dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,941 Likes: 17,668
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 9, 2018 19:36:41 GMT
Just for, I don't know, boredom's sake, I wondered how many the Reapers killed over the course of 20 cycles. (They also killed nearly all Leviathans alive at the time the Intelligence came into being, as well as whatever races were their thralls.) Now, I'm being conservative and basing it on the races the exist in the current cycle. REALLY conservative in that I'm assigning a mere ten billion per major race plus 17 million quarians (according to a source I found online) and I threw in that same number for geth and drell (which could be more or less but there are almost certainly much more than 10 billions salarians, asari and turians - counting hanar and volus in this mix. Here's the number I got: 1,601,020,000,000 (1.6 trillion). That's assuming they've only existed for 20 cycles and that the major races who've been around for centuries have limited themselves to a mere 10 billion (unlikely, though that one batarian colony "only" had 300,000). I don't know. I find that number unforgivable, especially keeping in mind that they had no intention of stopping. Now, this is just numbers, not even intentions, not even the fact that they justify their behavior, not even showing that there's no indication that they've stopped organic vs. synthetic war, not even counting that even if that type of war stopped that war would not stop...anyone have a reason to justify murder on this level? If we did it, with intent the way they did, we would be executed without a second thought. Why should they ever get a pass?
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Post by themikefest on Mar 9, 2018 19:52:19 GMT
The reapers have been around for about 20 000 cycles. Take your number 1.6 trillion over 20 cycles, and multiply that number by 1000. So about 1.6 quintillion
Either way, they need to be destroyed. I don't believe that synthetics would wipe out all organics as the thing says. If it were true, why didn't the geth wipe out the rest of the quarians and then go wipe out the other species in the galaxy?
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Post by sageoflife on Mar 9, 2018 20:14:06 GMT
The little glowing brat doesn't even know what evolution is. "Final evolution of life" my ass. I knew right then and there was blowing it up so the galaxy would be free from the leviathans' stupidity.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 10, 2018 13:51:28 GMT
The little glowing brat doesn't even know what evolution is. "Final evolution of life" my ass. I knew right then and there was blowing it up so the galaxy would be free from the leviathans' stupidity. Colloquialisms are new to you? Because saying you are so hungry you could eat a horse doesn't mean you will literally eat a horse. |
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Post by sageoflife on Mar 10, 2018 14:39:25 GMT
The little glowing brat doesn't even know what evolution is. "Final evolution of life" my ass. I knew right then and there was blowing it up so the galaxy would be free from the leviathans' stupidity. Colloquialisms are new to you? Because saying you are so hungry you could eat a horse doesn't mean you will literally eat a horse. I don't think simplistic AIs use colloquialisms. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 10, 2018 15:50:54 GMT
Colloquialisms are new to you? Because saying you are so hungry you could eat a horse doesn't mean you will literally eat a horse. I don't think simplistic AIs use colloquialisms. Irony as well. Catalyst has a better grasp of the complexity of race relation then most people that exist. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 10, 2018 16:15:50 GMT
So you say people shouldn’t kill billions or more and anyone who does should be killed immediately. So do you believe that any Shepard who picks Destroy should be executed as well? After all they commit genocide if they pick Destroy, killing billions of synthetics.
