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Post by warden on Feb 15, 2018 16:37:30 GMT
I made this thread because I was reading posts in the thread "What did you do today in another game out there" and got in the most recent ones (posts)
and stumbled with this hilarious one that got me completely in plan lol and I couldn't get pass that, it's like my mind just blocked and couldn't find any explanation or anything really, but made me eager to make this thread and get information.
The post is this one: "Watching the Start of MHW on youtube...silent protagonist in 2018 O-O with really awkward silences too, as 3 different characters talk to you. japanese influence really clear. ah well, bedtime."
made by the user Phoray.
My sensation that this post transmitted to me, was a mix of mocking, sarcasm, what the hell is this shit guys wake up we are not in 1960, and arrogance, with some air of superiority.
Anyway that's not important, the important thing is the question i made. (All of the above it's just me sharing something to don't leave all to a single empty question)
What you think about the Silent Protagonist feature in RPG games?
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Post by Elfen Lied on Feb 15, 2018 16:54:55 GMT
Depends on the kind of game, at least for me.
When I play a game where I must use a preset character (i.e. Alpha Protocol, The Witcher) I prefer to have a voiced protagonist
With games that let you customize your character I usually prefer silent protagonist, with some small exceptions, i.e. ME games, probably because as far as you can change his/her physical aspect you are still playing "Shepard". In that case I am fine with voiced character.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 15, 2018 16:57:03 GMT
Well I suppose it all comes down to how one uses the protagonist (silent or not) and how well written the dialogue is. I won't say that one is necessarily better than the other, at least in terms of how each can draw you into a setting.
I will say, however, that a silent protagonist focussed game has the advantage of not having 50%+ of it's word budget (especially if said protagonist can be either gender) devoted to just hearing your main character respond to what's being said. Again, the quality of the writing is a major determining factor in how much mileage one can get out of a word budget but everything else being equal, I'd much rather have fleshed out world building and reactive responses to player choices than just hearing six different variations of our hero saying "Yes" or "No".
As for the game that spawned this topic: Monster Hunter World, I'm not a huge fan of that franchise. Too much anime/manga influence for my liking personally.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 15, 2018 16:58:40 GMT
I'm spoiled rotten at this point, thanks to Mass Effect, later DA games and some others. For the most part, a silent protagonist can be a bit of a deterrent, because I don't particularly care for the contrast between audible NPC lines and text responses. I love Dragon Age: Origins immensely, but that's in spite of that feature.
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Post by copper on Feb 15, 2018 17:04:37 GMT
I guess it depends on how well it's done. But in general I think I prefer unvoiced protagonists, not necessarily because of immersion even though that can be a factor, but because that frees up resources to be used for other things in the game. That said, the more advanced graphics become, the more out of place an unvoiced protagonist will look. I think the inquisitor being unvoiced would have been awkward looking on the Frostbite engine, for example. Games that are played mostly in first person, like the Elder Scrolls, should keep unvoiced protagonists though.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 15, 2018 17:13:07 GMT
I guess it depends on how well it's done. But in general I think I prefer unvoiced protagonists, not necessarily because of immersion even though that can be a factor, but because that frees up resources to be used for other things in the game. That said, the more advanced graphics become, the more out of place an unvoiced protagonist will look. I think the inquisitor being unvoiced would have been awkward looking on the Frostbite engine, for example. Agreed. Though I tend to roll my eyes at how "graphically realistic" focused the game industry has become. I don't really care about how many individual hairs you can count on your protagonist's head out of a reflection on a pool of simulated, 'life-like' water, I just want to play a game that is fun to play. Gameplay & Story >>>>>>>> Graphics IMHO. Off topic:Its really interesting when you can look back at older consoles like the Nintendo 64 and see how much use they got out of such limited processing power in terms of gameplay mechanics and features, that our current generation of consoles can't even come close to replicating. N64: "Wanna play a four player split-screen deathmatch of GoldenEye with bots and rocket launchers for everyone?"... "Sure, go right ahead." Xbox One/PS4: "Wanna play a four player split-screen deathmatch of Call of Duty with bots and rocket launchers for everyone?"… "No, screw you. Buy four versions of our game for four separate consoles if you want to do something like that."
