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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 9, 2018 15:04:55 GMT
What I am curious about in regards to Mass Effect is what direction any new title will take. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Mass (if and when it comes) Effect would end up as a "live service" game like Anthem, that is, if Anthem will end up a success. But aside from that, I'm curious to see where exactly in the timeline this supposed ME title would pick up things. Personally I have no real interest in Andromeda as it was handled in ME:A, and making a sequel for the original trilogy is somewhat questionable. (though I'd prefer it to a sequel for ME:A) Some other options would be: 1. Skipping ahead a hundred years or more, either with the original trilogy or Andromeda. 2. A reboot / re-imagining of the story, starting out before first contact. Maybe start out with better technology, so we'll still have access to omni-tools, biotics, and other toys. Good first contact stories - hostile or otherwise - always have potential. (though ME:A was extremely disappointing in how in handled these aspects, it was either handled off screen or was just terrible) Why do people think this would solve anything in regards to the OT? Synthesis makes any time jump, no matter how massive, utterly pointless, because everyone in the galaxy became Magical Green Glowing Cyborgs of Boringness, and the Reapers are part of the Galactic Community because all their war crimes no longer matter "Because Magic". Likewise Control poses a similar problem, The Reapers are still around, although could possibly be hand waved away in that situation if explained well enough. Never mind the fact that Refuse is now canon, and also makes a time jump impossible, as literally all of the ME races are dead as a door nail (aka no marketing value).
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 9, 2018 15:36:29 GMT
Why do people think this would solve anything in regards to the OT? Synthesis makes any time jump, no matter how massive, utterly pointless, because everyone in the galaxy became Magical Green Glowing Cyborgs of Boringness, and the Reapers are part of the Galactic Community because all their war crimes no longer matter "Because Magic". Likewise Control poses a similar problem, The Reapers are still around, although could possibly be hand waved away in that situation if explained well enough. Never mind the fact that Refuse is now canon, and also makes a time jump impossible, as literally all of the ME races are dead as a door nail (aka no marketing value). I don't disagree, it would take quite a bit to elegantly solve any of those dillemas, and even then it would probably be very difficult. Which is why ME3's ending is probably the dumbest way to end a trilogy I've ever seen. Even worse if they believed this was a setting they wanted to continue working on in the future after ME3. It forced this setting to become horribly more contrived with far too many restrictions placed upon it. To me, the only actual answer for the MW is to literally hit reset, and start over from ME2 and proceed from there, based on what ME1 gave you narratively speaking. Of course that is a 10000% impossibility. But otherwise, only a prequel is really possible, and Andromeda was so poorly executed I seriously question how willing they are to touch it again.
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Post by sil on Aug 9, 2018 16:15:02 GMT
Never mind the fact that Refuse is now canon All ME3 endings are canon, as we have not had a game, book or comic that establishes one ending above the others. The QEC's in the Milky Way appear to be destroyed... which isn't much of a surprise considering the Reapers were annihilating entire cities with one shot, in a war where they were conquering every major planet and colony, a war where billions were destroyed. Refuse is canon, and has been canon ever since it was introduced, same as Control, Synthesis and Destroy.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 9, 2018 16:28:15 GMT
Never mind the fact that Refuse is now canon All ME3 endings are canon, as we have not had a game, book or comic that establishes one ending above the others. The QEC's in the Milky Way appear to be destroyed... which isn't much of a surprise considering the Reapers were annihilating entire cities with one shot, in a war where they were conquering every major planet and colony, a war where billions were destroyed. Refuse is canon, and has been canon ever since it was introduced, same as Control, Synthesis and Destroy. Yes...that was exactly my point. I was explaining why Bioware made it as impossible as humanly possible (haha) to ever do anything with the MW going forward, because they decided to end the trilogy with the Deus Ex ending, making sure that no matter what, the galaxy is utterly screwed beyond repair. Which is one of the reasons why the way they ended the trilogy was just poorly thought out and horribly executed. It's the type of ending you write if you never plan to touch an IP again or ever make a game taking place at any point in the future. if they knew going into ME3 that this was an IP they wanted to work with going forward, then making the trilogy end that way was simply irresponsible. Of course I am sure a lot it can be chocked up to the game being horribly rushed, but in the end, I don't really see that as an excuse, as they could have done the more responsible thing for the sake of the Brand, and make just 1 ending, with your choices affecting the flavor of it. Would I enjoy that? not really, and I suspect most wouldn't either, but what it would do, is make debates like this completely non-existent, because then the franchise has a less contrived and less complicated future with which to build from in order to prevent the mistakes that led to that mess in the first place going forward.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 10, 2018 21:23:55 GMT
I don't see how the galaxy is actually screwed beyond repair. It's easy enough to write a playable post-Destroy or post-Control scenario. Continuing and incorporating all the choices is unworkable, sure, but that ship sailed after Priority: Tuchanka.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 10, 2018 22:51:05 GMT
I don't see how the galaxy is actually screwed beyond repair. It's easy enough to write a playable post-Destroy or post-Control scenario. Continuing and incorporating all the choices is unworkable, sure, but that ship sailed after Priority: Tuchanka. It's screwed, because as you said, it is impossible to incorporate all 3 of those choices, so unless they pick one and go with it, there is no way to resolve the problem. The Tuchanka problem I believe, can actually be solved by a large time jump so all the principle characters are long dead, leaving only the "was the genophage cured or not?" choice, which can be easily represented by more or less Krogan NPCs present in game, depending on your import and swapping dialogue relevant to that issue.
