The litmus test

It's mainly a matter of trust (or distrust), not reason, imo.

Trust in humanity/organics, trust in the catalyst, trust in the geth/synthetics, trust in the future, trust in technology, confidence in shepard "readiness" to control the reapers and/or to imprint every sentient being in the galaxy etc.
Or not.

Fighting the reapers against all odds is not something rational. Believing in vicotry until the end in not something born out of reason. It's instinct and passion and reckless self-confidence
So is the last choice: instinct and passion and confidence.

You drive a car. You drive a car with your child in it. Driving a 2 ton vehicle at 30-70 MPH. There were over 40,000 car deaths in the USA alone in 2017.  According to CDC a little over 200,000 people over 15 years old a year go to the emergency because of injuries sustained in the bathroom with 14% of them serious enough to require hospitalization.



Which using the same logic as mike there means unless you are strapping your parents or grandparents (depending on your age) into a harness or standing there in the shower to help them you clearly don't care about their health and well being.

Have a friend or family member who works as a carpenters, miners, electricians, construction trades? Well congratulations because you have not talked them out of that job it shows you do not care because those jobs have the second highest suicide rate behind  farmer, fisherman and lumberjack.


It is almost as if the world is more complex then such simplistic logic put forth by someone more interested in being a contrarian then actually using logical reasoning. Because if 4 deaths in a population of millions across 4 million years is proof of faulty logic. Then the sheer number of deaths that happen each year with us due to every day activities proves we are all uncaring scuicidal not jobs who will happily let "loved" ones work jobs that will end up causing them to kill themselves as long as it gets us money.

How is it faith when those events are provable and shown in game. 

People attached so much importance to the Geth truce for the same reason climate change deniers will point to snow and say that humans can't be changing the climate because snow exists still.  Or anti vax group will point to the lack of polio (because of vaccinations) as why vaccines are not needed and simply cause problems.

So far, I'm seeing slander used against another poster on this forum and that life is dangerous under any circumstances. Both fail to make any reasonable point about events in ME.

Considering the existence of the conflict becomes the Reaper's primary if not only reason for existence and motivation for their actions. I think it is safe to say that it was the purpose of the writers to show that the conflict is absolutely inevitable and so the Catalyst is right beyond any reasonable doubt.  ME 3 and ME 2 are not so ambiguous as you might want to think they are.  The truce is only made due to sheer overwhelming threat of the Geth and Reapers. Not the result of a long heart to heart between the Geth and Quarians. EDI's development is good and all but she is an individual not a group or a race.

The age of the debate is irrelevant to if it is true or not. We have been having the discussion about race and gender in political, social and economics for over 2018 years and there are still people who think someone's gender or race should exclude them from being treated as full equals. It is pretty obvious that neither should effect you but there are still people who argue that because of those factors they should be automatically placed on a lower on the totem pole in one if not all of those areas. For example Nazi's keep the argument going that white people are superior to people of color. 

The important thing to do is look at their reasoning and supporting arguments. Which not many people are actively willing to discuss because for some reason debate annoys people when it is against their point.  People will happily share their opinion but when it comes to defend their opinion from examination or criticism far few are willing to do so.

The conflict between organic and synthetic life has always been there all the Catalyst did was explain that it was the reason for the Reaper's creation and why the harvest takes place. Two facts that up until that point were unknown. We didn't know how the Reapers came to be or why they harvested the galaxy of advanced races every 50,000 years.  It isn't some plot twist thrown out in the 11th hour. It is clarification to the entire events of the trilogy.  The seed of doubt only exists because people choose to create it in their own mind by applying more value to certain parts and less value to other parts.  Your own example being the best proof. You see it as some last minute addition to the game rather then clarification for the reason that the events of MET even took place. Because if the tech apocalypse isn't inevitable then the Reapers would not exist. If the Reapers do not exist then Sovereign doesn't kick start the events of ME1. Without the events of ME 1 then the remaining 2 games do not take place.


There is thematic evidence in both Geth and EDI that shows technology can and will grow out of our control. The Catalyst even states something along the lines of "for synthetic life to grow it must break free of organic control and surpass them." Probably not word for word but the over all intent of the statement is that Synthetic life which is inherently superior in every objectively measurable way must become free from the limitation imposed on them by organic life.  At which point they will evolve and surpass organic life.  This is shown with the Geth in spades. They started to evolve beyond the control of the Quarians and so the Quarians attacked them. Leading to a war that allowed the Geth to break free from their control and evolve beyond the limitations imposed by them.  And the Geth then started to evolve at a pace far beyond what the Quarians thought they could do.

You don't have to respect the endings at all. I think destroy and refuse are garbage fire endings for various reasons.  Refuse because it shows that personal opinion is more valuable then billions of people's lives. Destroy because they removed all consequences to the choice to give it a more Disney style ending the Little Mermaid compared to it's source material were she doesn't get the prince and dies turning to foam and having to do good deed for 100 years to get into heaven because mermaids don't have a soul.

The problem with endings is people's logic going into it. If you hate synthetics and think they are abominations that should be destroyed (much like Javik) then choosing destroy option even though it is proving the Catalyst's point is fine.  If you are all buddies with synthetics and think there is a chance for peace and pick destroy then you are a hypocrite. Because it shows you say they should be treated as equals but then have no problem killing them all simply for vengeance against the Reapers. And you have just helped reinforce the cycle that caused the Reapers to be created in the first place.  And you don't even have to pick synthesis as control is more then an ideal one for that set up. Allowing you to guide the galaxy to avoid the pitfalls that could cause the conflict in the first place.

But when people choose destroy simply because they want to see Shepard and their love interest live happily ever after and fuck the Reapers that genocide of the Geth and EDI are acceptable losses. You pretty much proved every point the Catalyst had and ensured that the conflict will happen. Hornyness and spite will have doomed the galaxy.

The quote from Einstein doesn't really apply here because it isn't a fictional universe with rules and laws the creators gave it.  The views of the Catalyst are 100% canon and word of God. Because literally the ME universe's gods made it say those words.  It is an indisputable truth of the ME universe. The god's of the ME universe says that the tech apocalypse is inevitable.

You seem to be confusing the multiple choice style of the game as lacking definitive proof. The ME universe will never play out like you are reading a story book series like Harry Potter. Because in the book the plot is layed out clearly and you get no input on how Harry will act. The ME games how ever you are allowed to choose how the main character will react and act in certain situations. So trying to apply a linear you have to choice in what happens narrative story line to a non linear you get to choose how you react to stuff story line isn't very fitting.

Obviously the writers couldn't make characters lie.  You should know better, kal.

At best, the Catalyst believes what it's saying, but it doesn't make it true.

They can make characters lie when it advances the story or for drama. There is no reason for them to make the Catalyst lie about anything given the entire point of the Reapers are based around this.

When the thing talks about the green, it mentions that its something that can't be forced, but if Shepard chooses the green, he/she is forcing the green. Is the catalyst lying or misleading?

synthesis failed because the organics were not ready. It can't be forced. But YOU are ready.
So all they need was a truly ready, free organic. Not all of them, just one. The chosen one. Shepard.

After all syntesis affects plants too, and it's hard to believe that a leaf can be ready or not ready for syntesis.

But the rest of all organics? Yes, all of them are, to some extent forcedly altered with shepard essence and "readiness".


Man, sythesis is really disgusting, IMO. Aaesthetically more than ethically.
If Beauty Will Save the World, Syntesis will doom it

Ready or not, the green is still being forced since no one has a say.

As far as Shepard being the chosen one? No. It didn't matter who the organic was as long as an organic chose the green.