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Post by phoray on Feb 15, 2018 17:34:04 GMT
Watching the Start of MHW on youtube...silent protagonist in 2018 O-O with really awkward silences too, as 3 different characters talk to you. japanese influence really clear. ah well, bedtime."made by the user Phoray. My sensation that this post transmitted to me, was a mix of mocking, sarcasm, what the hell is this shit guys wake up we are not in 1960, and arrogance, with some air of superiority. Okay, since the post is literally quoting me, I will clarify the half-ass-thought-blurb I posted last night literally before rolling over and going to sleep. I don't care about silent protaganist IF you get to pick a dialogue option for your character. IE DA Origins and Vampire Masquerade Bloodlines What makes me care about Monster Hunter World using a silent protaganist is they very very awkwardly made it obvious that your character is a Mute Hunter incapable of speech. Other characters would ask open ended questions, and then in an attempt to cover up that they didn't even bother giving your character 3 lines of dialogue, they would make something distracting happen in the background so it'd seem teh reason your PC wasn't answering was because the conversation was interrupted. I found it absurd. Most people can handle a conversation while observing other people doing things (look at any sports event.) I just find it odd that, in 2018, where fixed voiced protags abound, and unfixed protags have some spotlight, they would spend any time and money on this super awkward scene. They should have had the NPCs ask Yes/No questions so PC could at least nod or nay instead of stare awkwardly at them. They should have had one female voice, and one male voice, for ANY cutscene where NPCs talk to PC. Then left them mute the rest of the time. Considering this game is not even a STORY game, I have the belief that it would have literally been just for the introduction that they needed 3 lines of voice acting at all. Considering its a Japan/America game, 4 voice actors, two languages, both genders. It would not have bankrupt them at all. So this is a bit of a judgement. You shouldn't point out how mute your PC is in the first five minutes or you should just script them some damn lines already. I also wasn't blaming the Silent Protag choice on Japan. I personally watch a lot of Asian Romance dramas with subtitles in their native languages. And there is a body movement, head mannerism of the Red Mohawk dude that I've seen these asian country actors make a million times. That was amusing to me, I had never thought they would carry that mannerism into a video game. Additionally, these cheery sparkley high pitched female voices that I could easily see hearing "Let's go get ice cream senpai!" also seem to be an asian thing in Anime. And a crap ton of anime comes from Japan. And that's all I meant by "japanese influence." It was an observation, not a judgement. I hope that clears up the implied "superiority" and "arrogance" of the post I made bleary eyed before bed.
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Post by CHRrOME on Feb 15, 2018 17:43:10 GMT
I'll jump the "it depends boat" too. I remember the very first RPG game I ever played, was Dragon Age Origins. I was expanding my horizons a little bit (I only used to play shooters and strategy games) and in that game I felt weird with my character not talking. Later on I understood that perhaps it was due to quite some variations in dialogue and different races that perhaps at the moment, it wasn't in the budget to add more voice actors for all those lines and different races, or something on those lines.
Now, in Fallout 3 it was quite clear that you were supposed to read them yourself and use whichever tone you think it fitted, add you own sarcasm to the lines. With a voiced protag you're bound to hear the lines only in the one way, the way the actor/actress speaks. Especially in FO4 that is an issue. The other issue is obviously, more lines, more recording, more budget used exclusively to that. Which closes the doors for perhaps more diverse dialogue lines, or even fleshing out better other aspects of the game. On the other hand, if it's a more linear RPG, in which you are not supposed to control the character in that regard, because they have a predefined way of thinking or acting, then yeah, sure voiced works pretty well.
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simit
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by simit on Feb 15, 2018 17:48:08 GMT
There argument for an against tbh, i personally like voiced pc but in my mind there is no doubt it does limit rp but a voiced pc can tell a good story an i can still rp them abit, ultimately im fine with both but lean to voiced if game story heavy i guess
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Post by Kappa Neko on Feb 15, 2018 17:52:42 GMT
I much prefer voiced protagonists because I like my games as cinematic and emotional as possible. It's weird for me when everyone but the protagonist is voiced. When there's no voice acting it's fine. But then it's still really awkward in 2018. A game without voice acting or a silent protagonist will make me reconsider nowadays. I've grown lazy, I admit. I don't like reading a ton of dialogue anymore. I do this all day at work.