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Post by yan on Aug 11, 2018 0:21:50 GMT
I don't see how the galaxy is actually screwed beyond repair. It's easy enough to write a playable post-Destroy or post-Control scenario. Continuing and incorporating all the choices is unworkable, sure, but that ship sailed after Priority: Tuchanka. so unless they pick one and go with it And that is it. Why do you want something different? It would be the same as I want a Fallout New Vegas 2, but one where all 4 factions won the battle of the Hoover Dam.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 11, 2018 0:46:17 GMT
so unless they pick one and go with it And that is it. Why do you want something different? It would be the same as I want a Fallout New Vegas 2, but one where all 4 factions won the battle of the Hoover Dam. I don't want something different. But it should be obvious why simply picking one and going with it is impossible. The PR shit storm that would arise by invalidating the other options, thus rendering MANY players choices literally invalid, likely leading to lost customers. Really this should be obvious.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 11, 2018 2:59:30 GMT
Which is why ME3's ending is probably the dumbest way to end a trilogy I've ever seen. Not if your plan is to put the trilogy to rest.
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Post by ahglock on Aug 11, 2018 3:35:28 GMT
Which is why ME3's ending is probably the dumbest way to end a trilogy I've ever seen. Not if your plan is to put the trilogy to rest. The ending was pretty terrible even after the extended cut. It always felt like a petulant child breaking toys kind of ending. Which yeah I guess puts a trilogy to rest.
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Post by yan on Aug 11, 2018 4:03:06 GMT
And that is it. Why do you want something different? It would be the same as I want a Fallout New Vegas 2, but one where all 4 factions won the battle of the Hoover Dam. I don't want something different. But it should be obvious why simply picking one and going with it is impossible. The PR shit storm that would arise by invalidating the other options, thus rendering MANY players choices literally invalid, likely leading to lost customers. Really this should be obvious. I only speak for myself, and having a new game on Milk Way is much more important than my choices. Especially since I've done almost all of them. (I never shot Mordin, of course. This is a terrible thing to do.)
