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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 7, 2018 23:21:02 GMT
Mass Effect multiplayer still has active lobbies without even an 'elder game';...
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Post by akots on Jul 7, 2018 23:21:22 GMT
There will be the Elder game that won't need any weekly resets. Better they focus on that. In the current EA system, this is highly unlikely. They need (well, more like want, and not really they but the investors and whatever stock market policies they have) continuous income. This requires long-term retention of paying player base. They need either good and functional ladder system or PvP or both. Something similar to ME3MP ladder is a bit outdated and players don't really get that unless it is well balanced. I don't think ME3MP ladder system was perfect but it was addictive while Andromeda completely failed in this department, and I'm not even talking about DAIMP as it was extremely lame all around. And even then in DAIMP, Drasca and Snake managed to take it out on each other somehow.
Mass Effect multiplayer still has active lobbies without even an 'elder game';... ME3MP is fairly competitive. It has well designed scoring system and CP/N7 ladders. Scoring in Andromeda is broken and DAIMP did not even have anything meaningful. A lot of people who still play actively do either farm CPs or promote. For no particular purpose, I presume. And thunderdome bs is priceless. I myself watched Red John's destroyer failure 3 or 4 times, laughing my ass off every single time. And the spectre or whatever it were, with groups and trials? Now, that was quite a good time, very entertaining stuff.
Even if people don't really partake, you would still read the forum and watch the tube, wouldn't you? It all adds up. Look at those "Fastest platinum solo" and "Easiest way to beat everything with mah destroyer" etc etc. They have quite a few views. Bet that maybe half of those who watched actually tried themselves.
It has to be healthy though, not disruptive. But competition in one form or another is in human nature, can't argue with that. Having no PvP is OK for those who can settle on something like, who can solve this chess puzzle faster or some similar thing. Well, instead you can just fire up a game and beat each other up. There is nothing wrong with that if done well.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by correctamundo on Jul 7, 2018 23:48:11 GMT
There will be the Elder game that won't need any weekly resets. Better they focus on that. In the current EA system, this is highly unlikely. They need (well, more like want, and not really they but the investors and whatever stock market policies they have) continuous income. This requires long-term retention of paying player base. They need either good and functional ladder system or PvP or both. Something similar to ME3MP ladder is a bit outdated and players don't really get that unless it is well balanced. I don't think ME3MP ladder system was perfect but it was addictive while Andromeda completely failed in this department, and I'm not even talking about DAIMP as it was extremely lame all around.
It has to be healthy though, not disruptive. But competition in one form or another is in human nature, can't argue with that. Having no PvP is OK for those who can settle on something like, who can solve this chess puzzle faster or some similar thing. Well, instead you can just fire up a game and beat each other up. There is nothing wrong with that if done well.
Highly unlikely? You haven't paid attention to Biowares message then. Just as there is nothing with no PvP if done well.
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Post by akots on Jul 8, 2018 2:33:10 GMT
Highly unlikely? You haven't paid attention to Biowares message then. Just as there is nothing with no PvP if done well. Bioware messages are quite meaningless in most cases. Those preceding Meda release were straightforward deceiving short of pure lies. Just look at the Anthem gameplay demo. There are numbers popping up all over the place. Do more damage, get more loot, and so on. There is no word about lore or saving the suffering world from eternal evil or anything like that. They tell one thing and put another on display. So far, casual dialogue shown is more on par with Meda and does not sound appealing at all meaning writing might be not the main selling point. Now, about done well, it might be a good idea to have some trust. Meda MP turned out to be awful but fairly balanced in its final iteration. They can do if they put coin and effort there. But I'll settle for a working ladder and some challenge system and won't be truly disappointed if there is no PvP. It's a fair chance while Billy is not there messing things up.
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Post by Kroitz on Jul 8, 2018 6:36:18 GMT
That's right, PvP isn't required to wait until weekly IDs are reset.
Could just give players an option to do something they might enjoy in the meantime.
There will be the Elder game that won't need any weekly resets. Better they focus on that.
What kind of content do you equate with the term elder game in Anthem's case?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by correctamundo on Jul 8, 2018 10:33:36 GMT
There will be the Elder game that won't need any weekly resets. Better they focus on that.
What kind of content do you equate with the term elder game in Anthem's case?
I don't really equate it with anything since we don't know what it is yet. But if they are going to throw their apples in an umpteeenth number of baskets to cover all possible variants of endgame we will most likely end up with half measures all around. And PvP will break PvE. So better they focus on their vision of this Elder game and make it right. So far all we know is that they like Greater rift pushing in D3. And adventure mode in D3 is great fun.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 9, 2018 8:47:01 GMT
Yet The Divison has a separate zone (which I thankfully can avoid). Thankfully, yes, one can go straight to it and skip everything around. That type of separation is always a good idea.
If Anthem is aiming to get more than a year under its belt with some handy participation, it is got to come sooner or later in some form or another. Otherwise, it'll share the fate with other recent not so successful titles. PvP gives longevity. It does accommodate for some specific groups of players which is not necessarily a bad thing always. Depends on how it works.