I don't mind silent protagonists in Bethesda games. I was excited when it was announced that FO4 would have a voiced protagonist and the male one I've played has done a great job bringing this character to life for me. I'm very fond of my douchebag sole survivor. HOWEVER, in retrospect the voiced protagonist is linked to one major problem the game has: fixed background AND pretty much a fixed personality due to the way the lines are delivered. And I cannot help thinking part of the reason the games has fewer quests and so many of them SHIT quests has to do with the quality voice acting eating up a substantial chunk of the budget. That and much improved combat and animations. I'd rather have New Vegas level of writing and true roleplaying freedom than a voiced protagonist in this type of game.
But overall, I'm a sucker for good voice acting. I'd like to say quality writing matters more to me than a voiced protagonist and pretty graphics because it absolutely should, but sadly it doesn't. Ideally I'd like both like in HZD or Bioware games, I like my eye and ear candy...
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Post by griffith82 on Feb 15, 2018 18:10:11 GMT
I much prefer voiced protagonists because I like my games as cinematic and emotional as possible. It's weird for me when everyone but the protagonist is voiced. When there's no voice acting it's fine. But then it's still really awkward in 2018. A game without voice acting or a silent protagonist will make me reconsider nowadays. I've grown lazy, I admit. I don't like reading a ton of dialogue anymore. I do this all day at work. I don't mind silent protagonists in Bethesda games. I was excited when it was announced that FO4 would have a voiced protagonist and the male one I've played has done a great job bringing this character to life for me. I'm very fond of my douchebag sole survivor. HOWEVER, in retrospect the voiced protagonist is linked to one major problem the game has: fixed background AND pretty much a fixed personality due to the way the lines are delivered. And I cannot help thinking part of the reason the games has fewer quests and so many of them SHIT quests has to do with the quality voice acting eating up a substantial chunk of the budget. That and much improved combat and animations. I'd rather have New Vegas level of writing and true roleplaying freedom than a voiced protagonist in this type of game. But overall, I'm a sucker for good voice acting. I'd like to say quality writing matters more to me than a voiced protagonist and pretty graphics because it absolutely should, but sadly it doesn't. Ideally I'd like both like in HZD or Bioware games, I like my eye and ear candy... I was going to mention FO4. Good game and I enjoyed the VA but some of the quests weren’t as good as FO3 or NV. However the sudden jump to a voiced protagonist can be jarring at first. Dead Space is a great example. First game you were silent, then bam you have a voice in 2. Same character now with a voice. I much preferred that however I had to do a double take and make sure it was the same character.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 15, 2018 18:49:46 GMT
I don't like them.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Feb 15, 2018 18:55:47 GMT
I was going to mention FO4. Good game and I enjoyed the VA but some of the quests weren’t as good as FO3 or NV. However the sudden jump to a voiced protagonist can be jarring at first. Dead Space is a great example. First game you were silent, then bam you have a voice in 2. Same character now with a voice. I much preferred that however I had to do a double take and make sure it was the same character. I never played Dead Space but that does sound awkward... Switching voice actors between franchise games is equally jarring. The German version of ME2 had a different male VA than ME1 for reasons I dunno. I thought the second one was better (even though I played the game in English and only saw snippets on YT) so I guess it ws a good move? As has been been stated by others, there are pros and cons to each approach. Some games work better with voiced protagonists, others with a silent one.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 15, 2018 18:57:26 GMT
In general, I like voiced protagonists, like Shepard, Hawke or the Inquisitor because I am sucker for the "cinematic experience",
That said, there are awesome games with silent protagonists. Prime example is Dragon Age: Origins. There, you can see the advantages because you just get more dialogue options.
So yea, I can work with silent ones if the gmae around it is great but I like the voiced ones better.
I can't be bothered to have no voice over whatsoever anymore though. There is so much nuance and character in VOs that IMO NPCs do gain a lot of "life" from a decent VA.
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CrazyRah
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Post by CrazyRah on Feb 15, 2018 18:57:54 GMT
Entierly dependant on the game. Some games it just comes off as so awkward where as in other I find it appropriate and where a voice would detract from the experience
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 15, 2018 19:06:23 GMT
I don't connect as well with silent protagonists. I don't. For me, they have no personality beyond grunts and screams. It's really jarring now to play DAO and see the Warden staring blankly at everyone while communicating via telepathy and farts.