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Post by ahglock on Aug 11, 2018 21:26:53 GMT
I don't want something different. But it should be obvious why simply picking one and going with it is impossible. The PR shit storm that would arise by invalidating the other options, thus rendering MANY players choices literally invalid, likely leading to lost customers. Really this should be obvious. I only speak for myself, and having a new game on Milk Way is much more important than my choices. Especially since I've done almost all of them. (I never shot Mordin, of course. This is a terrible thing to do.) I never cure the genophage which is a terrible thing to do, so I either shoot Wrex n ME1(i do a lot) or I shoot mordin.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 11, 2018 23:48:44 GMT
I never cure the genophage which is a terrible thing to do, so I either shoot Wrex n ME1(i do a lot) or I shoot mordin. Or don't recruit Wrex in ME1 allowing Mordin to survive in ME3
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 11, 2018 23:50:10 GMT
And that is it. Why do you want something different? It would be the same as I want a Fallout New Vegas 2, but one where all 4 factions won the battle of the Hoover Dam. I don't want something different. But it should be obvious why simply picking one and going with it is impossible. The PR shit storm that would arise by invalidating the other options, thus rendering MANY players choices literally invalid, likely leading to lost customers. Really this should be obvious. How are the other endings invalidated? Any particular universe only has one Shepard who made one set of choices. A canon world-state for ME5 wouldn't invalidate any of my Shepards any more than they invalidate each other. Not saying that people wouldn't react like this; just that doing so would be foolish.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 11, 2018 23:59:44 GMT
I don't want something different. But it should be obvious why simply picking one and going with it is impossible. The PR shit storm that would arise by invalidating the other options, thus rendering MANY players choices literally invalid, likely leading to lost customers. Really this should be obvious. How are the other endings invalidated? Any particular universe only has one Shepard who made one set of choices. A canon world-state for ME5 wouldn't invalidate any of my Shepards any more than they invalidate each other. Not saying that people wouldn't react like this; just that doing so would be foolish. Regardless, I think we are all aware how most gamers react when they feel "choices" are being invalidated. The other 2 options are invalidated because they would no longer be viewed as "official possibilities" because there is now only one "correct" choice, the one Bioware chose to go with going forward. Bioware is not like CDPR, where they give you major, setting altering choices and then just totally ignore 100% of them in the next game because their going to do their own thing regardless. Bioware typically only does things like that in regards to characters, like Lelianna, Anders and such.
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Post by Serza on Aug 12, 2018 9:47:59 GMT
He's right. CDPR shits on your choices, and you love them for it.
But how BioWare dare only make mentions of your previous choices!
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 12, 2018 10:54:55 GMT
He's right. CDPR shits on your choices, and you love them for it. But how BioWare dare only make mentions of your previous choices! To be fair, I know some RPG players who don't give a rip about Making Choices, or having an impact on the setting. They just want good characters and story-telling. Which CDPR typically gives you. But alas, most RPG players DO care about choices, and choices having an effect and impact. Therefor it is impossible for Bioware to solve the Milky Way problem that they themselves created.
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 12, 2018 11:32:06 GMT
Therefor it is impossible for Bioware to solve the Milky Way problem that they themselves created. Nope. If they pick Destroy/Cure Genophage/Mordin lives that would keep most people happy. I made different choices on some playthroughs but I understand that to get another MW game sacrifices have to be made. Some will whine but as long as they deliver a good game nobody will care.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 12, 2018 12:37:27 GMT
Therefor it is impossible for Bioware to solve the Milky Way problem that they themselves created. Nope. If they pick Destroy/Cure Genophage/Mordin lives that would keep most people happy. I made different choices on some playthroughs but I understand that to get another MW game sacrifices have to be made. Some will whine but as long as they deliver a good game nobody will care. Sure, if you think about things logically that is of course obvious. However, be honest with yourself. As much heat and venom Bioware gets ALREADY, do you really think it is smart for them to risk losing more customers and more bad PR when they announce "Hey guys! just so you know, 2/3rds of ME3s ending is totally retconned now, we would like to apologize to all the people who swear by those ending choices we have now removed! k thx bye!" I mean, it is extremely possible the internet would implode with the level of bile and hatred they would get for "Not respecting the choices of players and trivializing it". Never mind how Bioware themselves, have to stick to their guns literally FOREVER after the whole ME3 ending fiasco. They outright said "Our ending is great, the fans are just dumb and don't understand it!" By doing what you suggest, picking one and going forward with it, they are basically admitting a mistake, or failure. Which is not something Bioware ever really does, nor does most developers for that matter. They would be no longer sticking to the "Artistic Integrity" of their ending, as they so proudly proclaimed all those years ago. Their ending, and their public response to the fans outrage over said ending, and their own pride in their work, AND the climate gaming culture has regarding them in this new modern era, basically puts Bioware in a No Win Scenario with the Milky Way going forward.
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Post by ahglock on Aug 12, 2018 17:34:58 GMT
Therefor it is impossible for Bioware to solve the Milky Way problem that they themselves created. Nope. If they pick Destroy/Cure Genophage/Mordin lives that would keep most people happy. I made different choices on some playthroughs but I understand that to get another MW game sacrifices have to be made. Some will whine but as long as they deliver a good game nobody will care.
If you cure the genophage Mordin does not live.
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 13, 2018 0:11:50 GMT
Nope. If they pick Destroy/Cure Genophage/Mordin lives that would keep most people happy. I made different choices on some playthroughs but I understand that to get another MW game sacrifices have to be made. Some will whine but as long as they deliver a good game nobody will care.