PvP doesn't give "longevity". A good and fun experience does. There's loads of games where the PvP killed off the better part of the game just for the sake of including a PvP mode that barely anyone played in the end.
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Post by rikimaru on Jul 9, 2018 18:50:20 GMT
i say no, love the way how the game is. I think it would require alot of balancing out especially if anyone is use the Colossus with it's nuke special
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Post by TheAllStarCynic on Jul 9, 2018 21:58:33 GMT
It's not that I don't want pvp because somewhere down the line it would be nice. Pvp breeds toxicity but it's also I nice release when you and your squad are struggling in game with something. Just dip in for a few games and then face the challenge once again.
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Post by akots on Jul 9, 2018 22:40:32 GMT
PvP doesn't give "longevity". A good and fun experience does. There's loads of games where the PvP killed off the better part of the game just for the sake of including a PvP mode that barely anyone played in the end. I look at it a bit differently. Hammering down on the AI opponents gets a bit silly unless they are really done well and there is a purpose. AI is getting better and better and unless specifically tuned down a few notches to give humans some chance, well, there is no chance. Creating artificial difficulties also transforms enemies into damage sinks like higher difficulties in DAI and Meda. ME3 does not suffer too much from this due to clever game design. So, there must be some beatable challenge. Now, if you take chess, yes, you can probably play on your phone against AI but I bet you have to set some difficulty level by the bottom. I can still take on some 2200 rated comp but anything over 2400 demolishes me and I'm not too bad of a player on par with master and candidate levels on lichess and chess 24. So, IDK how much satisfaction one can get knowing that AI is tweaked to specifically permit humans to win. Hence, we all do come to PvP in the end and the further down the road it goes, the more these things get in the way of normal way of life and games as people are used to for the past 20 years. It is a general social problem and it'd be nice to have a niche to avoid it. Which again, narrows down to PvP. And looks like Anthem is a complex game with advanced verticality and other issues complicating things. Knowing how BW approaches these, I'm quite sure they want to create ultimate experience which means AI will be picking you up from the other end of the map before you can see them. Unless specifically tweaked for some handicap. I'm not sure a lot of people would enjoy that. Or there is a choice of dull bullet sinks that can do nothing but spit in your general direction every couple of minutes. So, to put it short, I expect a lot of difficulty spikes on higher levels and frustrating mechanics as well. Compared to that, PvP would be a sort of vasistas into easy mode. Less frustration, more bragging rights. Dive there for a short skirmish, go back to battling frustrating AI. Would be nice. Some toxicity is expected and might be entertaining. And finally, I'm curious how Bioware can handle this. As I said, I'm sure they will do a good job if they spend some coin and time.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 10, 2018 6:54:45 GMT
If there is anything PVP, I would like PVP races, where you compete against another 4-man team in real life. And where, if you take dertain actions, the other team is delayed or it gets more difficult, something like that.
Like Team Hammerhead vs Team Mako.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 10, 2018 8:49:27 GMT
PvP doesn't give "longevity". A good and fun experience does. There's loads of games where the PvP killed off the better part of the game just for the sake of including a PvP mode that barely anyone played in the end. I look at it a bit differently. Hammering down on the AI opponents gets a bit silly unless they are really done well and there is a purpose. AI is getting better and better and unless specifically tuned down a few notches to give humans some chance, well, there is no chance. Creating artificial difficulties also transforms enemies into damage sinks like higher difficulties in DAI and Meda. ME3 does not suffer too much from this due to clever game design. So, there must be some beatable challenge. Now, if you take chess, yes, you can probably play on your phone against AI but I bet you have to set some difficulty level by the bottom. I can still take on some 2200 rated comp but anything over 2400 demolishes me and I'm not too bad of a player on par with master and candidate levels on lichess and chess 24. So, IDK how much satisfaction one can get knowing that AI is tweaked to specifically permit humans to win. Hence, we all do come to PvP in the end and the further down the road it goes, the more these things get in the way of normal way of life and games as people are used to for the past 20 years. It is a general social problem and it'd be nice to have a niche to avoid it. Which again, narrows down to PvP. And looks like Anthem is a complex game with advanced verticality and other issues complicating things. Knowing how BW approaches these, I'm quite sure they want to create ultimate experience which means AI will be picking you up from the other end of the map before you can see them. Unless specifically tweaked for some handicap. I'm not sure a lot of people would enjoy that. Or there is a choice of dull bullet sinks that can do nothing but spit in your general direction every couple of minutes. So, to put it short, I expect a lot of difficulty spikes on higher levels and frustrating mechanics as well. Compared to that, PvP would be a sort of vasistas into easy mode. Less frustration, more bragging rights. Dive there for a short skirmish, go back to battling frustrating AI. Would be nice. Some toxicity is expected and might be entertaining. And finally, I'm curious how Bioware can handle this. As I said, I'm sure they will do a good job if they spend some coin and time. There is no question whether PvP or PvE is better from me. It's just that they don't go well together in one game and you're generally better off with a dedicated game to either instead of half-assed two-in-one.