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Post by sageoflife on Mar 10, 2018 16:40:11 GMT
I don't think simplistic AIs use colloquialisms. Irony as well. Catalyst has a better grasp of the complexity of race relation then most people that exist. Yeah, kill 'em all before they might cause trouble is such a complex view. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 10, 2018 18:49:42 GMT
Irony as well. Catalyst has a better grasp of the complexity of race relation then most people that exist. Yeah, kill 'em all before they might cause trouble is such a complex view. It is actually when given correct context. Strip everything down to the bare bones and nothing makes sense. Kissing is nothing more then spitting in another person's mouth. A date with someone is just glorified prostitution. Being proud of you heritage or nation is just being a brain washed cultists. I could go on but I think my point is made. When you have to go that far and make it so simplified that even a 5 year old would say things are more complex then that you are only making yourself look like a fool. |
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Post by themikefest on Mar 10, 2018 18:55:25 GMT
So you say people shouldn’t kill billions or more and anyone who does should be killed immediately. So do you believe that any Shepard who picks Destroy should be executed as well? After all they commit genocide if they pick Destroy, killing billions of synthetics. Did Shepard commit genocide? What about the quarians? They did destroy the geth over Rannoch. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 10, 2018 18:56:37 GMT
So you say people shouldn’t kill billions or more and anyone who does should be killed immediately. So do you believe that any Shepard who picks Destroy should be executed as well? After all they commit genocide if they pick Destroy, killing billions of synthetics. Did Shepard commit genocide? What about the quarians? They did destroy the geth over Rannoch. So one murder excuses another? |
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Post by themikefest on Mar 10, 2018 19:04:57 GMT
What murder?
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Post by sageoflife on Mar 10, 2018 19:12:43 GMT
Yeah, kill 'em all before they might cause trouble is such a complex view. It is actually when given correct context. Strip everything down to the bare bones and nothing makes sense. Kissing is nothing more then spitting in another person's mouth. A date with someone is just glorified prostitution. Being proud of you heritage or nation is just being a brain washed cultists. I could go on but I think my point is made. When you have to go that far and make it so simplified that even a 5 year old would say things are more complex then that you are only making yourself look like a fool. Yeah, the personal attack made your lack of a point quite clear. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 10, 2018 19:39:22 GMT
It is actually when given correct context. Strip everything down to the bare bones and nothing makes sense. Kissing is nothing more then spitting in another person's mouth. A date with someone is just glorified prostitution. Being proud of you heritage or nation is just being a brain washed cultists. I could go on but I think my point is made. When you have to go that far and make it so simplified that even a 5 year old would say things are more complex then that you are only making yourself look like a fool. Yeah, the personal attack made your lack of a point quite clear. So you fail to address my point and focus on a perceived attack. Never mind you are pulling the equivalent of saying if you don't want to get shot by the police you should listen to them. Which ignores the numerous instances of people being shot by them while trying to obey them. Tell me why are you seemingly incapable of responding to me? |
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Post by sageoflife on Mar 10, 2018 19:44:03 GMT
Yeah, the personal attack made your lack of a point quite clear. So you fail to address my point and focus on a perceived attack. Never mind you are pulling the equivalent of saying if you don't want to get shot by the police you should listen to them. Which ignores the numerous instances of people being shot by them while trying to obey them. Tell me why are you seemingly incapable of responding to me? I don't see why I should respond to someone who has made it clear that they only want to pick a fight. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 10, 2018 19:44:24 GMT
In terms of Nazis how many can I kill in response to the Holocaust and how many innocent people can I kill by accident before I am no longer justified in my actions? Trying for a moral equivalence while pushing moral absolutism is inconsistent to say the least. |
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Post by themikefest on Mar 10, 2018 20:04:56 GMT
Your comparison didn't answer the question. Who was murdered?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 10, 2018 21:05:56 GMT
So you fail to address my point and focus on a perceived attack. Never mind you are pulling the equivalent of saying if you don't want to get shot by the police you should listen to them. Which ignores the numerous instances of people being shot by them while trying to obey them. Tell me why are you seemingly incapable of responding to me? I don't see why I should respond to someone who has made it clear that they only want to pick a fight. My perspective this is an attempt to deflect the discussion because you know your reasons have no value and will be taken apart easily. If the perceived personal attack is so important then by all means tell me I have my head so far up my own retum the only difference between sitting down and a head stand is if I am clothed. Your attacks or opinions if me are about as meaningless as someone pouring a teaspoon the of salt into a lake to make it salt water. If you take offense to someone questioning your reasoning then in the future do not try to use the logic of racism can't exist in the USA because they elected a black president twice. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 10, 2018 21:07:18 GMT
Your comparison didn't answer the question. Who was murdered? Geth, Quarians and Reapers. Krogan aren't directly wiped out just kind of left to wither and die so can't count them. |
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Post by themikefest on Mar 10, 2018 21:23:21 GMT
Ok. So what you want is for everyone to choose peace when dealing with the geth and quarians, and then choose the green.
