the world and not have to be slaves like in Tevinter or subject to the Celenes and the Loghains and the Vaughns and Duke Antoines of Thedas? Like, you aren't going to get an elf like Sera to change who she is and I'm sure there are plenty of elves who are perfectly happy with the boot on their neck, but if an elf like Abelas wants to have a home where he feels like he belongs, he should have that right. Not every elf is an adventurer/murder hobo who gets to rewrite history like your PC can. The way you're making it sound to me is that the elves should be happy with what little they have, and gradually disappear from the world permanently as they're absorbed into humanity. Which, fine, there definitely won't be any anti-elf racism in Thedas, as the race will have ceased to exist as a separate entity. They literally have to segregate themselves or risk being bred out of existence. Maybe it's all relative, since all the races of Thedas will probably be overrun by the blight permanently once the archdemons are dead and there's nothing keeping the darkspawn underground. A completely integrated society is a death sentence to elven culture, and to elves as a people, however, as canonically there is no such thing as a half-elf. As for making their own homeland, the elves would have to pretty much either re-appropriate the crossroads/between worlds places and fix them up, or re-conquer their old lands for any of this to be feasible (I want to make it clear that I don't think they should be put on reservations or remain stuck in alienages), so I don't think any of it would be without a great deal of work and or blood and sweat, and possibly partial collapse of the Veil. So far, bootstrapping has gotten them nowhere but dead.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 4, 2018 17:49:45 GMT
I think if the Veil coming down gives us the game that was advertised with the first Morrigan related trailer in 2013, then I might be all for it. In that trailer we weren't shown a nice, neat hole in the sky but an enormous tear from one horizon to the other and it would seem a giant dragon (Evanuris?) emerging from it. It didn't result in instant annihilation for everyone but it was a dark and dangerous looking world.
Anyway, the downside of a sudden influx of magic might be that current mages simply get their minds blown. After all that is what happened to Rift Mages who weren't protected by the anchor and that wouldn't have been nearly as powerful an effect as removing the Veil altogether. Think what happens to tranquil when they are restored (re-connected to the Fade) and then multiply it.
Also, the Titans would be awakened across the earth, so that would result in a fair bit of destruction just of itself. So if they were going to go with such a scenario it should not avoid the downside to it happening and I rather like the idea of it only being partial, may be a shift in the Veil to encompass certain areas without it being removed altogether.
In the current world state not every mage is equal and some have negligible magical ability, so in a Veil-less world those distinctions would still be there and just as in the current world, those with lesser magical ability might be able to make up for it in other ways, which was probably just the same situation back in the old elven world.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 4, 2018 18:50:14 GMT
I was writing that under the frequently asserted assumption that No Veil = Complete Annihilation of sentient life, thus full cultural collapse and Game Over for Thedas as we know it. As many of us have discussed, there are a lot of ways that the destruction of the Veil could potentially change the in-game world, and I kind of want a do-over now that there's a more diverse group of worldbuilders at Bioware other than whatever David Gaider could scrape out of his campaign notes. You're not concerned that this would be Bioware history repeating itself? Burning down a franchise to hit the setting reset button didn't go over so well for the Mass Effect franchise.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Feb 4, 2018 19:05:33 GMT
Um, no.
I really don't see the Veil as that much a bad thing. Good spirits like to watch the mortal races from the Veil and only slightly interfere. So it's not as if their being screwed over by the Veil. It's only demons that would want the Veil to come down, since their rapey monsters that want to mindrape and vampirically drink the emotions of "real" people. Sure, Solas has a big speech about how awesome things would be if it was gone, and that have been the case back in his day, but things have changed and bringing down the Veil would likely doom the world.
But, hey, if you don't actually care about people's safety and sanity and just want a more "interesting" world than sure bringing down the Veil will be awesome. Just like a zombie apocalypse or an alien invasion would be awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 19:16:31 GMT
I was writing that under the frequently asserted assumption that No Veil = Complete Annihilation of sentient life, thus full cultural collapse and Game Over for Thedas as we know it. As many of us have discussed, there are a lot of ways that the destruction of the Veil could potentially change the in-game world, and I kind of want a do-over now that there's a more diverse group of worldbuilders at Bioware other than whatever David Gaider could scrape out of his campaign notes. You're not concerned that this would be Bioware history repeating itself? Burning down a franchise to hit the setting reset button didn't go over so well for the Mass Effect franchise. That's true. I guess there's no chance they'll have learned anything from their mistakes. Though at this rate I'm skeptical there will be a game at all.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 4, 2018 19:17:44 GMT
if the veil comes down can i volunteer to spend eternity with the titans
bet they're pretty pissed at mythal
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Post by boxofscreaming on Feb 4, 2018 19:31:16 GMT
Solas is just an elf. No way he's got the power to bring down the veil. Even if he did, I imagine the Maker would prevent it.
He claims to have created the veil of course, but he's hardly a credible source, is he?