If you cure the genophage Mordin does not live.
Sorry, I meant you don't shoot him. He still dies a heroic death rather than being shot in the back.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 13, 2018 5:22:39 GMT
I don't want something different. But it should be obvious why simply picking one and going with it is impossible. The PR shit storm that would arise by invalidating the other options, thus rendering MANY players choices literally invalid, likely leading to lost customers. Really this should be obvious. How are the other endings invalidated? Any particular universe only has one Shepard who made one set of choices. A canon world-state for ME5 wouldn't invalidate any of my Shepards any more than they invalidate each other. Not saying that people wouldn't react like this; just that doing so would be foolish. A canon world state might work for more or less minor things. I don't think it would work for vast differences like: Shepard is alive or dead, Shepard is a Reaper, the Reapers are destroyed, everyone is green, or the cycle continues. The differences are too great and I can't see BioWare creating 4-5 games to satisfy everyone.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 13, 2018 10:09:22 GMT
What I am curious about in regards to Mass Effect is what direction any new title will take. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Mass (if and when it comes) Effect would end up as a "live service" game like Anthem, that is, if Anthem will end up a success. But aside from that, I'm curious to see where exactly in the timeline this supposed ME title would pick up things. Personally I have no real interest in Andromeda as it was handled in ME:A, and making a sequel for the original trilogy is somewhat questionable. (though I'd prefer it to a sequel for ME:A) Some other options would be: 1. Skipping ahead a hundred years or more, either with the original trilogy or Andromeda. 2. A reboot / re-imagining of the story, starting out before first contact. Maybe start out with better technology, so we'll still have access to omni-tools, biotics, and other toys. Good first contact stories - hostile or otherwise - always have potential. (though ME:A was extremely disappointing in how in handled these aspects, it was either handled off screen or was just terrible) Why do people think this would solve anything in regards to the OT? Synthesis makes any time jump, no matter how massive, utterly pointless, because everyone in the galaxy became Magical Green Glowing Cyborgs of Boringness, and the Reapers are part of the Galactic Community because all their war crimes no longer matter "Because Magic". Likewise Control poses a similar problem, The Reapers are still around, although could possibly be hand waved away in that situation if explained well enough. Never mind the fact that Refuse is now canon, and also makes a time jump impossible, as literally all of the ME races are dead as a door nail (aka no marketing value). That's why they need to reboot the trilogy, and rewrite the ending to have a chronological order that connects to ME3. If they were smart they should go for it.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 13, 2018 10:18:57 GMT
Which is why ME3's ending is probably the dumbest way to end a trilogy I've ever seen. Not if your plan is to put the trilogy to rest. But how they're going to make a sequel out of the disaster of ME3 ending?
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 13, 2018 10:29:56 GMT
Nope. If they pick Destroy/Cure Genophage/Mordin lives that would keep most people happy. I made different choices on some playthroughs but I understand that to get another MW game sacrifices have to be made. Some will whine but as long as they deliver a good game nobody will care. Sure, if you think about things logically that is of course obvious. However, be honest with yourself. As much heat and venom Bioware gets ALREADY, do you really think it is smart for them to risk losing more customers and more bad PR when they announce "Hey guys! just so you know, 2/3rds of ME3s ending is totally retconned now, we would like to apologize to all the people who swear by those ending choices we have now removed! k thx bye!" I mean, it is extremely possible the internet would implode with the level of bile and hatred they would get for "Not respecting the choices of players and trivializing it". Never mind how Bioware themselves, have to stick to their guns literally FOREVER after the whole ME3 ending fiasco. They outright said "Our ending is great, the fans are just dumb and don't understand it!" By doing what you suggest, picking one and going forward with it, they are basically admitting a mistake, or failure. Which is not something Bioware ever really does, nor does most developers for that matter. They would be no longer sticking to the "Artistic Integrity" of their ending, as they so proudly proclaimed all those years ago. Their ending, and their public response to the fans outrage over said ending, and their own pride in their work, AND the climate gaming culture has regarding them in this new modern era, basically puts Bioware in a No Win Scenario with the Milky Way going forward. I'm start to wonder why they're making games in the first place. Why does the company even exists if they're going to keep on being irresponsible and incompetent?
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