I asked who, not what. So the geth and reapers are not murdered, as you call it. With the quarians, there is no murder especially since Shepard is not pulling the trigger. Sure Shepard can choose whatever side, but that doesn't make it murder.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,941 Likes: 17,668
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Biotic Booty
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 10, 2018 22:26:13 GMT
Ok. So what you want is for everyone to choose peace when dealing with the geth and quarians, and then choose the green. I asked who, not what. So the geth and reapers are not murdered, as you call it. With the quarians, there is no murder especially since Shepard is not pulling the trigger. Sure Shepard can choose whatever side, but that doesn't make it murder. In fact, this is true. Shepard chooses from options given by the Catalyst. It is the Catalyst who has actually pulled the trigger - because it chooses to do so. It could also choose to go the fuck home to dark space and never bother us again. Yet, it's somehow all our fault. The reality is that the goal of the Catalyst was to find a way to keep the slaves from getting wiped out. That is its actual, specific goal. Any ending that gives the Catalyst what it wants is actually one in which it achieves its goal - meaning, that the Leviathan will return and enslave the galaxy once more. So, in a sense, Saren was right. Be "useful" (aka, a slave) or be dead. This is abundantly clear in the game. That is why the Leviathan had never intervened, because the Catalyst hadn't achieved its goal to find a way to wipe keep the slaves alive. |
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,941 Likes: 17,668
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 10, 2018 22:39:11 GMT
So you say people shouldn’t kill billions or more and anyone who does should be killed immediately. So do you believe that any Shepard who picks Destroy should be executed as well? After all they commit genocide if they pick Destroy, killing billions of synthetics. What I say is that we should remove the things from existence that murder every advanced species in the galaxy in 50,000 year intervals. Yes, it causes deaths but that level of killing would thereafter cease. Or we could just keep on letting them do it and absolve ourselves of blame by saying "but I would have had to kill them to stop them from continuing their mass murder". Also, Shepard was fully willing to die to stop them. In fact, s/he thought that was what was going to happen. Tbh, I regret that the geth are die as a result...though, if we're really being honest, if the game hadn't decided they weren't "real enough" and needed Reaper upgrades to "count", it wouldn't be an issue since it mainly destroyed Reaper tech. For the record, there's a great fanfic I read wherein Shepard survives and suffers from PTSD as a result of the choices he made regarding the batarians, the geth and EDI. He felt, in the end, that the Reapers had to be removed permanently, but still regretted those others who also died. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 11, 2018 0:17:48 GMT
Ok. So what you want is for everyone to choose peace when dealing with the geth and quarians, and then choose the green. I asked who, not what. So the geth and reapers are not murdered, as you call it. With the quarians, there is no murder especially since Shepard is not pulling the trigger. Sure Shepard can choose whatever side, but that doesn't make it murder. You are side stepping around the original point. Why are you unable to address it? |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 11, 2018 0:19:22 GMT
Any ending that gives the Catalyst what it wants is actually one in which it achieves its goal - meaning, that the Leviathan will return and enslave the galaxy once more. So, in a sense, Saren was right. Be "useful" (aka, a slave) or be dead. This is abundantly clear in the game. That is why the Leviathan had never intervened, because the Catalyst hadn't achieved its goal to find a way to wipe keep the slaves alive.  |
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2018 0:31:46 GMT
You are side stepping around the original point. Why are you unable to address it? Sidestepping? No. You have a hard time accepting that someone doesn't agree with you. |
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