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Ricimer
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Post by Ricimer on Feb 15, 2018 19:45:57 GMT
I prefer fully voiced games. I do find the silence in DA:O slightly unsettling now. Some of my favourite games have certainly been enriched by having a voiced protagonist (imo of course). Metal Gear Solid - David Hayter is Snake for me, didn't enjoy MGSV, but loved the rest. Mass Effect - Mark Meer is my preferred choice. Fallout 4 - Love Courtenay Taylor in everything. Hated FO3, FNV was ok, but I've had a lot of fun with 4! Horizon Zero Dawn - Only played it recently, but it's also excellent with Ashly Burch I've also enjoyed Andromeda a lot more than I would have done without Fryda Wolff. F Ryder is a lot of fun. It's not that I won't play silent protagonist games (still played a lot of Skyrim) but after watching some MHW, I can't say I wasn't a bit put off by the lack of voice acting. Oh, mustn't forget Alix Wilton Regan as the inquisitor! I always play with subtitles disabled
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Post by phoray on Feb 15, 2018 20:02:59 GMT
Additionally, these cheery sparkley high pitched female voices that I could easily see hearing "Let's go get ice cream senpai!" yes, haha, exactly. To anime preferences for voice actors get moved into Monster Hunter World was like... aren't we supposed to be hardcore monster hunting badasses? even Mohawk dude sounded barely 20
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 15, 2018 21:41:30 GMT
I thought silent protagonists were mostly over, yet I hear Far Cry 5 will have one. (shrug) ...
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 15, 2018 21:57:14 GMT
A thing of the past, but that doesn't mean it can be done well in the present...
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Feb 15, 2018 22:23:54 GMT
I prefer voiced protagonists in cinematic games where every other character is fully voiced (e.g. Dragon Age and Mass Effect) and silent protagonists in isometric games that aren't fully voiced. The player character can still have barks, like they've had since at least Baldur's Gate, but I don't need them to say their lines. In fact, I think it's a wast of money to fully voice an isometric cRPG. Just voice the first line or two of each conversation to give some flavour and then let me read the rest of the dialogue. (I know some people are really into the full voicing in DOS2, but not me.)
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Post by luketrevelyan on Feb 15, 2018 22:24:20 GMT
I generally prefer silent protagonists because it gives more flexibility to define your character. It can be really jarring and off-putting when your character's voice doesn't fit the body or personality you are going for. Silent also allows for a lot more replaybility. Plus I imagine it is a lot easier and cheaper for the writers to add more lines/options/content.
Voiced protagonists are great when they fit your character. But even then you get stuck with the same voice on subsequent PTs. DAI was great in that regard because we had 2 voice options per gender (although I wonder at what cost?).
Just thinking about some of my favorite RPG series and whether voiced worked or not. Generally it seems like games that offer you the most freedom for character creation and decision making are better off being silent, while games with more defined characters can benefit from being voiced.
Mass Effect Trilogy I think for more cinematic games like the Mass Effect series with a set character over a trilogy (although appearance could be adjusted), the voiced protagonist worked pretty well. I never had many complaints despite multiple PTs.
Dragon Age Origins The silent protagonist worked especially well here because there were 3 race options and several different origin stories. It was a game just asking to be replayed to death, so a voice would've hampered that a lot. To this date it is still the game I've felt most connected to my character.
Dragon Age 2 There were many jarring things transitioning from DAO to DA2 and the switch to voiced protagonist was one of them. I think it worked best when playing sarcastic Hawke with a certain appearance. Otherwise I had trouble ever getting into my character.
Dragon Age Inquisition This game featured the return of race options, even expanding to 4 with Qunari. Having 1 voice fit all 4 races would've been too limiting. Fortunately we got an American and British voice for both male and female, so I ended up quite satisfied. It was fun to replay with the different voices to get a unique experience, although the game didn't always highlight the actor's talent.
Elder Scrolls These games offer so much freedom for your character combined with a wide variety of race and appearance that a silent protagonist is pretty much a necessity. I don't think voiced would work well at all.