Also, bringing down the veil wouldn't make everyone mages, it'd just kill them.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 4, 2018 19:37:58 GMT
Solas is just an elf. No way he's got the power to bring down the veil. Even if he did, I imagine the Maker would prevent it. He was just an elf when he made the Veil, and the Maker didn't stop him. That's a distinct possibility. Or it might make everyone mages. Or it might supercharge mages and turn whoever's left into glowing green hamburger meat. Or it might turn all elves into super-charged mages and everyone else into glowing green hamburger meat. Or it might supercharge all elven mages and turn whoever's left into glowing green hamburger meat.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 4, 2018 19:44:23 GMT
Okay but what if we all convert to Avvarism and ask the Lady of the Skies to please not open up and rain destruction down upon our fragile mortal souls. She's probably older than Solas. Riiiight That's a distinct possibility. Or it might make everyone mages. Or it might supercharge mages and turn whoever's left into glowing green hamburger meat. Or it might turn all elves into super-charged mages and everyone else into glowing green hamburger meat. Or it might supercharge all elven mages and turn whoever's left into glowing green hamburger meat. Either way, somebody's gonna be glowing green hamburger meat.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 4, 2018 20:29:46 GMT
That's analogous to saying that Hitler Oppenheimer was just a man. EDIT: I thought of a better analogy, although not perfect by any means.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 4, 2018 21:21:24 GMT
Solas is just an elf. No way he's got the power to bring down the veil. Even if he did, I imagine the Maker would prevent it. He claims to have created the veil of course, but he's hardly a credible source, is he? Also, bringing down the veil wouldn't make everyone mages, it'd just kill them. If he created the Veil, he's the Maker.
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Post by warden on Feb 4, 2018 22:14:18 GMT
I just want this Solas boring story to end, that's all.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Feb 4, 2018 22:27:04 GMT
Solas is just an elf. No way he's got the power to bring down the veil. Even if he did, I imagine the Maker would prevent it. He claims to have created the veil of course, but he's hardly a credible source, is he? Also, bringing down the veil wouldn't make everyone mages, it'd just kill them. If he created the Veil, he's the Maker. Nah. Solas is way to racist to marry a human woman.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 4, 2018 22:33:19 GMT
If he created the Veil, he's the Maker. Nah. Solas is way to racist to marry a human woman. So: the Chantry lied? The cake is a lie!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 22:49:42 GMT
BUT! BUT! BUT! Ferelden getting erased from history = no more Mabari. Will somebody think of the puppies!
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 5, 2018 14:43:41 GMT
This would hardly be news. We already know the Chantry's version of the history of Andraste is completely different to the reality (apart from the being burnt to a crisp) so I have grave doubts that much of what is in the Chant was actually taught by Andraste at all. It is Drakon/Justinia I's version of events. Which brings me to a reason why I don't want the Veil to be removed, because it will make it look like Drakon's "vision" was true. Mind you, if that were the case he could only have got that from Solas rather than the Maker as well. Do you suppose if Solas did bring down the Veil Giselle would finally have to admit that the Chantry got the history of the world completely and utterly wrong?
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Post by arvaarad on Feb 5, 2018 15:28:42 GMT
If he created the Veil, he's the Maker. Nah. Solas is way to racist to marry a human woman. Over time, mythologies do tend to create composite characters. For example, a lot of Christian traditions collapse what was probably several “Mary”s into a single character. Everything related to being Jesus’ mother is Mary mother of Jesus, while every other Mary is read as Mary Magdalene, rather than some third or fourth additional Mary (the name “Mary” was basically the “Chris” of that time). They also tend to attribute books of the Bible to a small handful of authors rather than adding more minor characters to keep track of. For example, there’s a stretch of books in the OT that are all assumed to be written by Solomon, even though some/all were likely written by random folks that aren’t as famous. I think the most plausible story is that Solas inspired some portion of the Maker character, but that the Maker is a composite of several people.
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Feb 5, 2018 16:53:28 GMT
I voted "No," but I wouldn't mind a close-to-success scenario, or contained "Fadelands" areas as suggested by others.
I would actually like to play a protagonist that sides with Solas, then becomes a boss enemy npc that has to be defeated before Solas can be confronted by our Dragon Age 5 protagonist.
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Post by Sah291 on Feb 5, 2018 17:48:22 GMT
If he created the Veil, he's the Maker. Nah. Solas is way to racist to marry a human woman. I don't think he's the Maker, but it seems pretty clear his actions and the myths about him had a hand in shaping Andrastian lore... whether that was intentional or not. Kind of reminds me the way Loki is sometimes read as an early Christian anti hero, for his role in criticising and opposing the old gods. Anyway I don't think he created the Veil with his own power alone. I wouldn't be surprised if he stole from, tricked, or had help from a Titan, or several of them. The Dalish myth about him trapping the Creators and Forgotten Ones, has him playing both groups against each other, maybe there's a grain of truth in how he created the Veil. Without his orb, Solas doesn't seem to have much personal power of his own. This would hardly be news. We already know the Chantry's version of the history of Andraste is completely different to the reality (apart from the being burnt to a crisp) so I have grave doubts that much of what is in the Chant was actually taught by Andraste at all. It is Drakon/Justinia I's version of events. Which brings me to a reason why I don't want the Veil to be removed, because it will make it look like Drakon's "vision" was true. Mind you, if that were the case he could only have got that from Solas rather than the Maker as well. Do you suppose if Solas did bring down the Veil Giselle would finally have to admit that the Chantry got the history of the world completely and utterly wrong? I think she would. I mean, if you play as elven Inquisitor, she's already suggesting ideas like maybe the elven gods were aspects of the Maker. It's not a huge leap from there to say, the Maker was working through Solas, or was guiding him.
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