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Post by akots on Jul 10, 2018 16:18:47 GMT
There is no question whether PvP or PvE is better from me. It's just that they don't go well together in one game and you're generally better off with a dedicated game to either instead of half-assed two-in-one. It is an issue of trust. As Bioware have not previously tried anything serious on the PvP side, they might as well give it a try. One cannot simply say it will fail and will be half-arsed as there is nothing out there that suggests Bioware cannot do it. Their recent hectic Meda multiplayer turned out to be rather awful but pretty well balanced overall. So, they can balance things if they want. Lack of Billy's "visions" instills some serious hope. Also, planned dedicated servers clearly point in this direction. Having dedicated servers without PvP is a huge waste IMHO. Reference to other failed publishers/developers is simply inappropriate IMO as well as various types of approximations.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 10, 2018 17:49:00 GMT
There is no question whether PvP or PvE is better from me. It's just that they don't go well together in one game and you're generally better off with a dedicated game to either instead of half-assed two-in-one. It is an issue of trust. As Bioware have not previously tried anything serious on the PvP side, they might as well give it a try. One cannot simply say it will fail and will be half-arsed as there is nothing out there that suggests Bioware cannot do it. Their recent hectic Meda multiplayer turned out to be rather awful but pretty well balanced overall. So, they can balance things if they want. Lack of Billy's "visions" instills some serious hope. Also, planned dedicated servers clearly point in this direction. Having dedicated servers without PvP is a huge waste IMHO. Reference to other failed publishers/developers is simply inappropriate IMO as well as various types of approximations. I'd rather give Turtlerock another shot for a mixed PvP/PvE game than Bioware. Without experience it's more likely that PvP doesn't fly. Also: Bioware games don't really attract the PvP players in general.
Dedicated servers are the logical consequence of one of the biggest problems with BW's multiplayer and that was crappy connectivity - a detriment for all MP gameplay - whether PvP or PvE.
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Post by azarhal on Jul 10, 2018 18:32:52 GMT
There is no question whether PvP or PvE is better from me. It's just that they don't go well together in one game and you're generally better off with a dedicated game to either instead of half-assed two-in-one. It is an issue of trust. As Bioware have not previously tried anything serious on the PvP side, they might as well give it a try. not tried anything serious? never gave it a try? BioWare gave a try to PvP with SWTOR since late 2011. It has a dedicated PvP team with "open world", warzones (battlegrounds), huttball and galactic startfighters PvP mode. It was a huge feature at launch with the Republic vs Imperial theme and it got lots of changes, updates and events over the last 6.5 years. The game gets new PvP content every year and it has PvP exclusive rewards. Next patch, end of july, is PvP focused as well.
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Post by akots on Jul 10, 2018 19:03:49 GMT
BioWare gave a try to PvP with SWTOR since late 2011 Now, you are not being serious here.
I'd rather give Turtlerock another shot for a mixed PvP/PvE game than Bioware.
There is nothing wrong with Warframe and its PvP. You can add it to the list on part with Turtle Rock. Both are OK IMHO, and a huge possible competition, especially Warframe considering its longevity and popularity. I have not tried myself but Crashsuit is out there day or night battling things out.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 10, 2018 20:00:31 GMT
BioWare gave a try to PvP with SWTOR since late 2011 Now, you are not being serious here.
I'd rather give Turtlerock another shot for a mixed PvP/PvE game than Bioware.
There is nothing wrong with Warframe and its PvP. You can add it to the list on part with Turtle Rock. Both are OK IMHO, and a huge possible competition, especially Warframe considering its longevity and popularity. I have not tried myself but Crashsuit is out there day or night battling things out.
Ye, there isn't anything wrong with Warframe PvP. At least I haven't spotted anything. Except it's barely played.
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Post by tatann on Jul 11, 2018 11:04:04 GMT
Ye, there isn't anything wrong with Warframe. There, I fixed it for you ;-) Sorry, I just got hyped by the Tennocon reveals (space pew pew)
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Post by spacev3gan on Jul 15, 2018 0:44:52 GMT
I frankly don't see it happening. PVP demands a ton of balancing, an above-average netcoding, effective anti-cheating measures and fairly large (to Bioware standards) and aesthetically varied map design - none of which Bioware is known for.
Now one may argue that Bioware is not known for making bro-shooters either, and they are going that way. But the thing is that they are already committed to doing that. Committing themselves to having a decent PVP component might stress their developers way too far. Therefore I believe they will just stick with PVE.
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Post by biggydx on Jul 15, 2018 16:51:17 GMT
I believe Mark Darrah said there will be scoring systems in place for activities like Stronghold's.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jul 22, 2018 14:55:19 GMT
I can't help but feel like BioWare's history with PvE balancing makes it unlikely that they'd handle their first attempt at simultaneously balancing for PvP well. O.o
I guess we'd call me "Indifferent, with low expectations."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2018 19:21:12 GMT
God, no. SW:TOR's class balancing is a mess due to the fact you've got PvE and PvP in the same game. We can do without that in Anthem thank you very much.
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Post by rikimaru on Jul 31, 2018 20:46:23 GMT
still say no, i personally think PvP will kill this game. Alot goes into making PvP, i think the Devs should just focus there talents on end game, possible new javelins, and anything to keep players.
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