Fallout 4 Unlike the previous installments, they decided to make your character voiced. I thought it was a mistake for an open world game that lets you play all sorts of different characters. You don't have the race options like Elder Scrolls, but it still felt out of place. Not to mention the dialogue options were horrendous, no doubt linked to the cost of a voiced protagonist.
SWTOR This seems like it would have been a no-brainer to be silent, but BioWare went with a different voice for each class. Overall I thought it actually worked out ok.
The Witcher series These make sense to be voiced given you are playing a clearly defined character. Generally if you don't have a CC then voiced is ok (although I always prefer RPGs with CCs).
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Post by Hawke on Feb 15, 2018 23:15:37 GMT
I prefer silent protagonists with HP-/stamina-level-indicating battle cries and dialogue options in text. Dark Souls III has it, as well as Dragon's Dogma, Dragon Age: Origins, Hyperlight Drifter, Pillars of Eternity and Shadowrun. I think, that voiced avatars are usually annoying and require too much resources to make.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 15, 2018 23:21:54 GMT
I prefer having a voiced, but won't get upset if there's a silent main character.
What would be interesting is if they voice the main character and keep all the other characters silent. I would play the game once just to say I did.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 2:17:06 GMT
Greatly depends on the nature of the game. Thank God Skyrim is unvoiced and thank God Mass Effect is voiced.
In a cinematic, heavily story- and dialogue-driven game, with emotional drama etc., voice acting is necessary. Even more if you want meaningful romance. Imagine romance in ME or Witcher with unvoiced protagonists. It just wouldn't work. But in much more gameplay/player freedom-oriented games like Bethesda's, voice acting's problems outweigh the benefits.
As a fan of both Skyrim and Mass Effect, I was excited about Fallout 4 getting voiced dialogue. Because I loved creating characters in Skyrim, but was disappointed that in the game it just didn't matter because you almost never saw your character. In ME it mattered a lot, and in my naivety I hoped to get something similar in FO4. Turned out it didn't help much because character interaction is hardly its best asset, and the wonky facial animation didn't do any good for immersion.
Playing Skyrim, then Witcher 3, and now Fallout 4 really highlighted just how different Bethesda games are to Witcher games and that you can't so easily compare Skyrim and W3 and say which is better. Contrary to Skyrim, Witcher 3 definitely needs voice acting. Witcher 3 is very dialogue- and cutscene-heavy, Skyrim doesn't even have one single cutscene (the closest it gets is watching a scene from the past through an Elder Scroll). But comparing Skyrim with FO4 certainly highlights differences between voiced and unvoiced.
Problems I see with VA:
- loss of freedom of imagination. Unvoiced, I can just imagine how I say those lines, and the game won't disturb. With a voiced character, I may not like how the protagonist says something.
- this becomes even more awkward if you're mixing dialogue of different nature. In FO4, I say something humorous with a light-hearted voice, the next thing I say is something about my missing son with a shattered voice, the next line is humorous/light-hearted again. That just destroys immersion.
- if you don't like the voice of your protagonist (I don't like Geralt's), you're out of luck. It will annoy you through the entire game and you can't do anything about it.
- limiting character creation. In ME, I created some unique characters only to find that the voice didn't fit at all, making it weird. So I learned to think of the voice when creating an ME character, limiting my options. No such issue in Skyrim. It is an issue in FO4, because I can't make a super badass or something because it's just awkward in dialogue.
- limiting conversation options. In older RPGs, you often had 10 options of what to say. The less VA involved, the more you can do, because with text-only conversation, you can in principle make as much conversation as you want. Of course there are still limits if you don't make NPCs text-based too--which no bigger game will dare to do today.
- with this resource issue comes another: VA may become a huge problem if you can play as different races/species as in Skyrim. In ME or FO4, where you're always human, you "only" need one male and one female voice. In Skyrim, you'd have to record thousands of lines also with a male Orc voice, female Orc voice, male Argonian, female Argonian, again two for Khajiit and so on. I suspect this will be one of the greatest problems of the next Elder Scrolls game, and I'm not looking forward to whatever solution they'll find aside from going back to no VA (which is unlikely).
So in the end, there are many games that absolutely need voice acting, but there are also games where it does more harm than good.
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